Do Audiophiles usually keep the gain of the digital source at around 80%?

Yes to trying RCAs in place of XLRs and bypassing the volume control on the Eversolo to see if that helps.  Also wondering if there is an impedance mismatch between your preamp and your amplifier.  The problem sounds like it might be more involved than just the gain out of the streamer.

kn

@sns  - I’m afraid it’s YOU who are incorrect. @lanx0003 is correct. I owned an A8, and it DOES have a ’proper’ analogue volume control circuit, and it’s VERY good.

@daveteauk 

Well... Actually, the a8 has a digitally-controlled, relay-switched, resistor-ladder volume control. Here you can scroll to a hi-res view of said VC in situ.

It’s presumably controlled by an Arduino-like processor that also controls the OLED display and such. 

So, no, it’s not a ’proper’ analogue volume control circuit in the sense that when you turn the A8’s volume knob you’re still spinning a cheap digital encoder like a $99 Topping. Encoders have a deplorable feel that is out of place with gear with high-end pretensions.

BUT! Does that affect sound quality? Well, probably not, because as you otherwise correctly pointed out, components in the signal path are indeed analog (namely relays and SMT resistors).

There’s kind of a problem, though.

As the picture shows, Eversolo use an array of 16 relays to switch between resistor pairs. Relays are DPDT (double pole double throw), so each relay contains 4 discrete switches, operable in pairs. 16 x 4 = 64 volume positions, which does provide excellent granularity.

These relays are Omron G6K series, a common general- and industrial-purpose relay that costs about a buck in quantity. Its datasheet can be found here for your perusing pleasure.

G6K relays are coil-operated and have aluminum contacts. They generate EMI, unlike a proper mechanical resistor-array attenuator that doesn’t generate any because the switching is mechanical and the energy necessary to operate the switches is provided by your hand. Not to mention that mechanical attenuators impart a lovely, substantial feel to the volume control. Such things matter to some folks, including myself. 

Anyway, it’s not clear why anyone would want sixteen mechanical relays clicking in their signal path?

On the flip side, the cost of a real resistor-ladder attenuator can easily exceed the price of the entire Eversolo A8. So there’s that. 

In summary, the A8’s volume control is definitely a step above the usual $2 junk chip found in low-end chifi and AVRs from Costco, but it does not come close to analog state of the art.

According to one video, it looks like there is a setting to disable the preamp section of the Eversolo.  This is what is needed to use the Mac pre.

@sns - I'm afraid it's YOU who are incorrect. lanx00003 is correct. I owned an A8, and it DOES have a 'proper' analogue volume control circuit, and it's VERY good. I tried it direct into my Threshold S300, bypassing my Audio Research Reference 3, and it was almost as good, which was a great surprise. It was so good that I thought that the pre-amp in the (twice the price) A10 must be better, so I thought I may be able to ditch the Ref3 with a purchase of the beautiful (IMO) A10, so I bought one. It's still not as good overall as the Ref3, so it's staying.

dmann777 - You could try the A8 direct into your power-amp, but it would depend on how many sources you need to switch, to determine if that's an option for you.

You must set your A8 to volume pass through, so you are not using the pre inside it, as, if you do, you are now using TWO pre-amps in line with each other! = not a good idea. So set the A8 volume at 100% and deal with other issues. Maybe the -3db thing, which is easily implemented in the A8, will help, but using RCA may be the answer to reduce possibly overdriving your pre. There is, generally speaking, no sonic advantage to using XLR unless you need to use very long cables.

If the dac has a proper quality attenuator rather than adjusting volume in the digital domain there is nothing to be gained from a pre unless it has digital input substituting for the entire analogue stage of the Dac. I have yet to hear a non impedance based argument to the contrary and impedance is a non issue in 90%+ of all cases

@devinplombier One thing we can agree on, I think, is that whether standalone or integrated to an amp or to a DAC, a preamp or preamp stage is always involved.

