Does an amplifier benefit from a sturdy well-built amplifier rack?
I'm trying to decide whether to buy a new amplifier rack. The one I have is kind of a light weight material made of plastic composite. I am looking at one rack that was made of steel and weighs about 100 pounds, name of the company is sound anchor. Looks like a nicely made amp.
I'm wondering how an amplifier benefits from resting on a Quality built rack or does it really matter?
As always it is system dependent. I went to look at your system and noticed it gone.
I have used amp stands for decades. I have high quality amps, tubed now. Originally I remember a small improvement. It is likely adding 100 lbs of amp stand will help, just from the mass.
I recently put springs under mine (on the amp stand under the amp) and definitely noticed an improvement.
I have been toying with this idea while talking with an Audiogon member that whether cones (spike like) or springs are more effective might be that coupling with a suspended floor (which may already have absorbed micro vibrations) is better and springs are better when on a cement ground floor (since direct coupling with the ground will pick up micro vibrations) work better. He found cones worked better on his suspended floor and springs worked better for me on my concrete ground floor.
I’m planning on buying a seismometer in the next year or so, so perhaps I would be able to experimentally substantiate (a little bit) the idea.
Anyway, the amp stand with spikes or cones under on a suspended floor might be the best. And the amp stand with springs or anti vibration devices on concrete might be the ticket.
I made my amp stands out of 4" thick solid maple. I then installed 2" Audio points underneath and Herbies sliders under the points. Under the amps themselves I have Critical Mass footers.
Not sure if casters are a great idea under the amp stand and may nullify the benefits by reducing stability
I use SolidSteel S3-A amp stand and it’s pretty good. Did I notice any improvement in sound? Not sure. Never A/B’d before and after.
They look nice though and not very expensive.
I hav3 a heavy walnut and maple stand and for sure much better isolation then glass , that being said iso acoustics makes different models of isolation to put under your equipment, still points too works , even Herbies tube dampers on tubes work, and Herbies also sell footers under $80 good for dacs, preamps.
I have a 24x48 and 3” thick solid maple audio platform. It has 5” coasters. I didn’t notice any improvements when I first got it but it sure looks nice
Yes, and well isolated from your main rack. I use a mapleshade custom 4in thick maple wood amp stand with spiked footers for my 114lb McIntosh MC 500 and it serves it well.
You all are going to think I am crazy. I have a cabinet (cherry and walnut if you think it matters) to house all of my components and have been using it for years. Some time ago someone mentioned using silicone lab-bottle stoppers to isolate components. I bought some, they were cheap, maybe $20 for a bag full from Amazon. But I never got around to trying them. Until recently. I put three under each amp. Wow! The difference was unmistakable. Much more depth and subtlety. I added them to the rest of my components, but can't say I noticed a difference there. It could be because my amps are on the bottom shelf, perhaps 6 inches from the floor, and I am assuming they are subject to more low frequency vibration because of their location. Or perhaps these amps (AGD Tempo) are more susceptible to vibration. No idea, but for me this works. I mentioned it to an audiophile friend who uses a completely different type of amp. His reply a week later was "It works!"
Keeping vibration from all of your electronics is beneficial, especially tube equipment, but wether you can hear the difference is another story. For me, with my equipment, I could not hear a difference, but I put Isoacoustics Gaia feet on my speakers and it made a huge difference!
moving the amp out of the main rack either onto the floor or an amp stand always resulted in improvement in my system. More room to breathe for the amp and less interference with other components, that’s what drives the improvement.
I use a home built stand just for the benefit of “air”. It doesn’t have a top or sides and it does have vents on bottom. Aesthetically beneficial, I don’t realize any audible change with or without. Just checked again to be sure !
Exactly, rubber stoppers. I bet that is where it all started. Then out cam vibrapods with different flexibility for different weights, and half spheres… creating dozens of products… I’m sure besting the stoppers by a bit. Then came more designs of multiple materials and springs. Mark, you probably got the most cost effective one.
@ghdprenticeThese are silicone, but I know rubber is kind of a generic term. I was using springs and ISO Acoustics pucks. Silicone stoppers out performed them by a good margin. The only thing I can think of is 1.5 inch x 3 of silicone provided more dampening to the cabinet. Just guessing. It is really all a mystery to me.
