Are there other people like me ? Amazed by their low cost system :)

"And BTW, who is this Jay guy you are referring to?"

@yogiboy I think he must be referring to a reviewer on YT who posts videos as Jay's Iyagi. For example:

Someone who was certain they were satisfied might not be tempted to ask this question.

To be an audiophile, one doesn’t need to have Elon Musk type resources.  You just have to appreciate good sound.  It’s more of a challenge to achieve this with limited resources.  Yes, system matching, synergies, etc matter, but honestly if one spends megabucks on each component the odds are that it will sound good, if not perhaps realizing the full potential of the resources expended.  And while there is a lot of really good sounding mid Fi gear available compared to decades of yore, here it becomes more of a challenge to match components, etc.  The budget audiophiles get sneared at a lot, and there are some eccentrics who play in that corner of the sandbox.  However there are many who really know what they are doing 

So, I love my curated, a.k.a. hodgepodge system. It’s not expensive by high end standards, but I love listening to all genres on it. It’s far from perfect.  I get to hear a lot of high dollar systems through my local audio club, and rarely do I feel any regrets about my own system. Does the 6 figure system feeding a pair of Magicos sound better than my rig? Of course it does. But I can listen to that system, go home, fire up my rig, and still enjoy the music. And that’s why I got into the hobby; because I love music. Sure, I drool over expensive gear and have my Lottery winner’s system all picked out. But when I hear a well recorded tune on my system, I really couldn’t wish for more. I am sure my acoustics aren’t ideal, although my room and a/c power are pretty quiet. Others have heard my system. Some liked it, some didn’t. I couldn’t care less.

I am pretty amazed by how much music can come out of vintage and/or inexpensive gear when you get things out of the way (inside) that make them sound worse.

I am also amazed how inexpensive gear can fulfill an intended purpose: musical wallpaper, surround yourself with something(s) familiar, share a tune, provide a musical upgrade over cheap earbuds, etc.  A rough facsimile of a performance is better than no performance in the "right" situation, provided enough rough burrs are filed off.

Someone who was certain they were satisfied might not be tempted to ask this question.

We are a family and we speak with one another...😊

I am curious about others experience with their relatively low cost system...

I just had Bill Gates on the phone yesterday...Yes he phoned me ...He has read my audiogon posts😉

Guess what ? He just sold his more than one million dollars system and just bought a ridiculously cheaper system valued to 88,000 bucks after reading all my posts , he declared that he understand perfectly now how a well embedded system , mechanically, electrically and especially acoustically is not so much far from a more costlier one... And he confirm to me that psychoacoustics at the end matter as much as gear design price tag...

For sure his one million bucks system was slightly better by design but he decided to use the difference in money with his new 88,000 bucks system to serves and help those who suffer from ..... here i must stay silent about those who need help from him ...😁

Then instead of doubting my level of satisfaction as a poster of Audiogon , because it is a philosophical sophistry anyway to ask someone to doubt himself and doubt his satisfaction and pride because he cannot be supposedly completely satisfied enough because we must compared his system with better system and to the best possible on earth which for sure exist ... 😁

Projecting on me your own motives to speak which are your own doubts about yourself and your system, is pure sophistry at worst; at beast erroneous reading about my arguments : the controls of the mechanical,electrical and acoustical embeddings of any piece of gear in their house/room/ears-brain working dimensions matter as much as the price tags of the gear piece to begin with...

Then audiophile minimal acoustical satisfaction state and threshold exist... I am there... It is enough for me... I am satisfied acoustically ...

Some others as mikelavigne for example are on the maximal acoustical satisfaction state and threshold...I dont doubt his superior state of satisfaction .. ( i know enough to know why he is right ) 😊

Why criticizing me then for saying elementary truth and why doubting my intention here , projecting on me your own unsecurities because you dont really understand what you do...

Acoustics with an "s" rule audio, not price tags...Period...

For me there exist two levels of audiophile experience defined by the same acoustics factors general balance : the minimal threshold or the maximal threshold with the same optimization methods in the two cases in the mechanical, electrical and acoustical working dimensions...

