Well, the forum doesn't have ethics, people have ethics. Or they don't.
A dealer should reveal himself to be a dealer, or he has no ethics.
And who wants to deal with someone with no ethics...?
About users with hidden agendas
If you know that a user is a dealer and they fail to disclose and attacks other users because they make a point against their interest, do you expose the user?
I know of a gentleman here that continuously posts and goes after people and does not disclose who he is.
What are the ethics of this forum?
541 responses Add your response
Attacking other users is contrary to the forum guidelines and that would become a matter for the moderators.to address. Should you feel strongly about the situation (clearly you do) I think that it would be preferable to quietly report the poster about which you have knowledge rather than to publicly name and shame.
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Praise in public. Chew in private. If all else fails you don't have to accept the insults. You can always return them to sender. If what they are saying is the truth or a lie? A simple "here's the facts"? usually clears thing up.. I've caught audio2design a few times reinventing him/herself. There were a few that did it, trying to be a sneak, you'll see a LOT of that around MCs post. They arrive like flies to $hit. Some ONLY post when he does. You can guess who they really are? To tell the truth, ebm is right, WHO CARES!! Regards |
I am tired of Audio Troy always saying what they sell is better than what some person is seeking. He does it in a innocent kind of way. Example, a guy was looking at a Mac and right away Audio Troy came out with “not good resolution in the Mac, our T&A brand is much better” or something to that effect It gets tiring, you would never see Atmosphere say that, he is a true gentleman. |
Nor would you see @verdantaudio or duke lejuene do that crap. |
Baby needs a new pair of shoes and the rent is due! :-) The funny part stereo5 is true audiophile junkies are SLOW to part with their goods. A used car salesman isn't. "We're gonna put you in something today EVEN if we have to steal one and sell it to ya!" I had a guy tell me that.. I'm looking for an "XYZ". A good salesman, listens and says have you thought about ZYX or (YOU should know as a salesman) there mind is made up. NOW what accessories do they need to be happy when they try to set up. Customer first, Salesman LAST! Great equipment at a reasonable price, you don't have to "Jump the customer" to sell something. On AG it's actually kind of underhanded for others that are not selling as a business but to clean the closet. :-) I will offer FREE services just to piss someone off though. I don't mind taking advantage of the stupid folks, I like doing that. But honest "I don't know", folks that is just BAD stuff. Reaping what you sow, Karma, bad mojo, it will come back to bite ya. Stupid though.. Great fun!! Time to feed the chickens.. Regards |
@stereo5 +1 Yes. And he has even tried that same rubbish against Ayre Acoustics, no less! |
Then how is he a "gentleman"? I have seen this here and other forums. Sometimes it is not just the dealer, but regular posters who try to get "too" involved. Supporting a product/dealer is one thing. But when the posters try to defend a dealer - that kind of comes off as if they themselves are the dealers or have some agenda/motive. |
I've seen posters also speak ill of a Dealer because they received a peace of used equipment that some how show up DOA. Dealers don't sell DOA gear. Then there is the plug and play crew that miss a switch for XLR/RCA or not plug the power cable in all the way.. Those are always fun, they open a thread and slam the Dealer. I really like the ones about shipping damage. It's usually a packing issue 90% of the time. You put enough stickers on a box it will get handled a little easier. Packing is a whole different story.. Few sellers are good at packing. They usually forget the customer has to get the package, intact, before the deal is complete. Not get the money. :-) What can I say I HATE peanuts! Except when it cost peanuts.. Regards |
I would expect a dealer to always disclose this information. I see them do it frequently. If I thought someone was I would ask a none threatening / question about it. Actually I did the other day. Someone made the most absurd claim about cost having noting to do with performance. I just asked what his equipment was. He then said he manufactures it… and disclosed everything.
Vested interest makes a difference. When I got out of grad school I understood the concept. But, I always thought it was a very conscious process… it is not. I then spent nearly 40 years managing… line people, world-wide projects, and working among executive teams… it is not… it is typically 100% subconscious and frequently the higher the “intelligence” of the person (frequently accompanied by low EQ… and low self examination) and it is 100% invisible to the person. It was for me in early life… it takes real work to see it… and a high EQ. This is why it is such a big deal. Vested interest completely changes your values. Also drives a lot of egos on this site… because folks worked hard and value the system they put together… so the KNOW. |
👍 +1
A selfless lack of agenda is what makes for a great forum IMO. Any hidden sell agenda is equal to politics in professional sports - utterly gross. Is it not human nature though, how many pontificate as a means to justify their choices whether they’re in the business or not?
