Thanks for your interesting testimony...

Great strategy

...But we must use acoustics basic knowledge  tactic to improve the S.Q.  and some mechanical and electrical controls... Then what we live with is no more a stopgap ...

Chasing the HiFi rabbit takes away from the audiophile experience. I’ve cut back on listening to gear that is the latest/greatest or beyond my grasp and it has allowed me to better enjoy what I have. 

Interestings thoughts that will be useful for many...

I thank you very much...

 I will be glad to read  your future thoughts... 😊

After reading the infamous Stereo Review blind test of 1987(?) and subsequent tests and personal experiences, I stopped focusing on electronics except for their convenience features as long as their measurements check out, so for my main audio system I have a vintage Pioneer integrated amp. I’ve read a lot about speakers and decided I wanted to build my own, but I knew enough to know that I didn’t know enough to design my own. So I selected a design from someone who did know enough. I chose to build BFM Davids with upgraded drivers. They cost $1100 to build. Total system cost, including DAC and laptop was approx $1900.

For my voice-activated office system all I cared about was that the preamp was Alexa-enabled and all types of distortion measured below the level of human hearing and the speakers were unobtrusive. For speakers I built a pair of Linkwitz LXMinis for $800. Total system cost approx $1400.

My guitar studio has JBL 30x speakers that are frequency-matched within 1 decibel. They cost around $300. The direct interface was $200. Laptop $300. One thing I always found funny is that in a huge number of cases the speakers used to engineer recordings are far cheaper than the speakers audiophiles use to play them back.

My living room and HT systems were much more expensive, but they serve a different purpose. However, I still bought them mostly used.

Very interesting experience journey...

How would you qualify the experience in S.Q. compared to all others audio systems you had listened to ?

In particular, have you ever heard system way better than your  your own ? If yes where and what?

The most interesting point for me in your post is this astute observation :

One thing I always found funny is that in a huge number of cases the speakers used to engineer recordings are far cheaper than the speakers audiophiles use to play them back.

Why this is important observation for me and for all people ?

In my opinion this observation confirm the fact that acoustics science in all his aspects matter way more than the specific specs level of the gear, especially if the gear is not too old and with already relatively  very low levels of distortion anyway under the audible  level  ...

I thanks you in advance for your answers to my question for the benefit of all ...

😊

It is already explained in a post above with even an exemple... Thanks...

That’s an interesting definition of "relatively." So if the cost doesn’t matter, do you want to also hear from people with mega-$ systems?

Dude, you must really think you’re important. You’re not. STFU already. It’s beyond obnoxious.

Why do I have a hotel room in your head? Is it because I’m of no real importance to you?😊

So explain to me why a thread about the importance of good sound/quality and price ratio gets you all worked up?

Why instead of a positive contribution or a reasoned opinion do you spit out a sentence as banal as it is useless precisely after a few angry simpletons did the same ?

By the way poor dude i am not important at all but the question which my thread ask for others opinions is...

Now suppose my thread is qualified of being obnoxious, this is an insult for all others testimonies and personal experiences here ...And there is many...

If it is not the thread which is obnoxious then it is me alone .. 😊

Then the only explanation for your useless post is your rageful desire to insult me...

Go on other thread my poor little hating soul , it will be better for your heart pressure ...

By the way STFU yourself...

Before quitting your pleasant company i will confide or confess  to you my sin. i am an idiot sometimes to reply to hate or narrow mind ... Then in this sense you are right. You see i can recognize my own limit... Being retired i like to discuss with other gentlemen about many audio or music related matter...I am not important but any conversation is important in a way or another...

«Only narrow mind take a question or an answer for a personal insult»-- Anonymus poster

 I will really like to hear others people experience with a relatively low cost piece of gear or a relatively low cost system...

"relatively" means  the price matter not, what matter is your own experience  as  owner...

Nothing wise to say about your relatively low cost system acoustic satisfaction ?

We dont lack simpleton it seems...

Nothing wise to say about your relatively low cost system acoustic satisfaction ?

I just spottin a thread where i can puckin my idiotic head

I’ma fixing to call mom iffin y’all don’t quit scrappin

-- Second I called minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold a minimum threshold with enough balance between all factors implicated to be able to make possible a minimal satisfaction level relative to the gear designs used

Yeah, whatever, your so called "minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold" is a moving threshold/target. It is not static depending on how many points of reference and exposure to higher performance gear, one may accrue over the years. Once you’ve lived with/tasted the latter, satisfaction with the junk one may have started with in their journey begins to dissipate.

