If there’s an audiophile exit ramp, this ain’t it…

femoore12

353 posts

09-27-2021 2:23am

probably DIY will help ignore a lot of bought positive reviews .But it will take a lot of time- learning,patience and consistency building your own systemOther way forget reviews ,listen stereo systems in shows or shops ,trying to find what kind of sound you like the most

@pmiller115

I have almost always maintained that once you reach whatever you consider as perfection and have no interest in moving forward, it is no longer a hobby. Whatever it is becomes a possession that you use but no longer strive to work with and further perfect. I think a hobby is something that occupies your time, your involvement and your interest to move forward with whatever the endeavor happens to be. A stamp collector that no longer collects stamps is no longer a stamp collector but rather becomes a person with a stamp collection.

what you say above is doubtlessly correct

as a point of discussion though, one can justifiably debate whether hifi (the gear) is the hobby, or whether music (the content) is the hobby -- in the latter case one can get off the equipment merry go round and still experience much joy in searching out new music, new performances ...

I have almost always maintained that once you reach whatever you consider as perfection and have no interest in moving forward, it is no longer a hobby. Whatever it is becomes a possession that you use but no longer strive to work with and further perfect. I think a hobby is something that occupies your time, your involvement and your interest to move forward with whatever the endeavor happens to be. A stamp collector that no longer collects stamps is no longer a stamp collector but rather becomes a person with a stamp collection.

If you looking for perfection, you will never find it....especially here.New stuff comes out ,and new performances of perfection begin again.Just try and be Happy....

@redwoodaudio & others, one thing you could try that might be therapeutic is entering your music media into a collection on discogs.com.
I've just completed this project which kept me busy for a few months, doing a bit most evenings.  While initially a tedious process, I emerged with many takeaways:
- Wow, my collection is worth far more than I expected
- Which albums/artists are highly valued and in demand vs. under-appreciated
- An insurance valuation 
- A reminder of some great albums that deserve more listens
- Some surprising revelations & reminders about who played on & helped make various recordings
- A better understanding of mysterious dead wax etchings & stampings
- Realization of numerous multiple copies that could be purged/sold
- A portable tool for Wishlists and to avoid buying albums I already have

Cheers,
Spencer

I’m with you.

I have an approach to audio that hasn’t changed in 53 years: efficient tube analog. The equipment improved with my income over the years. The system I have now - except for the room - has stayed essentially the same since 1985. The room was added 3 years ago. It lifted the system to a place where I don’t really need to improve it.

I guess I sorta hang out here for reasons of fomo. But my fomo is fairly mild. I’m getting old: so I do think in terms of not complicating my life by chasing my tail.

See 

https://www.theaudioatticvinylsundays.com/about

I've never been beholden or loyal to nostalgia or systems/components in my past. I also trust that my ears are still good enough and that my exposure to live unamplified instruments still happens often enough to keep my ears in reasonably proper tune. I'm also immensely happy with what my system currently delivers. Sure, it ain't live but it still still delivers enough to make listening to the system an eminently pleasurable experience.

However, in the end it always comes back to timbre and tonality. The very two things that I fell in love with all those years ago.

@cd318 Yes, I agree and those fine qualities have been around in audio,  for a long time. I'm glad you resonated with my post. 

@sumaato,
My off-ramp was to get off where I began!
The story ended where it began.
Obviously, my audio taste, both aurally and aesthetically was formed 52 years ago



These are all comments that strike a resonance with me too.

One evening some 40 odd years ago I heard a record playing system blasting out of a window whilst I was playing outdoors.

It must have been set on repeat as I remember the same acoustic songs cinjng round again and again.
There was something so colourful about the tonality that it seemed to pierce into my mind.

With each passing decade I'm becoming increasingly convinced that my entire audio journey has been mainly about recapturing a similar sensation as experienced that evening.

Of course, like any seasoned audiophile, I like to tell myself that I'm primarily interested in good source materials/mastering, loudspeakers with good frequency/impulse response/bandwidth/spatial effects/ dispersion etc.

However, in the end it always comes back to timbre and tonality. The very two things that I fell in love with all those years ago.

Your post certainly made me reflect. I guess that at least for some of us it's not always easy to know just what it is that we are really looking for.

So thank you for sharing your story.

My off-ramp was to get off where I began! I am completely convinced that audio satisfaction is a state of mind, not material, each one of us holding a different set of qualifiers.

In my case, terminal satisfaction arose when I purchased (at age 68) the first good audio system I ever heard at age 16: original Quad II amps, ls3/5a speakers, passive controller. The story ended where it began. Obviously, my audio taste, both aurally and aesthetically was formed 52 years ago. I enjoy the look, sound, feel and machine-love of these components so much. In the intervening years I've owned modern, high end, new technology, more resolving, more transparent, more impressive 'everything', but it all led me back to the beginning. To be honest, with the right kind of self-reflection, I could have figured out what would be my best choices years ago. I didn't have the self-awareness. I, like so many, swapped components willfully, but somewhat blindly, ever reaching for I don't know what.

