Best DACs under $7,000.00

There have been some bold claims about the Cambridge unit topping some very expensive gear. My conclusion is maybe. I did not hear this type of performance, but I have limited options in terms of speaker pairing. Ultimately a huge factor is speaker choice and your personal preference.

First thing to note is that it is decidedly bright and a bit cold sounding even after a week of burn in. Maybe it needs more burn-in time. After a week, I would say that you need to be very cautious in your speaker choice and I would lean toward speakers that are warmer and more musical. Harbeth, Spendor D/Classic might be good options and maybe Wharfedale.

Soundstage size is gargantuan. If size of image is a priority, this thing delivers. It rivals Rockna in terms of image size.

Overall tonality in not just forward, but to me sounds a bit unnatural. Instrument decay is a challenge, particularly in very complex moments. I am not shocked this is a truly digital amp. With a colder more analytic speaker, this is painful. A more musical speaker mitigates this issue. That said, I do not have a price appropriate speaker here other than the B&W M1s which I am not prepared to run this test on. That is a brighter speaker and I doubt would lead to a favorable outcome. The next least expensive speakers I have to test on list for $8K a pair which is an unlikely pairing with this amp.

Finally, impedance appears to not be an issue. I paired with easy and difficult speakers and bass remained crisp an accurate, even on Kaya 45s which have a minimum impedance below 3 ohms in the bass region.

My initial reaction was fresh out of the box with my Verdant Blackthorn speakers which are carbon fiber cabinets with a magnesium driver and a ceramic magnesium tweeter. These are very revealing speakers with a focus on detail and are a hair forward. At low volumes, it was nice. It sounded good. As I got to reference levels, this became unpleasant. It was time to change speakers quickly.

I switched to my more standard reference Vivid Kaya 45 and the sound improved dramatically. That said, this speaker is still not a good match. I did my full listening test - Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, In a Sentimental Mood, Sting, Be Still My Beating Heart, Anette Askvik, Liberty, Bozio Levin Stevens, Duende and Berg String Quartet No 14 in G Major.

The soundstage width on In a Sentimental Mood is wonderful. The saxophone comes in a solid 4’ to the left of the left speaker. Good instrument separation and great detail. Drum roll is wonderful and separation is brilliant. Soundstage is huge on Be still my Beating Heart. Separation of the bells is good but Stings voice seems sibilant. Moments of complexity toward the end are awful, cold, bright and unnatural. During Liberty there are a few moments that were unpleasantly forward and there is a fundamental lack of instrumental decay. This comes through massively in Duende. Instrumental decay is not missing but sounds unnatural. And the Berg piece is not pleasant. Cold. Good instrument separation. No massing but it sounds artificially big and the strings lack warmth.

In comparison, I ran an NAD C 368 into its digital coax input. This is a pretty fair comparison as this unit retails for $1199 without the BluOS module. With the exception of instrumental separation at the beginning of Duende where the DAC on the NAD is just outmatched, I found it to be a more pleasing and enjoyable amp with the Vivids. There is a musicality and sweetness to it that is wonderful. You hear sparkle in piano and saxophone is smooth and analog sounding. No sibilance in Be Still my Beating Heart. Decay sounds smoother and more natural in Liberty and Duende and the Berg piece is pleasant. There is some massing of string but it sounds smoother and more like strings in a small space rather than in an operating room. This unit lacks the absolute scale of the Cambridge but it still sounds big and more than makes up for the slightly smaller image with improved musicality.

The NAD uses a Hypex module and they don’t publish what chip is in it but I would assume it is either a Cirrus Logic or Wolfson.

Side by side, I would take the NAD with either the Vivid or Verdant speakers. It is warmer and a better match.

So, I have another speaker here that is warmer than either Vivid or Verdant. The Perlisten S4b. Despite the Beryllium tweeter, it is a neutral to warm and surprisingly musical speaker. This is much better with the Cambridge. Everything sounds a little softer and more musical. Separation of instruments remains. Soundstage is huge but instrumental decay sounds much more natural on In a Sentimental Mood. Toward the end of Be Still My Beating Heart there are a few moments I winced as this remained forward and a hair digital sounding at moments where there was a lot complexity. Almost like the amp/DAC was overwhelmed with data. Overall, much more pleasant than with the Vivid or my Verdant Speakers. Liberty and Duende sound much more natural. There are moments the piano sounds a touch colder than it should in Liberty but other moments it sounds flawless. The Berg piece sounded natural and musical.