You are so ignorant that it would be comical if it was not sad...😁

Let me explain for the benefit of all others here...

You wrote that my minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold is a "moving target" because what define audiophile experience for you is mainly and only "exposure to higher performances gears"...

You dont realize that you yourself linked your target to imperative upgrading in a race toward a costly alleged perfection as in high end publicity...Then you are yourself moving the target linking it to a chain of improving purchases... 😁

Me i use acoustics to define my stable targets , you you use high end gear price tags publicity for your moveable goal about gear perfection ...

You are so market conditioned that you did not know that all acoustic factors implied in any musical reproduction are defined first and last by acoustics concepts and the balance we can achieve( a relative balance for sure, but a balance) with all these acoustics parameters with a system room ... Not only and mainly by buying gear more and more pricier...

You dont know that because you confuse and conflate the word acoustics in the plural with the expression room acoustic in the singular mode as an adjective...

You ignore we can achieve a relative but real balance between the 5 parameters defining "timbre" for example with any system at any price for a relatively satisfying experience which will be minimal or maximal or in between ...

For sure all these systems we can buy will perform , under equal or slightly over the minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold... because to reach the maximal threshold we will need a completely dedicated room but it will not be enough we will need the best design existing then at high price...Mikelavigne system is in the maximal acoustical experience threshold window... Not because he bought the  costlier gear there is to buy, but because he designed a dedicated acoustic room for them and learn how to embed his system in the three working dimensions.

What you do not understand is that the concept of balance between the many acoustics concepts and parameters implied and with which we could play and improve will stay the same notions at work NEVERMIND THE PRICE OR THE DESIGN...

Do you catch what i spoke about ?

Take less times reading reviews of high end gear , less times attacking audiophile ad hominem just because you dont like that they pretend to be happy with their present low cost gear system because it is well installed....

And read more articles and papers on acoustical embeddings controls ( timbre and Immersinenes, listener envelopment and sound source dimensions ratio , spatial qualities and crosstalk etc ) more papers about the mechanical controls of vibrations and resonance, more papers about the electrical noise floor of the house-room-gear...

If you do that you will learn how to do more with less... And for sure, do i need to state that my low cost system will not beat the potential of your high end costlier own system especially if you had learn how to embed it well in his 3 working dimensions... ...

As you see now to explain that my words count must be minimally longer than the usual average poster ... 😊

As you said so amically , Bye now...

--First i never claimed that my room was an ideal acoustic model...( it was more an unesthetical laboratory for trials and experiments) At the end i was satisfied.. Thats all ...I learned by experiments in my room . Period. Who can put 100 tuned resonators in a living room anyway ?But my goal was to learn here not to propose an ideal room for all .😁

-- Second I called minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold a minimum threshold with enough balance between all factors implicated to be able to make possible a minimal satisfaction level relative to the gear designs used ...Higher end products cannot be replaced in performance by low cost one by the way . Only an idiot will suggest in ad hominem attack against me that i proposed my system as the TOP system there is instead of understanding my point about method... i never claimed something like that ...A living room cannot be a laboratory for experiments anyway...

--Third here we have someone using ad hominem attack against my claim that audiophile experience is possible at all costs if we learn how to embed the system in the room /house for specific ears...😊

-- Four This person attacking me not my argument conflate minimal acoustic satisfaction with maximal one when we use high end TOP products in acoustically designed room. I myself always distinguish the two...😊

-- Six I always used simple blind test in my acoustics experiments and devices experiments. I had nothing to prove PUBLICLY to anyone. I dont sell gear. I advise electrical, mechanical and acoustical embeddings methods of controls BEFORE upgrading to high cost products. The idea is to spare money and at least trying to understand some doable acoustic experiences BEFORE upgrading ...Then because i sold nothing and claim nothing about my gear/room , save my own satisfaction, i dont need to prove to some haters in a public double blind test that my product is good. I dont sell product. My method of adressing the way the gear work in these three dimensions is good. No need to blind test a method. We must use it FIRST because it work for any gear type at any cost.

I dont like spammers and i dont like ad hominem attacks by revengeful people Generally they are narrow mind to stay polite...😊

It seems the amount of disturbing posts here cannot be explained only by my too long posts counts or my "verbosity" as a non english speaking people as audphile rightfully point out... 😁

It seems my question hit a sensible pack of nerves on people not enough wise to understand or accept that any gear system at any price must be righfully embedded in his working dimensions to be optimal.

