After years of separates, I'm going integrated. Anyone else do the same?

My Made in  U.S.A. Coda -CSIB  integrated amplifier is a Excellent  integrated, Many people still don’t know that Coda has been around over 35 years and all were Engineers with Nelson Pass at Threshold under Nelson went solo ,Coda has 3 power options for the same monies up to 18  1st watts into pure class A , the biggest low noise potted toroidal transformer I have ever seen at under $15k   It’s 3,000 Va  and over 120 short term amps on demand . Beware  of companies using cheap silver round  Alps volume pots ,they degrade low level detail for sure , the Coda has a Electronic Burr Brown class A  type it has Mosfets,fet, and 40 bipolor transistors on the outputs, 10 year warranty for $6500 or less, a true Great bargain in Audio .  Mike at Audio Archon is great to deal with and very competitive .

I went the opposite route.  I actually started with an integrated system.  Some cheap Japanese junk by Hitachi back in the 80s.  I then got into surround sound and my music playback was via a series of surround sound receivers.  My first "serious" integrated system was a Peachtree Nova 150.  

I moved to separates because I was unable to source an integrated that I could afford/live with, that featured bass management. I have perennially faced space constraints which dictated bookshelf speakers with understandably limited capacity for bass reproduction. 

Although I eventually managed to upgrade my living space and now use Canton floor standers for my main system, I still use separates because I like the flexibility when upgradeitis strikes.  In my bedroom system I use Kef LS50s driven by separates which allows me to channel the signal through a subwoofer with a highpass filter that reduces the load on the little Kefs. 

I"m fully cognizant that there are other means of accomplishing this, but there is a limit to how "separate" I want to get! :-)

Last August 2021 I made the decision to scale back. I wanted a simple system consisting of an integrated amplifier and good CD player. I had an Oppo BDP105D > Ayre Cx-7emp player > Ayre K-5xeMP Preamp > Mark Levinson no.334 > Totem Forest Signature Speakers. I also had a classic Anthem I225 Integrated that pulled duty on occasion.

I selected the Naim Supernait 3 and their CD5si. Then I discovered that the CD5si was an entry level component. As a result I kept the Oppo BDP105D and purchased a Supernait 3. Then a Naim nDAC along and their Super Lumina DIN5-5. Thinking I was satisfied I jammed until March 2022. Then after hearing what the 3 piece system could provide I wanted more. I purchased a Teddy Pardo XPS and their TeddyCap SE. The Teddy XSP came with a free prototype power cable. So far it’s pulling it’s own weight.

Summation: I started with a 5 piece system and I'm now back to a 5 piece system. However I’ve gotta give it to Naim, their kit sounds amazing. The Teddy Pardo power products are quiet good as well. Better than Naim’s? Dunno but I really like Naim’s Integrated amp. 80 Naim watts/400VA transformer!

N

NEVER!!

I like the idea of an integrated...but hard to biamp...

I also own an Ayre AX-5/20. It replaced more expensive separates (Modwright KWA 150 SE and Cary Slp-05 pre) and sounds vastly better imho and takes up a lot less space.

Good high end companies seem to be investing a lot of R&D into integrateds these days.There are a lot of good ones in the price range we are discussing.

I love separates and integrated amps.  Anyone in the hobby long enough knows we must have multiples systems to use and try out.  Especially when you come across vintage gear at low prices.  I enjoy music and love to switch it up from time to.  But nothing wrong with integrated, I'm currently enjoying my Luxman 590, and next month I throw back into the loop my MX-1.  What makes this hobby so much fun is the synergy of equipment.  I heard several albums repeatedly with different speaker/amp, and they each bring a new flavor :)

Main 2 channel system is all separates - ARC REF preamps and Simaudio amplification and I may look again in a few years. I have gone AVM integrated (class D amp and pre with tube compliment) for my family room system and couldn't be happier. I dont see it listed in any response. Should definitely be on the list.  

Nothing wrong with integrateds, at all.

A long time ago (15 years) I replaced an amp and a preamp with an integrated. I had a Belles Preamp and B&K amp, not "high end" but reliable and powerful. I wanted a remote for the preamp, and my main dealer said if I was going to replace the preamp, he had a deal on a Plinius integrated that was far superior to what I had for only a couple hundred bucks more than a new preamp. It also has a good phono stage that can accommodate MC carts (but I ended up getting a separate Sutherland Insight phono stage which improved the sound very noticeably). 

Less cables with the integrated (although my phono stage eliminated that benefit) and all things being equal, they are less expensive because there is only one box to manufacture, one power cable to buy and no interconnect needed from preamp to amp. Unless I had some reason for wanting a different amp and preamp, I would only get an integrated. Some guys like more boxes and complexity - I prefer the opposite.