In comparison, the NAD sounds a bit dark and recessed on the Perlistens. Piano lacks sparkle and is quite flat. Everything sounds like the tweeter is slightly muffled. Separation and detail are relatively poor but it still sounds musical. That said, NAD vs Cambridge with Perlisten, it is easy to pick Cambridge.

The improvement from Vivid to Perlisten was so great it is what is driving my "maybe" above.  I do not have a speaker here that is quite the right fit.  I do think it is possible to get a lot more performance out of this amp.  Alternatively, I think that I extracted every drop of performance possible from the NAD in its test with the Vivids.  

Now, for the less fair comparison. Since it has been claimed this can replace a $15K system, I decided to run it vs an AGD Alto Preamp ($5K), Tempo Amp ($5500) and Chord Hugo 2 DAC w/ 2Go which retails for $4500. Given the poor performance on other speakers, I chose to do the comparison on the Perlistens. AGD pioneered the utilization of GANFETs in audio and make a very musical and engaging amp.

The Cambridge delivers more scale in terms of soundstage. It is inferior in every other way. Soundstage depth and stability is better with the Chord. Instrument separation, decay sounding natural, noise floor, and general musicality of the sound is far superior with the Chord/AGD combination. If you are familiar with my review of these DACs, the critique of Chord is the scale of the soundstage. The image doesn’t extend well beyond the boundary of the speakers but it is incredibly musical and detailed and no one is better between the speakers than Chord. That holds here. If you are a junky for soundstage scale, this would disappoint but it is much more enjoyable in every other way.

To get less fair, I also have an Oppo Modwright UDP-205 here being fed by the 2Go/2Yu. This is a DAC that is currently selling in the used market (new units aren’t available) for between $4k and $4500. This unit mods the Oppo to add an outboard power supply and a tube based output stage.

I will be updating the audio shootout because this DAC is great. With 2Go/2Yu feeding it, the price is $6500 to $7K putting it in the beefy part of relevance for this thread. This unit is phenomenal. At least into the AGDs and Perlisten speakers, Soundstage is BIG. Maybe lacks the raw scale of the Cambridge but the image extends well beyond the speakers. Separation of instruments is great and depth is very good. Detail is maybe not at the same level as Chord but probably the same as Audiobyte. The liquidity and musicality of this combination is stunning. This is so far superior to the Cambridge, it is difficult to explain. In fairness, this AGD/Perlisten/Oppo-Modwright combo is unusually good and feels like a system that is delivering above its pricepoint.

In conclusion, I will continue to run the Cambridge to see if additional burn-in time helps. I am not prepared to call this a giant killer as I just haven't heard it. When put up against well matched systems at higher price points, the Cambridge does not compete.  

Everyone has their own taste, and I would recommend this amp. Just to specific tastes with specific speakers. The soundstage is massive and detail is impressive and these two things can lead to short term wows but this unit struggles at moments. I would say the same thing about the NAD and it struggles as well. It is far from the ultimate amp to drive Vivids.  The Cambridge seems like a fairly priced amp that I believe will pair well and deliver with class appropriate warmer speakers.

Finally, I will follow up with a test of this amp on my Wilson Benesch Discovery 3Zeros as they are definitely a neutral speaker but my hunch is this won’t go well. I think the Cambridge needs a warm but slightly forgiving speaker to make it shine like the sun. One thing the WBs are not is forgiving.

I assume you mean Peachtree and not Cambridge?  Will be interesting when I get the GaN1 here next week and start listening and modding it.  I am sure it will sound quite a bit better with mods......also, I will be modding the VTV D300 soon which uses a more powerful version of the board that is in the GaN1 and also uses a completely different higher power power supply.......fun times ahead.

Did you try different spdif cables and footers and damped weight on top and power cords?  There are so many things that can change the sound dramatically.

Oh god…yes Peachtree.  Not sure why I was thinking Cambridge.  I was tired last night when I wrote that.  
 

i used a Clarus Crimson Coax cable for all tests out of the Chord 2Go/2Yu and was using Clarus Aqua speaker cables.  Both are well broken in. I used a Puritan Ultimate XX power cable.  I used same cables for Peachtree and NAD along with AGD and Modwright.  All ICs were Clarus Crimson.  The lone exception was the Chord Hugo 2 where I had to use Kimber Tonic ICs as Clarus terminations won’t. Fit.  
 

I did not do any tweaks or use and kind of footer on the Peachtree.  The amp sat on a rack in the shelf by itself.  I removed it and swapped NAD in.  

