HAVE CABLES EVER TAKEN YOUR SYSTEM FROM SOUNDING JUST OK TO SOUNDING GREAT? Experiences ?
Just asking the question. If you don’t believe in cables. Good for you. But if you do have you ever made a cable change that opened up your system to new heights. Just interested if you have or haven’t. If you don’t believe in cables this isn’t a thread for you. What are your thoughts ?
Yes 15 years ago or so I auditioned the Shunyata Anaconda interconnects and speaker cables as an upgrade to my JPS lab superconductor+ The improvements were so dramatic. I remember thinking if I have to mortgage my house these are not going back. and they did not go back about $12,000 at the time which was quite an outlay for me didn’t regret it for a second Worth every penny
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@deep_333 go ahead. It’s not an out selling smthg. I want opinions on how good they are from people who try them. It helps us knowing if real listeners like what they do or don’t do. |
@calvinj I'll put the your name through to a cable connoisseur/collector who'll show up at my house tomorrow. I'm more in the business of living vicariously through him and a few other dudes these days.
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I swapped out AQ Fire XLRs for Firebirds and was truly shocked by the improvement. The Firebirds are more balanced, natural and refined. I also demoed the XLR Thunderbirds alongside the Firebirds. Surprisingly, the silver Fire and copper Thunderbirds sounded more alike than the silver Fire and silver Firebirds. The Firebirds are neutral and highly detailed without being fatiguing. |
I use Canare Starquad cables throughout my system, mostly for noise rejection, and it's dead quiet. The genius that is John Siau, agrees with this, and that is what they, (Benchmark), offer for sale with their components. Also on a recent Audioholics episode, he categorically lists the components in the audio chain that are most important to overall sound in terms of distortion, and guess what part of the chain is least important, that's right, cables. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIv79_NRASw
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as with most of us, the cables that I use in my system have evolved overtime. Each time I swapped cables, I felt there was an improvement in the sound. I wouldn’t say that it was a tremendous difference, but it was subtle but better. After I started swapping in Shunyata research power cords and then speaker cables, I felt that for my system there was real synergy and a distinct positive improvement in sound. I wouldn’t say that my system went from good to great as a result, but there was definitely an improvement that made the system sound closer to what I like. Then I started upgrading my Shunyata cables from Alpha‘s to Sigma‘s and there was a noticeable step up in sound quality. The same thing occurred when I started to swap out my interconnects for Shunyata Sigma interconnects. A noticeable but small improvement. The bottom line, each time I upgraded a cable, it added some benefit to the sound. Cumulatively, I was very pleased with the result. Weather spending all that money on cables was worth the improvement in the sound quality is a matter of personal preference. To me, it was. |
In 1995 I had the chance to cable my system with Transparent Reference. It was not a subtle difference! I tried the Super, the Ultra and the Reference all within a weeks time. you could point to the soundstage with the change of each set of cables and discern the difference each cable yielded. The reference gave the most improvement. It provided more separation of instruments and voice. The soundstage was wider. I could distinguish vocals that were muddy with other cables. Try to find the original series used! People hold onto them! Joe |
The cable upgrades I have made in my life were: from the stuff that came with a rack system to Monster (I din't notice any improvement, but that does not mean that there was none) then from Monster to RCA Kimber PBJ (hard to say what the improvement was because at this time I also went from an integrated JVC Dolby Prologic integrated amp to Cary's entry level push-pul tube amp and a B&K HT preamp then, after upgrading to ARC tubed monoblocks and a Cary preamp I went from the PBJ to balanced Kimber Silver Streak. With this "upgrade" I did hear a noticeable difference, particularly with the greater articulation of detail. But I wouldn't go so far as to type that it was like a new component upgrade, but it was noticeable and it was better. I've been going with the Silver Streak for around 26 years or so, and I'd love to listen to some other options, but I think there are other things I should spend money on before I get to playing with interconnects. However, one thing that I did do (experimentally) was to insert a pair of RCA PBJs in between the preamp and amp, while leaving the balanced Silver Streaks between the CDP and the pre. I don't think that I like the sound of that configuration as much as I liked the SS all the way through. I am just about to switch back.