I can feel the base of my system in my chest acoustically. Seems like the better system you have the more you need to keep equipment in another room. But then again studios often use powered speakers (amps inside the speakers, a very violent environment). Always confused having an expensive record player in the same room as big speakers, doesn't the vibration of the speakers affect the cartridge directly?
100% YES is the answer. Those cheap stands will vibrate whenever your high end system is providing sublime pure sound. This induces capacitor jitter which degrades sound as vibration effects capacitor output. For those of us smart enough to have all tube systems the same can be said for the induced filament vibrations which also effect output. I use poured concrete stands and then have special isolation feet beneath the stand and each piece of gear. I only do this in a room with a concrete floor and the outstanding results speak for themselves.
My Patios InPol Heritage integrated sits atop a heavy (non-audio) wooden rack.
the stand is two IKEA APTILIG bamboo boards (1-3/4” each) separated by Herbie’s Giant Fat Dots with Herbie’s Giant Fat Gliders under the stand.
Isoacoustic OREA- as amp footers. Amp weighs 135 lbs.
I used heavy duty solid iron Lovan stands for my entire system. Each is filled with lead shot. Each stand weighs 80 lbs. My system consists of 9 stands, with the 10th used for a TT. The stands were purchased used off Craigslist some 12 years ago for less than $1k. But I did have to drive from Seattle to Portland to get them. My system has never been quieter.
@emergingsoulPlease do not take me seriously. I responded to this topic because I think your stand makes no difference at all and I was being flippant. At times I find questions here are either off the wall strange, see how much I spend braggadocio or troll bait and I don't quite know if you are seriously asking or just having fun waiting for results from your "post"
An Amplifier, which is to be used for trials on assessing how a Sub Plinth Material or Assembly of Materials effects the sonic, or ones perception of the quality of the sonic being produced. Is a relative easy experience to undertake and evaluation of multiple Sub Plinth Materials with differing footers between Support >Sub Plinth and Sub Plinth > Audio Device can be put in place in a very short time scale.
The ease of the exchanging materials leaves good scope to discover where a particular configuration of Support Structure changes ones perception about the sonic being produced. To experience this first hand in a variety of configurations for selected materials does not have to be too expensive. Initially only the footers need to be the items with a noticeable cost that might be off a concern.
A Stone, Wood, Metal or Composite Material such as Thermoplastic are all able to produce a sonic that is presenting a trait that is discernible. Add Footers to these materials and depending on Footer Type, further changes to the sonic are able to be produced that are discernible.
The differences how the changes of materials and configurations of a supporting structures assembly, will also show further, when a Valve Circuit is used, a SS circuit will show a change has occurred, for Valve Equipment the change can be profound, to the point it can almost be described as a new device has been added.
I have after many years of carrying out trials with supporting structures, in recent years arrived at the place that a Phenolic Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board, is the material to aspire to. It offers exceptional properties when used for the role of a Sub Plinth and Footers. I have taken this material to be demo'd on a few systems now, used under TT's, Amp's (SS and Valve) and CD. I use AT 616 as Footers. This material, when in use never fails to bring something that is defined by a group of assessors as being an improvement or much improved.
Bear in mind systems being subjected to a demo' already have good monies spent on designs for a support set up.
Densified Wood as a material does seem to be a material that is ubiquitous, where it properties will be exposed for their Value in all environments used. D'wood will produce a noticeable impact on a sonic in all environments used.
To give an idea of where my present set up for a support structure for Power Amp's is, note: (the audio system is not in use due to preparing for a home renovation). My Amp's are seated on a 20" x 20" x 20" Cube, which is constructed from a lamination of a substance that has a purpose to control vibration in laboratories. It is used as a layer under the screed flooring,
On top of the Cubes which function as support piers, I have a 250Kg Granite Lintel, producing the Supporting Platform. The Granite has on top of it a few layers of different density foams. The Amp's are seated on the Top Layer of Foam without any Third Party Footers in use. On this structure the addition of footers had zero noticeable effect on the sound.
I have lifted the Amp's of the structure and put them on Concrete Floor covered in Carpet and on the same flooring on a Board with AT 616 Footers used. The Home Brew Support Structure is an experience where it seems a new Amp has been introduced.