The GAN1 did not sound anything like this to me, but I only had 12 hours on mine. On my well broken in LS50 Meta speakers the sound was a little rolled off and not as clear as my Benchmark stack. The Benchmark stack is likely considered too neutral by a lot of people, but perfect for my ears, LA4 preamp | AHB2 monos | slightly warm Musetec 005 DAC | Audience FrontRow speaker cable | Audience AU24SE XLR and RCA | Fibre streaming.

On my much cleaner sounding RAAL SR1a earphone, via an RAAL adapter box, Audience AU24SX speaker cables, a brand new WyWire "Silver" SPDIF cable extending out the previously mentioned Fibre streaming, the GAN1 sound was amazing. The very best of 2-channel gear on these earphones which will show everything in the chain. This was better than the $30K warm system I sold that was the prior very best 2-channel with the SR1a, CODA 07x preamp | KRELL DUO 175XD amp or CODA #8 amp | Musetec 005 DAC | Audience FrontRow speaker cable | same streaming as before.

The current draw on the amp using this adapter box approach was more current usage than with my Thiel CS3.7 speakers (sold). The amp gets a workout. I know this because my old CODA #8 amp had meters and that showed the current draw between the SR1a and the Thiel CS3.7.

My 2-channel gear can only get you so far with the SR1a because of the adapter box. It can never approach the best dedicated SR1a amp. The GAN1 so far is the 2nd best sound I have on the SR1a. Hopefully it does not get bright with more break-in. Though I have never had an amp go from rolled off sounding (my opinion) to bright. I expect a bit more clarity on top and would be shocked it got beyond a neutral level.

@yyzsantabarbara fascinating that you are having a different experience.  I am curious what will happen in a week as I found the GAN1 more pleasant out of the box than after a week. Maybe another week will soften it a little.  I only have maybe 180 hours on it at this point and things don’t completely settle for 500 hours technically.  
 

@verdantaudio I know that you have done extensive testing with DACs and I have read almost everything you wrote here about it. It was very informative. I believe what you are hearing today with the GAN1.

I have done "amp rolling" with my RAAL SR1a earphones over the last 2 years. I have a very high opinion of them, and I wanted to find the best gear for them. I tried 10 2-channel amps with them, $2K - $11K range.

One thing that was a factor in my evaluations was my physical reaction via ear fatigue. I get fatigue easily with bad sound and the SR1a can bring that on with a bad pairing. The only amps that did not cause any fatigue were the KRELL 175XD, CODA #8, and Parasound A21+, I attributed that to the slight warmth of the amp, preamp, and DAC.

The GAN1 trumped those 3 amps with the SR1a, it sounded the best. Thus, I do not think of it as bright. My ears would have been screaming, especially since I was testing with hard rock/heavy metal to purposefully try and cause ear pain.

@yyzsantabarbara i trust you too.  That is what surprised me about this.  I am very interested to see how your unit burns in.  

@verdantaudio  Scott,  Hmm.... believing in Santa... troubling. 

Believing in Barbara is even more risky!

I don’t get why the Ayon line of DACs are not mentioned more often.  The Stealth XS DAC sounds amazing.  Pair it with a high quality power cord and its sound is outstanding.  It is open and detailed which is why a good power cord is needed to keep the highs on some recordings from being too edgy.  It creates a giant soundstage, the decay goes on forever- more in most cases than on my vinyl recordings.  I close my eyes to listen and the soundstage goes wide and deep.  I open my eyes and suddenly walls are in the middle of the soundstage.  I love doing that, it works every time.  The detail and resolution in CDs with this DAC is way more than I ever thought possible from digital.  To me this DAC is the biggest open secret in audio.

I heard a couple of big name, big dollar DACs in November.  Came home even more satisfied with my Stealth XS.

@tonywinga I have no doubt that the Ayon Stealth XS DAC is as good as you say it is. About a decade ago I had an Ayon Triton II KT-88 integrated amp that I LOVED the sonics of.
But I think you may not see as much as you’d like to see of Ayon in this forum, might be because of many individual issues over the years involving their CD players/transports, as well as a couple or few integrated models. Ayon or USA Tube didn’t always —or were unable to— fix the issues. More than a few ended up with a CD5s brick. These varying things over the last decade may of made people weary and simply look elsewhere. 

It’s nice to see that Ayon is still around and I’m sure they have good business in their area of the world but the reliability and their ability to repair their own gear has been in question before around here... With that said, I did have a channel go out on my Triton int. early on and I was offered a very very good price difference, from USATube, to upgrade to the just new Triton II at that time. So my experience with them was good. 