Something I'd like to comment on  is the DAC.  While I generally think integrated is a sound decision given the circumstances described, the idea of modular DACs does not seem to keep up with the actual evolution of DACs - at least in the case of the McIntosh DA2, which is what I have in my C2700.  This is a lovely preamp, don't get me wrong, and I convinced myself that I was saving money when I initially bought into the built-in, yet modular philosophy - however - I suspect that McIntosh is not truly keeping up with DAC evolution.  The DA2 is now 2-1/2 years old and let's think about how many times the DAC throne has been "overthrown" in that period.  Understanding McIntosh can not reasonably be expected to make available in real-time a state of the art DAC on a small board that slots into the back of your pre-amp or integrated amp, it does seem reasonable that upgrades would come along on a 2-yr cycle so that those who buy-into the modular concept feel current and are more-importantly achieving peak performance.  An amazingly long-winded way of saying I agree of your leanings but carefully consider your DAC use-case.

I have been back and forth over the last 25 years as I worked my way up the food chain. I also saved for many years to be able to build out a completely new gear system. I retired what was my then current main separates system to the Family room. VAC CLA1 MKII Pre Amp with an Odyssey Stratos+ (that ended up in place when my Counterpoint NPS-400 left the house)

I wanted something more simple for my wife to use as well as not worrying about the tubes, extra ICs and PCs. I wanted something with HT Bypass as I integrate my main 2CH into my HT system. I wanted a decent Phono section because my wife just bought me a Rega P3.

Due to budget restrictions and retirement in mind, I decided on the Luxman 505UX MKII, a Rotel 1572, and Fyne Audio F502SPs with the Rega.

As you can see, there is a large love for the newer Luxman gear. Even the A/B units are still Class A up to 6 Watts. The sound and control is excellent. The Phono is excellent for built in. I only run Line Straight. Every time I try and use Tone Controls or Loudness, I always come back to Line Straight. There if you need to play with them. It also has a full Tape Loop and Meters that don't tell you a damn thing but look cool.

I recommend any of the Lux's

Did it years ago and bought a Marantz Pm11s3 and love it  

Since this issue is integrated compared to separates, and not necessarily brands, I will say that, yes, I did switch from reputable mid-priced separates (SS) to a tube int. amp with an up and coming reputation, I have observed.  The price of the separates was around the same as the int. amp.  The decision was immediate with the audition.  The tube int. was just much more musical in every way.  The separates were neutral sounding, using Tone Control to vary the sound output. My system is "cleaner" without the back wrenching effort to move the power amp when required. And I am happy!  

Did it years ago and bought a Marantz Pm11s3 and love it  

+1 and highest recommendations for both Coda Integrated and for Mike Kay of Audio Archon.  

Been using Coda CSiB v1 - 150 watts into 8 ohms per channel with first 18 watts in Class A since acquiring one 3 months ago to pair with Thiel CS 2.4s which are not the easiest speakers to drive (wicked impedance curve, dropping down to something like 2.7 ohms at 600 hz). The CSiB drives them with ease. Prior to the Coda had been listening with Bryston amp pre amp combo - 3Bst amp and BP20 preamp, no complaints, and 18 years of good listening; but the CSiB is a big jump up in class. Simply effortless handling of those notoriously hard to drive Thiels.

I'm all "in" for integrated amps. A couple of years ago I have purchased a Marantz 1180DC and 1152DC Integrated amps from the mid '70s in excellent condition and I'm very happy with the sound that coming out of my Klipsch Forte. These amps are built like a tank and are design to create and correct the sound you want for your music room.  Furthermore, while getting the 1152DC service my local Audio Service Tech of 40 years (yeah, we're in out 60s) was very impress with the quality parts that Marantz put into these amps comparing to other name brand integrates and receivers from this era and today.

Separates will always sound better most of the times, but integrated make sense for bedrooms and small rooms with simple setups.

I went from a Naim pre/power to a Creek integrated.

No regrets.

In fact the Creek is actually more powerful than the Naim was (not that I ever get to go past halfway on the volume knob).

Plus it's nice to have a remote control.

I would love to go integrated. I currently run a McIntosh MX-130 and MC-7150. I would love to have an MA452. Only thing holding me back is money😎

Hi, having run my Musical Fidelity separates since about 1980 and decided I needed a new and cleaner looking solution with better resolution. I recently surrendered to a Circle Labs A200 and do not regret it at all. I wanted a simple integrated amplifier with no other fancy additions as I have a T+A DAC 8 DSD and Wolf Server. The A200 is delightfully musical and detailed and foot tapping good.

