If you know that a user is a dealer and they fail to disclose and attacks other users because they make a point against their interest, do you expose the user?
I know of a gentleman here that continuously posts and goes after people and does not disclose who he is.
As far as Townshend podiums go, for me their seismic platform was a remarkable improvement for my turntable. I was lucky to be able to talk to Max Townshend (RIP) who took the time to understand my application and send me the right tension pods in the platform. Because of the extremely light nature of my turntable, a Rega P8 at only 10 pounds, that platform was by far the best and easiest solution for me. Also, the fact that it was sitting on a credenza on top of a suspended wood floor about a crawl space makes for quite a lot of vibration. His platform actually caused foot falls because of the frequency and he was honest and said I can live with the foot falls and tread lightly, go back to inferior sound, or have nirvana by putting his platform on top of a wall shelf. I did that and it sounds like a turntable several levels above mine. Will Miller Carbon provide the same level of service? I think so, but he may set higher expectations than the modest Max Townshend and is prone to exaggerations, which by the way, I think he beleives. He always says everything matters, but he doesn't say some things matter very little and for some people, the SQ improvement is not noticeable. I know he mentioned he was retiring, but did @millercarbon retire form Audiogon? If so, how will he promote Townshend? Maybe he will try to sign up dealers?
When it came to my speakers, because of their tall, thin nature, I did not feel comfortable putting them on pods, or Townshend's other speaker solution because of a perceived instability in my mind, plus they are pretty expensive. I found a less expensive solid multicomponent platform solution that works well with wood flooring and kept the height of my tweeter exactly the same as the spikes the manufacturer provided. Once again the owner of that company, Symposium Acoustics, Peter, took the time to understand my application and was very low key about how he thought his Segue Platform would help. He also cut them to the exact size to provide equal or even more stability than what came with the speakers. They definitely sounded better, really cleaner and clearer after using the Segues, although the improvement was nowhere near that from Townshend's with my turntable. BTW, Peter said his solution would not work for my turntable without putting counterweights on my table, which would not work for me.
If found out about both companies from posters on Audiogon, and most dealers don't talk about this stuff because the profit pales in comparison to selling you a new box, and it takes more time to understand a system.
Also, you hear a lot about acoustic treatments, and was once again treated honestly by GIK acoustics, who told me not to bother with "half measures" (nod to Breaking Bad fans) as the things I was considering would not do much if anything to absorb the sound from bouncing off the walls, celing, and floor. My wife would never allow her den to become a stereo demo room.
If you want a dealer to fully disclosure where does it start and stop? Are you holding dealers to a higher standard than audiophile posters? What about posters making claims and recommendations about a piece of equipment they have never had, used or heard. Do we make them disclose that information too? What about “ professional” reviews in publications do they disclose that the manufacture runs adds on their platform? This is the internet and you need to take EVERYTHING you read with a grain of salt. This is and should be a small part of your overall research process. To call someone out you better be ready for the boomerang to come back at ya!
@jetterhas been pretty spot on about the individual. There is not much he offers other than charged words and mainly just negativity. Not healthy and I stay away from it.
It’s pretty easy to spot the intelligent individuals because they know how to talk with others, know how to manage emotions and feelings toward a specific topic, discussion or even a certain individual(s). It is a skill for sure and not many have it, or at least at a high level, but the basic communication skill is sooo lost on many in all the different forums.
That being said, everyone has probably had a "moment" or two in an exchange with someone, but that isn’t what this is about. This is a full time condition with an agenda and or complete lack of communication skills and really doesn’t care.
@thyname i am just kidding around, trying to have a little fun online. if i had AP analyzer money i'd have 1) no ap analyzer and 2) a much nicer system
I totally agree with you audio Troy is an absolute idiot, I was posting about the monitor audio platinums and how much better they were then the paradigm overpriced bright top end speakers that they incidentally sell and he came on and slagging platinum saying that they're not world-class speakers well the reviews say otherwise so I really don't listen to what he has to say I just laugh at him!!!
Am I to understand from some previous posts here that MC is no longer a member of Audiogon? I’m only asking because I’ve been saving a bottle for this very day - the day when I can safely rejoin this community and not see “Einstein” commenting every 13 seconds.
