Is there miracles in audio experience ?

Eureka! It's a miracle! 😎

Along time ago I gave up trying to chase down and understand all the phenomena that occur in my system that I simply don’t fully understand, but by the definition stated in your last paragraph, yeah, I hear those "miracles" frequently enough that they’re the main reason I keep listening. It can indeed be a spiritual and emotional experience! 😊

«All mysteries are not necessarily miracles and all miracles are not always mysteries...»-- Anonymus natural scientist

«“They say miracles are past; and we have our philosophical persons, to make modern and familiar, things supernatural and causeless.» -- Shakespeare, All’s end thats end well ..

 « Because they were so irrational in their beliefs  they never recognized any miracles as such»-- Anonymus observer

Great post! thanks...

Eureka! It's a miracle! 😎

Along time ago I gave up trying to chase down and understand all the phenomena that occur in my system that I simply don’t fully understand, but by the definition stated in your last paragraph, yeah, I hear those "miracles" frequently enough that they’re the main reason I keep listening. It can indeed be a spiritual and emotional experience! 😊

 

I think I know what you mean, but we would use very different language. I only use the word miracle in fun. If I do something well, that I typically do poorly, “It’s a miracle I did it correctly”!

In reality, I was trained and worked as a scientist for a decade, but never lost my fascination and curiosity about the world around me. I have never ceased to be a scientist. Scientific laws, like basic physical and chemical principles just blew me away… I took undergrad and graduate chemistry at the same time… the difference was we had tools well over 100 times more accurate in the graduate level chem. I could start measuring a physical constant in the under graduate lab to two decimals… then keep going another three in the graduate class.The beauty and absolute certainty of the outcome no matter how far down you measured is just so inspiring and unchanging. It shows the absolute certainty of the physical world. I very nearly became a physicist.

There is all of the incredible non-relativistic principles; expansion of bridge spans, freezing of water, coefficient of friction, Brownian motion, acceleration, the strong force, weak force. Then there is turbulence and chaotic behavior, and Quantum entanglement is so amazing and mind expanding.

I love high end audio, I very quickly dropped virtually any use of measurements pretty quickly. This is scientific as well. If you are in an area with too many variables, then observation becomes the primary tool. Surveying, creating classifications and slowly working towards understanding. My observation has been that great systems sound magical. So, what I want is a magical system. I use my knowledge of high end audio to get there. Magical sounding systems are in our head. Most folks exposed to a truly great system will experience the magic. It may not be their perfect system… this is what really well set up Wilson systems have been to me… incredible, magical… but not what I want if I can only have one system. My system, to me is magical and a very realistic representation of real music. It is magic.

Thanks for your great post ghdprentice....😊

i underline especially this from it  :

I love high end audio, I very quickly dropped virtually any use of measurements pretty quickly. This is scientific as well. If you are in an area with too many variables, then observation becomes the primary tool.

😊👌

reproduction of music is an illusion…. i pray for the appearance of the miracle every time i cue down the stylus….

i live in both worlds ; measure and listen and TRY to run single variable experiments….

i also believe paired photons are just …the…beginning….

my audio mentor, a high end manufacturer since 1977 describes the miracle as “ goosebumps “….. he is, besides a genius… a measure AND listen kind of audiophile….

To design any single component we need very precise set of electronical measures...

To use optimally an audio system , because there exist so much variables in the mechanical and electrical and acoustical working dimensions , the best is to use the tool which is the best fit for the  synchronization of  all measured and non measured, and non measurable  variables together and it is our ears /brain trained to do it...

Thanks for your post and participation ...

my audio mentor, a high end manufacturer since 1977 describes the miracle as “ goosebumps “….. he is, besides a genius… a measure AND listen kind of audiophile….

Miracles are faith no science. Often fraudulent.

Music itself is a miracle.

I stood unwound beneath the skies
And clouds unbound by laws
The cryin’ rain like a trumpet sang
And asked for no applause

(Bob Dylan)

You are lazy if you think that miracles dont exist as such , even verified, by thousands ...

And we dont need verified miracles when we observe anyway any living creatures working miraculously well ...

A rainbow is a miracle , guess why, even explained by science it stay an objective as well as a subjective miracle ...