Then when the synergy is there, any system can give at any price at least a minimal acoustical satisfying experience...

It seems some narrow minds dont like my audio journey observations...They throw off too much money on gear perhaps and made not enough experiments and they hate if someone remind them of this simple necessity before buying or selling anything ..

😊

«Hate is explained by a lack of brain cells»--Anonymus neurophysiologist😎

«Sarcasm without real object is not hate but often stupidity»-- Anonymus audiogon poster

There is a price to pay if we neglect to study and experiment with acoustics... ( not to mention mechanical and electrical embeddings controls)

Yes, so we will maintain Mahgister’s acoustically tweaked out splendid room as the baseline.

____BASELINE - MAHGISTER’S ACOUSTICALLY ENHANCED ROOM ____

Now, there is an experiment that can be conducted to test Mahgister’s amazement with his low cost system.

It will be conducted as follows:

- Maghister sits with a blindfold in his room so he can’t tell what speakers/electronics were brought into his room and what they cost.

- We will do a couple of swaps on Mahgister’s favorite tracks between his amazing low cost gear and the other test pieces that are brought in.

If Maghister picks his low cost gear as the truly amazing satisfying system over and over (as he sits blindfolded), then, that’s all there is to it.

But, if Maghister picks other gear that someone else brought in for the test (after he heard it in his room), Maghister could get exposed in front of all the audio nerds. Only Trudeau could possibly console the great Mahgister and control the ensuing prose, thereafter. 🤣

Now your opinion is said...

As you said the world does not revolve around you or me nor around my world count ...

And in this thread i asked other experiences and i read them and i thank them ...

Call that a rant , i call that a thread about a not so often question in this Forum...

I will wait for others to spoke about it ...

You are welcome to say something about the question asked...

my words count will stay as it is...Dont push my button anynmore , everybody has read and understood ...

the thread is about a question , now that your rant about me is done we can wait for others opinions about the thread question...

Thanks

 Ok i am too serious ...

But i am a bit tired of these critics about my words count...

My best to you...

The fact that you did not even consider this thread many responses value as an invitation to speak about the matter after my honest question and insisted to make a point about my post lenght reveal that your intention was only disparaging me ...

You even add a cartoon which way of communication as spam i dislike...

Perhaps you can dislike my number of words but at least i respect people...

Why not applying to yourself your own advice?.

Why repeating in all these last posts the same critics about my words count ?

Why not stay silent once your point has been made ONE TIME ?

Do you feel better ?

By the way i will stay myself , and speak as i see fit for me ...

Spare me and to others the same critic and dont push my button anymore...

Glide over my posts...

Thanks

I believe you because i know you a bit enough to know you as a trustworthy person ...😊

Now why to presume that all of what i spoke about in all threads is only and mostly bullshit and take on you in this original last thread of mine to say it to my face and only intervening to say this is bullshit, presupposing you know me perfectly and know that all people here must think as you ?

Answer...😊

You dont like my words count and posts count... This is Ok

Is it enough to enter a thread after a spamming idiot and saying to me that i bullshit ?

The answer is no...

But you are not a bad guy at all ... you have more humor than me... And i take your critic about me...

But dont bullshit my thread because my question here make perfect sense for many people...

😊

I thank you for this viril,frank, and sincere exhange...

my pleasure to speak with you...

my sincere best ...As always to you ....

I don’t count but received plenty over the years. Just got one from a member here yesterday thanking me for an advice I had provided.

I can accept that because i speak too much and i dont have a too small ego...Only an idiot will try to hide what is evident... 😊

And i can accept to be criticized when the person dont spam and dont mainly insult .. 😊

Now i am sorry but i am retired and in spite of my defects some appreciate some of my posts,..,. Then i will go on...

I recommend you slide over them...

😊

By the way how many emails of appreciation about some of your ideas and propositions  have you received yourself in the last  year here from unknown people  ?

Answer please....

Give me the number...😁

Then this private responses by unknown people  prove i had been helpful or inspirational  many times... Enough to justify my desire to discuss here ...I like people and discussions..

End of the matter ...

Explaining…in this context bullshit is simply the overwhelming quantity of the verbal diarrhea that’s been exhibited here. Naturally with such a high quantity the quality degrades, turning this all into…you guessed it…bullshit.