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@sls883 will extend a demo,to you of infigo cables if you are interested as well |
@deep_333 o rn the infigo cables demo program. Would you like to,try something. No cost you only pay shipping back. |
Above a quality threshold for materials and deisgn/layup, improvements or just lateral moves, i.e., differences are miniscule even in the most resolving rooms + rigs even to a well trained listener. There is no such thing as "night and day". Spotting differences between a 200 dollar cable i have (a very special one from a home grown Chinese brand) and a 5000 dollar cable that was gifted to me is like pulling teeth. I have passed a blind test sufficient times for statistical significance. But, most of you will not, guaranteed. |
Last night, I swapped out a decent copper cable ($200) for the Black Cat Silverstar 88 cable going between my amp and preamp. It sounded good, but lacking a bit of clarity. Not like listening through a blanket, but maybe a thin sheet. Swapped the cables back and life is good again. Most people probably wouldn't even notice, but I know my system well and it was noticeable to me. |
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"Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction." (Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse , 1872) "The abdomen, the chest, and the brain will forever be shut from the intrusion of the wise and humane surgeon," (Sir John Eric Ericksen, British surgeon, appointed Surgeon-Extraordinary to Queen Victoria 1873) "The super computer is technologically impossible. It would take all of the water that flows over Niagara Falls to cool the heat generated by the number of vacuum tubes required." (Professor of Electrical Engineering, New York University) "There is no likelihood man can ever tap the power of the atom." (Robert Millikan, Nobel Prize in Physics, 1923) "Man will never reach the moon regardless of all future scientific advances." (Dr. Lee DeForest, Father of Radio & Grandfather of Television) "Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible!" (Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895) "The bomb will never go off. I speak as an expert in explosives." (Admiral William Leahy, re: US Atomic Bomb Project) "The difference between a ~$100 RCA and a $10,000 RCA is little to none at all (most of the improvement will be WELL below the audible range of humans). (crawfishdaddi, Dunning-Kruger Exemplar) When the steam locomotive came on the scene; the best (scientific) minds proclaimed, "The human body cannot survive speeds in excess of 35MPH." Until recently (21st Century); and the advent of the relatively new science of Fluid Dynamics, the best (scientific) minds involved in Aerodynamics, could not fathom how a bumblebee stays aloft. Often; Science has to catch up with the facts/phenomena of Nature and/or, "reality" (our universe). I haven't been in school since the 60's, but- at Case Institute of Technology; the Physics Prof always emphasized what we were studying was, "Electrical THEORY." He strongly made a point of the fact that no one had yet actually observed electrons (how they behave on the quantum level) and that only some things can really be called, "LAWS." (ie: Ohm, Kirchoff, Faraday) PERHAPS: that's changed in recent years and I missed it? |
@cleeds ... uh, ok? |
I support you in using cables and interconnects made by Transparent. I also use their power cords in order. Cables tend to color the sound for better or worse. This is a factual comment. There is considerable creativity in making cables. Transparent’s cables and the accompanying network box that’s attached to the cable which tends to adjust for impact on the sonic integrity along the harmonic range as impacted by cables. I like that. I also believe the more money you spend makes you feel better and clearly you can spend a ton of money on cables and interconnect. Its absurd how much you can spend in this area I also like the power isolator made by transparent. This is a company located in Maine and they seem to be nice people up there, very helpful and speaking to me about technical aspects of whatever it is they do. |
Unless there is a problem with your current cables. "upgrading" cables is more of a tweak to get the sound you are looking for. For me it has been mostly subtle changes. At times I can't even tell a difference. Most of my cables are not real high end. Only have a couple "expensive" cables. Well, when I changed power cords on my HT subwoofers, that made a big impact. Weirdly both subs were now pulling more power at idle over the OEM cords. Not sure they really sounded "better" but they had a bit more punch. |