For sure my chinese low cost tube amplifier does not compete with atmasphere superior design...

This does not means that when it is well embedded with right synergy with other pieces of gear it will and must be audio trash ... Not at all ... But it is not at all the maximal acoustic level of experience... But trust me it may be the minimal level of acoustical satisfaction ...

Mechanical, electrical and acoustical basic knowledge work and matter as much as design price tags ...

😊Well said....thanks...

We are happy people and we had done our best to be there ...

So, I love my curated, a.k.a. hodgepodge system. It’s not expensive by high end standards, but I love listening to all genres on it. It’s far from perfect. I get to hear a lot of high dollar systems through my local audio club, and rarely do I feel any regrets about my own system. Does the 6 figure system feeding a pair of Magicos sound better than my rig? Of course it does. But I can listen to that system, go home, fire up my rig, and still enjoy the music. And that’s why I got into the hobby; because I love music. Sure, I drool over expensive gear and have my Lottery winner’s system all picked out. But when I hear a well recorded tune on my system, I really couldn’t wish for more. I am sure my acoustics aren’t ideal, although my room and a/c power are pretty quiet. Others have heard my system. Some liked it, some didn’t. I couldn’t care less.

 it seems we are a little "crowd" of deluded or perhaps "inspired" and "informed" people ...

 my Sansui vintage alpha 607 i  do well  for 300 bucks and my AKG K340 for 100 bucks modified are very good... As you i bought vintage pieces because of the ratio S.Q. /low cost...

I am pretty amazed by how much music can come out of vintage and/or inexpensive gear when you get things out of the way (inside) that make them sound worse.

I am also amazed how inexpensive gear can fulfill an intended purpose: musical wallpaper, surround yourself with something(s) familiar, share a tune, provide a musical upgrade over cheap earbuds, etc.  A rough facsimile of a performance is better than no performance in the "right" situation, provided enough rough burrs are filed off.

I’m with you @mahgister . I have found that the difference between a good system and a great system as far less than the difference between a good room and a bad room, or a good recording and a bad recording.

I recently saw an interview on the audiophiliac with David Chesky, a musician, producer, and record company owner. And he said something to the effect that recordings can be like a photo with extra vivid colors, which I took to mean that they can be kind of an enhanced reality. I agree with this. Most live music actually has rather subpar sound and seldom sets off aural fireworks for me. The performance and the music itself are the focus. Chesky also suggested that recorded music is essentially an artificial experience that can be crafted in many different ways. All of this is good to bear in mind when we start to get too carried away, telling ourselves that we are on a search for “truth”.

You are so right that i invite people to meditate your post observations...

Thanks for Chesky very astute observation with which i am in complete approval and understanding... And he knows way better than me then i am glad to be confirmed on this opinion... Not because i had doubts about it. i studied acoustics enough to know he is right. but it is fun to not be alone and be in the same circle of opinions as a reputed musician and acoustician  ...Thanks to you ...

I’m with you @mahgister . I have found that the difference between a good system and a great system as far less than the difference between a good room and a bad room, or a good recording and a bad recording.

I recently saw an interview on the audiophiliac with David Chesky, a musician, producer, and record company owner. And he said something to the effect that recordings can be like a photo with extra vivid colors, which I took to mean that they can be kind of an enhanced reality. I agree with this. Most live music actually has rather subpar sound and seldom sets off aural fireworks for me. The performance and the music itself are the focus. Chesky also suggested that recorded music is essentially an artificial experience that can be crafted in many different ways. All of this is good to bear in mind when we start to get too carried away, telling ourselves that we are on a search for “truth”.

phillyspecial

6 posts

03-06-2024 at 07:23am

"And BTW, who is this Jay guy you are referring to?"

