It Pegged the Needle on My "BS Meter". Now, I'm A Believer. Ever Happen to You?

VERY first time I plugged a tube buffer into a Solid State integrated amplifier..Up until that point I had only read about imaging,sound staging,tonal color, yada yada etc..etc...
OMFG,it was ABSOLUTELY & UNEQUIVOCALY the single greatest epiphany of my entire life!!!
Down the rabbit hole it lead me,first to the dark world of tube rolling,on to Class A/B,Push Pull tube amplification,farther on to Class A,Push Pull tubes,then deeper & deeper into Single Ended,Class A tubes,a slight divination into Class A,Push Pull Solid State & finally crashing through the barrier of merely good to the divine with pure Class A,Single Ended Solid State,where Nirvana exists!!!

I don't recall the "Sound Rings" but did experiment with the PWB Rainbow Foil.

After placing it on a few CD's with mixed results (some good) I ended up placing 3 squares of the foil on a few CD Stat-Mats (a commercial CD add on mat that did offer a slight improvement in SQ on many discs).

I gave one away and lost the other years ago (ended up in a book to be flattened and got lost in the shuffle of the thousands and thousands of books we own).

DeKay

I still have CD's with the monster CD rings glued to them. Yes, they were effective, but not as good as the thin black stretch-on reference bands that were made by a different company I think.

The Philips CD clamp in my Jay's Audio CDT3 MK3 probably has enough mass already to achieve a "flywheel effect."

I think that one of the best ideas was the Pioneer rigid clamping system which actually eliminated the need for these accessories. 

I had a PD65 Pioneer.   Cool player.  Used it as a transport and regrettably sold it 

I also had a Pioneer PD65.  I used it for 8 years and stupidly sold it.  When I bought it, my brother worked for Pioneer and I got 50% off the retail price.  It was an amazing sounding player with the Legato Link DAC.

Painting the clear inner plastic and outer edges of a CD disk to control unwanted laser light reflection back onto the laser pickup. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to directly compare two of the same CD’s treated vs untreated.

I had a PD65 for years and loved it, then I found a Pioneer PD S95 transport that was originally $3500. I bought it from a doctor for $750 and have been happy ever since.

@waytoomuchstuff  I don't have experience or any input to your discussion. But I will say this; you are an excellent writer, for sure. You have a great command of words, an invisible sense of intelligence that comes off as purely inquisitive and innocent while describing an experience and an observation that is totally worthy and demeaning of no one. I wish I could write like that. Thanks for your positive contribution to this site.

@freediver "finally crashing through the barrier of merely good to the divine with pure Class A,Single Ended Solid State, where Nirvana exists!!!"
With what specific components? Because I'm just now discovering that pure class A amp sounds lousy with tube pre. 

@judsauce ....."Experience not required; this is where you might find some."

What that may entail....? 🤷‍♂️ *L*

@waytoomuchstuff ....Yeah, it's a b*tch....it's that you left slip from ones' hands that begs to stick around....but didn't.....

"...and pleease.....how do you Really Feel about it....."

...not a shrink, but I can look and act like one.....;)...

My first up sampling DAC, by PS Audio.  I bought it for other reasons, but when I used the up sampling setting (which as described sounded like pure snake oil-how can creating digits out of thin air work?) it just amazed me.  Previously acceptable recordings now sounded terrific, with a sound stage, space between the instruments, some slight concert hall echoes.  And this was not expectation bias, because I anticipated zilch.

@freediver you still using a tube buffer?  If so, open to recommendations.  Using a Accuphase integrated, happy but open to ….

thx

@hickamore"With what specific components?"
I started out dipping a toe with a little Chinese Sugden A21(original)clone from Douk Audio that cost $200.00 & a Class A DAC/Headphone/Pre Amp from Burson Audio..
When I was in a position financially I jumped all the way in with a Sugden Class A Power Amplifier(MusicMaster)& a Class A,Non Oversampling Ladder DAC/Headphone/PreAmp from Audio GD(R28 NOS)....
@​​​​​​gemoody:"you still using a tube buffer?"..
Sorry,no..As I stated,I moved from the buffer to all tubes amps,then to Class A Solid State so one wasn’t needed..

A cheap tube buffer I tried years ago amazed me at how recordings began to  sound  alive and lose the synthetic overlay.I was hooked.The vocals especially were to die for on my "starter system".

@judsauce

That just might be the kindest thing anyone has ever said to me. Thank you. My daily search for intelligent life on this planet often begins on this forum. I am rarely disappointed. Just glad my comments make it thought the filters and land somewhere close to the intended target now and then.

