Best DACs under $7,000.00

For a read out of curiosity, the Stereophile review of the Audio-GD is now out on their website. Provides insights on other dac’s.

I requested it from Lampizator and they said that the units no longer come with custom input options. They come standard with 4 inputs. No I2S option. 

@anzaanimalclinic, thanks for that info, and yes, would like to know more about the audible difference between SOtM and ENO. To complicate things even further I noticed NA has a newer product called "muon".

@gregjacob, my B3 got me to the point where I am much more focused on listening to music rather than upgrading. When it came to the Phoenix, it became expendable. I'm hoping your A3 delivers the same (and more) for you.

chilehed   Thanks.  I did contact Lampizator but they are not currently offering I2S input options.  Their answer:  "Problem with i2s is there's no universal standard. So unless we know the specs you're trying to match, it won't be compatible."  Which, unfortunately, is true.  The only sure compatibility is if, like in the case of Denafrips, the I2S is used within the same brand.  The general opinion is that any additional processing to try and improve upon declocking / reclocking is probably redundant at best.  Some who have tried testing it on higher-end equipment have discarded outside declocking altogether.

Any recommendations for a DAC with a big soundstage, good dynamics, but low on glare? I have a Mc DAC that has the first two of my requirements but can have an edge and glare. Just trying out a PS Audio Directstream, which I’m returning because it is too closed and lacks dynamics—no glare at all though.

the Weiss 501 looks intriguing.

@chilehed 

Its been a while since I changed the ENO and SOtm cables.  My recollection is better noise reduction effects like less congestion, better details, better separation of instruments and notes.

Kind of more of what you get when you add the ENO vs a non filtered LAN cable.

@w123ale have you heard a Bricasti M3 yet? Checks all my boxes.

@rsf507 I have not! I’ll check it out. Thanks.

@w123ale Some words of caution.

Ask yourself: do DAC designers build DACs with the express purpose to deliver small soundstages, poor dynamics, and high glare?

The divergent results you’ve shared suggest you pull up and reflect on your entire system and the elements that may be behind what you are reporting.

It’s understandable and reasonable to want a unit of one to solve our ’problems’ or deliver what we want. You’ll get much further by addressing the larger picture.

Wishing you success.

Any recommendations for a DAC with a big soundstage, good dynamics, but low on glare? I have a Mc DAC that has the first two of my requirements but can have an edge and glare. Just trying out a PS Audio Directstream, which I’m returning because it is too closed and lacks dynamics—no glare at all though.

@jon2020 ,

I did that review and it sounds like the Audio-GD is a great value. Wonder if anyone has heard that DAC. The reviewer was raving so much about it. But again - I do not know the relationship between the distributor and the rag. It might be a genuine opinion, but of late I have been looking at everything very cautiously.

I am using Holo May, when I want to use it simply, I use USB input, the sound is already quite good.
When I want to hear better sound than USB input, I use Hydra HUB as DDC and transmit I2S signal to May.
(It can be fully compatible with the I2S pin between May and Hydra HUB)
I think May is a very good DAC with enough potential to make it sound better.
I must say here that being able to use I2S is a huge benefit, actually tested it does bring better sound than other type of inputs.

Dear blisshifi

The T+A 200 DAC is one that I am seriously interested in, but only if I can use it as a DAC/preamp. I would run it straight to my power amp. 
CAN YOU tell me about the preamp section, and how good it is for use like that? I had been interested in the Meitner MA3 DAC, which has volume control, and though it is said to be excellent, I want something with a headphone stage (which T+A200 has ... yay!) and a true preamp section.

• The alternative and my still #1 choice for a preamp is the LTA MZ preamp (tube) combined with a DAC (not sure which one).

THANKS!

Hey @patrickdowns - Perhaps this is a convo that is better suited through PM or call, so I’ll follow up to get in touch. That said, I’ll also answer your inquiry for anyone else interested on the thread.

