I guess the hobby will survive but it is more limited now to a smaller number of enthusiasts, who, however, are willing to (or are forced) to spend more. In the past, there were many people who wanted good quality stereo and could get it for a relatively small amount of money. Moving from a simple cassette player to a fully-fledged hi-fi system was easier. Now the young generation are mostly satisfied with music played from their phones (some invest in better headsets if they really care about the quality of the music they hear). Sometimes I'm really surprised at how little people know about our hobby. To end with a little joke, a friend of mine, who is a distributor of hi-end systems was once visited by a customer interested in auditioning a pair of speakers. The distributor played a track with beautiful vocals right in the centre of the soundstage. A person accompanying him in the audition commented: "If she's singing so beautifully right in the centre, why do you still need those on the sides? (pointing to the speakers being auditioned). I can see also all those strange looks my tube amplifier is receiving from people visiting me at home.
@ghasley +1
Shouldn't you be storming a capitol somewhere complaining about your privilege? |
I’m unsure if there is an IQ test administered to move here, but you may want to have your guardian check on that for you. |
Honk, wrong, I'm actually way ahead of my time. After black people near you have to try not to have been criminals also, you will hear Canadians speak of how much they love our future queen Middleton (although only on the streets, so that everyone else has to finally be grumpy about everyone else's jobs, instead), for teaching us all that people never needed more freedom of speech. All the American immigrants who need more of that will obviously prefer the USA, where people should really be taking out their anger on the wealthy, since they're ready for it. I'm going to move to the US, start my own company that manufactures sutures and plaster for casts, and then become a musician. I wonder how much my fans could eventually allow me to compensate myself from my stocks? |
I always find it interesting how people are capable of behaving when they can be anonymous. Racist memes and over-generalizations are typically the hyperbole of those yet to reach puberty. I do think its very cool of you though that your username pays tribute to Biggie. Very cool indeed. |
Your entire, miserable, incoherent treatise is delusional but, the good news is, it probably won't last until end of day. |
The original Layla album is indeed quite poor sounding. I'll never understand why Tom Dowd thought it was a good idea to record everyone in the same room. As to whether the T.Trucks version is better artistically, I don't agree with you.
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When I compare what’s available now (streaming Quboz hi res files) compared to what I did in the 1970’s (vinyl over an Ariston RD11s with Grace 707 arm and a hsnd-picked Sonus Blue cartridge), it’s clear that NOW is the golden time! My Aurender N100H/Yggdrassil combo wipes the analog gear in sound quality. My Schiit Saga with an old Sylvania JAN 6SN7GT sounds better than my Audio Research SP6B and Marantz 7C preamps ever did. And the music selection now is so amazing, the old stuff more available than ever at higher resolution (think Grateful Dead Betty Boards!) as well as a ton of superb bands. I would put up Tedeschi Trucks (their version of Layla beats the original IMHO and FAR better recorded), Phish, Goose, etc etc against any 60’s band. I learn about new music from people decades younger than me, and revel in companies like Schiit who make such great products at low prices. Thus, I don’t lament. I just enjoy!