@yogiboy I think he must be referring to a reviewer on YT who posts videos as Jay’s Iyagi. For example:

When i spoke about Jay i spoke about this Jay :

( the reason i spoke about him is the fact of his honesty and he knows a lot about high end gear and in this video he spoke about the fundamental importance of acoustics here room acoustic...He goes in his reviews on audiogon before his youtube  without room dedicated acoustics for years though and discovered his importance lately )

Acoustics rule audio acoustic perception as much as the gear design ... Thats my point... Nevermind the price paid you cannot optimize your gear  and put it at their optimal peak level of quality without acoustics, without electrical grid of the house and room  and connectors and cables workings controls   and without resonance and vibrations controls  and at the end unbeknowst to most  you cannot go  without crosstalk controls with Dr. Choueiri filters design ...And you cannot do without psychoacoustics measurements either... 😊

All I said was, "Someone who was certain they were satisfied might not be tempted to ask this question." Pretty benign statement. Easy to agree with. No one here is certain. You're not certain. I'm not certain. I can admit that. The length of your reply speaks volumes. 

All I said was, "Someone who was certain they were satisfied might not be tempted to ask this question." Pretty benign statement. Easy to agree with. No one here is certain. You’re not certain. I’m not certain. I can admit that. The length of your reply speaks volumes.

The level of your own misreading speak volume: i am certain than i am happy acoustically yes...😊 I am certain that better experience than mine exist over my own acoustic ectasy yes..😂.But mine is enough for me...😎And some others feel the same and i am curious about their reasons and their systems ...I stated my own very precise reasons to be happy with what i have ...

Then read me with no projected suspicions about my thread intention ...Dont use innuendos... Insinuating that opening this thread suppose self doubts is false and projection of your part. Period. Others than you here claimed the same and you came after repeating this innuendos ... I answered ...Not only i had no doubts about what i said but i am full of pride...I make myself my own acoustic heaven at the best possible cost... I apologize for my excess pride for sure... I am guilty of that...😁

What i said since i am in Audiogon 8 years ago and is resumed in my virtual page title had never changed but was confirmed by all my experiments ... It is clear as water... ...

By the way i generally admire all your posts then i apologize to be so direct and straight in my answer to you ... 😊

In answer to the question, Yes!  I have always been proud of putting together good sounding systems for comparatively low $$$. I have rarely bought new equipment, kept current thru the audio press, but, most importantly, as a musician I know what instruments and singers sound like live. That has always been my benchmark. 

I will admit that my current system has cost more than most people would spend. But not too much more. I couldn’t afford this rig new. Musicians I’ve had in to hear it - jaws drop. 

I do like to hear other “fellow travelers’” systems.  Many are stunning. In the end, my ears are happy.  It’s fun to tweak the room and speaker positioning to find that little bit more.  Can’t do the “Full Mahgister” 😉 but still interesting. 

For sure i admire you and i believe you...

because i did the same in my own way...

Creativity and acoustics matter for happiness ... Anything else is budget limits and self doubts by ignorance and marketing conditioning ...

It is fun to have a joyful celebrating and explaining "why we are happy"  thread !

😋

In answer to the question, Yes! I have always been proud of putting together good sounding systems for comparatively low $$$. I have rarely bought new equipment, kept current thru the audio press, but, most importantly, as a musician I know what instruments and singers sound like live. That has always been my benchmark.

I will admit that my current system has cost more than most people would spend. But not too much more. I couldn’t afford this rig new. Musicians I’ve had in to hear it - jaws drop.

I do like to hear other “fellow travelers’” systems. Many are stunning. In the end, my ears are happy. It’s fun to tweak the room and speaker positioning to find that little bit more. Can’t do the “Full Mahgister” 😉 but still interesting.

After I had the opportunity to listen to an $800K system in an extremely well engineered listening environment, then came home and listened to my $60K system in my small well treated listening space, I was grinning from ear to ear. I have done well for my audio needs and desires. That trip was validation for me. 

This post will be informative to any beginners...Thanks to you

...

In fact i read the same kind of post 12 years ago when i was in desperation and frustration because i did not have the money to buy a high end costly system...

Then reading a similar posters saying the same things i decide to study basic acoustical,electrical and mechanical principles and ideas, and i begun experimenting with what i have as gear pieces , instead of dreaming about high end gear reviews and entereing in despair because i would never been able to affford it anyway,...