@roxy54

It wasn’t long ago that I (re)discovered a forgotten CD with the CD Sound Ring still (somewhat) attached. Back in the day, we found out the hard way that these were not designed for front, slot-loaded CD players. Those players were effective "CD Sound Ring Removal Devices." A mild inconvenience with a home unit with 7 machine screws holding the top cover on to get to the wadded up, sticky Sound Ring. When the player is part of.the factory system in a Lincoln Town Car, disassembling the dash to get to the head unit, was a tad more than a "mind inconvenience".

Yes, there have been many more effective products/devices since the CD Sound Rings.

I recently bought some of that paint that is purported to be the blackest paint in the world. To test it, I painted an older cd that had some scratches on it, put in into the player and not only were the scratches gone, it was easily, and 100% objectively, the quietest cd I've ever played. 

In the late ‘70’s I was working for Water Street Stereo, in Santa Cruz, CA.   I’d been out on vacation and when I came back we had in a spool of speaker wire from a company named Monster Cable.   My colleagues were raving about it.   I cried BS.   How could wire make any difference.   Well, it took me all of about 30 seconds of critical listening and I was floored at the difference.   I had to eat some crow on that one.

Years later, I had a similar experience with power cables.

Then someone said fuses.   I’m still not sure about the fuses, but speaker wire, interconnects, and power cables - I can clearly hear the difference and the difference matters to me.

@judsauce 

But I will say this; you are an excellent writer, for sure.

+1

@noodlyarm  Here's the Monster Cable trick: they supplied a trick speaker cable A/B switch with 20 feet of cable for each gauge. The 18 Ga zipcord all neatly coiled up and an equal length of Monster Cable, which, being heavier gauge, resisted coiling up so neatly. On testing, the zipcord sounded dull by comparison. Why? That neat coil of zipcord formed a serial inductor - a low pass 6dB/Octave filter and at about 20 ft the serial resistance was enough to impede (pun intended) the bass damping on most speakers. Very clever marketing, I sold a lot of Monster Cable from that demo before some Electrical Engineer from a nearby aerospace company pointed out the flaws in the setup. But he thought Monster Cable was cool, and bought it anyway.

Hmm, I was not aware of that trick, but it doesn't surprise me.   In our case, we did not use the Monster Cable demo box, we just had roughly equal lengths of Monster Cable and compared that the zipcord speaker wire.   We just moved cables around.    We did not think about how the cables were laying, just the lengths.

Another one was glass platter matts for the turntables.  I was surprised at the increase in clarity due to a thin piece of glass on my platter.   And we did account for the change in VTA.

I would echo judsauce’s commentary. One of the most memorable original posts I’ve ever read, and I’ve followed this forum for ages. Well crafted, humorous… a little levity is what is needed here. Thanks for your contribution!

@judsauce @macg19 @dcevans 

Thanks.  I needed that.

Every day I read, contemplate, and comment on very serious topics.  It is nice to get a break from insanity, and put a little distance between myself and actions that have major consequences.

EVERYONE's contributions to this "little" forum have value that can't be overstated.  Thanks for YOUR posts.

"Ground Enhancers" on my speakers. Stupid little Litz coil of wire makes a difference. 

Going to try putting them on my open RCA's on my pre-amp to see if they do the same as what they did for the speakers. 

My pleasure.

After market power cords. Was convinced that it would be a total waste of time and $$    A buddy lent me some to try out and wow. Numerous upgrades later I'm a believer. 

USB cables make an enormous difference. I started out with the original Dragonfly outoard DAC. I used a USB cable that I had ued with a computer printer. Out of curiosity I bought a used Wireworld Silver Seven and a lot more fancy words and tried it out. Gobsmacking! I have since purchased a Zafino cable which is even better. A cable from Analysis Plus is as good or bettter. But, you should know that cables and DACs are fussy about what matches with what. What works well on one model may not work so well an a different mafufacturers unit. It's just like why the Burger Barons offer so many variations on the basic burger. Happy Liatening!

P.S. Sorry, but somebody's got to say it: If you don't hear any difference between interconnects, it just may be because you amp/speaker wire/speaker combination does not have enough "resolution" to let you hear the difference. Try some of that free speaker wire that some consumer junk comes with. (Something like 20 gauge zip cord.) Compare that with what you are normally using. If you don't hear a difference, you do not have a good package. Sad, but true.

Hi Guys! Sorry, I meant to say original Meridian outboard DAC. The original Dragonfly plugs directly nto a USB slot and doesn't need a cable. My oops!

@ddrave44 

"After market power cords."

Same here.  I was dragged kicking and screaming into this category.  And, have never looked back. 