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You're not sure you buy it -- ok. This is an empirical question about a wide range of behaviors over large populations. There are studies, and then there are anecdotes. If the interest in the answer to the question is scientific, the agreement on definitions and methods is primary; if the interest is just casual, then anecdotes are, however flimsy, sufficient. |
@hilde45 I’m not sure I buy the attention span argument made in the article you referenced. I’m a member of r/kindle and from people’s self descriptions it is clear many younger people buy kindles to sit and focus on reading. Younger people sit and focus on binge watching episodes. |
Us Boomers had a choice of in-home entertainment of three TV channels or listening to music, and later an Atari and a wired remote VHS that required you to drive to the store to use. And even though I'm retired now, I sit and listen far less because I have so many other choices. So it's not a surprise that in the past 20 years I haven't run into anyone under 50 who cares about equipment, much less sitting and listening. But I have run into many who have some form of home theater system. The equipment shows I've been to look like retirement seminars. |
stuartk A very astute observation. Is it live or is it Memorex? Before long, partaking of music could be like the sex in the Stallone movie 'Demolition Man! simao No offense meant and certainly none taken. We're just having what has turned out to be an interesting discussion concerning aging audiophiles, with a 'well done' nod to tubelvr11. |
I think the reason live music is such a 'thing' now is that the very young don't know how good music can sound on a decent system, which does not mean a really expensive system. Just, you know, what we boomers had in our youth, a receiver, a source (then a turntable, now a streamer), and a couple of decent speakers. Used to cost under $500 back then, probably could do it for way less than that amount adjusted for inflation now. Instead they stream from their phone to a crappy $79 BT speaker. |
So, you’re sitting around in 2024 with noisy old vinyl, tubes and under some illusion that younger folks don’t have anything or heard anything better than what you’ve got? Quite funny because they can buy an official studio master 24bit hires for 8 bucks these days. A pair of cheap apple spatial pods sounds better than any old old hyped up dinosaur rig i can remember. They are sure to be disappointed when they actually hear the quality of the dinosaur rigs/dinosaur media/the grand illusion/letdown. I suppose there are a few young hipsters without a turntable collecting some vinyl...doesn’t sound like any kind of ’comeback’ to me. |
This is a really interesting discussion. I'm 76 now, and rebuilding my system. During a recent move I abandoned quite an inventory of equipment, a lot of which was self-constructed and/or purchased after years of upgrades and development. I had moved to a smaller place along with all this stuff, said to hell with it, and constructed a mini-system that was surprisingly good and, I thought, perfectly adequate. So then came the move and the necessary (!) downsizing. I moved to the next place and found myself staring at something I had never had: the perfect listening space. My mini system was still good, but the possibilities...... Fact is, this is a connoisseurs game, like any other. It is also fun. There will always be such people but here's the generational difference: electronics technology, along with everything else, has changed radically, opening up new possibilities for the great unwashed. No one in the sixties or seventies could get musical performance out of their low-to-midlevel gear that approached was is now available digitally, or via streaming, into an internet-coupled speaker or a set of earbuds. Equi[pment on this level in times past was awful. Remember what it was like the first time you entered a hifi store and heard what was in there? Also, in those days music was far more diverse and of, frankly, higher quality overall. Now the entry-level gear is so much better but the source material is, by and large, pedestrian (I would prefer a different term). It often really doesn't matter what you're listening with. Most people are not connoisseurs and they shouldn't be. So the market for superior audio quality has declined in the face of enhanced reproduction coupled to degraded material. Declined, but not gone away. A couple decades ago, who would have thought that young people would start clamoring for vinyl playback and vacuum tubes? Saying things like "it just sounds better!". So I'm an old guy who just can't give it up. I moved 60 boxes of vinyl down here! |
This is a really interesting discussion. I'm 76 now, and rebuilding my system. During a recent move I abandoned quite an inventory of equipment, a lot of which was self-constructed and/or purchased after years of upgrades and development. I had moved to a smaller place along with all this stuff, said to hell with it, and constructed a mini-system that was surprisingly good and, I thought, perfectly adequate. So then came the move and the necessary (!) downsizing. I moved to the next place and found myself staring at something I had never had: the perfect listening space. My mini system was still good, but the possibilities...... Fact is, this is a connoisseurs game, like any other. It is also fun. There will always be such people but here's the generational difference: electronics technology, along with everything else, has changed radically, opening up new possibilities for the great unwashed. No one in the sixties or seventies could get musical performance out of their low-to-midlevel gear that approached what is now available digitally, or via streaming, into an internet-coupled speaker or a set of earbuds. Equi[pment on this level in times past was awful. Remember what it was like the first time you entered a hifi store and heard what was in there? Also, in those days music was far more diverse and of, frankly, higher quality overall. Now the entry-level gear is so much better but the source material is, by and large, pedestrian (I would prefer a different term). It often really doesn't matter what you're listening with. Most people are not connoisseurs and they shouldn't be. So the market for superior audio quality has declined in the face of enhanced reproduction coupled to degraded material. Declined, but not gone away. A couple decades ago, who would have thought that young people would start clamoring for vinyl playback and vacuum tubes? Saying things like "it just sounds better!". So I'm an old guy who just can't give it up. I moved 60 boxes of vinyl down here! |