Enjoy the music. If it sounds bad* (you don’t enjoy music you normally enjoy) then change the music. 
 If everything sounds bad, invite some audiophile friends over, and assess the system- what might need to change? Your friends can help. Maybe they have some equipment you can try?
 It’s part of the hobby.  *search for a better recording-record, CD, etc. Shouldn’t cost too much money, but, it’s lots of fun.  Enjoy what you got. 

It looks like your speakers are pretty new how are you liking them? That Absolare integrated is supposed to be pretty killer and great reviews does it drive the Graham's well? You seem to have tweaked your system pretty well already. What I''m getting at is by any estimation you have a great system. A lot of times there isn't better there's just different. Buy some new music or go back and listen to some long ago old favorites see how great they sound on your great system.

That is the hidden trap that to many step in. They love the music then read some articles that talk about depth width sound stage timber bass and on and on. They soon stop loving the music and start dating their system. Only to realize that when they were in love with the music it was as loyal as their dog that never questioned them and was always at the door to great them. The new love called system is the girl friend who is always late demanding critical and looking to get a new tattoo every month. Break up with system, go back to your first love music and ask for forgiveness music is vary forgiving and nonjudgemental!

any pursuit can be taken over the top, one needs to measure, based on one’s own internal compass, what is a positive amount of passion versus what is too much

one also needs self awareness, introspection and self-honesty about whether you are really made happy by the experience of ’chasing’ the next good feeling, and/or whether the continuing chase is counterproductive to other life priorities

that said, i have found over time that it is good to have multiple hobbies and pursuits, and good to take some time and space away from any particular one, so that when you reconnect with that activity it brings good feelings and confirms why you loved it so much in the first place

Most of us chase the dragon with varying degrees of intensity; and, we all have to deal with that in our own way. The main question is do you have the discipline to control this; or, do you let life circumstance (spouse, retirement, job loss, medical issues, etc) make your decision for you.

But, to me, the wild card is that audiophilia is probably our favorite and most expensive hobby. God knows we all need one of those. So, this allows you the option to make exceptions or justify continuing to chase the dragon......and, that's where the conflict comes from.

Oh, soldering and the means of doing so...

Don't buy a Home Despot cheapie (or not so much), Parts Express has decent ones that have a handy stand for a hot iron.

Chasing one that's threatening to roll off the desk can cure that impulse if you snag the wrong end.... ;)

I've let audiophilia consume so much of my brainspace, I'm nervous to see how often I reach for audio stuff as a reflex. I'm anticipating some withdrawal effects.

...can I interest you in some 'vintage heroin'....?  *L*  Sometimes a cure can do more drain bamage.... ;)

Actually, it can be painless to ignore the siren song of 'better this over the junque you have'...being facetious about that, but that used to be the greener grass over the fence of doubt and envy.

There will always be a something that is (or purports to be) so much more significant in some fashion....employing the 'vehicle analogy', a Smart Car will get you somewhere just as surely as a Lotus Evija can...

Those who can and feel they must will opt for the latter...and will have the fund$ to support their auto mistress....*S*

Knew a young man who bought a used Alfa Spyder.....a start of the classic 'love/despise' relationship....always chasing mechanical demons between lost weekends chasing curves, both asphalt and the femmes'.

Audio equipment has similar traits. Mho, one can OCD self into fits over it, chasing the dragon.

Or....one can just chill, and employ it just as it is for the time being.

The 'new' will always be out there....and 'used' isn't a dirty word, either.

Enjoy.  Stop fretting (unless you take up guitar or something else with strings attached). ;)

There is always a more expensive hobby to sober ya up….

@kennyc, @surfmuz, @raysmtb1 —yes, there is an addictive component in this hobby and I’m starting to realize I need to take a step back before I ruin it for myself.

the rushes came with the anticipation of new gear and a few times with marvelous improvements to my system that gear unleashed. I can’t afford to chase new rushes like that now, given where my new baseline is at. And I like where im at, which is cool.  But these forums serve the temptations up fast and steady.  Kudos to those of you who can keep a cool head about it.

It’s interesting that even in this thread created specifically to be NOT about gear options and upgrades, several posts have gone there anyway. Not judging anyone, just observing. And since some of my thoughts here are counter to the prevailing culture of this hobby, some negative reactions happening too. Overall positive, though, and that’s encouraging.

Thanks all.