I do believe that when D'Wood is Trialed at a later date, the Granite will be the material being superseded and possibly the Foam will be as well.
If you run out of stoppers, look at what these guys offer - platinum silicone in different shapes and sizes with adhesive backing. The little sizes make nice replacement feet for peripheral items (i.e., power supplies, switches, and other digital doo-dads) and the big sizes can be used for anything up to subs and large speakers. They provide spring-like isolation plus damping.
@pindacI have to admit you have elevated this thread into the silly stratosphere.
"Densified Wood as a material does seem to be a material that is ubiquitous, where it properties will be exposed for their Value in all environments used. D'wood will produce a noticeable impact on a sonic in all environments used. "
I don't know what all that gibberish means but here are two thoughts. A, you are also a proponent of "Precious Pebbles" and the " Telepathic Tweak" or B you intend to sell something to the rubes and are busy dazzling them with non verifiable unprovable BS.
Once more a response to one of my posts, has enabled me to award another with the 'Donut of the Day Award', or in this case ' Dense-ified of the Day. Please read on.
I understand you might have had experiences that make you sceptical, especially when a not too commonly discussed subject is presented.
The content of my Post is to offer pointers to be considered. Once this route is taken there is other info to be discovered that will be educational.
The product being referred to, for having very attractive values is not limited to myself as an advocate for it being used.
The statement made by myself, is resulting from personal experiences had with such products, which is supported by this explanation.
" I have after many years of carrying out trials with supporting structures, in recent years arrived at the place that a Phenolic Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board, is the material to aspire to. It offers exceptional properties when used for the role of a Sub Plinth and Footers. I have taken this material to be demo'd on a few systems now, used under TT's, Amp's (SS and Valve) and CD. I use AT 616 as Footers. This material, when in use never fails to bring something that is defined by a group of assessors as being an improvement or much improved. "
It is these experiences that enables myself to strongly suggest the material is ubiquitous, and will deliver a attractive contribution in different environments.
As for setting up some kind of sale opportunity. I very infrequently part with my collection of audio equipment. I have a couple of sales made over the past 20 Years, with the last one being approx' 5 years ago.
I don't aspire to make money from selling any type of Audio Equipment ot supporting Ancillaries, be they a Bona fide or Snake Oil Audio Item.
There are Web Sites showing the properties of D'wood through the application of Science and measuring instruments, especially how D'wood compares to 'go to' materials. I encourage this, but this sort of data is not of interest to all who witness it.
Maybe reading the Scientific Data, will be more useful, than spending time with my Layman's description, which is strongly influenced by experiences had. A forum member who is seemingly 'scratching their head', when seeing the reference to D'wood, and it would appear has no knowledge of it being used for Audio Purposes, now feels qualified to share their assessment of my referencing the material as being Gibberish.
As a product Phenolic Resin Impregnated D'wood is used by some very High End Audio Device Producers. It is these who are capitalising on the use of it in relation to receiving a very healthy remuneration.
My experience of acquiring the material is through a Group Buy.
A Board of a dimension to suit a Sub Base or Plinth can be acquired for approx' £100 a Board using the Group Buy purchasing method, I have a selection of Boards, some are out on loan, some gifted to another, and others are on standby that are ranging in thicknesses from 25mm and up to 75mm.
I have other friends also using it in 10mm - 32mm Thickness and claiming very good results.
Alternatively I could go to the mainstream and purchase an identical material, of a almost identical dimension to one already owned for approx' £1000.
I can almost guarantee you that Noone in a blind listening test could determine if your amp is on the floor, a cheap wobbly stand, or an outrageously expensive rack. Additionally, noone will be able to ascertain whether the amp is supported via spikes or springs...absurd. Spend your money on some music.
@mitch2 Thank You for your comments on this Subject.
Your making a reference to 'Panzerholz' is a correct assumption, which is directly relating to a type of a Phenolic Resin Impregnated Densified Wood board that is being referenced in my post.
Your post also has a link I am familiar with, it does help explain in a more controlled manner, why this materials has an attraction for its properties.