Good to know.  Customer service after the sale is just as important as performance.  I'm at 2 years/2500 hours with my Stealth XS.  My CD transport has much fewer hours since I stream mostly these days.  So far, all has been good.  I hope I haven't jinxed myself.  My 2 year warranty runs out this month.

All of my gear is US made except for this DAC and Transport.  I have had issues over the years with amps, preamps, turntables, speakers and CD players.  My experience has been that the US companies- at least the brands I have,  fall all over themselves to fix a problem regardless of being in warranty or out of warranty.  They value reputation.  

I’ll add this.  I cracked open the DAC once to take a look around inside and to add tube dampers- just because.  I found the build quality and workmanship to be outstanding.  I have a picture of the innards on my system page.  

@gregjacob 

I have been eyeing the TA200, had the Terminator and May before.

I use hqplayer and that allows you through the use of filters and modulators to alter the sound signature of a no tube dac if you like to experiment, now you need a computer for this and it's a complete different rabbit hole.

The 1 bit dsd 1024 is what I'm after 

@luisma31 The T& A 200 is a wonderful DAC and I'm pretty sure it does DSD 1024.

@klh007 yeah I know, I was just confirming I was after that :) I know it does support it

I get it...we all have a limit based on perceptions of value added etc.

I will say that one of the finest DAC's out there is the Bracasti M3.  Around $5,000 new and it definitely elevates the sound quality of music in a noticable way!

Cheers,

Paul

Next round with the Peachtree - it is MUCH better than last time.  I must have tested this at just the wrong time.  Cycling through speakers and still has a tiny bit of etchiness in the treble on the Perlistens.  But noticeably better.  Still don't like it with the Vivids or Verdants.  I can't call this amp neutral but it is nowhere near as bright as it was two weeks ago.   

I spent two more hours testing this.  It is fine.  Sounds good but I legit don't get the giant killer mindset.  Maybe it needs another week?  Maybe it is the speakers I am using.  It's a good amp.  Just not elite and certainly isn't competitive with cost-no-object gear. 

I am curious how this has evolved for other critical listeners.  The one big caveat is this amp is dryer than I like.  I much prefer a more liquid and tubey sound so this is definitely a poor match for my taste.  It is like asking someone to judge a peated whiskey when they prefer Speysides.  I can offer an opinion but if I dislike it somewhat fundamentally, it is tough for me to be fair.  

I have a notes on this listening session I can post but opted not to as it was just too wordy.  

Could anyone who has auditioned the T+A Dac 200 comment on the sound while playing non upsampled redbook CDs, in the range of warm, neutral and bright. 

The DAC looks interesting.  I'm looking for neutral, not too forward.

Thanks!

verdantaudio, 

Fired up a GaN1 here 2 days ago....and did not like it....it already had some hours on it.  Then I upgraded the AC power.....OMG....completely different amp....way more liquid and real.  I have three more mods to try and should have them all done by this weekend.  I have never heard such an improvement from upgrading the AC power signal path before.  This mod alone would blow people away.  Cannot wait to do more.

I haven't heard the Peachtree, but I have heard both Technics GaN integrated amps.  They are both unbelievably good.  I've also got LTA, McGary and Backert Labs in the house for comparisons.  With the right speakers, I'd put the SU R-1000 up against nearly anything under 20K.  Like all things, it's always a matter of preference in presentation, but one boutique speaker manufacturer recommends the smaller Technics amps (G700M2) with his speakers that cost more than 5X the amp.

@ricevs I definitely used an upgraded power cord but I think it was a Puritan Ultimate XX in both cases.  I see your point where the right cable might make a difference.  I will give it a try with an Audioquest Thunder.  I also might step back the Digital Coax I am using.  Thinking that maybe the Inakustik is just a bit too open.  

Sorry, I was not talking about the power cord to the unit.....but the AC receptacle, switch, fuse, and wiring to the power supply board INSIDE the amp:....Eliminated the switch (already has a switch on the front panel), eliminated the fuse (already has a fuse on the power supply board (which I have not upgraded....YET), and changed the inlet to Furutech and upgraded the input wire and hardwired it to the power supply board (no connector). I did this exact mod to the LSA Voyager GaN amp and it made it a little better....but this was mind blowing. Probably because the stock parts were so bad and the fact that the signal path is so short (no DAC, no preamp, no analog cables).....so whatever you do to this ONE thang....it makes a serious improvement.  I should have most mods done by this weekend and will post all info on my website.

