Decware Sarah 300B Amp?

I just cancelled my Sarah order after 1.5 years of waiting.  Kept an eye on the watchlist and the wait kept extending.  Latest estimate by calculation was 3.5 year total wait time.  Nuts.  My needs changed so I moved on. I was fortunate to have placed the order over the phone when they were still making verbal pledges to refund down payment, which they honored (minus a $35 fee for whatever).  I have owned three brand new Decware amps in the past - enjoyed all of them.  Time moves on; no more for me given the wait.  Too much other great gear out there that is readily available.  

@tksteingraber 

Both amps get positive reviews and are comparably priced but have a different presentation.

@tksteingraber Sure!

The Dynaco ST35 is a very nice circuit design. The amp at the link is new and a kit. But Dynaco made this amp decades ago and so vintage units can be found; if properly refurbished they'll give any SET a run for the money. Dynaco also made the SCA35 which used the same output transformers and similar power amp circuit as an integrated amp with MM phono section and tone controls. Again, properly refurbished they are extremely musical.

These amps are all class A; when you are comparing any SET to any PP amp, at the very least try to level the playing field a bit by making sure the PP amp is also class A (all SETs are class A).

There are a good number of amps using the EL84; The Modjesky RM10 is rumored to be back in production. Manley has been making EL84 amps for years if not decades.

I've not been able to find any amps using the 6AQ5, but if they are out there, in class A they will make about 10 Watts.

There's at least one newer entry that is at the right price point that uses EL95s (so is 5 Watts/channel).

@atmasphere  Budget would be a concern for me….Any PP in the $4000-$5000 price range similar to Sarah?

@bluethinker Why do you want an SET? There are Push-pull class A amps that are just as musical and involving, if not more so. Almost any of them would have wider bandwidth at either end of the spectrum. 

I don't think anyone looking at or owning 300B SET amps are looking for huge power.  

Good for background music, about it. Flea watt amp. I’ll take my bridged 300 watt per channel amps,continuous, with monster reserve power over a flea watt amp any day of the week.

Recently did a little experiment using two Nad c268’s bridged, driving my tannoy eatons. I used a music hall tubed headphone amp as my preamp as it’s equipped with pre-outs. I connected it to the amps. All I can say is I’m still picking my jaw up from the floor. Just a relatively cheap experiment with astonishingly good results. Talk about pressurizing a room, wow. And this was just playing a few cassette tapes! One in particular, a mazzy star so now that I may see test pressing cassette/promo. It sounded like reel to reel. Played on a cheap 1980’s Toshiba metal tape deck. Even when playing a classical music piece with timpani on my magnum dynalab tuner through this set up, at low volume mind you, you could feel the hits. Just crazy. Speakers 89 dB, power chords, 3 wireworld Electra, interconnects atlas element rca and mezza xlr. Audioquest Niagara 1200 conditioner and furman pst-8. AQ Edison receptacle and dedicated 20 amp circuit. Room 14×16 appx. Opens to another area of same room, no left wall, no room treatments with mix of soft and hard furnishings, wall to wall carpet, cement floors and walls, some walls interior with studs and drywall. I typically use far more expensive equipment such as accuphase and sugden etc, but these cheap class d Nad’s in bridged mode driven by a tubed preamp ( a headphone amp to boot!) are something to behold. All just my own opinion, but I know what I heard. I figured what the heck, if it does not work out I'll just return the amps, no biggie. However, they are not going back!.

@oddiofyl does sound a bit towards insanity. When I ordered my amp I was told by Decware it was about a 1 year wait. Thought that’s not too bad I can wait. Well it took over 2 years but I don’t regret it one bit. Fantastic sounding amp to me. Canceling and losing the deposit on the amp made no sense knowing after it arrives if I am not happy I can easily sell it for the price I paid. No risk purchase in my mind. Would I buy another Decware product? No way with that ambiguous 4 year wait. Majority of their orders are the low cost 2 watt amps which require low deposits. I think they should separate their products production and have wait times by model/model grouping.  Allow the more expensive amps to be produced independent of the entry level amps. But….not my circus.