The only think I can see you possibly purchasing 
is advancing digital technologies which keep advancing 
and is modular for future advances . Briscasti has been a front runnner l and having a streamer board built in is a solid bonus ,
lower noise better isolation and 2 less cables.
i have the M3 with streamer board, but m trying to save for 
their flagship M21 , this-is a valid point to consider , 
and the upper models M1 and M21 ,which both have a R2R dac as well as classic multi bit Analog devises dual mono 1955 dacs and many other advancements. There are more and more high end companies making excellent dac -Streamer combinations and Being Modular  is a must for low cost future upgrades.

   Redwood audio, i’ve been sober for about 26 years now and you guys joke through this thread about addiction but you’re not far off. Watch this little short video about addiction the little yellow object is the stereo. It says a lot about how many of us think. The part that sucks is that there are people that take advantage and sell BS products that don’t do anything. They’re taking advantage of the monster that lives inside of us. They are not nice people. Does your system have any tone controls? Are use my parametric equalizer in ROON Along with a graphic analyzer and spend time making adjustments to the music and learning white tones I like and what tones I don’t like. I can fix a really bad recording now pretty quick. It makes me feel like a part of my system. Anyways please watch the video below and let me know what you think

https://youtu.be/HUngLgGRJpo

The SQ pursuit and upgrading rush is like money…. Newer enough…..with getting more or better your inquiries just goes up too and new mirages at new horizons appears to be not so illusive. The race is endless and could be destructive for some so it’s important to learn how to get pleasure and satisfaction from things you love. 

@redwoodaudio
Like myself you seem to have an addictive personality and triggers can send your mind into too much rumination.  Your best bet is to go cold turkey, then figure out how much you’ll like to invest in our hobby.

uh oh the cajones police was walking the beat!  😂😂😂😂

I’ve always considered audiophilia to be a disease. 

@cd318 --

Unfortunately we seem to be infected by a virus for which there is no known cure.

I'm hoping taking a step back from the sites will help a bit, but we'll see.

@steamerdude 

That the OP posts the question, he really does not want to find that exit ramp.

I'm definitely conflicted.  These forums and magazines/websites have been fun and useful, but now they're becoming the opposite.  Making me doubt the quality of my system and obsess about further tweaks/upgrades that I can't afford.

I think I will take a break from Audiogon for awhile.  I've already let my Absolute Sound subscription expire.  I have a 3 year subscription to Stereophile and will continue to see if it interests me in the coming months.  

I've let audiophilia consume so much of my brainspace, I'm nervous to see how often I reach for audio stuff as a reflex.  I'm anticipating some withdrawal effects.

That the OP posts the question, he really does not want to find that exit ramp.

Your Absolare integrated is very interesting. And how it must be a terrific match for your 5/5s. How would you compare the 5/5s to Harbeth 40s? Love the BBC sound!

For the love of music!

Exactly what I meant...grow a pair of furniture drawers.

@wolf_garcia   For those "cajones" you'll first need to grow a tree, to get the wood to fashion the two furniture drawers, if that's what you're referring to...

@redwoodaudio,
I just want to enjoy the music.


I think we all do.

Unfortunately we seem to be infected by a virus for which there is no known cure.

Just when and where this infection occured is not known but complete recovery is virtually unheard of.

In fact now there's even an entire industry of magazine reviewers/snake oil salesmen dedicated to ensuring that this never happens.

Very much similar to the way big pharma promotes dependency and shuns cure is the way a final system has not yet been discovered.


Not even after some 70 years of domestic audio.


The symptoms are as follows.
Worrying about the equipment - CD players, turntables, amplifiers, power supplies, cables, loudspeakers etc.

Then there's aspects such as equipment resonance issues, speaker placement, room effects etc.

Turntables really deserve a separate entry when it comes to audio nirvosa (arms, cartridges, alignment, tracking, maintenance etc)

As if all of that wasn't enough there's are at least 2 additional layers of complexity that must be navigated - namely format and mastering.

Just these could take years to conclude.
Example: which Beatles mastering is best?

Is it the original UK vinyl? Or the Japanese, Canadian, German, US or even the DESS needledrops?

If so, then which box?
The Blue Box or the MFSL?
Or is it the privately exchanged R2R copies knocking around? Or even cassettes?

What about the 2012 vinyl remasters or the all analogue 2014s?
Then there's the tricky question of authenticity, ie mono v stereo.

Wasn't stereo a mere afterthought for most of the 1960s as far as 'popular' music went?

Or perhaps it's the 1987s CDs after all. They now seem to be preferred to some of the 2009 digital remasters - but exactly which ones, the mono, the stereo or the USBs?

Or maybe it's the GM 2017, 2018 and 2021 remixes?

Perhaps this quesion will tantalisingly forever hang in the balance?

At least until the definitive 75th anniversary release of the entire catatalogue...and you thought you had problems.

mijostyn

Soldering is easy. The key is a hot iron and speed.

@mijostyn issues so many mistaken pronouncements that it’s hard to keep up, but this one’s a real Dusey.