A circle is a miracle for any mathematician ... and the number three can be also a miracle veiled in mystery and not only a mere evidence for children or philistines ...

The number 3 for Ramanujan one of the greatest mathematician in all history self taught but also who spoke each night about numbers with the goddess Namagiri who taught him  :

https://twitter.com/pickover/status/1718414165755249018/photo/1

All true geniuses in science are mystic , believer or not believer , true science is enough to be awaken...

Materialism techno-cultism is not science by the way ...It is a fraudulent worldview...

Nowadays scientific enterprise at the service of corporations is way more fraudulent than religious authorities inquiring about miracles... Ask the many director of scientific reviews saying so ...

If you need examples ask me ...

Read about Padre Pio ....

Or try the "fire yogi" if you dont like christianity...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj7iqdj1wT8&t=1197s

Ask james Randi helping you to debunk these miracles ...Good luck... 😁

By the way miracles are not opposite of science anymore than faith is opposed to science ...

The two walk and work together as your two arms or the two brain hemispheres guess why ?

a clue to the answer : How is not why and what need the two ...

Miracles are faith no science. Often fraudulent.

Thanks for this marvellous post ...

Music itself is a miracle.

I stood unwound beneath the skies
And clouds unbound by laws
The cryin’ rain like a trumpet sang
And asked for no applause

(Bob Dylan)

@cleeds 

Speaking of his early work, Dylan has said "I don’t know who wrote those songs", implying he, in effect, channeled but did not actually create, them. 

I can’t say whether he’d describe this as a major or minor miracle or indeed, any kind of miracle at all but it seems pretty miraculous to me.

The miracle for me was obtaining the new Luxman L509Z. After plugging more than a dozen high quality amplifiers into my system I found nirvana for my ears. No more l lugging heavy amps to FedEx. My neurosurgeon is very happy for me.

System synergy is the miracle ,sometimes it takes several tries ,

having owned a Audio store ,it took knowing the Sonic attributes to everything 

to recommend the sonics you are trying to achieve , within a specific $$ parameter.

Just one thing I got to say
I need a miracle every day
It takes dynamite to get me up
Too much of everything is just enough
I need a miracle every day. 

Are...

The marriage of  which will become poetry  with which will become  music is a miracle , it is understanding made flesh, of which actual  separate speech and separate music are  born ...

Like apes and the ancestors of men, we all evolve from a common spirit ...

If someone know how to listen and understood speech nowadays he become a poet ... In old times singing/speaking  was a tool to kept people together ...Today it is often  a divisive arm  because people had  lost their intuitive understanding and speech is reduced to his prose skelton ...

Dylan was one of my rare buying success vinyl when i was 16 years old ... I listened almost exclusively classical music , except for Joan Baez, Leo Ferre and Dylan... Reading about set theory and Dylan poetry was my only motivation to read english in a city where no one spoke it and needed to spoke it ...There was no internet at this time ...😊

@cleeds

Speaking of his early work, Dylan has said "I don’t know who wrote those songs", implying he, in effect, channeled but did not actually create, them.

I can’t say whether he’d describe this as a major or minor miracle or indeed, any kind of miracle at all but it seems pretty miraculous to me.

 

My music miracle:

Being convinced, after a few years of complete denial, to give streaming a shot by some very smart members right here on audiogon.

It's a miracle! Both the fact that I was convinced and the streaming experience.

I am forever thankful to those enablers.

@mahgister the philosopher. You get it, it is all a miracle when the synergy is just right. Happy Friday. 

Exactly, In music as in Nature or even in mathematics the dynamical synchronization is the root of all ... Godel was the first to point to it in maths, Goethe in natural phenomena and Bach in music ...And Anirban Bandyopadhyay pointed to it as the root of manifested consciousness with his genius work with microtubules ...

https://www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-journals/discovery-of-quantum-vibrations-in-microtubules-inside-brain-neurons-corroborates-controversial-20-year-old-theory-of-consciousness

If it is not a miracle as in my AKG K340 synchonized dynamic and electret cells in their dual acoustic chamber , i dont know what miracles are ...