The quality 'gain' stage (or buffer) in Harmony micro Dac I was referring to earlier is NOT a preamp section, rather a 'voltage' gain stage serving two purposes: increase of voltage to line level and impedance matching.  It does not have the volume control to be qualified as a preamp section.  However, it drives my amp pretty well.  The 32bit digital volume control from Wiim Ultra renders no resolution loss, transparent sounding even down to low level.

at the risk of being labeled a VC snob, I am going to have to respectfully push back against the notion that a digital volume control, even a 32-bit one, is an acceptable choice in any but value-conscious devices.

I wouldn't call it snobbery, but there's definitely prejudice involved. I did a simple comparison between the digital volume control on the WiiM Ultra and the 64-step relay analog volume control on the highly praised Schiit Saga 2. At normal listening levels (60–65 dBA), the sound quality was nearly indistinguishable—both were detailed and transparent. However, at lower volumes around 45 dBA, I actually preferred the digital volume control. It delivered articulate bass and clear treble, while the analog counterpart sounded a bit muddy. You might argue that the Saga 2 is only mid-end and that a high-end preamp would perform better. But that’s precisely the point of this comparison: I was able to get better sound at low volume from a device like the WiiM Ultra, which is priced similarly to the budget-friendly Saga 2—whereas achieving the same low-volume performance with an analog preamp might require spending significantly more ($$ or even $$$).  Note that the soundstage shrinks in both scenarios—there's no clear winner in either case.

@sns  DMP-A8 features an R2R (resistor-to-resistor) volume control. This R2R (Resistor to Resistor) network, implemented with precision resistors and relays, is part of the DMP-A8’s fully balanced analog preamplifier section.  This says in the manual.  Where did you see that its volume control is in digital domain?  Did you actually own A8?

@lanx0003 

One thing we can agree on, I think, is that whether standalone or integrated to an amp or to a DAC, a preamp or preamp stage is always involved.

Sound quality notwithstanding, I have analog sources I need to switch, and I prefer discrete components performing single functions in my system; and finally, with very few exceptions, the best preamps are separates.

So, while a separate preamp makes the most sense for my own use case, that’s all preferences and there is no right or wrong answer.

Now I am sure some DACs are equipped with decent preamp stages, and I certainly don’t know every one of them, but I am going to have difficulty accepting that the vast majority of them are in the same league as high-end separates.

Finally, at the risk of being labeled a VC snob, I am going to have to respectfully push back against the notion that a digital volume control, even a 32-bit one, is an acceptable choice in any but value-conscious devices. Neither is a $15 Blue Velvet, by the way, despite the fact that those are original equipment in so many almost-high-end preamps selling for $2000 or $3000 or even more 

Obviously the A8 has analog outputs because it's a dac/streamer, the volume control is in digital realm, it does NOT function as a pre.

The generalization of pre's as superfluous because it simply adds distortion, reduces dynamics, sweetens sound is absolutely ridiculous. I'm sure there are many here with quality preamps that find them indispensable. 

You don’t necessarily need a preamp, and I don’t wish to be contentious on this subject. However, a DAC with a well-designed gain stage—like the discrete Class A output stage in Harmony Micro DAC—can drive an amplifier beautifully. I used to be in the preamp camp for a while, but after getting a quality DAC like this, I’m switching back to the “no preamp is the best preamp” camp.

Inserting a good preamp in the chain can often sweeten the sound and augment the soundstage, but I also notice a slight loss in dynamics. I have actually mitigated that through the source by adding a DDC and good cabling. I believe the source dominates the quality of the signal chain, rather than the backend. This may contradict your statement, but I am simply sharing my experience.

There are two things here. 

1. DACs capable of directly driving power amps obviously incorporate some kind of line stage (preamp) circuitry, allowing them to output the voltage required to do so. Without it, they wouldn't be able to drive a power amp any more than a turntable or a CD player can.

Obviously, the quality of that preamp section will vary from one DAC to another.

2. The position that preamps are obsolete and do nothing other than creating distortions is commonly shared amongst SINAD fanboys on ASR.

Audiophiles, however, almost universally agree that a high-end pre is an indispensable part of a well-thought out system.

If my limited experience in the matter is worth anything, I drove my monoblock amps with a DAC for several weeks while I was refurbishing my Krell pre. When the pre was returned to service, and the DAC moved behind it where it belongs, the sound quality improvement was very much significant.