For external power I am using a Goal Zero Inverter and my own hand made power cord. You HAVE to GET OFF the Grid. Please read my thing on my website about using the Giandel 5000 watt inverter, etc. (When I get the money, I am getting a Giandel....it is worlds better than the Goal Zero thing I have). Yes, the Puritan line filter improves it more....and modding the Puritan takes it further (just now getting in the Furutech NCF jacks to mod another Puritan).

@ricevs I trust that modding this unit is going to have a positive impact.  It has a foundational scale to the image that is impressive.  Issues were with tonality so if that can be corrected....

That said, modding is not my business.  Going to be selling this unit.  

I stated earlier that dealers and manufacturers are NOT going to like this technology.. No matter how good it sounds with all the mods.......it is toooooo dang cheap to make any money off off. You cannot sell DACs, preamps, or normal heavy amps, nor analog cables and all the extra power cords and footers and racks needed. Manufacturers will be hesitant to embrace this technology because they have stock of their heavy big expensive things they need to sell. But imagine what a powered speaker would sound like with tweaked modules inside and digital xover inside.....OMG. Of course you can do this externally by using multiple amps and using a Minidsp Flex or other digital xover. For those willing to try something new......this is the Cat’s Meow. Run one of these modded things on a Giandel inverter with a modified Puritan line filter and have your own ground rod with filtering.....OMG times infinity!!!!!!....and you can make your own speakers so easily that will best practically anything in the world. What fun!

Your enthusiasm is great for you and for others willing to mod things.  You could resell these modded units or have people pay for you to mod them.  Great business for you.  But for those of us who have minimal interest in modding things, whether it be lack of familiarity to some folks who are nervous about soldering, etc... This is fools gold without modifications it is a fairly price amp that presents a good value vs its competition.  Not significantly better than other units available and when you take into account it lacks a volume control, it can just be a giant PITA.  

I may reach out to Peachtree and I would consider being a dealer but I can't see this amp being as disruptive as you see it being.  It needs to be elevated.  The technology could be extremely disruptive.  I am VERY interested in an elevated version of this.  Change will happen if it makes sense for consumers.  The market will change.  Those that don't embrace change will die.  Those that do will thrive.  

or other options?

1. Audio-GD – R7HE mk2

2. SMSL VMV D3

@ricevs

Definitely interested in the mods for the Puritan outlets and will be checking in to see how they are implemented...

Wig😀

Mods now done to the Peachtree GaN1 amp......This ($2000 with mods) PowerDAC is now outrageous.  Info on Peachtree amp thread and on my website.  

I’ve been running a AudioGD R7HE Mk2 since late last year and it hands down beats my previous best, an Accurate Studio Audio DAC-1000 (Rockna Wavedream knockoff) which in turn bettered my prior Abbas Audio DAC 2.2SE in most areas. Definitely not a fan of the Musician Aquarius. That was just too polite Andrew digital sounding.

My streaming chain is Network Acoustics Muon Pro streaming system > Accurate Studio Audio MBS-S800 streamer > Gieseler Audio Reinigen > AudioGD DI20HE DDC > AudioGD R7HE Mk2 > Absolute Audio Labs ASL-1Z pre > Absolute Audio Labs SIT-A15 VFET power amp > Lii Song Platinum-10 based speakers in humongous custom “Emperor” bass reflex cabinets build by Andrew Tilsley of Creation Audio.

DDC and DAC are both clock synced from an Afterdark Emperor Double Crown OCXO clock.

Running Duelund tinned copper power cables, Duelund pure silver 50ohm clock cables, Gothic Audio Semperfi “The Outsider” USB cables, Tubulus Concentus I2S cable and FoilFlex RCA & speaker cables.

I won’t both going into network tweak’s prior to the streamer etc s just too much to list. My streaming setup surpassed what my CEC TL5 CD transport was capable of quite some time ago. I can confirm the Stereophile review is spot on if a bit flowery and long winded. Great recordings are as always singing though what is most impressive is how even poor recordings are lifted significantly releasing the natural tones and timbres in the recordings exposing a lot of instrumentation and background covers ruins  which were just never even hinted at before. The DAC doesn’t seem to have a colour of its own yet instruments are full bodied and impactful where called for or gentle and nuanced. Some recordings have a massive sense of scale while others are smaller, it’s just nuts. It has the qualities I love about analog playback with none of the shortcomings, just allowing me to get closer to the recording itself and damn but isn’t engaging. Anyway I could go on and on but better leave it at that other than to say the optical input is also amazingly good for TV. Once more I’ve never heard better.

 Cheers guys.

Mcintosh MDA200