ok.. so, I've been down this road a bit and my answer is a little nuanced: 1. There are technical considerations involved in cables that will absolutely make a difference in sound. For example, I got a new phonostage and ordered a new RCA cable for it. The phonostage arrived about 2 weeks before the cable, so I used a spare 10ft RCA I had lying around to test out my new piece of gear. I instantly noticed a thick veil over the sound like a wool blanket was draped over the speakers. Of course, I thought the problem was the new phonostage (this is after I broke it in for the recommended 30 hours). I was going back and forth with the manufacturer and looking at spending $$$ on NOS tubes to fix the sound when someone here on Agon suggested that it seemed like an impedance problem and that I should check the signal chain to make sure impedances were matched across the cart, phonostage and pre-amp. I ran this by the manufacturer and they said, "the impedance pairing across your gear is fine, but what cable are you using?" When I told them, they instantly said, "Oh! That's your problem right there!" Sure enough, once I swapped that super long cable out for the new one I ordered, the problem disappeared!! So, in conclusion: did swapping the cable out make a "dramatic" difference? Yes! Was it because of all of the nonsense claims by cable manufacturers about the special materials and proprietary shielding they use? Absolutely not. The improvement that @rennieboy mentioned with his Vandersteens is likely due to better impedance matching and not the "higher quality" of super expensive cables. 2. Cheap cables can cause issues like RF interference and bad connections. So swapping them out will make a dramatic difference. However, once you have a cable that is: 1. Well constructed 2. Well shielded and 3. Well terminated, you will get little to no improvement in sound quality by "upgrading" to super expensive cables. This experiment has been tried time and time again. There have been multiple blind listening tests. Electrical engineer audiophiles have analyzed this to death with frequency response measurements. And on and on and on. The difference between a cheap $5 RCA and a ~$100 RCA can be moderate to substantial. The difference between a ~$100 RCA and a $10,000 RCA is little to none at all (most of the improvement will be WELL below the audible range of humans).
Just my 2 cents... good luck! |
Given what you heard, how do you decide which is better? |
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Taking the question: "have you ever made a cable change that opened up your system to new heights?", my response has to be "too many to count." As a dealer for 40+ years, I have to admit that I had a little larger "toy box" than most to try different things. But, found "cables" to significantly improve the performance of components ranging from $99 to 5 figures. "HAVE CABLES EVER TAKEN YOUR SYSTEM FROM SOUNDING JUST OK TO SOUNDING GREAT? " Well, this would be a bit of a stretch when the system of interest is, say, "good" to "very good." All the stars would have to be in near alignment to begin with to achieve "greatness" with a cable change in my opinion. When referencing "cables" we need to define the broader scope of "signal transfer" between components and take into consideration, connector quality, termination methods, insulation (dialetric), etc. A simple upgrade in how cables are attached to their connectors can be clearly audible. So, "cables" involved a number of disciplines and technologies to make them "sound" the way they do. I’ll conclude that the largest, smack you upside the head differences have been when we replaced internal factory OEM wires with "audiophile grade" cables, paying very close attention to connection methods. Whatever the level above "night and day" is, we’ve arrived.
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I feel like anything we purchase if we are Lucky Enough for all the equipment to Jell together to give Us a sound that makes your hearing happy.. And my wife has sat by me with all these changes and hears nothing what I hear ..And few friends come over and say sounds good & clear ...But knowing the cost oof this equipment they would rather listen to music in a Pizza Shop and get same value from a song... Like me with Raven Audio and not leaving my home for all my listening between 3 Tube Amps ,their speakers 2 sets, all their cables other than USB Audioquest cable . Should I have gone out and brought home some other amp or speakers maybe..But probably would have made me more confused as to what I hear..So I was lucky enough for Raven Equipment to Jell and share some sounds of songs that just make me smile at age 73...And really maybe their is a USB cable that does not cost 1700 for 800 ..But I will not know that for I am done my testing of 4 cables and just sitting back and enjoying the music... Not to say I may look for few tubes to see if I can make a change down the road .. My only complaint is the unit does not have a balance built in for I know my hearing left and right is not equal.And moving the speakers in living room is a pain at times..But bottom line you hear what You Hear and wife or other look at you like your nuts..Enjoy the Music.. |
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In this hobby we're always attacking the weakest link. Often that's a component, but once the components have been upgraded the cables become worth a look. When i had a separate streamer and dac, the upgrade to a Tara RSC digital cable made a big difference. I had a good rca to my preamp. Once I upgraded to a much better streamer/dac it became worthwhile to upgrade the rca interconnect to my preamp. It further improved the sound by a large margin. Same for preamp to power amp, as well as speaker cables after other system upgrades. |
