Remember in the 80's one of dad's clients was a car audio installer in a posh commuter area- as a kid I was knocked out by his Porshe 911 with speakers in the headrests and being allowed to sit in it and rev the motor; still gives me a kick thinking about it.
Still running my 1999 BMW E36 coupe which had a Pioneer KEH-P9700R head unit with 12x multi disc changer in the boot, top pioneer speakers and crossovers; when the power amp died I added an Alpine V12 power amp in the boot and the separate DAB unit with a roof aerial- absolutely awesome sound at the time. Had a mic to attach to headrest and auto set up EQ and 2 remotes! Wouldn't swap it for anything 'modern'
When Jazz FM moved to DAB+ put a Kenwood in and sent the Pioneer off for repair- it's still sitting in the garage waiting poss to go in the campervan as it still sounds great and no evil touch screens like all modern cars seem to be cursed with |
Good post. In my daily driver, Corolla, I am finding that at 14 years old, the stock system is getting noisy, etc. I am thinking of replacing it. Issue is the speakers. Even 14 years ago you had to take the entire car apart to replace the factory stuff...pain in the butt. The head unit comes out in about 2 minutes...nutty.
In my C-2, my daughter wanted to play her music through the sound system. I bought a VERY expensive head unit that fits the car and has built-in amps. I put some speakers in the back, but the ones that supposedly fit the front do not. SO, I contacted the company, who I did business with in the 1980's, and found that the owner's daughter is now running it. We had a nice exchange, but she is doing nothing to fix the problems with her gear. SO, I took it upon myself as a former dealer and sometimes car stereo installer to see what I could do.
Today, I have the only factory A/C C-2 with front speakers that are where they should be, fit fine, sound fine (my daughter likes it; I don't always listen as I enjoy the sound of the car), and everything looks factory. Also, everything can be removed easily (for a C-2, anyway) and put back to factory in a very short time.
Best of both worlds, and was not all that hard to do once I figured out how to get those front speakers to fit correctly. Now, I have it if I want it, and the off knob works just fine as well.
As for the Corolla, well, we shall see...
Cheers! |
Not a bit. I have a few 70s cars. All the radios failed in the end.
I bought blanking plates.
I mostly listen to the radio in my modern car. Occasionally a CD, usually I take a pile of them for long continental trips. |
I've been into both home and car stereo for a very long time. I'm a bit surprised how many don't seem to care much about car stereo. Maybe that is because I do more long drives than your average Joe. I have probably listened to more music in my car than anywhere else.
When I buy a car I always look for the most basic stereo option. Then aftermarket upgrades are simpler. Many of the modern OEM upgrades are tougher to remove and IMO nearly every one sounds pretty poor. They use poor components, underpowered amps, and too many drivers. I've heard various Harmon Kardon and a few Mark Levinson OEM upgrades and while the latter ones were decent not nearly as good what a couple grand spent in an aftermarket system can provide.
For maybe $1,500 one can easily upgrade the amp and front speakers to get a huge improvement. I usually spend a tad more to do a bit of sound deadening, high quality 2 or 3 ways drivers, and a sub when I am feeling rich. Given how much music I listen to when driving it is a great use of $$ for me. Imaging is always tough of course (mainly due to available front tweeter positioning) and the fidelity in a car is very different (and not nearly as good) as what one can get at home.
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Noticed someone else mention Soundstream... In the mid 80's I had two Soundstream class A50's running MB-Quart coaxial front and back with a D100 powering the sub - also Soundstream cassette head unit with the adjustable azimuth control (same a the famous Nacamichi "Dragon" head unit). All KimberKable (isn't that crazy!). That system was awesome - for a late teen/early 20's guy in the Army.
Later, I replaced those 'fry-an-egg' class A's (honestly, if you touched them you'd loose skin) with high-current (labeled "cheater amps" because they double power down to 2ohms) Phoenix Gold MS/MQ-series. I've run those since early 90's and still do. Yes, they've been moved through several cars and trucks over the years. The most recent incarnation is setup like this:
- High-end Kenwood head unit to an active 4-way crossover
- Phoenix Gold MQ-430 (4-ch) running tweeters and mids in the front doors
- Phoenix Gold MS-275 (2-ch) running the 8-3/4" mid-bass also in the front doors
- Speakers are Morel 3-way separates (1990's version of the Elate TI-903)
- Orion HCCA-275G4 (another old-school "cheater" amp, last of the US-made Orion HCCAs and doubles power down to 0.5 ohms) driving a
- Stereo pair of 12" Image Dynamics in a custom sealed enclosure DIY'd to fit behind the rear seats of crew-cab truck.