A short version of it, as you admit, your ego is too big and you post too much.

P.S. still wasn’t the right time to bust your chops ha. LOL

A gentleman must explain himself when he claim that what another gentleman said is bullshit...

Thanks...

An observation :

One factor that audiophile high end fanatic " the costlier the better", in their blind race to upgrades, forgot is that we are all of us someday because of retirement or age or simply as myself going in a smaller house, we then are all in the obligation to downsize our system and we want doing so with no downgrade in the S.Q.

The bad news is downsizing is inevitable for most of us...

The good news as i experienced it , it is possible without downgrading the sound quality...

Here some food for thought for those who think buying high end gear, instead of studying acoustics is the gist and the essence of audio experience :

It is a bit provocative but there is no thinking without disturbance in our mind set ...😁

https://www.tnt-audio.com/topics/downgrade.html

https://www.tnt-audio.com/topics/downgrade_2

https://www.tnt-audio.com/topics/downgrade_3.html

I invite everybody who discovered how to be happy at a relatively low cost, because all is relative,to speak of his experience...

We will read and learn ...😋

There is a price to pay if we neglect to study and experiment with acoustics... ( not to mention mechanical and electrical embeddings controls)

We will then focus only on gear upgrades instead of embedding rightfully in our room what we already have ( if the system synergy is there to start with for sure ) ...

it is a joke but it say something ... 😊

By the way i can very well hear any gear change impact in my systems, even cables...Then get my point right ...😁😊😎

I am not a narrow objectivist ideologue enebriated with few measuring tools... 😊

But i am not a subjectivist tasting gear as he taste wine and changing them each month because he is bored and need a new flavor...

I promote creativity and acoustics  thinking...

People making generalization miss always the point...

You cannot know what my modified K340 can do...

When i listened them with organ music from Bach by Marie Claire alain for example, i hear the church acoustic OUT OF MY HEAD, as if i was there... i felt the higher bass in my chest not in my ears... And i felt the bass notes till 20 hertz in my feet by bones resonance... The first time i even was so surprized i jump on my chair ...Bwaaaahahaha...

As usual with many audiophiles they bash others experience to promote their favorite fad fetish gear pieces as the ONLY solution... In your case subs grid...

You dont seems to be an exception to this rule...

And you are so oblivious of others needs that you cannot imagine that some own now a small acoustic room with no real need for many subs or even one for many other reasons too ....

Then in your ignorance you decreed that with no subs no system could be audiophile perceived experience...

Pathetically childish ...

Bwaaaahahaha...

Headphones can sound good because they can cut the room’s confoundance out. But, they are very restricted. You can’t feel the music in the entirety of your physicality with headphones (ear huggers), like you can with a hifi system.

If you’re running a pair of speakers without a sub, you are missing entire lower octaves of music contained in some of your recordings. No matter what acoustical interventions and positional eq’ing you may have done, it is highly unlikely that you’re fully addressing room modes and so on without deploying subs. The acoustical satisfaction is sliding down a bit there, in light of all the above mentioned. 😁

What you just described is consumerism in audiophile products...

I had nothing against that.,..

But use your brain and think about others people looking for their own solution without this cycle of upgrades...

My cycle is learning how to install acoustically optimally and mechanically optimally and electrically optimally with my own devices what i already have if synergy was reach...

Bwaaaahahaha...

Later on, if i find some high end again that’s mind blowing, i’ll buy it and then i’ll beat it over time with the lower priced gear (as things improve), get my money back, etc. That’s the cycle i operate on.

If you had read so much my threads attentively...

You know that i disliked headphones but i MODIFIED my AKG K340 , which is even if you dont know it one of the most interesting design and the only one hybrid with an internal acoustic grid of tuned resonators .. With it i enjoy an "out of the head" speakers like effect already and i experience all spatial qualities which will be enhanced by the BACCH system in his relative way for reasons i will not explained here ...

I am not poor having no debts by the way... I am not rich either ...

But my goal in life dont concern you...

I prefer listening music since i was creative enough to reach this minimal acoustic satisfaction threshold and i am no more frustrated by sound factors lacking or unbalanced...

I cannot afford 10,000 albums of music and many thousand of books as i did and bought your so called plug and play high end system ...😊Bwaaaahahaha...

Acoustics knowledge is the key.... Go on buying gear ....my creativity is enough for me and for others...