This is a really interesting discussion. I'm 76 now, and rebuilding my system. During a recent move I abandoned quite an inventory of equipment, a lot of which was self-constructed and/or purchased after years of upgrades and development. I had moved to a smaller place along with all this stuff, said to hell with it, and constructed a mini-system that was surprisingly good and, I thought, perfectly adequate. So then came the move and the necessary (!) downsizing. I moved to the next place and found myself staring at something I had never had: the perfect listening space. My mini system was still good, but the possibilities...... Fact is, this is a connoisseurs game, like any other. It is also fun. There will always be such people but here's the generational difference: electronics technology, along with everything else, has changed radically, opening up new possibilities for the great unwashed. No one in the sixties or seventies could get musical performance out of their low-to-midlevel gear that approached was is now available digitally, or via streaming, into an internet-coupled speaker or a set of earbuds. Equi[pment on this level in times past was awful. Remember what it was like the first time you entered a hifi store and heard what was in there? Also, in those days music was far more diverse and of, frankly, higher quality overall. Now the entry-level gear is so much better but the source material is, by and large, pedestrian (I would prefer a different term). It often really doesn't matter what you're listening with. Most people are not connoisseurs and they shouldn't be. So the market for superior audio quality has declined in the face of enhanced reproduction coupled to degraded material. Declined, but not gone away. A couple decades ago, who would have thought that young people would start clamoring for vinyl playback and vacuum tubes? Saying things like "it just sounds better!". So I'm an old guy who just can't give it up. I moved 60 boxes of vinyl down here! |
@rcm1203 I know; I can be an ageist ass sometimes. But I feel people are fossilizing themselves when they write off contemporary music. Still, thanks for the reminder. |
moto_man To parody my own statement, my grandparents hated my rock music! In their minds, the only music worth listening to came from 'real' musicians like Benny Goodman and Glenn Miller. Truth be told, I can actually listen to and enjoy music from their era now, but I hated it when I was younger, just like I can't stand the current generation's music. My point is that every generation has it's 'golden era' of music, and there's nothing wrong with that. We humans call it progress, even when it doesn't sound like it!simao, Don't be too hard on us old geezers, we're just keeping tradition alive and well! bipod72 I think you've hit on another aspect of the OP's query. I'm a Boomer, and at this point in my retired life, I have more discretionary cash flow and more free time to enjoy it then ever before. I've been channeling a lot of both into my system just playing around and trying new equipment. I try to temper the urges by reminding myself that our worldly treasures eventually wind up being somebody else's junk that they have to get rid of. If I pass before my wife, she'll just have her son pick everything up and get rid of it, which he'll do because he isn't any more interested in it than his mother. If I out live her, the end will be the same because I have no heirs of my own. BTW, I'll go to my grave never regretting that fact. We now have virtual reality headsets with 3D sound that mimics true reality very convincingly, and I think that trend is going to merge right into the music world as well. Many of us two channel folks have strived to reproduce the 'live' experience in our home systems. I firmly believe that experience will be realized in the very near future with systems that fit on the head and deliver an experience we could only dream about.
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FWIW, I am not a boomer and on the younger side of the Gen X cohort. Iraq and Afghanistan were my wars, if that you age me. I think I might have been a fetus when my dad was in Vietnam, but would have to check a calendar. I think it a factor of time and money being more available to older people, at least for people seeking "more than mid-Fi" fidelity. And, bluntly, it takes serious bucks to make vinyl sound better than something from Best Buy. Mainly, I think, because mid-fi has gotten darn good. So there is no "Buick" in the lineup. You go from nice Chevrolet that is absolutely fine transportation to Range Rover in the audio market. Aside from the price barriers for equipment, it's having a dedicated place for listening, preferably apart from young children. I am blessed enough to have a dedicated listening room and money for good equipment. And a youngest child who is 15. I do think the millennial generation is a bit skipped, for the reasons above. But my children (older teens) are very much audiophiles, probably due to Covid lockdowns forcing them to have at-home interests.