Soldering is a tricky business. The keys are an iron of the proper temperature (hotter is not necessarily better) and patience.

Many of us do this a-s end backwards.

Your words, not mine.

I’ve been able to control equipment purchases over the years (raising a family will help tremendously with that mind set because no matter how much $$ you make, it’s never enough), but have a real problem controlling media purchases, especially SACDs. When we asked Nationwide what was covered, the stereo systems were fine but they wanted at least a thousand a year at that time to cover the cds, external computer drives, etc. as there are so many.

Marketing is like the news. It is so dishonest it is not worth 2 seconds of anyone's attention.

Hi Fi and music are two completely separate issues that just happen to interact. Hi Fi is analytical. Music is emotional. 

Soldering is easy. The key is a hot iron and speed. You want to complete the connection before you burn everything. Wiring is an artform. Watch this http://www.atma-sphere.com/en/index.html. 

Many of us do this a-s end backwards. We make changes expecting something, anything to improve. It is best to analyze the situation, identify problems and formulate fixes for these specific problems. Institute the fix and see if the problem goes away. You are done when you have no more problems. 

@OP,  I've been there!   There are so many good suggestions above.  

One thing that works for me is actually hearing the gear I think about buying.  That's harder to do with brick and mortar industry on life support and the pandemic.  

I made my first trip to AXPONA in 2019.  It was revelatory.  I was able to hear so much gear.  It was helpful to hear things like you refer to--five figure speakers, amps, etc.   It was great to find out that (estimated) 90% of the stuff I was hearing sounded no better than my system at home.  And, the 10% that sounded as good or better was way beyond my budget;  I would need a home equity line to purchase it. 

Even if you've never soldered a thing, you may want to dip your toes into this pool.  It's like knitting for audiophiles! So rewarding, relaxing, fun and virtuous.    If you're looking for a foolproof kit, try Elekit's offerings.  Bar none, the best directions out there.  You can do a 15 minute YouTube soldering course and you're good to go. 

You let everyone tell you what they think is best for you.  You didn't take the time to learn what satisfies your wants/needs and develop your own opinions.

Marketing does insert that desire and dissatisfaction, but in this hobby you probably spend just as much time (if not more) reading other audiophiles' content about whatever you have on your radar at the time.  You probably focus on one area at a time and give all of your attention to that, and then when you make a purchase you move onto another part of your system and obsess about that, and on and on. The impulse buys can be the deadly ones; I saw a video by the Audiophiliac that suggested that if you're caught up in the constant buying/selling circle that you put a hard limit on yourself: NO new purchases for say, two months and stick to it.  Buy nothing.  It's unrealistic to think that you'll go cold turkey from music and equipment purchases for a long time, but it's possible to slow down the merry-go-round and limit those late-night impulse purchases.  And as it has already been suggested, stop endlessly reading (and rereading) equipment reviews/forum comments, including unsubscribing from audiophile YouTube channels and even this forum (don't worry about us; we'll be fine).  At the end of the day though, you're going to have to rein in that impulse to spend money that you will regret later on, and using OCD as a convenient rationale is an attempt to put the blame on something you have no control over (speaking from experience).

@redwoodaudio thanks!

All hobbies are money pits but as long as you’re not falling into the other addition like behavors, it’s just a hobby, not an addiction.

--Damaging relationships with other?

--Doing it while alone?

--Effecting your work?

--Secretiveness.

--Lying.

--Financially unpredictable, perhaps having large amounts of cash at times but no money at all at other times.

Damn! Instead of watching Dancing with the stars with my wife, I load CD’s to my Zenith and read What-Hifi?

I love listening to music alone!

Hasn’t gotten to "work" work yet, but definitely effectiving house work.

I absolutely will never tell my wife how much my new i-amp cost!!!!

Haven’t gotten there yet... Yet!

Still have plenty of money, but feel like I could be doing more with the money I have.

Shit! This is basically an addiction.

But again, all I need is a new TT and then I’m done. Gonna sell everything else off in the great purge.

Good luck everyone!

I tend to hit a spot with all of my hobbies where I think I won’t spend another cent, because I am in a good place with all of them but my reading or Forum discussions stimulate the desire to purchase.  For example, I listen to Classical Music and read magazines that review recordings.  Every time I tell myself that I don’t need a new cycle of Beethoven recordings, about 3 months later I break down.  Streaming has helped curb the impulse purchases but since it exposes me to more music I haven’t really saved any money.  Any way, why should Audio be different?

Hello,
It sounds like you need a new power cables and some IsoAcoustic or Townshend gear. I say get demoing. What else have you got going on?

@heretobuy —

It's sort of like a heroin addiction if your habit was limited by your income and you could sell your old heroin

I think used heroin may be worth more than the gear I’m selling now 😭, sadly