As you wisely said :

Bwaaaahahaha

😊

it is previsible that owners of high end will attack someone who can be too much satisfied and express it especially if many others do it here , with relatively low cost system without too much loss in the acoustic factors balance and knowing why and how to do it at minimal cost...

I am not alone it seems reading my thread , some others enjoy relatively low cost system with their own room and synergy ...

😊

Now as you articulate it well , Bwaaaahahaha...

By the way the BACCH filters i recommended it to inform ourselves as audiophiles is not a costly "tweaks" or a new high end piece of gear, a fad, it is an acoustic revolution in understanding not a toy... Then i encouraged not so much people to buy these filters as to read Choueiri articles and inform themselves BEFORE about crosstalk destructive effect on any stereo system.

Why did i do that ?

It is because i devised my own mechanical ways and experiments to decrease crosstalk and verify acoustic principle at play...😁 Bwaaaahahaha...

Perhaps you walked in life buying...I prefer understanding... And my creativity ... my fun was learning some acoustics not buying ... I modified my speakers porthole and waveguide now they are audiophile stuff with many others tweaks of my own ...Bwaaaahahaha

And last but not least i listen music now, not the sound of my gear frustrated, i listened  the sound of my system/room in the years i devised my acoustics experiments... I listen music few hours each day now happy ... it is behind me because i learned how to do it...Music is enough for me now... Read my commentaries in the classical threads and in the jazz thread or read the one about chinese and japan music... You will see that music was and is my hobby... Acoustics interest me  again and again till now  for philosophical reason related to the relation between qualities perception and consciousness ...

Bwaaaahahaha...

Are you from an arrogant country where you take the right to lecture people about their goal, needs and budget and about what they like to do in life?😁

Have you read my question ?

Or your pleasure instead of answering it clearly is just to throw a veiled insult to all people happy with a relatively low cost system ?

My basic system is a TOP amplifier from Sansui one of their best model and the best headphone ever designed by AKG ...

Perhaps price tag can give you an audiophile erection but not me, i prefer my own way...

And you came and think that you can patronize me about my room acoustics, my modified speakers and my system because it is homemade at peanuts cost ?

 I am not alone here happy for such or such reasons, guess what type of people will patronize them speaking as you just did ?

😊 Yes you make me smile ....

I wish you pleasure ...

Aren’t you from a rich country called Canada man? You should be able to afford 3k or 4k every few years, at the least? If you are from Sudan or Guatemala and said you can’t afford much, I’d believe you.

currently running a $62 Fosi integrated, $149 WiiM streamer, pair of Avalon Ascendants - quite surprised at how good it sounds...and no attention given to placement, acoustics etc ...

Interesting!

I own a Fosi SK01 headphone amplifier with the AKG sextett ...( for my computer use it is not my main headphone amp) I used a Douk P2 tube preamplifierfor the Fosi headphone amp and as pre for my active speakers.. Price 60 bucks too ...

It is so good for peanuts price that i will never upgrade it save with a very high end design headphone amplifier .. Why ?

Because i will be afraid to buy one at 500 bucks compared to this one i paid 60 bucks so good it is...Who want to pay 500 bucks for a marginal upgrade or just changing 4x 25 cents for a dollar...

Here i will upgrade it only with something very high end at more than 1000 bucks..😊

And anyway in upgrade process all gear pieces must pertain to the same quality design/price scale generally speaking... No one use generally a 200 bucks tube in a 25 dollars tube amp...

But there is exception to this rule as your short interesting post reveal : the Avalon ascendant driven by a 62 bucks amp with success it seems ... 😊

I lived through the same obsession as yourself...

And you are right about synergy... It is really the starting point and can become a problem when we buy a new piece as so called upgrade...

It is why i recommend experiments with what we have before upgrading if the synergy is good to begin with for sure...

 Thanks for your interesting observations bro...

With that said, I usually enjoy my main system a lot until I “upgrade” something and disrupt the synergy between components/cables/room/ears in the process. Then it becomes an obsession and a source of frustration until the synergy is restored. I’ve done it too many times too.
But what’s interesting is when I listen to music on my lower cost system we use to watch movies and play background music on, (Marantz AVR, Focal Aria 906, Apple TV streaming Tidal), I can honestly say that I enjoy music just as much as I do when listening to my main rig. I just enjoy the sound of my main rig more.

As i said relatively low cost can vary a lot in function of each one of us different needs and budget limit...

My main point is about the way and the means  to enjoy a "relatively low cost system" not so much about a fixed amount of money...