@td_dayton: Gotcha! I most definitely fell for it. Believe or not, this is not the first time I have heard this. Actually I know several people who do just that: super expensive AP equipment and sorry ass audio gear to actually listen
we are making something fairly simple unnecessarily hard
the idea of this forum, attached to the main a-gon buy/sell/advertise site, is to have a community of primarily enthusiast/audiophile consumers, who, in addition to trading their gear, also be able to exchange ideas and experiences
of course, then, there are also manufacturers, dealers, and others within the high end hifi industry, who come here to access these consumers, to sell them things, and as other posters here have rightfully said, these additional people bring a lot of knowledge to the table, and can/should contribute their insights
so it seems simple, and reasonable, that when an industry person ’expresses their opinion’, they should also let folks know who they are, above and beyond being just an ordinary user/enthusiast sharing their personal experiences -- that they have an economic stake if others here ’act’ on their advice
so someone saying "your gear will sound better if you use a specialty fuse"... should then say "oh btw, i sell them".... or ... "vandersteens will be great in that room to play the classical music you listen to, and oh btw, i sell them" ... or even... "hey i think the nad m33 is a great integrated amp, so many useful features, sounds just great, and oh btw, i have mine listed in the for sale section...."
done right, it’s really not so hard... but i believe there are many folks here who will not, do not do this
but i believe there are many folks here who will not, do not do this
and it’s fine for us in the know - the emperor’s have no clothes: but an awful lot of people out there often aren’t aware that they are actually participating in an advertorial..
I find that being a Forum Member on a few Forums and being able to participate in social events arranged by forums, there are periodically opportunities made available to put a 'Face to a Name' as most introduction are carried out with the Forum Users Monica.
I have learnt that through face to face meetings, that the person in the flesh is quite different to the person behind the keyboard. A Social Encounter is quite different to a Forum Encounter and a individual with strong convictions when using written word, is quite encompassing when in a face to face dialogue and willing to consider the variances of views on certain subjects.
I have also met with the lesser demographic of the forum members, those who come across after getting a hold on the communications offered as a promoter of a goods or a service and most likely see members as a quarry and providers of opportunities to be extracted extract from.
It is quite an amusement to be exposed to how these types, who are quite exertive with their intentions when observed or met with face to face. It is shame that if there has been a previous encounter with such an individual, and there is a impression left as to why there was an encounter, especially if the contact was interpreted to be a bait laying exercise. The individual under suspicion will soon be held in contempt and will not achieve any success with their intended plans.
It also seems to be a common thread woven in the fabric, that such individuals are the ones that create the most discomforting information, that is generally interpreted as 'not to be relied on'.
New Forum Members with little experience of a overall demographic within a forum are the types prey the self serving types will go for, a behind the scenes email is a good way to disguise their intentions from the forum as a whole.
I know, I still have indelible memories of such approaches through email, where advisories on offer steer toward a certain product or service on offer.
It is not so important to name and shame, the disingenuous, with other non sincere intentions are quite capable of gaining a very silent disapproval, that is able to spread through a community like a wild fire.
@mapmanWhy should anyone assume a shill does not receive compensation?
This is the only sensible assumption on any site that features a discussion about the merits or otherwise of products or services.
I prefer the word presumption on a site that also has contributors in the trade. It is true unless specified otherwise.
Anything less is naive. I mean, look - "just buy it and try it, you can always return it". is pretty obvious, innit?
That disclosure requirements are not specifically addressed in the guidelines is probably quite deliberate, because that may promote dishonesty ("rules are made to be broken" cliche) or people would find loopholes (and a reason I didn’t mention this aspect in my earlier post near the start - there is no obligation to disclose, ethics is not about the word "should"- that is a moral judgement, something that is quite fluid.)
Ted is open about his company affiliations only when it suits, and of late has been carrying out a lot of what submariners refer to as ’silent running’
Evidence of his behaviour (including that which relates to the OP’s allegations) has recently been removed, as mentioned in the previous post.
True that. As a former dealer, my "hidden agenda" when I had my shop was to sell people the best possible gear they could afford (or slightly above their budget).
NOW, my "hidden agenda" is to push the most accurate stuff around. Funny, in both guises, I am suggesting the same stuff.
Accuracy in reproduction depends more on YOUR ROOM than any specific gear. Once you realize that, the rest is just a hobby. With so many brands out there, it is much more difficult today than it used to be. STILL, the best stuff remains the best stuff, but it does not fit every room, so you buy what sounds good in your room TO YOU that you can afford. with an eye to getting "better" stuff when you can, maybe.