I discovered then what i must do slowly... One experiments at a time ...I succeeded as you did... For + or - the same reason...😊 Basic principle may varied but do not change...

After I had the opportunity to listen to an $800K system in an extremely well engineered listening environment, then came home and listened to my $60K system in my small well treated listening space, I was grinning from ear to ear. I have done well for my audio needs and desires. That trip was validation for me.

@mahgister Thank you, I actually enjoy the challenges and doing more with less$$$$ is quite gratifying. I also have a wife that would kill me if I spent even $120k on my systems. Personally we enjoy doing charitable work, traveling, will have more disposable income once our last two graduates university, one in May!,

😉

I am married too ...My wife is not audiophile as i am but more a musician which alas! i am not ( the reason appear to me late in life i perceived more sound as a story and by forms dynamic with my eyes than as sound isolated tones, music is more movies moving forms than sound as tones for me in a way , it is why acoustics interested me so much )...

She was persuaded i was completely mad in a madhouse when she observed my acoustic room slow construction and changed his mind listening to it at the end...

Anyway we are often in love with wiser woman who think we must be "mad" but may be anyway useful husband ... 😉 I married her after writing his philosophy examination the night before giving it and i am still very proud of the maximum grade she received finally after one hour questioning for plagiary which was disproved because i briefed her before the oral examination and she had a good memory and are very bright soul ... 😊 We are together since that 50 years ago ... She was never interested in philosophy by the way but by linguistic. she studies two languages right now ...

By the way audiophile experience is not about perfect sound at all cost, it is about the best sound ratio for money invested with the help of basic knowledge ...

Anything else is ignorance mixed with deep pocket and consumerism marketing ..

If i had budget for sure i will add more higher cost gear but i will do it in the samw way i do it with less costly gear, acoustics and psychoacoustics, and others embeddings controls dont change ... And it will be for sure maximal acoustic satisfaction but anybody can be in ectasy with minimal acoustic satisfaction...

Why ?

Because minimal and maximal satisfaction resulted from a BALANCE between acoustic factors... But with more high end gear designed pieces some limitations disapear and the balance is renewed on a higher acoustic level ...

The key concept is balance...

In the two cases the goal is the same : retrieving the original various acoustics recorded trade off from any albums perceived as it was in our system/room ...

i had it but i dont doubt that mikelavigne system do it better... And i know why it is such... It is why i know exactly what pieces of my system to upgrade first if i want how to embed it and with the right pieces of gear...

As stated by mikelavigne wise audio experience : audiophilia is more about a  state of mind than about price tags...

@mahgister Thank you, I actually enjoy the challenges and doing more with less$$$$ is quite gratifying. I also have a wife that would kill me if I spent even $120k on my systems. Personally we enjoy doing charitable work, traveling, will have more disposable income once our last two graduates university, one in May!,

So then, with less than $6K invested (using a 22 year old Yamaha RX-Z9 receiver, in "Pure Direct" mode, purchased new with over 30K hours on it now), plus countless hours of speaker development/tweaking (in the room they are used in), and an Oppo95 SACD...,

When people who do listen to systems say it sounds better than some six figure systems they’ve heard, we’ve met the goal?

I’ve never heard a system that throws a soundstage so big and precise, and I’ve heard Magicos, Focal, etc. and I have JBL L200/300s, L112s, One-Off Altec Big Red Supers (furniture-grade, 15.5 cu ft ext vol, custom made, tri-amped), Chartwell LS3/5As), and anyone in Orange County, CA is welcome to come by and hear it for themselves.

Then read me with no projected suspicions about my thread intention ...Dont use innuendos.

Relax. 

Most people outside these "high-end" parts would not consider my stuff low cost. For example, I just got a nice deal on a pair of mint Sonus Faber’s from someone locally (compared to other popular options you might read as touted here), but even then still more than most people would ever shell out for a pair of speakers. It’s really not hard at all to get top notch sound for modest cost these days, even with a very modest budget and very high audiophile-level type expectations going in. It just requires doing your homework and a lot of patience perhaps.