The back tought behind this question is that mechanical and electrical and acoustical knowlwedge define audiophile experience more than mere price tags...

the other point is then that acoustic satisfaction is possible at relatively low cost...

I dont define a "cost" because when you know what to do to improve an audio system, his cost matter way less  for a musical and sound quality experience...

Even Bill gates then can come and participate and ex-plain to us how he had as much pleasure with his "low cost" system of 80,000 bucks than the other one he own of one millon dolars because  he learned how to install and embed each pieces in the right electrical, mechanical and acoustical working dimensions...

then here relatively low cost  is defined by the specfic history os each one and his needs and budget...

My thread and question are not dogmatic opinion about pricing but inviation about thinking how to improve what we have or how to experiment for improvement BEFORE a costlier upgrades which can become useless or less useful when we learn more ...

@mahgister how do you define a relatively low cost system? I didn’t go thru the entire discussion and possibly missed it but is there a cap on a total to consider a system low cost? 
Compared to some other systems I’ve seen, mine is relatively low cost.

But Guttenberg as most audiophiles will insist on the gear choice and synergy...

We must start with good synergetical pieces of gear then it is Ok...

But my main argument concerning the reason why a relatively low cost system can gave an audiophile very good if not magical experience is based on the electrical,mechanical and acoustical factors and controls as much as important as synergy and gear choices to reach the potential peak of any system at any price in a room ...

😊

Now Steven Guttenberg is a seller as all reviewers but all of what he said is not to throw in the thrashbin either...

Perhaps audiophile experience is possible at a relatively low cost :

Now an interesting article which can be food for thought ...

https://futureaudiophile.com/can-you-build-an-audiophile-system-for-500/

 And i must say that i had not thought about this argument when i spoke and advocate about  relatively low cost system :

«This $500 audiophile system is important because it opens the door to a young generation of audiophiles who typically have a tough financial road ahead of them »

"Touché" said a childish spammer speaking about a cryptic judgement from someone  with no explanation in a thread about a simple question asking for others experiences..😊

We dont lack narrow minds attacking the messenger instead of adressing the message...

Your cryptic opinion must be explained in more details...😁

I dont understand how people expressing their experience in varied situations with relatively low cost systems in a positive way  will discourage people to engage...

Save for one  childish post, all posts were adding more perspectives to the thread question.

Then your one sentence judgement read like a riddle coming from a sphinx judging from above...😊

Explain or stay mute...Thanks in advance ...

Great example of how an honest question becomes a disconnected discussion that would discourage most from wanting to engage the community again. Great job folks.

For sure you are right! bob540

thanks my friend...

Spamming a thread in my book is worst than saying a one sentence insult...

We can ignore a short insult...Not spamming... Insult is aimed at one person... Spamming disturb the thread and aim at all readers...

I never call anyone idiot... But spammers i do...

Repeating  uninvited ,non sensical words many times with no explanation and refering to no one explicitly is a form of  spam...

Now if you may take off your post i will take off mine and i will even thank you...

I may even apologize if you prove to me erasing this post that you are not an idiot ...

I am not speaking only as mahgister here , i am also the OP of this thread and i take that seriously ...

@mahgister

Excuse me sir, it appears to me that you are the one who is insulting me. I am not an idiot.

Also, how do you know that my post was directed at you?

I’m glad you enjoy your system and I hope as fervently as I do mine.

Regards,

barts

Thanks... Interesting read and very useful post ...

jji666

For sure when i spoke about low cost system being acoustically "magical" the exact price scale level had not much importance... We are all different, with different needs, different possibilities(room) and different budget...

my point is about "relatively low cost system".... From 1,000 bucks to 50,000 bucks if Bill Gates discover downsizing and the joy of experimenting with less and more creativity ( he has no time for that i guess 😊 If i was him i will buy the best plug it and call it a day in audio) ...

High end is not synonymus with audiophile experience, knowledge and creativity are... Acoustics beat price tags very often ...Synergy is starting point ...

The goal is listening music  at the minimal acoustical  satisfaction threshold with the best S.Q. for the least money invested ...

😊

I concur with the three posters above ... Thanks...

But it will be interesting to read their more detailed experience with their relatively low cost system versus a more costlier part or more costlier system...

It is sure that acoustics knowledge teach us how to separate straw and grain in audio marketing... No need to many showroom visits if you had learned how to make your system- room better and even magical... Your ears will taught you so...