I finished assembling my one & only component system nearly 22 years ago. Transport>DAC>Pre>Amp>Speakers. The end result sounded fine to these ears and actually exceeded my expectations but I was unmoved. What was missing? Immediacy, for lack of a better word? So much gear, so many cables. So I took that fork in the road, downsized to integrated amp(s) and CDPs’ and never looked back. Zero regrets.

No chance.

I did the same and went integrated and never looking back. Primaluna EVO

So integrated, there is only NAD C658 (or M12) [or Node] signal to pair of subs each equipped with built-in Hypex FA-253 to power the OB-subs, and active DSP crossover LXmini set. In the most minimalist form, the are only Node and speakers - and the Node could be easily mounted out of sight - since it is controlled by tablet and phone apps.

Ring out the old ring in the new. 
 

I tried it last year with Audio Research, going from REF 150, REF 3 linestage & PH8 phono to the GSi75 integrated.  I was shocked how good it sounded with the solid state on board phono and an impressive DAC.  My problem was now my Wilson Sophias were underpowered and the bass would cut out at loud volumes.  It drove me nuts and I had to return to separates.  For a smaller listening space I would totally love a nice sleek system with an integrated at the helm.  Good luck in your search.

@mapman 

Dark Horse is my favorite George album.

@voodoolounge yes very underrated.  That and George Harrison are two of my favs. 

I think it depends on your system spend and what you care about. 

For me I care about one thing a stereo system so amp, signal conditioner, preamp, DAC, media server and good speakers.  I am in process of upgrading now and think I will select the Roon Server.  Though vinyl has some great attributes once you play an album a few times you have degradation of the quality not to mention record player are not fans of sound/vibrations.

The stereo store I used to go to, prior to going out of business, always tried to sell you on the most expensive equipment.  They convinced me to abandon my technical experience and just listen.  I think many people convince themselves that a high price mean better, I did.

Years later I needed work done on my amp, Levinson 331, expensive at the time I bought it.  The technician I went to was the same tech at the previous store and he said "the sales people will always sell you on a more expensive part that is not always better."  Since I like the sound of my Levinson he suggested to look at Parasound JC-5.  20+ years after I bought the Levinson the Parasound with 3.5X more power, and the spec's is a little more than I paid!  Probably could have bought Parasounds JC-1 mono blocks for less than the 331.

This time I am reading the reviews but only focusing on the technical stuff not how the listener perceived the sound, that's too subjective.  I'm spending a lot more time investigating/researching room, amp, DAC, speaker performance. 

I also was sold on B&W 801's and Wilson WATT Puppies.  I have the 802's and like them but after reading about Vandersteen's, link below, I was impressed with the design.  Most speaker's are not phase correct which means the woofer maybe pushing air while the midrange is pulling air.  If all frequencies are +/- a few dB's you may not be able to hear this but it should matter.  I'm an aerospace engineer, not practicing anymore but still cling to technical solutions.  This along with other designs/ solutions by Richard Vandersteen make sense to me (no I don't work with Vandersteen.  In my opinion many of his thoughts / designs are ahead of there times.)  Many speakers are slightly bright which draws your attention to them.  In my opinion Wilson's and B&W's are slightly bright, and that is what drew me to them and still does!  But if I go by technical performance only then I see some deficiencies.  You need to make up your own mind. 

Currently my system is divided into 26% speaker, 26% amp, 26% preamp/DAC, 5% CD player, the rest is interconnects, speaker cable, and signal conditioning.  I plan on changing that mixture to 35% speaker, 18% amp, 23% pre/DAC, 10% signal conditioning, 4% media server and 9% interconnects and speaker cables.  I am focusing on the weakest link, the speakers, which has the most error first.

SoundStage-Richard-Vandersteen.pdf (troelsgravesen.dk) 

Also love that particular video.  It’s a lot of fun.  Also love this one which is simply joyous:

I have a hegel h160 and bought a Keces E40 and a topping D70s. All drive all my speakers fine. Trying to decide to either step up my speakers or go with a small but quality speaker and see if the little amp will drive it as well.  May sell the Hegel or may keep it. But size wise, and weight wise, the Keces and Topping combo is nice.  Considering a variety of speakers up to 2K or so.  Just want a nice sounding system for moderate volumes with less clutter too.

If one isn't chasing that last bit of perfection, whatever they think it may be, it can be done with great satisfaction.

Eugene81-every audio piece that I have owned or have heard the combined multiple components in them like a dac or phono stage have always been a compromise. It seems the manufacturers think giving you 75% of the sound quality of their best standalone dac/phono preamp is good enough in an integrated. If that’s ok with the buyer then all is good.