@asctim exactly. I’ve had system takes who jumps because of the very thing you speak of. |
I haven't heard an extreme improvement from a cable change. But I'm convinced it can happen on some systems, and not necessarily only the finest systems, but just ones with interesting matchings of speakers and amps, or other components where cable inductance, capacitance, or resistance can help the two components play together better. |
The only time I’ve heard a near "transformational" experience with a cable was (strangely) the old Zu Mobius headphone cable on Sennheiser HD650. I’ve tried a number of cables on those headpones, and many more cables on different headphone models. The Mobius/ / 650 was the largest change in sound, by far - and all of it "in the right direction" (that’s rare). It essentially notched the humble-classic HD650 up to a next level headphone. I’ve even had 4 different examples of the Mobius over years, and its impact was consistent (not a fluke). It's probably relevant that the Mobius was designed for that *specific* headphone, and the headpone needed some "help" out of the box (too dark). Beyond that I’ve certainly had a few cables I think make a "nice" impact, but nothing I can’t live without, honestly. And frankly, the "wow" impact you get from a new cable tends to diminish over time (except the Mobius, lol). The next biggest impact I’ve expreienced (down from Mobius) would be speaker cables, where I tend to like a good amount of solid silver - Audioquest Kilimanjaro and Wildwood being my favorites, so far. I generally LIKE the effect of silver cabling in my systems, but often the results are not continually additive - you can add too much and start to regress your system’s musical balance. That goes doubly (or triply) for tweaks, in general. A lot of times I’ve caught myself trying to make excuses for why I need to buy that next new cable lol. At the end of the day, it’s not a very per-dollar effective vector to increased long-term satisfaction. |
Like most responders here, I hear subtle but definite changes from cables, although not to the level that would make a good system sound bad or a bad system sound good. Since I have a box (or two) of cables around here, a change in cables is sometimes helpful to compliment a component change, subtly of course. |
Not dramatic. Subtle differences if any. I buy cables based on need - length, type of connection, build quality, reputation, reasonable price... not to change the sound of my system. Confirmation bias is real. I remember a specific instance where a while back I purchased an inexpensive cable to try and then bought a much more spendy cable that was one of the "it" cables. I put it in the system, and was able to easily switch back and forth between the less expensive cable in near real time. I thought the new cable was sounding better than the other and was quite pleased with myself. Some time later, I repeated the listening test and could not detect any significant difference between the two cables. Which isn't to say that I don't think cables impact sound, other instances have shown that they clearly can, but my experience is more that cheap cables can degrade sound, not that expensive cables magically make your system much better. |
When I first started 6 years ago with my first Tube Amp from Raven Audio , Dave Thomson told me one thing you will never stop looking for more detail out of your music ..And he told me about Streaming and told me you will stop using your CD’s .He was correct....So my first test was computer in another room and needed 16’ cable to run To DAC... I purchased a Staples 35 dollar cable and said wow a lot of unusual detail never heard would not say quality...So Best Buys and Audioquest Cables I started with 400 dollar cable what a difference .. Now I had no idea at this time I would be buying a 1700 dollar cable at end to make my ears happy from a USB cable ...I know the next was a Coffee Audioquest and much more quality and detail coming from the speakers ..So decided to try the Audioquest Carbon and just a little more detail and just touch more quality to my hearing that I would keep the Carbon over the Coffee Cable...But to someone else and their hearing it could be reversed..But never in beginning would I have thought 1700 for a cable ..But sound of music is why we are in this hobby and happy ears makes you smile when You hear old songs that you listened to for years and never heard instruments or detail ever before in the song... |
i am in general agreement that cable changes tend to be more subtle than major component changes as to sonic effect. However, if you went from bad cable or cables that were inappropriate for your system and taste to something that is better suited to you the difference can be quite dramatic. Even if a cable is well regarded and works well in other people's system, it can be well off from what is best for YOU. For example, if you prefer/need a warm sounding speaker cable, the top end Nordost cable will NOT be for you and if you switched to something like Audio Note Lexus cable, the difference will be very substantial and favorable. |