Eldest who is in college has a nice headphone tube amp and streamer (and Focal Utopias she bought with hard earned money). Her taste in music runs from the 1930s to now, and she readily admits older music (70s and older) tends to be far better. She'd love to have vinyl, but a dorm room is not the place. Youngest has a nice integrated system and my three year old B&W 701s in her room, along with a very high end Pro-Ject (also a hand-me-down) that is her prized possession. We carefully tuned her room with REW software and minimal baffles. Taught her how and she did it. Currently saving up for a nice VDH Frog cartridge. Her music tends towards modern angsty women singers (Lana Del Rey being the only one I recall and some Chinese/Icelandic singer), typically on vinyl. She stole my Mammas & Pappas collection, vinyl. Also, FWIW, I doubt I'll ever go to "audiophile" events. I'm of the "this could have been an email" generation when dealing with meetings, in general. And would, by far, rather text than talk on the phone. Not much of a club joiner guy. I'm the guy whose family goes to synagogue on the regular, gives plenty, but only talks with anyone if required to, if that helps. Dreds when the rabbi comes to dinner. |
Here's my anecdotal take on the topic. I'm 52 and amongst my friends, family and coworkers I can count maybe, off the top of my head, 6 or 7 of them who have dedicated hi-fi setups. And when I say hi-fi, I'm talking about a receiver, speakers, and a turn-table - very mid-fi setups. Of those 7, only one has a dedicated streamer, CD player, pre-amp and amp combo, and a 2-channel system. That would be me. The majority listen to music via streaming services using Bluetooth speakers or earbuds. I think of the 6 people I know with dedicated listening set-ups, there are a few of those set up as home theater/gaming systems where music is secondary. So while there may be more hi-fi components being sold than ever and at the higher-end as well, that's not because the cohort of hi-fi consumers is necessarily growing exponentially in the under-50 crowd, but because the aging Gen-Xers finally have discretionary cash lying around to invest in systems and the 60+ crowd are replacing or upgrading. Sure, you'll have the 1%ers of the wealthy buying high end setups because they can and want to impress but that is still a small market share of total units sold. We also have a bigger global population as well. I'm sure over time, the Millenials, Gen-Z crowd will grow into wanting better-sounding systems, but many don't know what they're missing out on and will stick with whole-house Sonos or Google speaker systems that "do just fine" in playing their daily Spotify lists. A small segment of headphonauts will stick with such setups but upgrade over time and maybe venture into 2-channel setups. But having discretionary funds to spend on those things is a big ask for people who are not dedicated & discriminating music listeners. I have 3 young kids so the idea that I'll be dropping huge wads of cash on components is laughable. I can justify spending $3-5K on speakers but anything beyond that is not a priority for me. I'm happy with a mid-fi hi-fi system. I know a few younger co-workers who are into listening to vinyl but they enjoy the sound and are happy with a $400 setup and honestly, the technological improvements happening over time make the entry-point into a decent hi-fi system easy to achieve without breaking the bank. I think the future of hi-fi will be the continued growth of mid-priced hi-fi. You'll still have the guys buying the flagship Gryphon and Wilson Audio and those manufacturers will focus on that niche. But companies like Marantz, Cambridge Audio, Bluesound, WIIM will be what a growing number of people will have as their first hi-fi setup. |
@moto_man "In 20 years, is anyone going to want to listen to hip-hop, rap, Taylor Swift, Steve Aoki, etc.?" A. Conflating individual artists with complete genres is a fallacy. Hip hop and rap have been around for 40 years now, give or take, and millions are still listening to hip hop from the 80's and 90's. Swift's audience is much more homogenous, but I suspect they'll be listening to her in 20 years. B. You're right insofar as there are way more avenues for personal entertainment/distractions now than simply audio and three channels on TV. Gen Alpha is more visual and meme-based than any generation in history and for them music consumption is much more ephemeral and hyper - as is consumption of almost any media. C. "But in those days, we didn't have 100+ TV channels, YouTube, personal computers, smartphones and all of the other distractions. Then, it was music, hanging out, smoking pot, and going to movies."