Asking others on the Forum what THEY like may help you find a dealer who has that specific stuff, but you still make the final choices, right? The suggestions from me and others on here are just that--suggestions based on OUR experiences in OUR ROOMS. Like me recommending what I believe is the "best stuff," you have to see if it works in your room for you and your budget. Since the stuff I suggest is pretty expensive, it is not for everyone, but most manufacturers have less expensive stuff or you can buy used if new is not in your budget.
The goal is to love the music you like to listen to and forget the "stuff."
About “YOUR ROOM”…. Let’s walk this through: any person serious about good audio will take care of the “room”. Assuming good size & dimensions, and audio specific (not a general living room area where WAF comes in play, and rightly so), it’s relatively very cheap to treat the room with speaker positioning, as well as acoustic panels, like I did with GIK, absorbers and diffusers everywhere including ceiling, bass traps, etc. etc. Yes, it takes some time and effort to make it right, as well as some knowledge and understanding, using microphone and tools (I used REW and UMIK-1 which I still have), and some professional help if necessary (I did hire someone mostly for aesthetics and accuracy for the ceiling stuff). But it’s fun, and we learn a lot while doing it.
Every “gearophile” I personally know, has taken care of the “room”. It’s not that hard, relatively cheap, and people who can spend $3,000 on a power cord can easily afford to “treat the room”, and let’s face it, these are the same people who can actually afford to have a dedicated sizable audio room / house, not those who can barely afford to own an amp. Am I wrong?
So let’s say “YOUR ROOM” is taken care of. Now what? It ends there? You can put any kind of speakers on that PERFECT room? Amps? If the room is perfect, say you inherited daddy’s big house, then what? What percentage of your total audio endeavors are done?
Or from another angle, for most of us mortals, let’s say we can only have a system in a general purpose living room or family room, or bedroom, with a wife and kids in the house, no dedicated perfectly sized spare room, then what? Abort the pursuit because the room cannot possibly be perfect?
Oh… more often than not, from my experience, it’s the same people who cry wolf and shout loudly ROOM!!! and gear does not matter, who have crappie general purpose “rooms” with a small minority having some panels here and there thrown in haphazardly where wife allows with no rhyme or reason. Not always so, but the majority of these folks. Just ask them to show you their “room”.
more often than not, from my experience, it’s the same people who cry wolf and shout loudly ROOM!!! and gear does not matter, who have crappie general purpose “rooms” with a small minority having some panels here and there thrown in haphazardly where wife allows with no rhyme or reason. Not always so, but the majority of these folks.
You are not wrong, but your accurate summation is incomplete. They also tend to have poorly set up stereos comprised of mediocre gear while ignoring everything else that makes a great stereo sound great.
Continues from my above post as I can no longer edit…
What about a headphones setup where the “room” factor is eliminated? Does it matter at all what cans you own and prefer? Headphones amp, DAC, cabling? Do they matter?
-First there is room non dedicated audio room: living room...
-Second passive material treatment is not enough in a truly DEDICATED audio room which is not a living room...It takes experiments in active mechanical control with Helmholtz method..
-Third we must chose the gear BEFORE controlling the room, why? Because generally the size of the speakers and the dimension of the room must be commensurate and the type of the speakers must be adapted to the geometry of the room, and because the goal of the room control is too adapt the room to the large bandwidth response called "timbre" to the ears, and i did it mechanically...
My dedicated audio room is not pretty because i BOUGHT no pretty costly ready made devices i made them myself with junk materials at no cost from one dollar store or from my basement...
Acoustic preinciples dont mind esthethic and cost...A set of straws and discarded plumbers tubes etc nust obey acoustic principle not art...And i am not a crafty skilled person like many of you...I know how to study thats all because it was my job before retirement...
Appearence is not sound quality no more than a beautiful amplifier must be good because he is way more beautiful..That is prejudice...
-And fourth yes sorry, but a completely dedicated audio room is the only luxury in audio not the price of the gear...If not i will go on chasing my tail and changing the gear wiithout being able to made my acoustic experiments... Is it possible to do it in a living room, yes, but only if you know what to do and to some extent only...
