Good for you, makes life easier. I want to remain hands on (until I can't, maybe when I (hope) to be in my late 90s.
I purchased the tube gear (phono, pre and monoblock amps) from two people who chose to go solid state with all in one receiver and the other an integrated amp. The receiver owner opted for a separate phono pre-amp but the system sounds fine with the same speakers I have. Prior to his move, the integrated owner also had the same speakers (Legacy Focus).
If I thought about getting an integrated amp, I would probably still choose a tube based design.
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@mapman wrote:
Also I think I no longer would lay any claim to being an "audiophile" anymore having made things so relatively simple. I will call myself an "audio enthusiast" now, however I still will always want to keep an eye on what else is out there...especially the latest and greatest innovative applications of technology that might still move things forward. "Future Fi" is the term I have read that seems to describe these kinds of transformative products these days.
Thoughts?
Knowing your own bearing here is what matters, and you seem to thrive with your choice into simplification via the Cambridge - kudos.
I know I challenged my own heading buying used pro segment speakers (an experiment, to begin with) costing 1/10 of the ones I had at the time that were hand-made in Brighton and tailored to me specifically. Turned out those Duratex finished, actively configured pro cinema speakers went from experiment to permanent residency in my setup. In my own mind I’m no less an "audiophile" now than I was before, perhaps even more so for getting ever closer to this sonic ideal of mine, but the outside perception may be one of perplexity and wondering what it’s all about.
Re: "Future Fi" I had myself look up a pair JBL 250Ti in teak veneer on Google the other day. In the late 80’s I stood next to such a brand new pair of 250Ti’s at a local dealer, mesmerized. They had just been unwrapped, and standing there hooked up to a pair of Threshold SA/1 amps + pre and SME turntable, grills off, they glowed in their slightly orange-tint teak veneer with that very particular smell of wood-oil combo filling the locale - intoxicating. The sound of it all bowled over me, and how I wished I could afford them at $3k/pair (indeed the whole shebang). Yes, $3k - a pair. Yet, I was still a highschool lad and had to settle with my JBL 4408 monitors, NAD 7240PE receiver and Rega 3 turntable - absolutely OK in its own right.
Then I’m looking up what can be had today for ~$7k/pair (adjusted for inflation), and mostly it’s a range of rather sterile and anemic looking square boxes with nothing approaching the sheer girth, physical presence and sensory awesomeness of the JBL 250Ti’s - not even from JBL themselves. Future Fi? A sad excuse, if you ask me.
With regard to other areas in gear (particularly digital) I can see progression for sure, but I guess I’m the one to linger more in the old-school way of doing things, with the periodic modern "sprinkle" here and there like DSP usage, HDD source and a mixture of class A and class D-based amps.
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Good for you @mapman !I would like to go simpler also,but our WIFI here is not reliable enough to go that route. Enjoy:-)
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Hey, you already bragged! Ha,ha, but that's OK. One part (of many) rewarding things of reading on this discussion forum is to learn what good products are out there. I am happy you found one you like. I tend to pick components and live with them for at least a few decades until components start to affect the sound. Like you I went from separates and went integrated and very happy with it. Some people like to change systems and are on a journey. I have many interests and not the cash to dump into Hi Fi. It is fun though following the technology and others experiences.
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@mapman , I've suspected a 'proper' D amp would mate well with Ohm units...
I've a couple of inexpensive units that have paired well with mine, so...
Happy to hear (no pun) that you're enjoying your new future. ;)
It is an impressive byte of tech, scary in that it only weighs < 12 lbs. in some ways.
Keep us appraised about any burn-in details you notice...which I'm sure you'll spend some time trying to ignore listening for.... *G* Always nice to have 'something entirely different' in one's company. *L*
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Age has a way of having one look at simplifying one's life. Less things to deal with, and stop chasing the next best thing. We Like having an Integrated amp with separate DAC and music server though. Congratulations on your new streamline system..
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after going full-on vinyl, this would feel like falling off the wagon. I hate streaming for it being so easy, and making me lazy.