The T+A DAC has a very good preamp section for its price point compared to other DACs that are in its price range (e.g. much better than the PS Audio DirectStream DAC’s preamp section is, or even the Mola Mola Tambaqui’s volume control direct to amp, for instance). The one caveat I would share is that in my personal experience, T+A’s preamps are very linear - it is not the component where one will enjoy added bloom or harmonics. This is true even with their HV series, where more of the harmonics come from the DAC and A 3000 HV amps. The HV preamp is exceptional in its own way for delivering sonics, and though it is not colored, but it does have exceptional harmonics. If I were to compare the HV preamp, it would be a step above the ARC REF 6 SE, but in the same sonic character. The same is true for the 200 series, where the DAC stage has more of the harmonics, the preamp within the DAC 200 is linear, and if paired with the A 200 amp, the amp is also very, very linear (despite the amp having a warmer setting by adjusting the damping factor).

What does this mean? If you are wanting to run a digital-only system, you should have no issues using the DAC 200 going straight into an amplifier. If you have an analog source going into it, however, you will want to ensure that the sonics are to your liking, as it will not add the color or harmonics a tube preamp will. But I have no hesitation to use the DAC 200 as a preamp straight to amp for many systems and have typically had this concern/challenge with just about any other DAC I've used to go straight into an amp. The DAC 200 has a true preamp stage.

Hope this helps!

@w123ale You just described the Merason DAC1 to a "T".  I had the Bricasti M3 in for a few days and with my set-up (Fleetwood Devilles, McGary Integrated, Backert Labs Pre) the Merason was the better fit.

Merason DAC1 connects you to music. It’s just remarkable and oh so musical.

I still find myself shaking my head in disbelief.

STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You no longer need a DAC....the best DAC is NO DAC. Please read the Peachtree Gan 1 beta thread on the amplifier board. A guy had a Holo May KTE and a Holo Serene preamp and the Kinki labs B7 monos with great cables in between ($15K system) and the $1400 Peachtree GaN1 sounds way better......no DAC, no Preamp, no normal amp, no analog interconnects, no transistors, no tubes, no resistors, no capacitors, no feedback, no opamps....no nothing....just great sound.......the amp is the DAC. Very similar to what Technics and Lyngdorf are doing.....but cheaper and probably way better using GaNs on the output.....available now. I will be writing a webpage about this whole revolution and will have a link to it by the end of the week......Do not buy a DAC....simply a waste of money. The revolution has started....you can bi and tri amp with these amps and use a digital xover and drive your speaker drivers directly from the amp.......this is mind blowing.

@ricevs

This very exciting, but doesn’t this require replacing transports with ripping/streaming devices, which then requires a laptop/tablet...?

It seems this old dog needs to learn some new tricks

@verdantaudio If someone needs a preamp/dac in one box at this price bracket (but does not require analog inputs) what do you suggest? The Weiss 501/502 was the one I was aiming for, and there is a new version out now apparently.

@agisthos The Weiss is a bit more expensive than $7K.  You can find a used 501/502 comfortably in this range.  It is a great unit and the preamp stage is very good. 

You have the secondary concern about system matching though.  The Weiss is superb but a hair forward of neutral.  I would never say that that is the right unit for you without knowing more about your system  The new MK2/4Ch version is about $2K more.  There will be an upgrade available to the new board sometime in the new year.  

The best preamp stage in the price class (or very close) IMO would be the Rockna Wavedream Edition SE at $7200 and that unit is dead neutral and the preamp stage is better than most.  If you don't need XLR connections, the SE versions of these DACs are jaw droppingly good for the money.

In the similar price class to the Weiss MK2 4Ch, the AGD Adante which is a full preamp with R2R DAC inside and is Roon ready.  This has a distinct advantage over many of these units as it is a true preamp that has a DAC module in it. 

@ricevs

You need to take it easy man. I am now starting to suspect if you have an agenda. Maybe not. But same thing again and again over an amp sounds suspicious. At the same time, I wonder if you are even take a breath while creating a post!

I do have an agenda. I want everyone to be happy and have the best stereo they can at the cheapest price. I have enthusiasm......comes for the greek....meaning:

"be inspired or possessed by a god"

God animates us.....wants us to live our life with joy and love and serve one another......with PASSION.