We are surrounded by miracles which we call not such by habit or by day to day brainwashing ... Let go our habits and the sun rise always differently which is a miracle ...

Any piece of mathematic contain potentially ALL mathematic by a pulsed synchronized transformation of our brain called thinking ... Any part of nature contain potentially and express all nature by our synchronized observations ... Any piece of music can be transformed in all music there was and there is ... Listen the "art of the fugue" by Bach , my best artwork ever because every interpretation differed so much between one another that this is striking for the same music , you will see it ...

«There is only one miracle everywhere waiting for us to be seen as a patient beggar »-- Anonymus dude reading Spinoza and the Veda at the same time ...

 «Miracles can be seen but they do not needed  to be believed in or doubted, any fact is a caterpillar which may become a butterfly » Anonymus  onlooker

@mahgister the philosopher. You get it, it is all a miracle when the synergy is just right. Happy Friday.

My daily search for intelligent life on this planet often begins with this forum.  Today I was paid back in spades.

It's been said that there are no absolute truths; only workable truths and relative truths.  As an audiphile, this can both comforting and frustrating.  Comforting in that the "workable" systems we configure can be musically satisfying -- to the degree where they produce strong emotional responses.  Relative to lesser systems, they provide exponentially better sonic results. Frustrating went we know "the absolute sound" will never be acheived.  If, by chance, we wake up tomorrow morning and discover our audio IQ's have expanded by a factor of 2, there's still a great deal we don't understand, and will neverr understand about the phemenon of reproducing music in our homes. 

To me, it's a miracle when those with broadly diverse backgrounds, idealogies, religion, and social status can put those aside and identify, validate and celebrate their commen links and connections.  Music is a great example. When we are engaging in those activities we are demonstrating who we truly are.  Everything else is a distortion of what we are.

I'll leave you with a question:

A thermos keeps our hot beverages hot, and our cold beverages cold.  How does it know the difference?

I'll leave you with a question:

A thermos keeps our hot beverages hot, and our cold beverages cold.  How does it know the difference?

A thermos is a wall put in place by Maxwell demon for some unknown reason and Maxwell thought that this demon was waiting to create a hole as a door or as a window to peek through ...Even Maxwell did not know if the demon has his secret door or not to operate his plot ...The plot was later called the Szilard engine...A miraculous engine for sure ...

Very well said.. Thanks...

To me, it's a miracle when those with broadly diverse backgrounds, idealogies, religion, and social status can put those aside and identify, validate and celebrate their commen links and connections.  Music is a great example. When we are engaging in those activities we are demonstrating who we truly are.  Everything else is a distortion of what we are.

@cleeds @waytoomuchstuff indeed….perhaps the very reason i return here"now and again….

i believe in “ flow “ a transcendent state ( perhaps of 2X on a great system ? )…. but it can appear and collapses at the muse’s whim….. I understand the Dylan quote on several different levels… the creative act is ( for me anyway ) rarely 100% conscious….

great thread @magister my advice is ignore the grammatical nit pickers….

Life is a miracle. As a matter of fact all manifested phenomenon are miracles. As stated above, all true creativity is miraculous.

As an art photographer I gradually became aware of the fleeting miracles that could be captured on film. Minor White said, "The spirit will wait on the artist" until he/she has registered the phenomenon. How true I found that to be.

As a performing musician the communication that can be sensed and understood is truly a miracle. All the hard work is rewarded.

I have achieved a miracle with my listening room acoustics and speakers and amplification and wiring that defies analysis, but heard it immediately when I stumbled upon it.

I recently upgraded a power supply and it sounds like I changed two major components. I am still scratching my head over this one.

Attune yourself to the mysteries for the richest living. Every minute contains miracles.

I do not know if I would call them miracles.  Magic is more like it. The most seemingly insignificant adjustment when everything seems to align harmoniously and brings amazement to the experience is where I am coming from.

I’m familiar with the following miracles:

Joey DeFracesco -- a raw talent from few years old started playing organ and never stopped till the his heart beat ended.

Bireli Lagrene -- another miracle

Frank Zappa...