I’ve heard nothing but good things about Decware amps, but I’ve got to wonder how much of that admiration comes from the exclusivity due to their wait times.

If you could order one from them and get them in a week, would they still be so revered?

As a Decware owner, not the Sarah, they do make some fantastic sounding amplifiers.  Their waitlist is crazy-long now, but occasionally used pieces come up for sale. Due to that, the secondary market prices are basically the same as new prices. That can be a good thing if you don’t like losing money on gear. 

can't say enough good things about Decware and Steve. Great company and great products. I do not own a Sarah, but purchased one of the first SV84 amps with the grey steel box - great sound - back when they were first released. I went through one other one and now have a Torii Jr. Also have his Phono Pre-amp and his 8" open Baffle speaker - now discontinued I think. As others have suggested, sign up for the forum - there is a separate thread on the 300B.Tube cost has also prevented me from buying one, but I am happy with my Torii.

So if I wait 4.5 years and don't like it I can return it within 30 days?   And it will only cost $450 to try it?  Or cost $450 because I've grown impatient or die ?   Sign me up.  

@danager You left something off:  "All Decware amplifiers come with a 30 day in-home trial with a 10% restocking fee."  So 10% non-refundable deposit or a 10% restocking fee.  Buyer beware.

@kennyc 

Decware has a 30 day refundable in home policy.

It is, but who wouldn’t want a Blade Runner-esque amplifier? It could be called The Rachel. 

It's Decware.

4.7 years, non refundable? Yow - that put a damper on choosing Deckard products. 

Could it really be worth the time and money? What makes it so special?

The Decware list is more like 4.7 years now.  It averages ~10 a week. 2461 on the list.  I got on the list in mid Feb '22 near the bottom of page 7 (200/pg).  Hope to get my amp in August or September this year.  I've had plenty of time to watch the list move 😉

Hi Everyone - I appreciate everyone’s feedback. I’ll respond over the next few days to many of the posts, as I have some follow up questions. It’s clear this is a knowledgeable group I can learn from. 

For the moment, @njkrebs - wanted to address your question about the QLN prestige three speakers vs Dynaudio Heritage Specials. Let me start by saying I love the Dynaudio Special Heritage Speakers. When driven by a higher watt amp, they’re just dynamic and incredibly musical. The place I purchased them with let me buy them with a Luxman 590axii speaker, which just isn’t powerful enough to make those speakers sing. When I paired them with my Conrad Johnson Classic 120 (purchased much later), they came alive. 
 

The area where I feel the Dynaudio Specials excel is on the higher frequencies. Those tweeters are spectacular! At the same time, they do have a healthy amount of base too, when the music calls for it. I don’t think I’ll ever sell them. They’ll come into rotation every few months, for sure. 
 

How do they compare to the QLNs? 
 

I prefer the QLNs. Compared to the Dynaudio Heritage Specials, I think they are more balanced throughout the frequency range. And they just disappear in the room. Music just fills the room and you forget the speakers. I guess the audiophile term might be soundstage?  The music is just wonderfully expansive, wide and high. 

The other thing about the QLNs - they are somewhat relaxed sounding. There is nothing forward about them. If you enjoy having music in your home that fosters a relaxed and immersive quality, I don’t think you can purchase a better speaker brand. I love my QLN Prestige Three speakers. My wife also loves them and prefers them to the Dynaudios (which she also loves!). 

The Prestige Five must be incredible, btw. 
 

@bluethinker 

i too have the Dynaudio HS and am contemplating getting the QLN Prestige 5’s. I know you said the Prestige 3’s are in your system, but in the same room on your gear how would you compare the two? I got a lot of great suggestions on the forum regarding a new floorstanding speaker in the $10-20k range and was able to listen to many at AXPONA and I’m down to QLN and Joseph Audio. I need to put my system in my profile, but I run a Rega P10, Hana Umami Red, Modwright reference tube phono, and an Octave AB tube integrated with x2 KT150s per channel! 
Thanks!