I’m late to the party.  After reading through this thread, I really like the comments here.  It’s pretty rare to see such a cohesive group and intelligent commentary.  
I will say that on my “journey” I was a cable denier and interconnected denier, a speaker, cable, denier, and pretty much everything denier.

Years Later, I understand, and have heard that everything affects the sound.  Surprise!

I started my journey with receiver for surround-sound

with Amazon, basic cables, and some decent speakers, focal aria 936.

Think my biggest surprise has been with interconnects specifically, digital coaxial cables.  I’ve got a set of audio quest, cinnamon, carbon coffee, and diamond cables. 
They all have differences.  The biggest difference is between as you might expect the $800 diamond and the $100 cinnamon cable. 
It took me a long time to concede this. 

it’s a heck of a hobby and it can really be expensive. Glad to see I’m not the only nut out here.

Two instances come to mind.

One: I bought some 14 gauge speaker cables, 12', "pure copper wire", banana plugs each end - sounded terrible, totally threw a wet towel over the sound (Rotel and Paradigm gear). Went back to the spooled speaker wire. Sounded way better. Cables matter. Hmm. Heard the debate for years. Heard the difference myself.

Second, listened to a very high-end system Stenheim speakers and CH Precision gear. A/B tested James Taylor's vocals with/without a small weighted plate on top of the CD transport. Clearly smoother highs with the plate on top. Not that I'll ever drop $300K on a system, but I certainly heard the difference.

@patrickcarey Following up on your cable journey, any way to estimate or better yet know, which speaker cables will sound good with which gear? Goes for interconnects too. I have Kimber speaker cables, Ascent series, and they sound good but I fell into them and would like to find cables that may take the edge off the ribbon tweeter. Whaddya think? Trial and error or is there a way to figure it out?

Yeah, great question.   I stayed with AQ as a brand and tried a number of their cables, both interconnects and speaker cables. 

I have heard enough to know now that , for example, the AQ 'water' cables do roll off slightly.. or maybe it's the more textured presentation of the top end.  I've had some mogami rca cables that really rolled off the top end, but also threw a wet blanket over the speakers.  Usually, however most want more detail and texture.  So, I think it's really tricky to use cables to try and tune your system.  

Still, having said that there are some cables I prefer on different systems in my house.  I have an Arcam SS the avr 850 paired with Focal 936 and that system needs more detail and air as the arcam is pretty dark, so AQ work well there.

In my music room I have atc scm11s which are not especially extended on the top end.  And, in my office I have some tubes, and they don't need a rolloff either. 

I wonder if you are hearing a ringing or are otherwise unhappy with the top end you maybe should be looking at your amp + speakers.

I can suggest one cable, and you could try it and make sure your vendor has a return policy so if you don't like it, you can get your dollars returned.  That cable is the AQ coffee interconnect.  

Again, system tuning with interconnects is tricky, and usually results in subtle changes at best... If your system is sibilant, well maybe it's the system.  
 

I love the comment about this being a cohesive group. Yes it can be a bit of an echo chamber.  

I would say that the converse has happened to me more:  that I expected/hoped for a great improvement and instead found the difference to be subtle if there was one at all.  

But, often times, I will at some point thereafter decide that there was an improvement.  It's hard to know for sure with auditory memory and all the variables.

That's why I think the audio hobby is truly a journey or a series of them.  There may actually be no end destination - i.e. what you had in the middle was just as good, but different, and what you're really doing is meandering around rather than ascending some quality curve.  But it's all about the journey...just enjoy each part of it.

I had 2 different epiphanies that linger on in memory:

• First time I heard a tube amplifier (Music Reference RM-9). It immediately became clear what solid state wasn't doing; and
• First time I heard a non-oversampling R2R DAC. Total paradigm shift. It took less than 5 minutes to change everything I believed about digital music

It began with a green Marks-A-Lot around the outer edge of the disc. Then a debate began... Green or black marker. I was a Monster Cable Rep back in the late 80’s and sold the stickers.
It continued to specific CD lathe’s to ’true’ the edge.
Then aluminum foil on the trey...

Good transports like the Jay’s mentioned previously with a damper attached is a great solution for false readings. I purchased an Esoteric transport and at 55 lb with the best tray/laser made... it sounded quite different from NAD’s, Pioneer Elite, Sony and other lower end transports...
The Audio Desk CD lather and a very simple way to also apply marker...

@pwdmark 

I remember those days. I tried and verified the green markers worked, and all of my CDs have green edges. I also remember the lathe… it really made it obvious what the markers were doing. But I never went that far.