This thread is one of the rare claiming that less may be more ...If knowledge is acquired and creativity developed a bit ...

The more we learn the less upgrades we may need...

😁😊😉

Because it makes magic in my case there is no reason that i could be the only case... Thanks for your opinion...

a well-set-up low-cost system of pieces that play well together can make magic. excellent work. 

😁😊😊😊😊

It is ok right now... i let my steam out... ( i hate spam )

I will stay polite with you... I like you anyway...

Go dont take yourself back...

I will smile ... ( i know already that i had a big ego and spoke too much here since my retirement ) Then... Be creative...

@mahgister when is a good time to bust your chops? I can wait.

Interesting point nobody had make in this thread till now...

I also was surprized by a peanuts cost tube preamplifier and an headphone peanuts cost one...

I really think that we live interesting time for audiophiles...

Thanks for your post ... It can be interesting for people looking for a tuner for sure... I will look at it by curiosity ...

I don’t have a low cost system BUT one of my most outstanding pieces of gear is also my least expensive. After excessive building of high rise’s in my neighborhood made FM reception impossible I stuck my toe in the water and bought an Ocean Digital WR 10 internet ’Tuner’ ($179) I bought a good either-net cable, upgraded the power supply to an IFI wall wart ($50) and bought a used Monarchy DIP re-clocker ($199)

Hooked up to my Kora DAC it sounds AMAZING!

Sometimes, with a few low cost upgrades, you can take a humble piece of kit and turn it into a giant killer!

I know you are a good guy but it is not a good timing to bust my chops...😁

Sorry if i am rude to you...

You are not spamming the thread at least like the real idiot above...

@audio_is_subjective64 I’m just busting @mahgister ’s chops. He knows it.

 I dont smoke...

 And take a poll, and if most people here dont understand any of my point as you claim you dont, then i am  an idiot...

If many people can  understand my point  then you are the one...

And why writing here that you understand a dude who spam a thread instead of writing a sentence ?

No need to answer... Your post will be understood as void of meaning... Sorry...

I have to say, @mahgister , that at times I wish I could take a puff of whatever it is that you’re smoking, in hopes to be able to 1) go thru your posts and 2) understand what you’re trying to say. But we already had this conversation and I failed miserably. Lol

It is also my general attitude and we are not alone it seems...

Except i am amazed as some others people by their low cost system... Probably luck in synergy and better embeddings controls are Key for amazement ...

Thanks for your opinion...

I am not amazed but I can appreciate a low cost system that sounds nice. The decision comes when something really outperforms and then you have to consider spending a little more for that sound.

 

Enjoy.

 

Usually i dont signal post and even in the past i had not signal the post of someone accusing me of killing people during covid discussion here in Audiogon...

Then i do not ask and never asked the audiogon person assigned to survey all thread to censor a post even one accusing me of murder...Then....

I can defend myself without signalling a post....

is this clear for all ?

But this idiot above instead of writing his opinion in one sentence : "The OP wrote too much and had a big ego", which is at least not completely false, 😊 pollute the thread by idiotic repetition...😁

I ask this hateful idiot to remove his post... And replace it by a one sentence insult...We can ignore one sentence insult coming from idiot...

If he do not remove his post himself , i signal his post in a public way to the Audiogon responsible person in charge to remove it instead of doing it covertly because this post is not only useless, but polluting the thread...I act here always openly and hate to signal people and never do it covertly ..

Thanks...

 The audiogon person in charge can after erasing the post above erase mine because it will not make any sense... Thanks in advance  to the audiogon service person...

For sure what my Tannoy dual gold concentric could do , never my small active 4 inches woofer from M-audio even heavily modified as i did, can do it...😁

But guess what ! 😊

Not knowing acoustics and nothing about audio at the times i owned the Tannoy , i enjoy more right now and i had more acoustics balanced factors experience with these very low cost M-Audio speakers compared to the better refined design of the mythical Tannoy which anyway i never learned to use at their optimum ( i was frustrated by the sound changing amp and never thinking about the Tannoy embeddings in the house/room). 😁

The main point of this thread is this : knowledge most of the time beat price tags and if it is not the case , basic electrical, mechanical and acoustical knowledge can anyway takes any system to his optimum workings and we can bodly go where no one had gone before with the same speakers... 😊

Thanks a lot for your informative post  which will add weight to the idea that money alone dont define audio experience ....