But there is nothing wrong with all-in-one, probably way better synergy than anything else for this price
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@asvjerry
Other than spls now limited to the low 90s at my main listening position, the amp in the newer Cambridge took everything to a higher level especially with the big Ohms than the gear it replaced, which was somewhat older….Bel Canto ref1000m monoblocks and Audio Research sp16 tube preamp, no slouches. Listing for almost $8k together in their day. That’s with both digital and phono as a source. Everything is clearer, more detailed, better imaging and more dynamic. Not nearly as laid back as prior. The biggest differences can be heard with the best classical recordings as one would expect. The Cambridge Evo 150 cost $3K back earlier this year.
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@mapman ....*L* In a year, you ought to be much like you are now, but 1 more lengthy in tooth and shorter of hair. ;)
I've that problem as well....🙄
Audiophile, 'phobe, 'philiac, 'fiend, you be want you wanna be. ;)
Personally, more interest in how you hear your Ohms with the new intergrated.
But, that's just my interest to pique'. *G*
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I wanted to simplify my system, a bit, by retiring my outboard Bluetooth receiver and outboard DAC. I read great things about the Cambridge Audio CX 81, so I took a chance on one. The analog section of the amp is excellent. I also found the onboard Bluetooth to be excellent, especially with HD sources. The onboard DAC is a disappointment. My 20 year old Rotel CD player sounds better through it's internal DAC and my circa 2015 outboard Arcam DAC sounds better as well. It's still well worth the $800 for a factory refurb unit. But for the regular $1400, not with that chipset.
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Often high-end audio can be obsessive and hard on the bank account, but musical enjoyment should be the end goal. Congratulations, nothing wrong with contentment.
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The Coda CSIB integrated is a not as well known as say Ayre,or Pass labs
Nelson Pass actually started out with this same design team
at Threshold -Stasis ,great classics audio , then Nelson went out solo in the 1990s
and these engineers formed Coda , a fantastic integrated with the biggest potted ,not open toroidal like most 3,000va which is much bigger then most
and 3 power choices for the same price ,lowest power is 18-1st watts in pure class A ,then 150,300,600 wpc , super high current 120 amps short term
and on back 2-16 amp slow blow fuses , 10 year warranty ,exceptional build quality
for under $7k. A steal , I only upgraded the preamplifier output caps from the very good Rel caps to the Big Duelund tinned Copper foil foil oiled paper caps.
it sounds very good.
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Mapman, I'm sorry but once you become an audiophile you can't be demoted to audio enthusiast, it's not possible here on Agon. Although nothing wrong with simplifying your system.
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@jjss49
Yeah it’s just semantics I suppose and I am being a little tongue in cheek. I suppose if one is successful on achieving one’s goals, that is all that matters.
Talk to me in a year. Who knows what I will be then. 😃
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@mapman
i like this thread but am confused why you feel you need to not be called an audiophile just because you went to a simplified system... that seems silly
audiophiles care about excellent reproduction of music in the domestic environment but all audiophiles have limits regarding space, budget, placement etc etc... dealing with those doesn’t make them any lesser audiophiles
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I would assert that The high efficiency of Class D amps along with optimizations with power supplies for that including noise suppression enables integrated amps in general to push the limits and please even more people. Having been around a while and experienced a lot in this area, that is my observation. Noise levels with Class D amps many years back was a common problem but need not be anymore.
So more is always possible with separates. It’s not a slam dunk though in all cases. In fact it’s probably harder than ever for separates to distinguish themselves in any way meaningful to most home audio users.
A hard core audiophile determined to always push the limits no matter what will still not stop trying to do that. Some will succeed. Others may not. My point is personally I no longer feel that the return is worth it for me. So I turn in my audiophile membership card. Call me an enthusiast, at least for now. 😉. I will always be a music lover.
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Separates at the high end are like a finely tuned exotic car, everything has to be in harmony for full effect. I'll stay with the complexity until my faculties escape me and I'm unable to recall all the steps required to fire up the damn thing!
