However, I find the recent Ted Denney threads interesting
soon as the temperature on one ’Ted Talk’ becomes uncomfortable he starts another..
About users with hidden agendas
If you know that a user is a dealer and they fail to disclose and attacks other users because they make a point against their interest, do you expose the user?
I know of a gentleman here that continuously posts and goes after people and does not disclose who he is.
What are the ethics of this forum?
541 responses Add your response
I agree with much of the above about be wary of the hype. Some of these guys that are making comparisons with gear costing thousands of dollars but they have one speaker in a corner and the other in a hallway with no reflection point (like mine). They will go on about how a cable swap changed their life and now their whole music collection is complete again, etc. How do we find the line between being enthusiastic and sharing experiences responsibly for people looking to sort through the information? Some of these guys are just enthusiastic, maybe their system is spiritual to them, or maybe they like attention... Some do provide information to others that see them as an authority, so not discounting them either. I do believe we have a number of trained salesman (not in audio) that are just having fun. Believe me, I'm about free speech and would rather have people post fantasies than not be able to post, but reader beware, you have to separate the wheat from the chaff. As far as dealers posting here goes, there is an internet marketing phrase known as "being an authority in your field". Also 'being present in your market". Both of these methods build trust and are known to lead to sales. Isn't this what our experts and very interested dealer/owner participants are doing? These audio sites are the target market, or at least some fraction (I question if this is the actively employed portion when I look at post counts 🤣). Good for them for being creative about it and not just continually throwing their name and product as being better than the post above (trolling) but I'm sure all methods work.
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The topic of this thread is
Disparaging comments about Audio Troy are off base. Audio Troy has never hidden that he is a dealer, professional salesperson, and has a wide range of products for sale he likes to aggressively push. There are not many bricks and mortar stores left, relatively speaking, enjoy them while you can. In summary, not all of us are sensitive to his schtick, as if it’s unusual for a salesman to put down a competitor’s product over his own. Regarding MC, if I never read his name or initials again it will be too soon. Enough said. What a lot people here now do not realize, is that twenty years ago a significant purpose of Audiogon was to build a community that felt comfortable buying and selling to each other, and to call out persons or establishments that were not reputable, by name. In fact, there was a complaint process right here where a buying or selling member would write his/her complaint online and the opposing party would answer the complaint, and then all Audiogon members could give their opinions online, until a settlement was met. And this was all approved and monitored by the Audiogon mods. Audiogon history 101
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I'm impressed, sound tribal almost, 60s. Togas anyone. No ONE will iron out a difference for me, period. That is between me and the nitwit I have a beef with. As for MC, I miss him. He'll be back. I never met a person I didn't like, until AG. Then I had to consider I had only read the AG forums for 15 years, never participated. It's always what they do, not the person, that is what I was taught. No BAD people, just bad things.. BOY was I wrong. Live and learn! I thought about the stuff that went on by the few at the time. It was the wild wild west. With people reporting because they were reported. Funny to watch the kids play. 3 pages of back and fourth by 6 or so people. I had to talk about the chickens and the rabbit and the dog and that damn goat they made more sense. MC talked to me on a few occasion rather brash, I returned the favor. He was trying the waters with ME.. I'm a GOOD swimmer. That lasted for 30 days or so.. Then I almost died, I WAS CLOSE! Blood clot in my lung and in my heart and was have daily heart attacks for 10 weeks. I went from fixing a fence and bruising my thigh to three days later fighting for my life. I been shot 3 time, ALL felt better. Kidney stones felt better. That's sayin' something too. I needed a procedure that could fix me, I was to sick for it, I had lost 1/2 of a lung. Ya know when your a mechanic all your life and you can't fix a STUPID broken heart, it sucks...:-) I said goodbye to the wife, kissed the dog and rabbit fed the chickens a flipped off the goat as he ate the rest of my hat and drove myself to the hospital. I made it. |
I get you have a personal connection with MC. Somewhere along the line several persons stated he was narcissistic. I would have to say that that would be an upgrade compared to how I look at his problems. I wouldn't have given a sh*t except you couldn't sign onto A'gon without seeing his thousands of posts. I am one of the persons that he said complained about him to the Washington State Radiologist Board or whatever he was talking about. He is the only person who ever insulted Almarg. He would have kept doing it if so many people hadn't called him out on it, just his low life way. I am not a rat, never once have complained about him or anyone else in 20 years. You have lived a colorful life, and a lot of us have also. You like your country boy persona, but the truth is I do live in the country. Hunting, and drinking with the boys during the season, he wouldn't be invited to our camp. |