If headphones are sufficient to meet one’s needs, you really have it made! Do the homework and find that ~$150 for ear monitors and dongle + an existing Smartphone or tablet with streaming can get you sound that is reference standard by any objective measure quite easily. That would be the absolute lowest cost setup I could identify that is capable of providing reference quality sound. Disclaimer: reference quality may not be to everyone’s liking. That is more a matter of personal preference. In that case, it’s even easier, you just buy whatever sounds good to you and that’s all that matters.

You are right... i sometimes (often) overeacted ... 😊😁

But i think you know me perhaps better than me  ... 😊

Then read me with no projected suspicions about my thread intention ...Dont use innuendos.

Relax.

Your post is a stunning example for all... Congratulations! and my thanks for your experience communication and invitation... ... I wish i could go alas! ...It will be an encouragement  for beginners to think a bit  and experimented a bit BEFORE upgrading too rapidly ...

My best to you ...

So then, with less than $6K invested (using a 22 year old Yamaha RX-Z9 receiver, in "Pure Direct" mode, purchased new with over 30K hours on it now), plus countless hours of speaker development/tweaking (in the room they are used in), and an Oppo95 SACD...,

When people who do listen to systems say it sounds better than some six figure systems they’ve heard, we’ve met the goal?

I’ve never heard a system that throws a soundstage so big and precise, and I’ve heard Magicos, Focal, etc. and I have JBL L200/300s, L112s, One-Off Altec Big Red Supers (furniture-grade, 15.5 cu ft ext vol, custom made, tri-amped), Chartwell LS3/5As), and anyone in Orange County, CA is welcome to come by and hear it for themselves

I cannot contradict mapman wise post...

😁

Most people outside these "high-end" parts would not consider my stuff low cost. For example, I just got a nice deal on a pair of mint Sonus Faber’s from someone locally (compared to other popular options you might read as touted here), but even then still more than most people would ever shell out for a pair of speakers. It’s really not hard at all to get top notch sound for modest cost these days, even with a very modest budget and very high audiophile-level type expectations going in. It just requires doing your homework and a lot of patience perhaps.

If headphones are sufficient to meet one’s needs, you really have it made! Do the homework and find that ~$150 for ear monitors and dongle + an existing Smartphone or tablet with streaming can get you sound that is reference standard by any objective measure quite easily. That would be the absolute lowest cost setup I could identify that is capable of providing reference quality sound. Disclaimer: reference quality may not be to everyone’s liking. That is more a matter of personal preference. In that case, it’s even easier, you just buy whatever sounds good to you and that’s all that matters.

Went through a few posts here and the only conclusion I came to is that you are offended by whatever words others choose.

+1 @milpai  .

It is not wrong... 😊

+2 immatthewj

As i said i had a reactive temper... No one is perfect ... But i dont doubt myself ... And i dont need others opinions about my sound experience in my room ... I just like discussing sincerely and reading others similar experience  ...Especially since my retirement ...

Went through a few posts here and the only conclusion I came to is that you are offended by whatever words others choose.

+1 @milpai .

My thread intention then i hope it is now clear, was only that : a celebration by some of us about our relative successes in the scale ratio S.Q. /low cost, and the pleasurable occasion to read others explanations about this relative success i called : the minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold and level ... 😊

This is also meant to be  an invitation for the beginners to think BEFORE upgrading too prematurely BEFORE trying experiments  or uselessly if they are not in the ideal room condition anyway  ...

Define "low cost.'Mine, by my reckoning, is high value and reasonable cost;but I couldn't have afforded any more. And it was actually going out on a limb to get what I wanted and that's; with a preamp I've had for 20 years! so my amp was like $1500, speakers something like $3k, CD Player - that  I hardly use anymore but was primary when I bought it 7 years ago or so - $500, streamer $700, cables about $400, stands $500; so about, what, $6600 all-in new? To most people that's A LOT, to others, it's being cheap and doesn't sound good lol. For me, it's nigh on perfect, certainly for the investment.   

Low cost here is a relative notion i refuse to precise...