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It is not that separates are always better it probably comes down to that in one chassis yo are limited to what you can do as a manufacturer. Think power supply, separation for various parts in the signal path, etc. Most single chassis designs are crammed in there and with less space you have to deal with compromises.
In most cases here, you are comparing general manufactured products to each other. Same or same parts quality, nothing s point-to-point wired, etc. When you get into reference quality components, that is when you will understand the differences between components and what makes them sound the way they do.
Happy Listening.
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@soarnatti
I use wireless WiFi network connection to the Evo. Always have used wireless connections to stream. Sounds great….no problem.
The only drawback is the music library functionality on the Evo is rather slow over WiFi to my fairly large remote Plex media server library. It’s a limitation. But I get around it using a good quality, long run usb connection to keep computer I run Plex on away from the rest of the hifi gear. Or, sometimes I just stream using Plexamp on my smartphone or tablet and connect via AirPlay. Either way sounds top notch to my ears.
Plexamp is like Roon in regards to providing flexible access to music. The built in music library functionality/ Cambridge Stream Magic app is barebones in comparison to Roon or Plexamp for music discovery. Most similar proprietary vendor apps are I read.
The built in internet radio functionality is quite good though. I’ve started to stream hi res internet stations for the first time with the evo and some of those are a sonic treat.
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If I get a chance will try and do a review of the Evo. So much to talk about there! The good sound is just the tip of the iceberg.
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Naim Unity was another option I studied but did not quite fit the bill. I am interested to see what new products Naim puts out in upcoming years though.
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@frazeur1 good to hear from you.
Yes Downsizing is something I consider these days. But it’s always nice to simplify things, eliminate clutter and recover space.
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For those less inclined to dabble and experiment (and nitpick even perhaps)there has always been a strong argument for letting the experts do the integrations for you. Also to avoid having to connect things with pricey wires. I believe technical innovation will continue to provide more and better options for various all in one devices that can replace many. If the goal is to cut to the chase and get good sound ASAP, it is a real option to consider. Of course in the end it is still always different strokes for different folks, but some strokes are just easier and more productive than others. It all depends. No news there.
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@mapman, very interesting, Map! I have somewhat struggled a bit with doing this very thing as a wholesale change. I pretty well completed my "retirement" system a few years ago, and while I am not quite yet retired, the system is, and has, given me such pleasure.
Over the years I have accumulated a few extra pieces prior to that main system over-haul, and have kept the best pieces out of it all. One of these pieces is an all-in-one Naim Uniti1, the swiss-army knife of audio components that I have. It does pretty much everything, CD, Streamer, FM tuner, amp, preamp, DAC, in one fine box. And while it is over 10 years old, has done sterling service and I know what it is capable of, and still use it. Quite impressive even if it is "outdated" by todays standards. Yet I could live with it, as it can drive my Duevel Venus omni's quite well.
At times, the thought of ditching all my other gear, and buying an up-to-date one box wonder, gives me great pause. Yet in it, it seems almost a good thing too, as the last couple years of my life has come about much simplifying/downsizing, yet I still do not want to compromise the quality I have in my main system. Something that I may have to come to grips with in the next year or so possibly. Really, quite a few of these all-in-one pieces are quite good in reality, it is just maybe we don't always allow ourselves to move on from the audio-nerdery business thinking it can't be as good-or even better. Maybe it is though. Everyone's situation is different, and why one might go this route or not. The main thing is still being able to enjoy our music to the fullest, no matter what the hardware may be.
Enjoy the Cambridge, am glad you kept the Ohms, and that it appears to be working for you! I may too succumb to the dark side of downsizing/simplifying my setup soon.
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@condosound
My bet was that the technology available now in the good products would move me forward and that happened.
What lies on the future? Probably even better things and more options So I will cross that bridge when it comes. The Evo will likely not be going anywhere soon.
Remember this was an experiment that worked out I waited over 6 months to start unloading the old gear.