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Audiophile listening isn't dying. The music worth listening to is old, just like the audiophiles who listen to it. We are a dying breed of connoisseurs, soon to be extinct. People have mentioned the lack of attention span and the inability of youth of today to actually sit and listen to music for the sake of listening. But I also wonder about whether the music contributes to that. I grew up in the late 60's and 70's, which I consider to be the "golden age" of rock. Classic rock and jazz are the genres that I listen to. I can listen to the Doors, Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Tull, Yes, etc. forever. In 20 years, is anyone going to want to listen to hip-hop, rap, Taylor Swift, Steve Aoki, etc.? Doubt it. Current music just doesn't have the staying power of the classics and so why listen to it on a $50K+ system. For me, I love listening to classic rock and jazz that sounds like "you are there." I always have appreciated great stereo since my college days in the '70's, and that has been a passion since then. The realism of a fine system in the 70's hooked me in about 1975. But in those days, we didn't have 100+ TV channels, YouTube, personal computers, smartphones and all of the other distractions. Then, it was music, hanging out, smoking pot, and going to movies. For people growing up now, there are so many distractions. The more distractions, the less important the "hobby" of listening to music for the sake of music, as compared to background. My step-son appreciates listening to my stereo but is never going to buy similar equipment. I suspect that he won't appreciate it even when I leave it to him. Bottom line, I hope that there will be a new generation that appreciates fine audio equipment, but I sadly suspect that we are a dying breed. |
Reading through this very interesting post, the theme seems to be that audiophiles are not a dying breed. The dynamics of listening and the equipment used to facilitate it have changed dramatically from our (boomers) days. I recently read an article concerning the trend that the current generation of workers seldom take vacations, and apparently don't even use their vacation time to just get away from work. During my working years, I knew quite a few people who hardly ever vacationed, but always used their annual allotted days off and just chilled out at home. Apparently, the kids today just don't have that kind of free, 'do nothing' time because of all their social responsibilities. With a growing selection of exceptional wireless ear buds and speakers, and smart phones with excellent processors, they can take their audiophile systems with them. They probably look at our home based systems and just consider them a monumental waste of time and money! One of my guilty pleasures is using my Sony NW-A105 Hi Res Walkman and Pulse Explore wireless earbuds while I putter around the house. If they are happy with their version of audiophilia, who are we to pass judgement on it? Still, it is sad to see our version pass. My enjoyment of the hobby has always been just as much about the reproduction of the music I love as it has been about the visual feast of the gear used to do it. |
Well... If you take a look at who’s attending the Audio Shows, from what I’ve seen it appears to be more folks over 50 than under. I retired in 2023 and during my work life, my career offered me enough discretionary income to afford some really nice gear. I went through an evolution like many of us as we traipsed down the halls of equipment upgrades for promises of sonic improvement. Now that I’m retired, I don’t have that luxury of discretionary income, however I’ve managed to have a good system that I can thoroughly enjoy for my listening. Younger folks who are budding audiophiles as many have said just don’t have the time and $$$ to make high value equipment purchases, nor enjoy them due to lack of time. In the 80’s and early 90’s, you could swing a dead cat and hit an audio store in most towns, and now they’re but a memory in many cases. I visited one this week and enjoyed it, however it was a far cry from those stores of yesteryear. More mid-fi than hi-fi. Yet the major equipment manufacturers are going gangbusters with new designs, especially in the digital realm. And price/performance in the digital realm has actually come down putting quality digital reproduction in the hands of more people. My daughter (36 Y/O), a budding audiophile has gotten some of my hand-me-down equipment and nearly all of my vinyl since I’ve gone strictly digital. But like many other young folks, doesn’t have a lot of time for serious listening. But I do think though that while the days of Boomer audiophiles may be numbered, many others are coming that will carry the torch and keep this industry moving and thriving. |