-Finally judging people according to their brandeed name product and room esthetic is only that PREJUDICES... Listening is the only way to judge...My room is not pretty and i decided to not put any more photos for years now from my room which is impossible to describe because it ressemble a cavern where a nut operate...Some seller here make precisely disparaging inuendo about that this week...People are stupid when they judge on appearence this will not change, but some have their own agenda to do so and they will repeat your final post paragraph here because this suit their selling agenda not audio experience and experiments and partaking of knowledge...
A resume of my discoveries in acoustic experiments :
No speakers at any cost will beat by his upgrading power acoustic control,
Here are these 6 aspects of acoustic control parameters in a room i experimented with :
1 -Balance between absorbing surfaces,
2 -Reflecting one,
3 -Diffusive one....
This was "classical" passive material treatment of a room, now these 3 new other factors are related to my concept of the mechanical active control of a room ( what i called a mechanical equalizer):
4-control over reverberation time and timing of the wavefronts
5- control over the distribution of the pressure zones
6- fine layering and tuning of the laminar flow
These 3 last aspects could be controlled with Helmhotz mechanical method NOT by electronical equalization...or by some costly "tweak"...
Then the piano will not sound the same from the same pair of speakers in a non controlled room and in a controlled one...Not even close...
Dont upgrade good speakers with costly one BEFORE studying and experimenting with acoustic...
My acoustic devices and experiments were all homemade and cost me nothing...
I can then claim that great hi-Fi experience is possible at low cost contrary to what is claimed or supposed almost everywhere by almost everyone...
People dont know acoustic and never seriously try experimenting with it in a dedicated small room.
You are not wrong. For sure.
About “YOUR ROOM”…. Let’s walk this through: any person serious about good audio will take care of the “room”. Assuming good size & dimensions, and audio specific (not a general living room area where WAF comes in play, and rightly so), it’s relatively very cheap to treat the room with speaker positioning, as well as acoustic panels, like I did with GIK, absorbers and diffusers everywhere including ceiling, bass traps, etc. etc. Yes, it takes some time and effort to make it right, as well as some knowledge and understanding, using microphone and tools (I used REW and UMIK-1 which I still have), and some professional help if necessary (I did hire someone mostly for aesthetics and accuracy for the ceiling stuff). But it’s fun, and we learn a lot while doing it.
Every “gearophile” I personally know, has taken care of the “room”. It’s not that hard, relatively cheap, and people who can spend $3,000 on a power cord can easily afford to “treat the room”, and let’s face it, these are the same people who can actually afford to have a dedicated sizable audio room / house, not those who can barely afford to own an amp. Am I wrong?
So let’s say “YOUR ROOM” is taken care of. Now what? It ends there? You can put any kind of speakers on that PERFECT room? Amps? If the room is perfect, say you inherited daddy’s big house, then what? What percentage of your total audio endeavors are done?
Or from another angle, for most of us mortals, let’s say we can only have a system in a general purpose living room or family room, or bedroom, with a wife and kids in the house, no dedicated perfectly sized spare room, then what? Abort the pursuit because the room cannot possibly be perfect?
Oh… more often than not, from my experience, it’s the same people who cry wolf and shout loudly ROOM!!! and gear does not matter, who have crappie general purpose “rooms” with a small minority having some panels here and there thrown in haphazardly where wife allows with no rhyme or reason. Not always so, but the majority of these folks. Just ask them to show you their “room”.
Some people own a brain Denney...I speak with those...
Keep the others and sell them your miracle solutions...
You dont have any self respect because you NEVER give me an argument in ANY of your numerous threads now closed...
You give me what sellers with agenda give to any discussion : no discussion and inuendos...
I know others sellers here who discuss and inform us OBJECTIVELY...You are not one...
I will repeat: my dedicated audio room is my laboratory not a living room...It is way nuttier than it was on those photos years ago anyway... 😁😊But my S.Q is enough for me... And here i never brag about my system but about acoustic importance.... Thats all...
@ted_denney: did you ever read some of the material on the link you posted? You and @mahgisterhave a lot more in common than you might think. Take a read. Yes, the implementation is different, but the concepts and functionality may overlap with what your company designs and sell.
Why do you think he was not pleased with my arguments and attack my "room" ?
It costed me NOTHING to transform completely my S.Q
I sell that good news here for all audiophiles benefit who dont have money... he sell costly product that will do some part of what i did but differently and at a high cost compared to me no cost solutions..And if i judge by the way his electronical costly toy affect the sound not necessarily for the better compared to Helmholtz mechanical method...It is fair to say that i listen to this only on youtube but that dont give me the irge to buy that at all... Room Acoustic is a mechanical and material science FIRST, electronical only in a secondary way...