I have a BelCanto c5i still upstairs as well. Also does it all except requires separate streamer. There is a newer model out the c6i. Probably already another step forward there, but not planning any changes there at present
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@mapman No Doubt … If only the mfg’s would work out the kinks 1st rather than rushing to market 1st, that would be great !
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@hi @bondmanp
yes you are right about the move from 500 w/ch to now 120w/ch as per product specs.
originally I was targeting the more powerful nad m33 to come closer. However the Cambridge was a better fit for me feature-wise. So given a good return policy I decided to see what the Cambridge could do first for $2k+ less. You don’t know until you try.
No doubt the Cambridge cannot go as loud as the prior 500w/ch monoblocks could. But they do go no problem up to ~ 90db from my main listening position about 10 feet back from my large Ohms. I’ve pretty much decided that I can live with that. Plenty of volume with less risk of hearing damage over time from very high spls. Plus the Cambridge does other things very well that delivers more of the music at lower spl. So turns out I can live with a good 120 w/ch of Hypex amplification.
Regarding the kefs, The metas are a step beyond the original ls50s in every way plus I use a sub. So there is the nth degree of detail and yes still a slightly livelier sound than the Ohms, but with the F5s, how much less laid back they are depends on where the two higher frequency adjustments are set on the F5s. The Cambridge presentation overall is inherently more forward I would say than the older Bel Canto Class D amps they replaced. The sound is less laid back and more lively and detailed at all frequencies. I’d attribute that to the much newer Class D amps. The sound stage is not quite as wide wall to wall as before. That happens whenever there is more high-frequency (directional) sound energy produced. I actually had my F5s set with a 3db high frequency boost prior. Now I moved that back with the new amps. It’s really a matter of personal preference. Within its lower SPL limits, the Cambridge does bass as well and probably better than before. Still all there at the right levels and more articulate as before. It’s really only fair to compare ls50s to larger Ohms when used with a sub and even then only in a smaller room. Both Ohms and Kefs currently sound magnificent but not the same. The kef metas and sub are wonderful for peering into the nth degree of detail in a recording. The Ohms are perhaps a tad behind in that regard but are still the ones that I choose to listen to for extended periods when I just want to kick back and enjoy the music. I am very fortunate to have many different ways to listen to and appreciate music. Good times!
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@flasd the difference between today and yesteryear is the technological advancements that make things now possible that never were before. You can bank on that!
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Ah, the Great Leap Forward! *L*
...at least you kept the Walsh... ;)
@asvjerry yes the Ohm Walsh speakers are quite unique and really not practically replaceable. The 5s are fairly massive but also quite adjustable to any room with the on board controls and built in castors for easy movement which makes them even more unique and valuable.
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Ditto for bondman re the potential need to change the entire audio unit if you change speakers. For my system, which includes tubes, I need to push four "on" buttons and wait two minutes for warm-up while I'm deciding what to play. That's immeasurable effort and no wasted time.. So what's the problem that you need to solve to go to single combined-function gear? Also, note that DACs differ widely and they are rapidly improving; do you intend to change out your single unit every time there is an advance in DACs? I think this is the wrong time to be switching to a single unit audio system.
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@mapman Congratulations on your new purchase. A few questions:. You went from a very powerful Bel Canto amp to an all in one rated to deliver much less wattage. Your Ohms are fine with that? You used to insist that the Ohms did better when fed a lot of power. Also, I know the LS50s have many fans, but as a fellow Ohm owner, I don't get your affinity for the KEF speakers. I have heard the LS50s many times, and with good gear and careful setups, and like most other KEFs I have heard, found them hyper detailed, bright, thin and grainy sounding. Since we are both used to the Ohm house sound, I find it odd that you like the KEF house sound.
All that said, I will continue with my double wide rack of gear, including a digital chain that is looking more and more like a Rube Goldberg contraption these days.
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mapman,
Welcome to future-fi.
I bought my Evo 150 about 6 months or so ago, traded a Cambridge receiver for it, so my system wasn't high end to begin with. I wasn't all that happy with it, the Evo, Roon and Tidal, until recently when I purchased the Ethernet Media Converter from Small Green Computer $350.00 plus 14. shipping, Now I listen tapping my toes and a smile.