- Massive amount of sound-deadening material throughout.
Audio-supremist can talk bad about car audio all they want, this system sounds amazing (even compared to various incarnations of my 2-ch home systems) and has given me such enjoyment for so many years. Morel drivers (at least the ones I've used) are something special.
It was actually the sound from this car audio system that lead me to open-baffle, when one day I realized how much better the sound was with the windows down (and air pressure was free to escape the inside of the door cavity). Now everything else in the 2-ch home system sounds like listening to speakers to me - like flipping a switch from live (open-baffle) to recorded (box speakers). The other aspect it taught me was the benefit of active crossovers for amp effectiveness and overabundant power for current stability and driver control.
All these years and I still marvel at the sound quality. |
Used to care more back in the days with separate drivers, amp, cassette deck.
After that all the cars i drove were leased ones so no room for experimentation.
Today my Giulletta has a decent factory installed unit with connectivity and that's fine for me.
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Best receiver I had was a alpine bought in mid 90’s after the clarion bit the dust. Had the tape deck for al,ost 20 years
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I recently replaced my stock car stereo and had an ARC Audio 6 channel amp/ 6 speaker active crossover/Sony head unit and a 10" sub placed in the passenger footwell. Best money I've ever spent.
It is MUCH more enjoyable than stock....Do it.
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I also have a Lexus with the Mark Levinson- sound only okay. Seems ML mostly known for their electronic components, not so much their speakers. Upgrade to Morel speakers $6k Yow! |
Put 20 years into making a living from car audio installations, 1970 to 1990. When folks would ask to hear my car stereo system, had to explain to them it sat in my living room and not in a car. High points, 1975 put a Kraco 8 track in a VW bug, 4 5 1/4 round speakers in doors and quarter panels and a 6x9 under the dash wired to both channels. Sat in the back on the I-10 freeway in Phoenix and couldn't hear the road noise. 1979 mounted two 10 inch woofers under the seat of a Toyota pickup, very good bass. Low points, refused to put any stereo in a Corvette. Corvette owners wouldn't buy the factory kit to shield the distributor. You could tune the engine via the stereo without the kit.
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I actually did upgrade my car stereo ones. Thirty years ago when my standard car stereo was stolen I decided to replace it with better Pioneer 5 disc CD changer and set of better rear speakers. At that time SQ upgrade was noticeable. Not sure if I would do something like that this days cause modern cars systems became extremely complicated and strict to any upgrades or changes. |
My Lexus came with a very good Harman Kardon system in it. I don’t think I can make it better. While it’s not in the same league as my home system, it’s very satisfying. I really enjoy streaming when I drive long distance. When I was younger, I probably would have taken it apart and try to tweak it, but now I don’t think I have the strength or the desire. It’s just good enough. |
It’s important enough. The Podcasts and Audible books are enjoyed during commutes. The smart phone is hooked to a Teac headphone amp then to the car head unit. Sounds pretty good. |
Only in the car. I enjoy Using Plex app to stream my music via CarPlay with album set up on the dash. Didn’t have that as a kid. Just radio. Then cassettes then CDs. Why should cars be any different? Especially if you spend time there or on a road trip etc. Does it sound as good as at home? No. Then there is that noise floor. But so what? A good car stereo is always a treat compared to the alternative. My current Acura system is the best I’ve had from a dealer but I had some nice ones put in in the past. Nakamichi with MB Quart system in a Toyota 4Runner was dynamite. |
Typically I only buy nice sports cars (Audi, BMW, Porsche, Maserati), I keep the factory radio and upgrade the amp and mid/tweeter, sound deaden the doors and rear deck. A lot of bang for the buck if you know what to buy. I like Alpine and Pioneer. |
I like my Toyota Rav4 18.
Wish I can improve that awful sound.
Any ideas?
Thanks |
If money is not a constraint, Emphatically yes. Just on a different scale. We all know that improving sound in any system is an exponential adventure. That said, I love home theater as well. After you blow $100K on Pass Labs, Focal Maestros, an elaborate streaming system, ASC tubetraps, etc... what's $8K on a great car stereo or $50K on an amazing 15.4 atmos home theater system. I get more enjoyment out of the $8K car stereo than I would trying to improve the $100K 2ch setup. Trying to improve that rig would take $30K or more to notice a difference.