I'm in the camp of those who believe that a great pre is a necessity. I also believe that a system's sound signature should be determined by the pre + amps + speakers system core, and that digital sources have no role to play in it. Just be neutral. You know what they say about too many cooks in the kitchen.

... This not correct. The Eversolo doesn’t really have a preamp function, it only has digital volume control, you need analog volume control in order to be considered a preamp, and even then it would only be a passive device. You absolutely need to run the Eversolo at 100% with pass through volume control to extract maximum sound quality. 

This is absolutely incorrect statements.  A lot of misinformation floating here and people need to do their homework before writing...

The DMP-A8 has a fully balanced analog preamplifier section complete with R2R volume control and a pair each of RCA and XLR inputs. That makes it a more complete no-compromise integrated solution in which users just add power amp or active speakers and control everything from the Eversolo itself, with no outboard preamplifier needed. 

In addition, more and more players like Wiim Ultra use 32 bit for digital volume control.  Unless you attenuate volume more than, say, 50dB, you are free of negative consequence of bit-depth truncation for high-rez music listening.  There are more than enough headroom to control volume digitally with no audible degradation even down to very low levels.

@devin666 

Care to offer a texhnical explanation? Is the pre inventing stuff that wasn’t transferred from the DAC? My argument is based on the fact that at a given output voltage and impedance of the DAC all you need is an attenuator. Any additional circuit will by definition add distortion or additional noise components.

@drmuso , CD standard calls for 2 V ouput from RCA, HDCD standard calls for 2.2 V output from RCA. Balanced XLR ouput doubles that. Depending on the DAC's bit count,voltage and impedance outputs, included volume control, available switching capabilities, and the amplifiers input impedance and input sensitivity (for which there doesn't seem to have followed standards) one might be able to forgo the line stage of a preamp.

@richardbrand

ReplayGain in Eversolo, WiiM or other streamers is commonly implemented via metadata (i.e., data about the audio data), not through destructive or lossy digital processing. It works by analyzing the audio file and storing the recommended gain and peak levels as metadata tags. A compatible player then reads this metadata and adjusts the playback volume accordingly. The original audio data remains intact.

I recently read in an old Stereophile magazine that output voltages over 4v are apt to overload preamps, yet 4.2v seems to be a current standard output for DACs.  Why are they doing that?  Is it just to boost their S/N ratio specs?

BTW: absent serious but rare impedance mismatches all that a pre adds is more distortion/ colouring.

It sounds like your experience may be limited to budget preamps. I would advise auditioning high-end units. An excellent, thoughtfully chosen pre that synergizes well with your system has infinitely more impact on sound quality than $20,000 worth of tweaks.

In most instances the DAC has sufficient gain and sufficiently low impedance to drive the power amp through a pot. InnuOS has the server recommended at 100% which has nothing to do with the question. It is the DAC’s output section that matters. BTW: absent serious but rare impedance mismatches all that a pre adds is more distortion/ colouring.

The answer for me, it depends on the system synergy and the Voltage drive of the pre-amp to power-amp. Using my LTA preamp, when connected to the XA-25 driving the Falcon Gold Badge, it's normally at 50%, but when I have the X150.5 with a voltage driver pre, that sets the volume to 40%. 

BUT I have never noticed the sound getting "thin" as the volume setting is increased. To me it EVERYTHING gets louder until my ears cannot take it anymore.

As expected, if the recording is bad (for all the wrong reasons) YMMV.

but a good recording, be it streaming or Vinyl, the settings above is my DeFacto standard,

sometimes, I would pop it up another 20 to 30 DB to just my blood pressure up :)

Most of my DACs have had a fixed analog out.    The few that did were set to fixed or vol was at 0 dB

I'll always use a preamp so I am likely to buy a DAC with no preamp function.  I have had a few with volume,  the NAD M51 DAC had one , it was actually pretty good.  

I keep The setting at 75% from the digital source because I don’t want to blow my head apart in case the signal is too loud when I turn on the system.

Why do people use the term gain mistakenly when they talk about volume settings? Gain is different from volume.

dman777 OP

. . . wouldn’t it be better to use the XLR for the better quality and use the -3db trick?