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@mapman: I look at that move similarly (in a way) as moving from an amp and preamp to an integrated unit. Nothing wrong with that especially if you are happy with what you hear. I would definitely want to hold onto my separate components for a long while, just to be certain what you are truly hearing, and/or you don't get the hankering again for separate components or to assemble another separate system. It's funny how that can happen over time.
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Yep… My Folks had the same idea in the 60’s with our Magnavox Console TV / Stereo Unit…LOL
Funny What’s Old is New Again… Separates at one time were thought to be the “Leading Edge”
As for me… Too much under the hood ! Just ditched my NAD C658 after a week of ownership being it was so buggy requiring numerous factory resets to unfreeze the unit. Heck, spent more time fussing with the thing than listening. Until the Mfg’s trying to be more profitable stop jamming all this stuff in to one chassis with the barest of power supply’s with app’s that you’re their beta tester on, Thanks but No Thanks… I’ll stick with my separates.
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I have never heard the Cambridge Evo 150 but it is great to hear that it sounds so good. I just bought a used Cambridge Evo 150 for my nephew in Canada. He hooked it up to my old KEF LS50s and starting a path towards good sound.
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Ah, the Great Leap Forward! *L*
...at least you kept the Walsh... ;)
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well done @mapman
same idea different implementation on my part, of late
weiss 501 streaming dac, into classe power amp, to speakers...
of course there is a gaggle of gear for a clean network signal and subs supporting speakers... but the main rig is down to two boxes... one bigger one little... the quality of music reproduced is staggeringly good...
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My system is a carefully assembled rack of amazingly great sounding items that are absolutely no trouble to use, and it will last me well into the so called "future fi" world. If I were to buy a vacation house or somehow needed another complete rig other than my main one (I already have 2 more systems: A TV room pile of left over bits from my hobby, and a complete recording studio with sort of "pro" gear including near field and P.A. stuff) I might consider an integrated amp.
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@anotherbob
I was targeting the NAD M33 originally mainly for the added power. I required a USB input which would tack another $500 to the M33 cost for an add-on board (ouch). Also I was not really interested in doing adjustments for room acoustics in that I had my old setup tuned in just right without it.
I decided to try the Cambridge. It checked all my boxes for considerably less. I bought from a well known vendor with a good return policy.
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It would be hard to beat a NAD M33 for all in one convenience and sound quality. Not cheap but not expensive either, certainly worth the money!
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Congratulations @mapman!
Late last year, I bought my first integrated amp ever and could not be happier. I do still have a separate DAC and streamer because the DAC and streaming functions on the Hegel can be improved on.
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Separates are always better
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I've got a lot of separates and I'm not ready to part with them, but I recently bought a used Hegel H160 for my office and added one component, blue sound node for streaming and really, really like what it produces. While the streamer is separate everything else is in the Hegel: DAC, preamp and amp. I love the "clean" look without all the cables and really don't feel that I give up much if anything in sound quality.
As I grow into a much older version of myself, I can easily imagine unloading all the separates and going all in one; good feng shui as well!
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Congrats! I’ve done something similar with a new integrated that includes a great phono stage and dac.
I question how much better separates are than integrateds these days.
Enjoy your system. I do.
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@mapman - Anything that makes you more inclined to turn it on and play it is a good thing in my book. I've gotten to the point where the main system is actually a bit of effort, and that deters me sometimes. That's not what this hobby should be about. As to whether you have to turn in your "audiophile" badge, most interpret the term to be a lover of "sound" but in our parlance, I think it does mean the avid pursuit of music listening in a fidelious way. I trust you've achieved that. enjoy~
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all in one tube unit?
remote: vol; mute; (remote balance would be nice);
stereo/mono modes; mm phono (external sut ok for mc); dac (upgradable); 4 line in; ht bypass; tape loop; processor loop; two out
preferably 6sn7
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No way. I've got to justify my 28 tube turntable based kit.
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