I debated for a while about separates v. integrated. IMO, we spend too much time talking about how it looks, and not enough about sound. I ended up with an Ayon integrated that is amazing, but had to remove a shelf to place on the rack. I am not a fan of accidentally kicking components not neatly placed on a rack. That said, I have no issues with integrated, and in fact will stay with this brand (Ayon), and integrated from now on. Absolutely nothing wrong with it, and nobody can prove differently. You don't need dual amps, quad amps to make the music sound better than you ever wanted it to.  You usually need a separate phono stage, but not always the case.

Interesting that people ASSume any integrated will sound worse than separates. I've been using them for years with the latest one being a Primare I32 with the add-on streamer and it's wonderful and sounds excellent. Personal bias is really hard to admit, apparently. 

No, not me.  I started with a receiver system back in 1973, 1 year out of high school.  Since then I have had 3 systems of separates.  My present system is still a work in progress (about 3 years to get it where it is) but new speakers are presently on order and I will upgrade the phono stage by the end of this year as well.  When I get too old and have to live in a smaller space I will go to an integrated amp system.  For now, this one is fantastic and I love every component and every change in upgrade.

Anyone who wants to cut to the chase for better sound rather than do it themselves should strongly consider an integrated amp these days in order to cut to the chase. The technology has come a long way and there is probably one out there for everyone at most any price point. Leave the technology integration to the experts.  Then you can just focus on the right speakers and room acoustics.

I did it as well…Krell K300i with DAC.  Class A with power!  Go with quality and good support like Krell, McIntosh, Pass Labs etc..

Other integrated amp makers worthy of consideration include NAD, Cambridge Audio, Bel Canto Rega and Rogue. 

I sold the separates three yrs ago for all the same reasons and bought a Devialet Expert Pro. One of my best decisions ever. Unless you just like to swap individual components like DAC’s for the fun of it (it can be fun, no argument) I don’t see how you can buy a streamer, DAC, phono stage, pre and power amp + cables and power conditioning of equal quality for anywhere near the same price. Especially not one in a single sleek minimalist chrome chassis.

Yes, after years of separates in a nice rack with all the bells and whistles, I went to a Peachtree Nova 300 and it blew the doors off of anything I'd run before. 300WPC @ 8ohms, great DAC built-in, 111db S/N ratio, .004 THD. Simply stunning sound quality.

I’ll go one further. I’m toying with the idea of some powered ATC 150’s feed by a Lumin P1. No speaker cables. Just a pair of xlr’s. Lean, mean and clean.

I have a beautiful sounding Luxman integrated, which has allowed me to feed a secondary system with that awesome Speakers A/B/A&B. Now my secondary system is fed by a great front end  common to both systems. This is one key advantage of a traditional integrated.

I have a McIntosh and a Marantz Ruby integrated along with separates from AR and PrimaLuna .  I’d recommend spending the money on room treatments - sound panels, bass traps, etc.,  There are a ton of decorative options with potential WAF, if that’s an issue.  If the room acoustics aren’t tuned, the source doesn’t really matter.  Ask any musician. 

It all depends on how you like to spend your time. Sometimes I just want to listen, but other times I’m in them mood to explore and tweak.

So I have 6 separate means of amplification (monoblocks, solid state power, tube power, classic, newer) 4 separate preamps (tube, SS, multichannel, classic, newer) 4 different sets of speakers plus surround, and a NOS DAC and a Delta Sigma DAC.

So how many different configuration possibilities are there? Do things sound different? What works well together? My opinions evolve.

So at this stage I don’t care about clutter; actually I love it. Maybe sometime I won’t.

One thing I will say about integrated systems: they are meant to work together, so you should get good synergies between the sections in the component. HOWEVER, if you do get the urge to explore, you may find the preamp section only mates well with the built-in amp, and vice versa, and so you can’t really convert your integrated into a separate effectively. Those extra ins and outs on integrated units are generally for convenience, not necessarily high quality interaction with separates.

It’s all just fun though.

@mapman 

"What is life" was the first song I learned on guitar. I was 11. I miss 11...

 It’s a timeless tune. One of my favorites written by a Beatle and that video does it due justice.

I've been a long time owner of separates but agree today's integrated amps can be pretty awesome.    Im having a 300b built that can be an "integrated" amp with it's two inputs and volume controls, but I plan on using it as a power amp with a pre in front of it I plan on trying it with a source alone and with a pre-amp.   Who knows , but I suspect it will sound better with a preamp.

I also purchased the Luxman 590axii but hadn't heard Luxman is "getting out of the Class A business".  A good integrated forms the basis for a "compact reference system", which is what I tried to put together since I really am space-limited.  However, I'm intrigued with the new Atmasphere Class D power amps and if the industry can start making these small and light, as good or better sounding as Class A and at a value price, then I could see going to separates.  I don't have to move the Luxman.  Once was enough putting it on an upper shelf.  It weighs 65 lbs.  and it took two of us. 

Isn’t that basically a receiver without the am/fm tuner?