No.  XLR is not automatically better than RCA.    Many uber-expensive components have RCA only.  The talented engineers designed the circuitry that way on purpose.   (Example)

Each brand has its own design philosophy.  

- - - 

There’s plenty of confusion about:

- Analog: RCA - Single-Ended vs XLR - Fully-balanced.

- Digital:  RCA - S/PDIF (75 ohm) vs XLR - AES/EBU (110 ohm).

The above are discussed thoroughly in the Audiogon archives.

- - -

Bottom line:  Get rid of distortion.  Otherwise, it's not high fidelity.

We already have 

Paul McGowen made a similar point (-3dB attenuation at the DAC) in his June 19, 2025 "Ask Paul" video.

Also, Dmann777 introduced the intriguing idea of whether this might be an XLR vs. RCA cable question. A decade ago, Mark O’Brian at Rogue Audio suggested to me that under certain circumstances using RCA outputs rather than XLR might be better. More recently, Galen Gareis of Iconoclast Cables was clear in an Iconoclast forum that IF there was no noise or hum and no more than 3-5’ cable lengths, RCA cables are the way to go based on science. I wonder if the digital clipping being discussed is another reason.

I am not a tech, so I hope others -smarter than I about this- will jump in.

100%, RCA out (BlackIce Tube DAC)

clio09 has succinctly explained the issue and solution, go with the RCA, otherwise you need to change out other components. 4V outputs on dac XLR is typical by the way. This issue points to why its important to check specs prior to purchase of components.

Let’s stick to the issue. Someone was insulting on 07-22-2025 at 11:12pm. We are here to interact with ideas. No need to get personal. Critique a comment or idea, not a person.

@dman777 Your digital source with balanced out has 4.2V output, your preamp 15 dB gain, and your amp is 1.4V sensitive which translates to 31 dB gain. Quite simply you have too much gain and as a result need to find a way to attenuate that gain. As @barts mentioned using the RCA outputs on the digital source(2V output)  and possibly throughout the chain may be the solution. It would be ideal to run the volume on the digital source wide open (100%) and then be able to have more control over the preamps volume control. 

@dman777 

Don't mess around in the digital domain, set it at 100% and forget it.  Switch to RCA cables, I seriously doubt you'll hear any degradation of quality.  Sounds to  me like you're over driving your speakers.

As an added bonus the volume control on the Mac will have more latitude of movement.  In other words, you'll have to move the knob further, so you get a finer adjustment.  Win-Win.

Regards,

barts

@saugertiesbob This not correct. The Eversolo doesn't really have a preamp function, it only has digital volume control, you need analog volume control in order to be considered a preamp, and even then it would only be a passive device. You absolutely need to run the Eversolo at 100% with pass through volume control to extract maximum sound quality. 

I don't understand why you have clipping,  distortion  issues in the first place. I've never had an issue with gain using XLR and 100% volume with chip or R2R dacs, this with active pre with dual transformer volume control. That Mac sure must be sensitive to gain to have that issue, not good.

It is possible to have lossless digital gain control. Audio DAWs use 32 bit floating point signal processing to achieve this when mixing.

Most definitely, but this thread is about budget digital and YouTube videos.

@steakster wouldn't it be better to use the XLR for the better quality and use the -3db trick?

It is possible to have lossless digital gain control. Audio DAWs use 32 bit floating point signal processing to achieve this when mixing.

your post is confusing. I own the eversolo DMPA6 and Mac gear as well as a Lumin P1 - which can also be used as a Pre Dac. 

The Eversolo can be used as a pre amp with a volume control and can be hooked up directly to an amplifier. Use the volume on the eversolo just like you would on any other pre amp. It can also be run into a pre amp that is attached to your amps. In this set up up you can either have the eversolo volume locked and set as "fixed" in which case you use your pre amp volume knob to control volume, or you can leave the eversolo volume as variable and you'd be able to change volume both on the eversolo and or the pre amp (no real purpose to having it set up this way though). There's no distortion with the eversolo or any DAC pre amp when used even up to 100%. All you'll notice is that your main volume setting on your preamp may be set a little lower than usual to make the same volume- again, with no distortion. 

Y'all need to learn gainstaging. And if any of your gear has a bit-stripping digital volume control, take it out back and put it out of its misery.