It also helps show why there savvy designers of Audio Products, who fully understand how certain materials selected for certain roles will be met with offering a ultimately more beneficial function by selecting Densified Wood over other typical choices, that are usually seen selected for a certain role.
The outcome today being that Densified Wood, produced by carrying out a particular production method is seen used on TT's, TA's, Speakers Cabinets, Equipment Cases, PCB's and as Bespoke Damping for Components within a Circuit and Supporting Structures for equipment.
I personally I am very familiar with the value the usage of a PRIDW adds to the sonic produced, when used on TT's TA's and as a Equipment Support inclusive of being used as a Footer and Puck Weight for mounting on a TT's Platter Spindle.
It is not to be too long, before I am to experience the impact PRIDW will have, when used as a PCB, Bespoke Damping for a Component and Equipment Case.
Densified Wood is produced where a proportion of the production methodology is using a similar methodology used for producing a Plywood.
As an end product D'wood Board, can be not too different to Plywood Board.
The methodology used for producing a PRIDW is quite different to the Plywood Board Production methods
Plywood as a Product in relation to weight, is typically a weight of approx' 900lb/m3 - 1600lb/m3 (400Kg/M3 - 700Kg/m3)
Densified wood as a Product in relation to weight' is typically a weight of approx' 2000lb/m3 - 2300lb/m3 (900kg/m3 - 1050Kg)
Phenolic Resin Impregnated Densified Wood (PRIDW) in relation to weight, is typically a weight of approx' 2700lb/m3 - 3200lb/m3 (1200Kg/m3 - 1450Kg/m3)
I know from experience that a Plywood @ 700Kg/m3 vs D'wood @ 900Kg/m3 that are not made using shared/similar production methods are very similar in how they function as a support structure.
A PRIDW produced using veneers of 0.9mm - 1.2mm, that are assembled as a Cross Grain Structure using a Phenolic Resin as the Binder and then compressed to a 50% thickness in relation to their uncompressed condition.
Which is then Vacuum Treated and Heat Cured is quite a different end product to a a Typical Produced Plywood or Densified Wood produced using Binders that are more akin to a Plywood Production.
Because of the Weight of a Phenolic Impregnated Densified Wood, it does not usually Travel too far from it place of production, as a result of this it can be found offered under a variety of Brands given names, The Brand Delignit call one of their PRIDW Boards 'Panzerholz'.
When sourcing the Material it is seemingly best to have a Board produced from the thinnest of Veneers that is are assembled into a Cross Grain Structure Orientation, it is best to go for maximum compression (Kg per m3). The use of a Resin Binder (not all will make their selected resin known) typically Phenolic Resin, Vacuum Treated and Heat Cured are critical to create the properties being identified as valuable for use in audio applications.
@emergingsoul'Prolix' is a single word describing a larger selection of my Posts.
I am unapologetic, it takes all sorts to make up a membership of a forum.
I am fundamentally an individual who has the enjoyment of music as their goal and ultimate experience in relation to my long held enthusiasm.
If there is a hierarchy it is a Live Performance where the real magic and life long memories are to happen.
Audio Equipment is an area where this enjoyment is able to be enabled, resulting in my long-term interest in audio systems, as well as building a social network around this interest.
When it comes to Audio Equipment, the Electronics side is unavoidable.
Then there is the mechanical interfaces that can be put in place to aide the Audio Equipment to be optimised in its function.
I usually leave all Electronic concerns to EE's who know there stuff, I recently had a Power Cable terminated to the connectors by an Electrician.
When it comes to Mechanical Interfaces I am practicing my ideas in this area, as well as being dependent on Engineers when it comes to the areas where finesse is required.
Note: I do my utmost to only share about my experiences had, and where I have been steered by them.
@roxy54There was myself forming the view, the 'unusual' content in my Posts within this Thread, is the referencing the usage of a PRIDW, as a tier in a Support Structure for Audio Equipment.
Totally in keeping with the OP's inquiry, as the material will be a very useful addition to any Support Rack.
In the OP, I do feel drawn to how the word 'Q'uality is emphasized.
I'm not a member of the Capital Letter Police Squad on 'The Gon', I do sense the membership of this elite sub membership is limited to one only.
I'm surprised the use of the 'Q' managed to slip through net 🚓.
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