I enjoy good sound everywhere. My AMG had Burmester... complete crap. My RAM TRX had HK.. also crap. I have heard the Ford B&O... same thing, crap.
Give me some Focal KRX3s, Audison BitOne processors, decent amps, JL Audio 10w6v3 subs... game changer while waiting in traffic or just driving to work. I swap every factory system out.
I get the comment about listening to the engine and sometimes I do enjoy the sound sound of a blown 702hp hemi in the TRX. Other times, I want a great sound (for a car environment). |
OP, I had always felt the same as you; whatever was stock was good enough and usually not all that bad. Until one year ago when we bought the new 2020 Subaru Outback Onyx edition. Fantastic suv with incredible performance in snow and icy conditions and rough terrain. A tremendous amount of technology is used in the vehicle to the point that it is annoying at times with its excess of electronic “smart” features. I did not even bother testing the audio system on the assumption that it would be more than “good enough”. Big mistake. It is the worst sounding car audio system that I have ever heard. Tinny and harsh sounding; almost unbearable to listen to. Go figure. To add insult to injury, the “upgraded” audio system is not retrofittable. Live and learn. |
Quad 8 Track.
6x9 coax speakers with horns, in the rear.
4 inch coax in the front doors.
Riders on the storm, whats not to love ?. |
Car audio is like Home Theater: a great way to burn money that could have been spent on your stereo, where you would at least have some really good sound to show for it. Exactly this. About a decade ago I was really into car stereo. Kitted my Lincoln with TOTL Pioneer deck, Kappa component speakers, 200wpc 4ch Infinity amp, 2700w rms Soundstream mono amp driving 2 Audiopipe 15” subs mounted in an 8ft^3 ported enclosure, powered by a 220a alternator, 0ga power cables, and all manner of capacitors and Optima batteries. It was DISGUSTING. The bass made a person literally feel like they were going to vomit, and NO ONE ever made the mistake of riding with me twice. Looking back, it’s embarrassing, like, “Wtf was I thinking?!” My current car has a stock system, not even remotely inclined to upgrade it. Just as soon throw that money at my main system. Besides, it’s not like anything I put in my car is going to scratch the itch I have anyway. |
I have 2 cars that I drive. One is a Mercedes E400 that has a delightful sound system. The other is an Austin Healey Bugeye who sound system is a two barrel carb on a 948 engine into a very minimal muffler, always driven top down in Georgia. It makes the Best sound!! |
I like audio in the car and millercarbon is right. Great way to burn money- buying the top audio package from the oem or aftermarket.
And I won’t pay for a performance exhaust unless it reduces weight. |
8 years ago, Mazda lost a sale of a CX9 because the stereo sounded crap and had engine noise piped in for "zoom zoom." |
When I had my VW GTI’s in the late 80’s and early 90’s I changed stereos and speakers quite often. With those cars it was actually quite easy to do. My current car is just too complicated and difficult to do myself anymore. I have an infinity system in my car and it is far less than special. Would love to upgrade it but ohlala hit the nail on the head for me. |
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My infiniti came with a bose system that was horrific. I can drive 25k a year and appreciate good sound. A friend who is an expert delved into it with me. $60k car but not a single tweeter in the whole system. We then pulled the amp, which must have amounted to 20 watts. Bose is really a joke using 2 ohm speaker to boost output.
The short of it: 90k miles later and I've been very happy. We did massive surgery removing all 4 "twiddlers" and installed high end Seas tweeters. Rewired the whole system (would you believe the entire back end of the car was wired mono?), installed 9 channels of Alpine amplification and a Rockford processor. It sounds great now. It will never be able to get a penny out of this if I sell the car. So I guess I'll drive it into the ground.