Digital amplification plus digital crossovers plus off the grid power plus plus make your own speakers are the new paradigm....believe it or not.

I am writing the webpage on all this right this minute.....stay tuned. I will be sharing this with the whole world......this is a game changer.......incredible sound for very little money....bye bye expensive high end.....welcome to the new world.....Dealers and most manufacturers and most people will find this very, very unsettling.....How can a dealer sell you a 200lb. $100K amplifier if you can do better for a few thousand dollars? I will be sending my webpage to manufacturers all over the world.....the revolution has begun....but it will take at least 5 years for most of the people to catch on as most are other directed and not creative and most are addicted to whatever they think is best or just bought........most people are slow to change. However, those who can see what is really going on will adopt this pretty quickly as they know this "new stuff" will give the most goosebumps. NO BREATHING ALLOWED HERE!!!!!!!

What if you removed the xover from your Proac speakers and biamped using two GaN 1 amps with the $600 minidsp digital xover?!?.....OMG.....it would blow your mind!!!

About 8-10k USD is the limit for what I could spend on a single component so this thread is much more useful than those talking about 3 box DCS setups.

I already have a very good amp (Steve Keiser Luminance KST-150) and don’t want another pre amp box, so the choices get narrower for a DAC with decent volume control.

So far the Weiss DAC501 and Rockna Wavedream SE looks like good options, and there is a dealer here in OZ that has both of them. And this T&A DAC 200 looks very good as well. As someone else here said, had never considered that brand before.

@agisthos I hear good things about T+A.  Supposed to be a first rate unit.  The fact you have a dealer who has both will make it easier.  One thing I will say, you need to get a signal to the DAC.  T+A is supposed to be best with USB.  Weiss, the onboard renderer is amazing and I would recommend connecting to it via ethernet.  Rockna is best via I2S.  So depending on your source...could indicate which is the best solution.  

@milpai

Apparently you are new to Rics musings. Believe me, he knows his audio!!! I have his EVS 1200 and love it even more now that I have completely replaced all my really good($$$$) cables with mostly Ali-Express Odin 2 coax, XLR, and speaker cables (incredible bargains at entry level cable prices) and, took all my kit out of a vertical Solid Steel rack, even though each shelf had maple shelves. My Audiolab 6000CDT and Audio Alchemy DDP-1 (dac/pre) + PS 5 outboard power supply now resting on a DIY maple table top that I scored locally < $200. Dimensions 5 x 2 x 2"!

hth

@ricevs

Why not list your system in Audiogon virtual system page..it is likely to inspire more folks. Pics along with description is typically more helpful to understand one’s vision  backed by ownership on a world class best sounding system for pennies on the dollar.

@ricevs 

I share your enthusiasm for the GAN 1, however I'm wondering if you have actually ordered one or have otherwise had hands-on with a unit. Would prefer real world experience rather then speculation.

Do not ever trust the word of someone you do not know personally....including me. Please read the GaN 1 thread for the 7 current reviews of the amp and you will see this exploding soon. The only hands on that is important is your hand......Try one....then you will know. There will be more manufacturers in the next year using these EAS (Elegant Audio Solutions) boards, I will be modding the boards for people and other manufacturers will start to develop their own digital amps. We have only just begun.  But if the $1400 GaN1 beats the Holo May KTE, Holo Preamp and Kinki Labs B7s with $1K worth of interconnects ($15K) then imagine a tweaked board or an even better board down the line using super power supplies, etc.......Fun times ahead.

@ricevs 

The Peachtree unit has no usb input? No go for many of us with high quality USB streamers. Major oversight.

@ricevs i ordered a peachtree.  Looking forward to comparing it to some different gear.  

I bought the Peachtree GAN1 today. I had Ric's first modded Voyager 350 GAN amp so if he is enthusiastic about the GAN1 I want to check it out. The idea of less wires and boxes does make for a compelling argument.

@ricevs If you need a GAN1 unit to mod get in touch with me in January. I will send my unit up to you and you can figure it out.

Looking forward to hear impressions of GAN1 beta-testers @verdantaudio and @yyzsantabarbara on comparisons|whether GAN1 sounds better than $7K dacs.