-Nick

Kit1 Kit1-10 300B Integrated Amplifier – ANK Audio Kits

I owned the Anniversary edition with the C core transformers, and it was not only great sound, but absolutely dependable and great bass! I regret selling it. For an extra 10%, they will build it for you, and they do that meticulously. You can also specify caps etc.

Bluethinker,

Aric also has a lead time of a couple of months, not 3 years.

Bluethinker,

I have never heard the Sarah amp, so I will not offer any personal impressions; and by all accounts they are excellent. I too have heard about the parts quality they use, and at $4,500 without tubes.....they are about the same cost of many other 300B amps.

I will echo what several have already said, give a call to Aric Kimball at Aric Audio and have a discussion with him. He personally responds to all phone calls and emails, and makes ridiculously great equipment. I own his Motherlode XL preamplifier, and his Transcend "Push Pull" amplifier. The quality of parts he uses are second to none (Khozmo, Clarity/Jupiter/Dueland capacitors, wire wound resistors,Takman resistors, custom Transcendar transformers, point to point wiring, copper lined chassis, and hand made in the USA, and 2 yeare warranty)

Aric makes 2 300B amps, as well as a 2A3 SET amp. I do not want to sound like an advertisement, but his equipment is extraordinary.....and that is from personal experience in my system. When I eventually do end up buying a SET amp, it will definitely be one of Aric's designs.

The Don Sachs and Lynn Olson Blackbird 300B monoblocks also look to be "end game", but have never heard them......and at $20,000 a pair, are cost no object projects.

I’m a Decware fan boy.  But, waiting that long for any of their equipment is just too much.  I wanted a 300b and ordered a custom made from Min Yang at Tube Audio Labs.  He allowed me to specify transformers, caps and even silver wiring.  It really is a very well built unit but is more expensive than Decware.

For what it is worth. I got the 300B bug a few years ago. After hearing about them for so long. I also had a pretty good headphone system. I had the bright idea that since 300B systems tend to be lower power and that it would be a great match would be on my headphone system. Then if I liked what I heard I could see where to go from there. Wow, that worked really well.

My headphone system got two enormous boosts in sound quality all at once, from the realism of the 300B and a huge boost in power / current. I now listen to my headphone system all the time. It has jumped an order of magnitude in satisfying sound quality. It also, started a complete revamping of my main system to tubes… but not 300B… higher powered ones. So I get the best of both worlds in my main system.

The tube headphone amp I bought was a Woo WA5. It can be a tube headphone amp or an integrated amp powering speakers. Woo amps are simply fantastic and this is my third. I highly recommend it. You might consider a more tangential strategy, it worked for me anyway.

I love my 300b but unless you have speakers that are very easy to drive they don’t always make sense.   
 

I am always swapping gear around but I can really only use two pair of speakers with that amp, my Forte IV and Omega Super Alnicos.    My Sonus Faber Concerto were a horrible match.  Lifeless. Ran out of steam fast.   
 

It’s really important that you have or plan on always having high efficiency speakers if you are looking at 300b.  They distort early on so if it’s not living in its sweet spot of one or two watts you are making it work too hard and that will be hard on your ears.   

If not willing to wait, check out Cary Audio 300b SEI, great design (Dennis Had), 15 wpc with great build, great folks to work with. Sold CaryDirect now. I thought about going on the Decware list, but daylight wasting and went with a Cary Audio.

Or if you can pick up a Dennis Had inspire 300b SET, 8 wpc superb tonality and sound stage with high sensitivity speakers.  I have both a Cary 300b and Inspire KT88, best hand build amps in same $$ category as Decware without going $$$$ Audio Note out of Japan, not the kits.

Those amps are $$$….  Maybe not a fair comparison.   I’d be pretty disappointed if I waited 3 plus years for an amp and it looked like that Sarah on the inside.  
 