My wavelet 2 a preamp dsp recommends to keep it below 85% and maybe that's the way the engineer designed it.legacy audio valor.yes experiment with your system find what sounds best to you.enjoy the science.

Good thing the senile dutchman revealed to Audiophiles that doubling the input voltage could cause clipping. Who wudda thunk?

OP:   You might want to revisit my previous post.   According to these Eversolo 8 specifications - the XLR output is 4.2 volts.  The RCA output is 2.1 volts.       

Hans says this difference in voltage may cause clipping,  Cue up Hans’ video here - 8 min. 43 sec - 9 min. 29 sec.   This is why RCA might be better than XLR for this particular issue.   

If using the RCA output remedies up the clipping issue, set the digital volume at 100% - as everybody suggests. 

My Townshend Allegri Reference mk2 passive preamp has taken care of the problem with preamps volume having to be set around 9am when the digital source is set at 100%.

Now my volume is set between noon and 3pm on the Townshend which is ideal.

@foggyus91 

Hans touched on this 2 years ago.  And Here is the followup video

 

https://youtu.be/gXYCrvUPJY4?si=L7QByhXw-DGVIco6

https://youtu.be/yhwNiCt-Kiw?si=A_9yfYy01BqpVr_Q

I watch his videos, thanks. It seems to be that a -3db would be the way to avoid clipping. That's about 70% on the Eversolo volume I believe after asking Gemini AI. 

Digital gain at 100% and preamp gain 30-50% is generally the ideal operating range but at 60-70 DB there should be no audible distortion in a properly configured system. 

@lanx0003 

I believe the A8 supports ReplayGain, allowing you to apply it to individual tracks or entire albums. ReplayGain doesn’t involve any re-encoding or lossy digital processing—it’s simply like having a servant or robot adjust the playback volume for you.

If the gain is applied in the digital domain, the digital calculations will be ’lossy’ because not all fractional numbers can be represented digitally by a finite number of bits.  To give a decimal example, the fraction one-third requires an infinite number of decimal places to be represented exactly.  If only a fixed number of places is available, there will be rounding errors.  It is far worse if the calculations have to be done with whole numbers, as is common in digital audio!

Now if your servant or robot is twiddling an analogue volume knob via a motor, this consideration does not apply.  I find this scenario unlikely, although I have enjoyed Denon components with a remotely controlled volume knob.

For what it is worth, the term gain only makes sense once the signal is analogue.  By convention, digital conversion to analogue includes amplification to produce consumer line-level analogue outputs - about 1-Volt.

Sneaky manufacturers like to lift this output level because when doing A / B comparisons, louder almost always sounds better.  The corollary is that this can overload a pre-amplifier's input!

+1 for 100%

Only digital components meant to drive a power amp directly (no preamp needed) have a volume control.

In most cases that digital volume control is cheap trash. The more you turn it down the worse it sounds, hence the advice to keep it at full volume all the time so it’s essentially not being used (remember these are attenuators, so the more they attenuate the sound the more impact on sound quality they have).

The downside of keeping the VC at 100% when you do use a pre is that these components have a LOT of gain because, well, they’re designed to work without a pre! So, as you’ve observed, you need to turn your pre’s volume way down compared to other sources.

If you’re going to use a good pre, which is highly recommended, then you’re going to control volume at the pre, so that upstream VCs are not needed; so, digital components that have one should be avoided.

Have you tried bypassing the McIntosh and use the a8 As the preamp. 

I meant Innuos.

100 %

Recommended by Qobuz.

100% digital outputs goes to my preamp (ARC DAC... see my virtual system). It is best to have no attenuation in the digital domain if it is an option with your DAC. Then my preamp operates between 20 and 30% max.

1) Does the Eversolo feed 🡢 the McIntosh preamp which feeds 🡢 the Moon amp?

2) One possibility is explained - here - @ 8 min. 48 sec.  If so, use the RCA out instead of XLR out.

I believe the A8 supports ReplayGain, allowing you to apply it to individual tracks or entire albums. ReplayGain doesn't involve any re-encoding or lossy digital processing—it's simply like having a servant or robot adjust the playback volume for you.