He is here to gather consumers and sell product not to partake knowledge and discussing ...
I am here to sell creativity and discussing ...
Only an idiot or a seller can mock my room ...I have humor i myself called my room nut room...But there is different laughs in life...I dont accept innuendo from seller...
He is the only one to act like that here, the other was another seller here i will not name 7 years ago...but this other seller change his reaction discussing with me and we became friends... I become friend this month with another acoustic seller here who give me even new idea.... Then this one seller bad attitude speak volume ...
@ted_denney : did you ever read some of the material on the link you posted? You and @mahgister have a lot more in common than you might think. Take a read. Yes, the implementation is different, but the concepts and functionality may overlap with what your company designs and sell.
I see nothing in common aside from the similarities between a 1967 Volkswagen bug, and a 2022 Ferrari F8 Tributo, both have four wheels and internal combustion.
The difference between the crowd of one or many and Mahgister is Mahgister understands that the shear velocity of any given material shape is the source for what we are hearing in our sound rooms. Some sell devices without knowing their most basic translation from source to sound. Tom
Consult wikipedia about Helmholtz resonators for example and out of the mathematical relation between the mechanical different part and ratio of them point me where they speak about shiny motor engines, and shiny body work ?
I created some H.G. with empty paper toilet rolls and straws for some listening fun experiments yes... 😁😊 Science is not marketing my friend...it is brain work...nevermind the materials save his acoustic properties and use...
And sound waves dont mind that your name is on the devices or not or if the device will please your wife... Acoustic dont discuss price tags, is it clear for you now?
Acoustic is a science not a way to make money...I never discuss myself the value of your product or disparage them like you did with inuendo for my room... Why? because my agenda is to discuss with everyone here and sell creativity and it cost nothing... You dont like that? Eat it...
I see nothing in common aside from the similarities between a 1967 Volkswagen bug, and a 2022 Ferrari F8 Tributo, both have four wheels and internal combustion.
Use a brain before making cheap car metaphor to disparage me...
Where have I disparaged you? I’d like to see it. Now if I said your system reminds me of something we might see in a film like The Silence Of The Lambs, or if I pointed out the fact that your days seem to be filled with posting on these boards nonstop while attacking others, often times in all capital letters, with a posting style that seems unhinged and angry, would that be disparaging you? Or am I simply making a factual observation?
I for one have never seen Mahgister be anything except extremely helpful, kind, and respectful in all his postings until today’s response to Ted Denney.
Why do you think i dont mind posting my virtual page photos?
But there is laugh from friends and laughs from others...
i never make innuendo about your product value like you make about my room suggesting to others that my knowledge is void because of these images..
Do you remember?
Isntead of dicussing my posts and correct me you make this inuendo, inacceptable for me...
And now another one : "or if I pointed out the fact that your days seem to be filled with posting on these boards nonstop while attacking others, often times in all capital letters, with a posting style that seems unhinged and angry, would that be disparaging you?"
I never attack people if they dont attack me i like discussing with ARGUMENTS...
My capital letters are there to underline a word...
I have more friends here than foes...because i dont attack people and if i hurt someone i immediately apologize..
And i am 70 years old and retired and have plenty of time for my audio system then i discuss here with no other AGENDA than discussing...And you, why do you take the time to create so much threads and make inuendo about my room in many posts? do you have plenty of time too to do so?
You never give me an argument only a disparaging INUENDO about my room ...
I accept laughs from friends not from sellers who refuse to discuss save for disparaging my room and who creates here many threads not so much to discuss but to fish customers it seems... It is your right to do so yes...
But dont make other inuendo about my room...stay silent about my post in your thread if you dont answer arguments...Acoustic is a science not a seller market personal possession...
or if I pointed out the fact that your days seem to be filled with posting on these boards nonstop while attacking others, often times in all capital letters, with a posting style that seems unhinged and angry, would that be disparaging you?
As I said previous with different words.some people sell stuff and they dont know how it works. Is that science or just luck. Mahgister and I are grasping straws but we know how and why they work so we put them to great use as we do with minerals and metals of various shapes suspended from a ceiling or placeed on a flat surface or attached to a wall. The compresive we hear is the result of the shear velocity in solids and their shapes.
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