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I remember that. That whole thing was weird. As for hunting and drinking. I don’t drink, and I quit hunting men! Game never intrigued me. I’m a big ol softy when it comes to animals. Everyone (the animals) was a doorstep baby. Kids not so much, I give them back or pass them off to the neighbor lady.. :-) Almarg went to heaven, I didn’t know him, BUT I read a lot of his replies. He was patient, a Gentleman and truly missed. I don’t care for people to much, 2 hours a week with my grandson is plenty for me. I type more than I talk. I don't like big words. BUT I like big Bu..s I cannot lie.. :-) Regards |
There is nothing here to prevent hidden agendas so you can be sure they are there and not hard to detect over time. It is what it is. High end audio is pretty much one big expensive hidden agenda. As long as people are respectful and factual, and not trying to take advantage of others, no problem. Transparency is the key for longevity when interacting with others. |
@styleman @nonoise Since you asked for others' opinions: I've used Nobsound, IsoAcoustics, and Townshend all three. Each one was clearly better than the last in my system and to my ears. Whether the increased cost is worth it to you I can't say. The Townshend podiums were a reach $$ for me, but they made a striking improvement in my speakers (Cain&Cain Abbys). |
No experience personally but I suspect like most things you just have to be good at it and want to do it. I was a salesman early on....Lafayette Radio, TEch Hifi, Radio Shack. We were trained when someone walked in the store, your job was to find out what their problem was that brought them in and solve it for them. Worked well!! No shilling needed. Tweaks like wires were always needed and very high profit so we were trained to always make sure those were sold if people needed them. That was simple zip cord, etc. in those days. THings have gotten a bit out of hand there over time as is often the case when there are big profits to be made. |
more seriously, i do personally suspect that the problem of shilling and this type of thing is a little overstated in general - in so many forums i see 'subjectivists' and measurements freaks alike losing their composure, more or less constantly, because they see "hidden agendas" everywhere they look. in my view the overwhelming majority of people who frequent these types of forums are basically normal, reasonable people who share a fun hobby. that's not to say you don't have bad actors from time to time, but seems like they're relatively few and far between. just my .02 |
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One crosses over into “shill” territory for me when a product is consistently and unconditionally pitched to all on the sole totally subjective merit of “better sound”. That clearly indicates selling the product no matter what is all that matters. That my friend is “shilling”. Persistently pitching to anyone no matter what because it is assumed it will always “sound better”. Also if it turns out it doesn’t, most likely the shill will never place the blame on the product sold under false pretenses. Bad for sales! |
I had a hidden agenda but i sell nothing save creativity : Audiophile experience with the three embeddings controls of the working electrical mechanical and acoustical dimensions for the cost of peanuts... Audio is plagued by mass market conditioning to UPGRADE gear and ignorance of the three embeddings controlled or uncontrolled working dimensions of ANY audio system and the way to optimize ANY system... Ignorance of acoustic and promotion of costly "tweaks" with no systematic simple method to optimize audio system is a catastrophy that create a tail chase and great unsatifaction and frustration... My posts are for the "poor" audiophile...People with money will never use a straw to transform acoustically their room unless the straw cost was 1,000 bucks, anyway they will not even believe it is possible ... 😁😊 I have created a solution for "rich" audiophile: If someone want to buy one straw i pay them less than one cent at Wallmart but i will send you one for only 100 bucks, you will save 900 buck on their regular price... I must pay my research cost in acoustic after all.... 😁😊 Seriously i dont care about the gear product branded names...Electronical engineering is mature industry able to give us plenty of good product at all price... I care about electrical,mechanical and especially acoustical method to embed ANY system and optimize it so much that upgrading will appear almost meaningless with ANY gear and at any PRICE...
«The way we walk matter more than the road we take sometimes»-Anonymus Smith «I use the walls and the room pressure zones guided by my ears drums to improve my speakers drivers workings»-Anonymus Acoustician «Are you saying that the speakers branded name choice or cost matter less than the zone pressures distributions of the room?» Anonymus Audiophile «Yes, it is a not so much hidden agenda now » -Anonymus acoustician |
Mahgister, You and I now know that maybe as the only 2 listeners here we can overcome many room obstacles with simple devices self-constructed and placed by audible observation. The enhancement of laminar flow is to me a much greater benefit to the listener than the typical foam in the box which is more of a destructive force to the listening experience. Tom
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@oldhvymec I just want to make sure I did not give the wrong impression. I respect the heck out of your audio knowledge, which I certainly do not have, and love your posts. 10-4 buddy. |
jetter we're all good never an issue, you know me, I'm no wilting flower, I'll speak up.:-) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Different thing, same topic (I think). A shill is paid or receives compensation to say they like a product weather they personally like it or not. Name a single persons on AG that fits that. Just ONE will do. A salesperson CAN'T be a shill, and nobody meets the definition, so why the name callin'? Mr. Mirror to the rescue. I didn't know what a shill was. I do now. It has about the same impact as the word racist. ZERO!! Regards
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@mapman….thats exactly right. Claiming the product is the end all be all for everyone regardless of the situation. Turns out the Schiller in question has just listed his holy grail and moved on to greener pastures. Can’t say I didn’t see that coming.