In my exemple above i spoke about Bill Gates reading my advices about embeddings controls of the mechanical, electrical and acoustical dimensions and discovering that a 88,000 bucks system almost rival his one million bucks system...😁 For sure it is an audio parable... 😊

For him 88,000 is very low cost...It is peanuts...

For us reading this we understand that before upgrading we must learn how to realize our dream at a favorable ratio in the scale S.Q. /price when going with our budget which is different for everyone...

But as i said the minimal acoustical threshold of satisfaction and level is characterized by the same acoustics factors at play : timbre, distortion, spatial qualities of the sound and of the soundfield and immersiveness grosso modo... There is many others secondary factors and qualities which are all important and they all must manifested together some balance ratio for an optimized perceptive experience of any stereo recordings..

This is what matter , the knowledge behind these factors and their controls multidimensional parameters...

It is why speaking of price tags has absolutely almost no meaning in audio... The common place fact that better design cost more is only that a common place fact which is useless if we dont learn how to embed rightfully any system at any price to begin with once synergy between some chosen gear is reach for sure...No embeddings controls will replace synergy and vice versa.

Then your post is very useful and can reveal that acoustic happiness can be done at this price : 6,600 bucks and we can be satisfied with no frustration at this level...

This does not means that we cannot do better ... Toward a way greater results with more money or toward a better or equal results with less money ... ( my 2 different systems were 1000 bucks value speakers and headphone included and unbeatable in my opinion with less money and hard to beat even with some relatively costlier system at my level compared to my 1000 bucks......With no limit budget or even a few times bigger it is if not easy possible to beat me...( my own dreamed upgrade system will be 15,000 bucks but i felt no frustration because i am already at the minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold anyway )

The goal is with your example and your post some beginners will begin to think BEFORE throwing money uselessly ... Then thanks for your post...

In a way my thread is the opposite of most thread... We think less often about a way to have more with less money invested for more joy ... Most audio thread started with some frustation and a search for a costlier upgrades...No thinking about homemade devices and tweaks and about embeddings method seems necessary BEFORE upgrading, which resulted in a frustration starting an upgrading race ...

Audiophiles subjectivist as objecvtivists focus on gear qualities or measures make us forgot acoustics and psychoacoustics and mechanical and electrical embeddings controls. What was called "tweaks" in the past.

I dont like this word because embeddings controls are more than just "tweaks" and they are not secondary at all but at least as much important as gear synergy choices. At the end they are the most important because learning them save us money and end our frustration with sounds...

Define "low cost.’Mine, by my reckoning, is high value and reasonable cost;but I couldn’t have afforded any more. And it was actually going out on a limb to get what I wanted and that’s; with a preamp I’ve had for 20 years! so my amp was like $1500, speakers something like $3k, CD Player - that I hardly use anymore but was primary when I bought it 7 years ago or so - $500, streamer $700, cables about $400, stands $500; so about, what, $6600 all-in new? To most people that’s A LOT, to others, it’s being cheap and doesn’t sound good lol. For me, it’s nigh on perfect, certainly for the investment.

Especially since my retirement ...

Noted. Now your responses are starting to make sense - word count wise. Happy posting and make sure that you are the one who has the last word. Have fun.

mahgister, with all due respect, I truly believe you have created something special, at a fraction of the cost others, including myself have spent, and good on you for achieving audio utopia. (btw I'd love to hear a vintage Sansui amp with some old Tannoy's or similar).

But enough already about your low cost system. That horse has been beaten to death, and the word count is overwhelming.

Amen....though I have my prefs for the ladies....😏

Throughout my HiFi journey, I have been amazed by relatively low cost components several times. My little Dragonfly and PSB headphones provided and unbelievable upgrade for computer listening, which I did at work. 
That was 500$ very well spent. 
Then I moved on to my A&K with Grado headphones, another big leap. $1700.