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i suspect there are numerous industry people who post here, with their biases and agendas hidden, giving people ’advice’... some properly self identify... many do not -- 'tis one of the big problems on an anonymous forum like this, where things go by the honor system... ... but often people are dishonorable so a word to the wise here, especially newbies, please beware when folks here are trying to ’help’ you by recommending x-y-z, be it equipment, tweaks, cables, fuses ... sometimes they are actually helping themselves even though it looks like they are being generous and kind so click the username, see the details, see their system, see their a-gon user feedback as buyer or seller (don't have any? beware...), see and carefully past posts -- see where they are coming from... if one comes here naive and lazy, one can and will ’get played’ |
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I genuinely like several dealers (including some of the more high pressure ones) and I'm not ready to diss anybody for wanting to post on this site. This site attracts a heck of a lot of highly intelligent folks. At the very least, I'm sure we can garner a bit of pleasure when we discern a bit of shilling. |
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I understand MillerCarbon is an agent for Townshend. He needs to be included. @ PEDOREB Interesting. He has been pushing the Townshend Podiums aggressively for some time now. Since he appears to be a highly regarded commenter he practically has me sold and they are on my "to do" list. Can anyone vouch for them? |
I recall back when MC was touting the Townshend springs but some here were concerned about the price. I, and others, commented on how good the IsoAcoustic devices worked for ourselves and it was then that he went into overdrive with the Nobsound springs citing them as the alternative to the Townshends if cost were a factor and to ignore the offerings from IsoAcoustic. I found that more than a bit strange. All the best, |
He sent me a nasty PM when i busted him in a lie and Duke took him to task for deleting a post I replied to so that it lacked context. The text of that nasty PM his username has “ suspended “ next to it. Good riddance. Re Townshend. No doubt Max RIP was a creative innovator who was a “ measure and listen “ guy. BUT there are many, many vibration isolation products out there from long running storied firms. This forum improved by varied inputs and those with wide experience and restraint for hyperbole. Jim
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*g* Overall, I like MCs' expositions on this 'n that.... ...but when he seems to be 'nudging an item' in particular, I've got this 'black out syndrome' that has great timing... ;) To Be True, I'm a manufacturer....of something that has absolutely NOTHING to do with audio Anything. Given our current 'economic climate', I won't go aghast if someone brings their work to the forums. It's just good manners to leave your work at the door on entry, like taking one's shoes off before walking on a white carpet.... ;) |
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@jjss49 said: "[S]o a word to the wise here, especially newbies, please beware when folks here are trying to ’help’ you by recommending x-y-z, be it equipment, tweaks, cables, fuses ... sometimes they are actually helping themselves even though it looks like they are being generous and kind...". This is very good advice. I’d take it a step further--leaving aside dealers who use the forum to try to garner sales, or "shills," some people may, with good intentions encourage a product because they like it/bought it/use it in their system when it may not be the right choice for someone else for any number of reasons. That can happen even when the poster promoting the product isn’t getting any financial return from a sale. Which take us into the whole subject of system matching and the dreaded "synergies" or complementary components. I’ve been doing this a long time and don’t have a holistic view. I think I would add that short of listening to the precise equipment you intend to buy in your system (one of the possible benefits of the direct sales model as long as there is a right of return that doesn’t involve exorbitant repackaging and shipping fees), you are shooting in the dark. Yes, there are some well known combinations of equipment that a consensus of users like and use, but to borrow from MC’s philosophy for a moment (I know), it may be good to be an outlier and try something different from the rest of the pack. Where each user draws the line in terms of risk, financial exposure, equipment churn, etc. will vary. I think some people just like to try different equipment. I’m not necessarily going to condemn that, though I’ve pretty much managed to buy and enjoy long term. How did I do it? I can’t really point to any guru-bestowed wisdom. I think it is exposure and seat time as much as it is talking on forums like this one. I’d also say it is good to have a mentor, but they will undoubtedly have biases too. At least it’s cheaper than collecting old Ferraris, or buying vintage WE 300B tubes. Bill Hart |
I agree with Whart and believe his point is true. In some cases, people recommend gear they own that is an improvement over the gear they previously owned but in the broad sense of what is available in the market, the gear being recommended may be just ok. When people post their systems, it can provide context on their recommendations. It is also nice when people provide comparisons between the gear they are recommending and the specific pieces they have owned previously, to help others understand their baseline. As with anything in life, people need to do their research and take recommendations as somebody else’s opinion and not necessarily gospel, whether the person recommending is a professional reviewer, a manufacturer, a dealer in a B&M store, or simply a poster on these forums. For example, a year or so ago I decided to try springs under my heavy speakers and I did a lot of research on the sizing of the springs and how to position, preload, and damp them. After some trial and error I found springs that work well under my main speakers and subs and I like the sound and function better than the spikes they replaced. However, I did not see a reason to jump on the Townshend bandwagon and do not perceive any reason why those should be better than what I am using with the exceptions that the Townshend products are suitable for a wider range of speaker/equipment weights and they have somewhat easier functionality, but not necessarily better performance, assuming the goal is about sonic improvement. In addition, the Townshend products cost a lot more than what I paid, even considering the cost of extra springs I purchased during my trial and error process. Regarding dealers and manufacturers, I enjoy having them around and usually learn from their posts. Almost all of them readily identify themselves from what I can tell. However, I find the recent Ted Denney threads interesting in that folks who don’t place high importance on cables, fuses, etc., or those who don’t hear significant differences, are called out as having systems with insufficient resolution, having unsuitable hearing capabilities, or being a "naysayer" whatever that means. It sort of seems like going to a ballgame where only the home team fans are allowed in the stands. |
@oldhvymec I was hoping to read “alligator shoe”, but I guess not. |
Oldhvymec “ I’ve caught audio2design a few times reinventing him/herself. There were a few that did it, trying to be a sneak, you’ll see a LOT of that around MCs post. They arrive like flies to $hit. “
Awwww Bless … as to the former adjective yup ,, Flies like a Butterfly Stings like a Bee , as to the latter adjective you are entirely correct ! |