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I've expressed my views about people who have degraded those of use who do not have a lot of money to invest on the systems that many of you have but still enjoy what we have to the best of our ability. However, every time i try to defend those of us with lower incomes, but still enjoy what we have, are either down graded or the post is removed. Please forgive us for not having the income to invest on systems that many of you have. However, we are just looking to you guys for advice for what we can do with our limited incomes.
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My audio system value is 500 bucks and it is me who smile about all rich audiophile bragging about their costly gear without even knowing how to embed them mechanically, electrically and acoustically... Then relax no one dared to mock my system here for the last 7 years.. If you think that it is only money who can give audiophile experience and not science and brain you are dead wrong... Come and welcome here...Nobody will mock your system save idiots... My deeperst respect to you....
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Boasting about gear branded name is most of the time a reflecting ignorance about the three other factors huge contribution to the S.Q. most of the time way more than a single piece of gear so good it is: mechanical and electrical and especially acoustical control... People sell their choices of favorite gear often by lack of confidence in their knowledge... |
Why should anyone assume a shill does not receive compensation? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It’s the only way you can be one. If you like the product or not, you shill the product for compensation. That is the actual definition of a SHILL. There is not 50 definitions. Just one! The act of being deceitful for payment. Fraud! A Shill Even a Barker is not a shill, a salesperson, a person that works for "Space Aliens invade White house" or "Barack Obama is Joe Biden’s LOVE CHILD" they are SHILLS. I don’t know maybe they do believe that stuff. :-) Like I said, show me one person that was compensated and doesn’t like the product. Does that make it easier to understand.. JUST ONE will do.. I’ve never heard of one on AG other than the newbies that everything new is "the best thing sense sliced bread". Then tell everyone of their new discovery. THEN they move a speaker and the world changes again. I’m a mechanic, I expect change when I did something, not thinking about doing something.. :-) I love Mcintosh, the only thing they EVER gave me was the BILL. I promote Mac, plain and simple. They aught to pay me come to think of it.. I’ll work on that. The only reason not to use Mcintosh is because you don’t have the funds, or you like being ashamed. One I understand, the other I tolerate.. :-) BTW the C2500 is out of the shop R&B was fast, reasonable, and courteous. Regards |
just inked my first deal with some serious players in the industry...audio precisión analyzers...maybe you've heard of them. anyway i will be subjecting all sorts of high quality equipment that i can't afford to a playlist of test tones i found on qobuz, to prove that you alls ears don't work and end these absurd debates once and for all. dm me if you want to send me your gear |
I want to send you some gear all right.. Absurd? Some people can't hear and swear everyone in the same way. Why do you think there are so many crappy mechanics. They can't hear or feel. Same way with the "let's measure" crowd. I'll listen, then measure. Trust and verify. The only thing that guy ever said that made any sense. The paraquat presidents. Poison their own citizens. NUTS!!! Regards |
@td_dayton , thanks for the offer, but I'll pass on it. 1) I'd have to 'do without'. NO. 2) Cheaper for me for you to come here. Asheville is 'charming' in it's own 'odd way', has good food, pleasant hotels, and lots of 'attractions' to divert ones' attention spans. You could and can do worse....;) 3) One can anal-lize until the mind reels and the ears ring, but in the end subjective seems to overrule measured specs a lot 'round here. @mahgister would likely be amused by your efforts; I certainly would with my omnis'.... "Where should I place the mics?" I dunno...anywhere, there, here....there is a sweet spot or three.... ;) What I like about audio in general is the 'enigmas', the 'futz with it until one is happy' aspect. But since the 'happy aspect' has a high degree of transience, all is subject to change.... ...whether 'tweak' or total reno.... ;) |
Why did you do that? Are you a manufacturer of audio gear?
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But you can afford Audio Precision top gear?? I don't understand
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@mitch2 that is right! +1 with Ted Denney. I do not know what he knows or does not, except that he was not able to discuss in a technical level about Ethernet, PCIe, SLIP, (other bus protocols) or electrical engineering with me. When I presented technical facts, he became personal and later on I found that he was the owner of some company. This forum needs the ignore user feature so bad, because I like to read and contribute with my experiences but some gentlemen here are so angry, bias and take threads into a negative place that takes away from the experience. English as my latest language.
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