Now I have a dedicated listening room. After going to shows and every dealer in the area. I spent 14k. IMHO, I would have had to spend tens of thousands more to get significantly better sound. At the show that I attended, one of the standouts was a system with a HiFi Rose all in one with Piega bookshelf speakers. That system was just over 5k. With a good sub, In hindsight, that system may have been good enough for me. But I definitely love what I have. Everyone that hears it is flabbergasted and wants more. 
I am also well impressed with my little “The Fives” by Klipsch that I have in my living room. They fill a wide open space with clear and powerful sound. And that is just over Bluetooth or the TV’s ARC out. With a really good source and sub, I could see that little system being enough for a lot of people. 
Sit back and enjoy what you have. The smile on your face is all that matters. 

Restored Pioneer SX-1250, Denon DP-59L turntable, Denon DL-103R/Musikraft Lithium headshell, Magnepan 1.7i speakers, Anticables throughout.  Total investment about $6,500.  Completely satisfying to my 70 year old ears.

This thread is not about me even if i make remarks and thank those who gave their experience with relative low cost system...

If you read it  i ask others testimonies in their "similar"  audio journey and about their own experience of the their relative  S.Q. /low cost ratio... Then it is not about my low cost system...

Now you are not in the obligation to read my answers... Read others people posts here ... It is informative and enlightening precisely because it does not comes from me and is intended for beginners also...

Then any  innuendo about my posts count is just that : an innuendo ...

Thanks anyway for your "due respect"...😊

And instead of asking people to quit creating their  thread pass over their thread if you are not interested, i do it each day...... Is it not more  not only logical  but more meaningful  , i say that as an added benefit for your next posts about anyone else here creating a thread  ? 😊

But enough already about your low cost system. That horse has been beaten to death, and the word count is overwhelming.

Thanks chiadrum ... and jmarini2

This will surely help others in their journey... welcome to Audiogon

my best 😊

OP yes Iam amazed of my low cost used gear system.ELAc speakers b6, MIT S3 speakers cable, schiit preamp tube, Norh mono block $400 , Njoeb marantz cd players. Audioquest cobra ic.This system is purely musical and very involving.

Interesting price...Thanks jayctoy..

have you already compared with something else ?

Now a testimony from someone way more competent and knowledgeable than me by far, far margin ... I must keep my pride then i used the word "margin" instead of ocean apart 😁...

But observe that he does not even spoke about my obsession embeddings electrical, mechanical and acoustical controls at all nor about their i9mpact as i did... he spoke about the actual gear market quality at low price nowadays from his educated perspective :

The underlining is mine ... 😊

Now imagine buying the low cost gear recommended by M. Malitz here and imagine that instead of just plugging them on the wall and listening you try to embed them mechanically electrically and acoustically in a rightfull way as i did ?

If you do as i did you really can called your low cost system if not TOP maximal acoustical satisfaction threshold probably you can as i did for mine called it a minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold level reached ... And trust me it is if not enough it is almost enough ... 😉😊

Is there other people in audiogon with satisfying low cost system ? please spoke and explain why to us this is so ....I take "low cost" in a relative meaning way, if you go from a 100,000 bucks system downsizing to a 20,000 bucks one with no great loss of S.Q. your testimonies will be useful for all too... Low cost here means as a ratio between S.Q. and Price...

 

 

Frank Malitz

Former Owner Bob Carver Corporation (2015–present)Author has 6.7K answers and 10.2M answer views2y

Around 2010 I bought a pair of Thiel 2 2s that were around 20 years old and cost $1,000.  I paired them with a B&K ST202 I had bought used for $300.  I don't remember what the disk spinner was.  Probably fed a digital signal from a relatively cheap dvd player to a receiver I got marked way down at Best Buy when they used to mark stuff way down sometimes.  Yamaha or Pioneer I don't remember.  It was a sub 2k system that was so satisfying had I started with it I might've stopped there.  

Your observation correspond to my experience in acoustics evaluation...

When things got right with gear synergy in a not too bad room, we live through a minimal acoustic satisfaction threshold ... This minimal level suppose in spite of some inevitable limitations a relatively good balance between all acoustics factors implied and when we live through it the first time by luck or/and by good planification , we feel a small ectasy or at least a great pleasure ... It is sometimes enough for many if not most people ...😊

Anyway to go further luck and gear synergy and a not too bad room will not be enough...