Though I do not own these, there is a new 300B mono amp designed by Lynn Olsen and Don Sachs being built and sold by Spatial Audio Labs. I ordered the Raven preamp from them. The prototypes have received very positive reviews.

Cheaply constructed, plastic stand-offs are used as nuts ... $10 potentiometer.   Silkscreen came out wrong so they just flipped the top plate over ... $5k ?   Seriously?   

Another excellent possibility is the Coincident Frankenstein 300B Stereo Amplifier.

According to the people who say more watts sound better, you'd do well to avoid that amp. Then again, they probably think that a fuse can alter the sound so I say, go for it. Personally I don't want to wait that long and wouldn't support him for other reasons that I can't mention here. 

Keep in mind that the Decware deposits are non-refundable.  They don't highlight that on their site or when you place an order but if you try to cancel they won't give you your money back.  I'll never buy anything from them.

Also, check out the ANK 300B with the optional C-core transformers. I had one and regret selling it.

I owned a Torii II a few years ago and I liked it a lot. I thought about getting on the list a while back for the latest Torii, but I don’t have the patience for that. This is my third Aric amp and they’ve all been excellent performers. I still have a custom Aric EL84 amp at 15 wpc. While it sounds great, the 300B amp actually sounds more authoritative.

@ozzy62 I'd love to see a head to head with Aric and Decware.  Steve is a master designer but I like what I see from Aric also.  Aric has a huge advantage on delivery time so it is hard to do a comparison.

Jerry

@danager There isn't much tube rolling to do on the SE84UFO (my current backup amp) and there won't be much to do on the Sarah either.  Get a pair of EML 300B and be happy.  Same with inputs, it is pretty easy to get a good pair and quit shopping.  There are a few inferior 300Bs out there that you should just skip.  

Now if you want to do a lot of inespensive (until you add it all up) tube rolling get a ZMA or Torii.  You'll see a lot of my posts in the tube rolling threads on Decware forum.  I rolled most options in the ZMA and ended up deciding in the end that the KT66 which Steve built the amp around was the best.

Jerry

For anyone looking for a high quality 300B amp, I’d like to recommend the Aric Audio Super 300B. I’ve had mine for about six months now and I am very pleased with it. Aric is a pleasure to deal with and will offer upgrades as you desire. I added some goodies to mine. Highly recommended.
 

Super 300B

I've had 3 decware amps and like them a lot.  I'm 1.5 years on the list for a Decware 300B but think I'm still a year out.  In the mean time  I've steeped up about 2 levels from Decware with my current amp.  I don't know if it will become available making someone very happy or if it will become my back up amp.  I'll have to hear it first.

Jerry

Agree that checking out the Decware forum site would be helpful.  A lot of insightful  discussion on tubes as well.  I just received my Decware Torii Jr V2 in Jan after a 26 month wait.  Such a nice sounding amp once you find the right tube synergy. I too have a 300b amp plan for a second option in the future but not decware’s Sarah.  Wait is just too long. At 3 years +.  
@danager  I was intrigued by Space tech Labs super rectifiers. Might give one a go on my Torii Jr. now that tube rolling has settled.  It will give me more opportunities to feed my  tube rolling obsession. 🤪

There is a lot of discussions regarding this amp on the Decware forum and it has been my experience that the members there are very forthcoming with their opinions.  Overall the reviews have been very positive with the majority of the discussions regarding tube choice.

I'm also considering a 300b amplifier but not sure I can wait three years to get one.  The other amp I'm considering is the Space Tech Labs IA-300B-STR.  It uses what he calls a Super Rectifier  While I haven't seen the amp reviewed the responses to the Super Rectifier add on have been super positive.

I've owned my Decware amp the SE84UFO for several years now and it's been rock solid with both watts sounding fantastic.  My only reluctance to stepping into the 300B world is how expensive tube rolling is.  A pair WE 300b tubes at $1500 cost more than my amplifier and all the NOS tubes I've tried.