I will never buy a car with Bose again. What's that saying...BOSE BLOWS. |
Though my BMWs had pretty good audio, I've never owned genuinely first rate car audio gear. I also have to say that if I ever heard truly first rate audio in somebody's car/SUV etc., I can't remember it. Usually, when somebody, like a car salesman or my hippie era VW Van driving buds, wanted to impress me with the audio they'd just crank the volume to Earsplitting Plus. I also have to say that I like hearing traffic noise when I drive. It keeps me more plugged in to what's happening on the road. |
Acura's had the Elliot Scheiner (collaborated) Panasonic 5.1 DVD-Audio player with surround sound (5.1) capability. I bought my car in 2009 and DVD-Audio's soon after became obsolete. They weren't around for a long time, but I managed to get most of the popular (rock) out-of-print titles through Ebay and other similar venues. The DVD player also played DTS 5.1 format. To this day, the DVD-Audio of Hotel California and Rumors (96 khz/24 bit) in my car sounds better than my two channel analog system - it's that good (the enclosed space in the car obviously helps, but nonetheless the sound is magnificent). |
The good thing about car audio is that it runs off the battery. In my last car, Toyota Corolla, I installed a Kenwood CD player, Audiobahn amp and JBL rear speakers. It was great for rock and that’s all I listen to while I’m driving. Now I own a Kia SUV and the factory stereo is just OK though I’ve been listening to The Faces ‘A Nod...and The Rolling Stones ‘Exile on Main Street’ constantly. Point being, it’s more about driving than listening and I don’t use my iPhone while I’m driving.
I’d like to install an aftermarket amp, CD player and speakers but there’s a hundred things that take a higher priority, including paying attention to the road. |
My Audi TTS has Bang and Olufsen. The previous iteration had Bose.
I have to say the Bose was a better sounding system.
The B&O has less bass and requires high resolution streaming to sound decent.
I really love listening to music while driving, but the B&O has me listening to podcasts more than music nowadays.
Bob
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Not really. I usually stream in my car, and most often than not, don’t listen to music except for longer trips, then I stream Tidal.
I used to care about the sound quality in my car, but now, I know it can never compare to my home system, so it’s more an afterthought than a challenge to tackle and make better. I just live with what the car came with. Not bad, but far from great. So be it. |
No really.
As J Gordon Holt once wrote in Stereophile, "Audio in a car is like Arpege in a glue factory."
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I was in high school during the pinnacle of aftermarket car audio and enjoyed it. Now auto manufactures have made that less accessible with the computer integration and their options are generally lackluster. I do not do aftermarket because I do not want to risk problems associated with panel removal with my car that I prize. |
Good timing for this post. The other afternoon driving through the canyon heading home & Stairway To Heaven came on. 2020 Ram with really good stock sound system. I cranked the piss outa it. I was digging the drive, song & day. Everything fell into place.
Usually have the sound off. But when your in the mood, it's awesome.
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I went for the Burneiuster upgrade in my Porsche sports car....much prefer the sound of the engine turning at 6K |
If your car is decent enough, you wont need a radio. Just saying. |
Back in the early 90’s, I had a very high end system in my car, all installed by me. I had 4 Soundstream amps which was one of the best brands at the time, all ADS separate speakers, 4 10 inch subs, an Audio Control 20 band EQ, top of the line Kenwood CD changer, etc. I loved the system until Christmas night, 1991 when my car was stolen out of my driveway. My very expensive car alarm never went off. Car was found 15 days later, all the audio components taken out, tires and rims gone. Car was sitting on 4 milk crates in front of a housing project.
The police put over a dozen parking tickets on the car windshield yet no one checked to see if the car was reported stolen. The thieves even stole my dirty air cleaner element and gas cap. Car was a total loss and I only had liability on the car as it was long paid off. I lost every cent. Got smart and got back into high end audio in the home.
My new SUV has some high end Infinity system in it and I never listen to it. I find music in the car now distracting to me. Oh, the Infinity system isn’t that great either. |
I bought a Lexus with the Mark Levinson system option. Designed into the car. I would not modify... but then cars aren’t important to me. |
If you're a tube fan with your home gear, this is what you do https://milbert.com/Get some nice speakers thru active crossovers and you're driving a set of great headphones. |
Yes have Mark Levinson system in my car. |
I had a really nice well tuned system in my car about 20 or so years ago and it was a lot of fun and I enjoyed it a lot. It's a different experience, much as listening with headphones can be a lot of fun, but not the same as a nice two channel system in a good room.
With a car system, the room is no longer an issue, which is both good and bad - no room for proper placement and soundstaging, but it can be a very immersive and tactile experience.
It's not something I would spend a ton of money on at this point in my life. My car came with a very satisfactory system and I've put a decent system in my truck, but nothing like what I had before.
During "normal" times I typically drive close to 30,000 miles a year. I love music. Why not spend that time doing something I enjoy, because I certainly don't enjoy the driving part. |
Car audio is like Home Theater: a great way to burn money that could have been spent on your stereo, where you would at least have some really good sound to show for it.
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