We will need if we want to go to the maximal acoustical satisfaction threshold, to recover this balance between all acoustic factors on a higher level of experience , we will need if not higher quality gear design upgrades, at least embeddings controls devices and means and tools in the mechanical, electrical and especially acoustical working dimensions of the system/ears/room ...

Acoustics is the main factor of audiophile experience and acoustics is more than room acoustic here ...

Thanks for your post...

It was a sub 2k system that was so satisfying had I started with it I might’ve stopped there.

Welcome to the happy and growing world of MidFi :)

In many ways, and despite the loss of so many traditional brick-and-mortar audio shops, these are the best of times in this hobby. There are enormous choices of product from manufacturers who bring exceptional value for money. Having started out when vinyl was the main medium in recorded music and tape for duplication there were popular mass market brands and the stuff sold at the high end shops (I couldn't afford nor would have wanted R2R as a poor university student, being quite happy enough to have a low powered Technics receiver, a turntable and a pair of "bookshelf" speakers.) Now exceptional performance doesn't require an exceptional spend.

Very true.... Thanks for your post...

I will only add that it is even more true if we embed rightfully in their mechanical,electrical and acoustical working dimensions the relatively low price synergetical system we bought or any system at any price anyway...

More than in the past , performance quality had almost no linear relation with price...

It is why i distinguish myself only two levels with relative variation between them : minimal and maximal acoustic satisfaction thresholds...

In many ways, and despite the loss of so many traditional brick-and-mortar audio shops, these are the best of times in this hobby. There are enormous choices of product from manufacturers who bring exceptional value for money. Having started out when vinyl was the main medium in recorded music and tape for duplication there were popular mass market brands and the stuff sold at the high end shops (I couldn’t afford nor would have wanted R2R as a poor university student, being quite happy enough to have a low powered Technics receiver, a turntable and a pair of "bookshelf" speakers.) Now exceptional performance doesn’t require an exceptional spend.

I have three low-cost systems in various rooms and a "main" one in my living room.

I think I can safely say that the low-cost systems sound remarkably good for the price - better than anything I had when I was in college (late 1970s) and in the 1980s. And hey, I enjoyed those 1970s and 1980s systems just fine.

Modern speakers - at all price points - have made sonic strides. Modern electronics and manufacturing techniques have brought down the cost of entry systems.

Now, if we could only interest Gen Z in audio and get a sizeable population on the path to being audiophiles and supporting the manufacturers.

The downsizing of mind all around will not result in a growing  interest  by older people or young adult to higher forms of meanings through music...

Music is like maths in a way, generally we must learn it young to enjoy it deeply...Under 14 years old... There is exception as i begun to love maths at 19 when i quit all bad maths teachers......😊 Maths is more like poetry than accountability ...

😊

I think you are right for the availability of better design at lower cost...

This is why my thread make sense...

Add to this fact the necessary better acoustics understanding nowadays and other mechanical and electrical noise floor improvement, audiophile experience can be cheap costs...

But we must pay the price now in study time and experiments...

A good audiophile system is not free nor plug and play even today...

I have three low-cost systems in various rooms and a "main" one in my living room.

I think I can safely say that the low-cost systems sound remarkably good for the price - better than anything I had when I was in college (late 1970s) and in the 1980s. And hey, I enjoyed those 1970s and 1980s systems just fine.

Modern speakers - at all price points - have made sonic strides. Modern electronics and manufacturing techniques have brought down the cost of entry systems.

Now, if we could only interest Gen Z in audio and get a sizeable population on the path to being audiophiles and supporting the manufacturers

Well, the same set of quality speakers will basically sound the same regardless of amp, cables, power cords, etc. So it's not surprising. 

Op I have 2 main systems where I compare my low cost system, musicality and musical involvement is very close. But liveness and hearing more that’s where my main 2 systems shine. Low cost systems can only do so much not enough to beat my main systems. What the Andra and my KLH does the ELac can’t.