I don’t think so. But this thread made me think back to the first high-end audio store I visited in the mid 80’s. I remember listening to a MacIntosh rig - separates- a - Linn TT, and I think some Cerwin Vegas (horns?) I think the Mac gear was $5K each. Pre, amp, Cd player Mesmerizing. I bought some mid fi home audio gear but also 2 pretty decent custom car installs from them including the same Luxman/Alpine head unit that came with Lambo’s back in the day. Anyway, that store is still there, sound hounds in Victoria established in 1973
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@rcm1203 😂 I respect your brutal honesty! |
Agree with your comment. I am 57 and have kids in college or just out. None of them have a decent stereo and they have very little interest in one. I have tried to get them interested and even have equipment I could give them. I guess it's just not cool anymore. Headphones and bluetooth speakers seem to be the norm. When I was in college about every dorm room had some kind of stereo and we went from room to room listening. Times have changed for sure. I upgraded all my equipment once the kids got older and started driving etc. I think that is pretty normal for our generation but not sure if the younger gen will do this when they are our age. Various streaming devices with wireless speakers seem to be the more likely path for younger generations. The one thing I do see is a fair amount of younger people buying vinyl. There is interest there but hard to tell how much. |
Point taken. Be warned: 90% of this site runs on (freely, cavierly, recklessly) with anecdotes with a sample of one. ;-) The other alternative would be for people to withhold their opinion. LOL. |
Fascinating excellent comments. Might I add that if you want to know what other people are thinking, then don’t use yourself or your friends as core samples. If those who participate here are largely older males helping one another out basically to sort out equipment, then we’re not the best to self report. Aslo this forum is mostly team USA folks. Ironically can’t use Reccord sales to help get a snapshot of the state of the audiophile/high end gear world’s survival indicators as ones and zeros have taken over. I’d like to see the price bell curve of the average streamer price. |
Inexpensive audio? Hate to rankle anyone that finds the offerings ’meh’, but ’Chi-Fi’ is Huge in Asia.....lots of ’entry level’, regardless of how one might dis/downplay/ignore its’ existence.... Not long after the intro to the ’global market’, the overall ’appearance’ of the items got ’gloss-ier’, offered more levels of control, and generally more ’bang/buck$’ for the not-so-well-off-burgeoning ’phile market... Good-looking ’tiny ’phile with D amps....the speakers are (as usual) the slowest to keep up with the improvements in the front end stuff, but ought to, given some time... Just the ticket for dorms one can’t afford, the tuition makes a home down payment a fever dream....so the rise in apartment construction breaks the ceiling...🤷♂️🙄 Frankly, I’m happy to be in the ’8%ile’ age category in the chart on pg.1.....as I wouldn’t wish the next 2 decades on anyone cogent enough to realize what’s really happening... Since ’we’ as a species didn’t have it together enough to ’order up’ additional Earths’ to cover the demands for air, water, raw materials, farmland, housing....etc. And that ’Etc.’ list is huge... ----------------/--------------------------/--------------------/------------------/----------------- A local auction house posted a online sale of hi-fi equipment and items. A batch of ’mid-ish’ stuff that looks to be about 3~4 ’pairings’ of units, some speakers, couple of subs....box of cables, cd’s, dvd’s.....and posters! I’ve no horse in the race, and not interested in bidding... But, being the nice guy none suspect of me, the stuff has to be picked up by the next day. PM if you’re curious.... Note to our A’gon monitors: Trust me, there’s no mega-buck item(s) in the lot that would appear here, and y’all could look for yourselves..... ....and they wouldn’t list the stuff here anyway....not likely that A’gon exists in their universe.... ;) |
@phillyrover Great point the heart of my system is a Deja Vu Audio preamp and a pair of George Wright monoblocks. Custom and boutique builders can offer a ton of value and incredibly good sound. |
@jl35 +1 |
When I was a kid, one of the necessities was a high-end stereo. Almost all the young men I knew had nice stereos. Some had super nice ones. I was one of those. Today, I know of no one, zilch, that has a stereo of any kind. All my kids and grandkids listen on their phones. And even watch all their movies there also... Yea, it going to be a dead-end road shortly as us older folk retire earth. |
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/the-attention-span-gap/ |