Op I have 2 main systems where I compare my low cost system, musicality and musical involvement is very close. But liveness and hearing more that’s where my main 2 systems shine. Low cost systems can only do so much not enough to beat my main systems. What the Andra and my KLH does the ELac can’t.

The downsizing of mind all around will not result in a growing  interest  by older people or young adult to higher forms of meanings through music...

Music is like maths in a way, generally we must learn it young to enjoy it deeply...Under 14 years old... There is exception as i begun to love maths at 19 when i quit all bad maths teachers......😊 Maths is more like poetry than accountability ...

😊

I think you are right for the availability of better design at lower cost...

This is why my thread make sense...

Add to this fact the necessary better acoustics understanding nowadays and other mechanical and electrical noise floor improvement, audiophile experience can be cheap costs...

But we must pay the price now in study time and experiments...

A good audiophile system is not free nor plug and play even today...

I have three low-cost systems in various rooms and a "main" one in my living room.

I think I can safely say that the low-cost systems sound remarkably good for the price - better than anything I had when I was in college (late 1970s) and in the 1980s. And hey, I enjoyed those 1970s and 1980s systems just fine.

Modern speakers - at all price points - have made sonic strides. Modern electronics and manufacturing techniques have brought down the cost of entry systems.

Now, if we could only interest Gen Z in audio and get a sizeable population on the path to being audiophiles and supporting the manufacturers

Very true.... Thanks for your post...

I will only add that it is even more true if we embed rightfully in their mechanical,electrical and acoustical working dimensions the relatively low price synergetical system we bought or any system at any price anyway...

More than in the past , performance quality had almost no linear relation with price...

It is why i distinguish myself only two levels with relative variation between them : minimal and maximal acoustic satisfaction thresholds...

In many ways, and despite the loss of so many traditional brick-and-mortar audio shops, these are the best of times in this hobby. There are enormous choices of product from manufacturers who bring exceptional value for money. Having started out when vinyl was the main medium in recorded music and tape for duplication there were popular mass market brands and the stuff sold at the high end shops (I couldn’t afford nor would have wanted R2R as a poor university student, being quite happy enough to have a low powered Technics receiver, a turntable and a pair of "bookshelf" speakers.) Now exceptional performance doesn’t require an exceptional spend.

Your observation correspond to my experience in acoustics evaluation...

When things got right with gear synergy in a not too bad room, we live through a minimal acoustic satisfaction threshold ... This minimal level suppose in spite of some inevitable limitations a relatively good balance between all acoustics factors implied and when we live through it the first time by luck or/and by good planification , we feel a small ectasy or at least a great pleasure ... It is sometimes enough for many if not most people ...😊

Anyway to go further luck and gear synergy and a not too bad room will not be enough...

We will need if we want to go to the maximal acoustical satisfaction threshold, to recover this balance between all acoustic factors on a higher level of experience , we will need if not higher quality gear design upgrades, at least embeddings controls devices and means and tools in the mechanical, electrical and especially acoustical working dimensions of the system/ears/room ...

Acoustics is the main factor of audiophile experience and acoustics is more than room acoustic here ...

Thanks for your post...

It was a sub 2k system that was so satisfying had I started with it I might’ve stopped there.

Now a testimony from someone way more competent and knowledgeable than me by far, far margin ... I must keep my pride then i used the word "margin" instead of ocean apart 😁...

But observe that he does not even spoke about my obsession embeddings electrical, mechanical and acoustical controls at all nor about their i9mpact as i did... he spoke about the actual gear market quality at low price nowadays from his educated perspective :

The underlining is mine ... 😊

Now imagine buying the low cost gear recommended by M. Malitz here and imagine that instead of just plugging them on the wall and listening you try to embed them mechanically electrically and acoustically in a rightfull way as i did ?

If you do as i did you really can called your low cost system if not TOP maximal acoustical satisfaction threshold probably you can as i did for mine called it a minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold level reached ... And trust me it is if not enough it is almost enough ... 😉😊

Is there other people in audiogon with satisfying low cost system ? please spoke and explain why to us this is so ....I take "low cost" in a relative meaning way, if you go from a 100,000 bucks system downsizing to a 20,000 bucks one with no great loss of S.Q. your testimonies will be useful for all too... Low cost here means as a ratio between S.Q. and Price...

 

 

Frank Malitz

Former Owner Bob Carver Corporation (2015–present)Author has 6.7K answers and 10.2M answer views2y