All these 3 musicians never started from sheet music or learning music theories, but yet able to bring LOTS of it from the depth of their souls

I’ve been practicing instruments by ear, but to achieve such virtuoso perfection like three above I’ve mentioned, I should’ve really started thinking about going through music theories to help myself to get to that level I’ve been dreaming from childhood to become musician.

Anyways if dream of musician comes true, it’s definitely a miracle -- a miracle that didn't unfortunately happen to me.

My miracles appear on those occasions when I have found myself so involved in the music that I no longer hear anything related to the performance of my audio system. It truly is a revelatory experience, and unfortunately somewhat rare. It is somewhat analogous to my emotional response to a day on a mountain with powder snow or fly fishing. I'm so blown away by the activity that the rest of my world doesn't exist. This state of mind is, I think, what I live for! :-)

Thanks for this great post, by the way i dont know Joey DeFrancesco ...

I will look at him ... I love Hammond organ jazz ...😊

I’m familiar with the following miracles:

Joey DeFracesco -- a raw talent from few years old started playing organ and never stopped till the his heart beat ended.

Bireli Lagrene -- another miracle

Frank Zappa...

All these 3 musicians never started from sheet music or learning music theories, but yet able to bring LOTS of it from the depth of their souls

I’ve been practicing instruments by ear, but to achieve such virtuoso perfection like three above I’ve mentioned, I should’ve really started thinking about going through music theories to help myself to get to that level I’ve been dreaming from childhood to become musician.

Anyways if dream of musician comes true, it’s definitely a miracle -- a miracle that didn’t unfortunately happen to me.

I will not add anything to your great post save my thanks in the name of all ...

Life is a miracle. As a matter of fact all manifested phenomenon are miracles. As stated above, all true creativity is miraculous.

As an art photographer I gradually became aware of the fleeting miracles that could be captured on film. Minor White said, "The spirit will wait on the artist" until he/she has registered the phenomenon. How true I found that to be.

As a performing musician the communication that can be sensed and understood is truly a miracle. All the hard work is rewarded.

I have achieved a miracle with my listening room acoustics and speakers and amplification and wiring that defies analysis, but heard it immediately when I stumbled upon it.

I recently upgraded a power supply and it sounds like I changed two major components. I am still scratching my head over this one.

Attune yourself to the mysteries for the richest living. Every minute contains miracles.

@singingg - I do art photography myself (and used to do concert photography in the 70's), and Minor White was great, yeah? 

Sometimes miracles happen in our room for our "sun" brain by the "sunflowers" speakers which dont work so miraculously well in the showroom ...

It takes sometimes the right environment to see the miracle bloom ...

«In the new study, graduate student Christopher Brooks, postdoctoral researcher Hagatop Atamian and Harmer looked at which genes were switched on (transcribed) in sunflowers grown indoors in laboratory growth chambers, and in sunflowers growing in sunlight outdoors....

"Things that you define in a controlled environment like a growth chamber may not work out in the real world," she (Atamian) said. »

https://www.sott.net/article/485631-Mechanism-for-how-sunflowers-follow-the-sun-discovered

« Great miracles need little help»-- Groucho Marx 🤓

The optimization of my low cost active speakers is finished with the low cost tube preamplifier i bought from Douk audio P2 preamp with cheap tubes...(50 bucks)

But the soundfield i know live through because it encompass the listener position is so fluid and organic, i cannot believe it ...

For sure all that result from months of optimization work, changing even the wave guide of the tweeter and the rear porthole design ...Vibration controls, electrical control and acoustic controls...

But the results is a balanced sound filling the room well, not just my nearfield position ...

The miracle is how in the world is it possible to benefit from a so much beautiful soundfield for peanuts (150 bucks  speakers  right out of the box dont compare to my past Tannoy dual gold design ) ... I did it but i do not understand how each modifications can add up to such balanced experience  ...

When a system is synergetical as mine is and after his optimization, you pity even those with a better system because better than mine is impossible without a lot more money and works invested...

I prefer my cheap miracle amazement to a better sound with way better gear as a trivial fact but with  a way higher cost...

Creativity made audio and amazing hobby...

Upgrading race without end a sad affair ...

I am so happy that i felt the need to write it ...

😊

Interesting suggestion! Thanks jaymark

I wish you the best new year of your life and to your family ...🍹