Let’s be honest, for many including myself $7k is a lot of coin.   I would suggest checking out LAB 12’s DAC 1 Reference for half the money.  It is a great sounding DAC  if you don’t need DSD or MQA.    
 

I have 2 systems in my house, and I started with the Aqua La Voce S3 $4000 and then picked up a Saturn Audio series 200 Dac, $3800.00 and every bit as good even better than the Aqua. I moved the aqua to my second system. 

So where does Berkeley Audio's Alpha DAC (not the Reference DAC) fit in all this? The recent series 3 has raised the RRP to 11k, but I seem to recall both Series 1 & 2 being under 7k, and used prices definitely under that.

get a nice universal spinner, less stuff to do.

a good disc player and good cabling makes a world of difference.

a nice 5 cd carousel is great, Yammy makes a very nice one, cds600 or something. 

Hi Ricev,

In theory sounds your reasoning is ideal but in real life things are rarely the case. I would need to hear it. In my experience no matter how expensive your front end digital stack is at the end of the day it's  still digital. So calm down!😅

@verdantaudio ,

Did you receive your Peachtree unit yet? 

Mine arrived on Christmas Eve.  I haven’t had a chance to open it yet.  I will listen to it tonight for first time.  

verdantaudio

Greatly looking forward to your impressions of the GAN.

@verdantaudio How are you going to get the music bits into the SPDIF of the GAN1? 

@ricevs  how can this unit have no tubes, no transistors, no op amps, is it magic?

As stated before.....you need no tubes, transistors or opamps BEFORE the DSP chip in a digital amp.....no preamps, no DACs with their output stages and no normal tube or transistor amps......of course there are transistors in the DSP chip and drivers and GaN transistors in the class D output stage......but before the DSP chip there is nothing....but a PCM signal from your source.

Yes indeed....it is magic......and now VTV Audio also has a digital amp that has  higher power than the Peachtree amp.

@ricevs  OCD hifi guy said digital amps sound bad, so who am I to believe you or him?

Let’s see......he is a salesmen who sells DACs over $20K and amps over $20K and preamps over $20K......If he promoted a $1500 digital amp.....he would not be in business (he makes thousands on every sale).....As you know, no preamp, DAC and normal amp is needed with a digital amp. I told you dealers want NOTHING to do with this game......same with most manufacturers.....this is game interruptus. Dealers and manufacturers are down on their knees right now praying that this digital amp thing goes away.......too bad....its just going to keep spreading.....deal with it.

Let’s see......what do I make by promoting these things?.....a couple hundred dollars once in a while when someone sends an amp to mod?

Who do you trust? You should only trust those that have listened without having money in the game.......and then you only trust their opinion as an opinion and not as fact. The only one you should REALLY ever trust is yourself.....why do you care what others say? VTV has free shipping and 30 day money back........just try the frickin thing.......only THEN will you know something.

I will use two sources depending on system it is attached too.  I am kicking off with a 2Go/2Yu via a wired connection with a Clarus Crimson Coax cable.  I think the cable retails for more than the amp.  This is being served from my Antipodes Oladra. I just dropped that back into the system and don’t feel like swapping in the Nucleus.  I will eventually.  When it moves to that system it will be an Inakustik Coax into the amp.  I am using the Roon volume control. 

@ricevs  how do you incorporate DSD and vinyl into this? I don't like PCM.

You need to convert DSD to PCM and the same with vinyl or tape.  24/192 is pretty darn transparent......it is the sending and receiving and storage that is the problem......when doing it on the fly.....very, very little loss.

Okay, I fired it up last night and listened a little.  It generally sounded good. I did no AB comparisons and did not listen critically but tonally it is not bright and with a very easy to drive speaker (7.3ohm min impedance) there was no strain, etc…  it sounded good.  

I am going to try and complete a very fair test for it vs an NAD integrated later today.  I would expect it to wipe the floor with the NAD based on everyone’s reviews. We shall see.  I would also say the NAD sounds good in casual listening.  

Following this thread to learn more about some higher priced DACs and this digital amp from Peachtree.