My hunch is that a lot of young Americans don’t have the discretionary income that their parents or grandparents had. Education costs are high, housing costs are high, and once they get married and have children there are too many other things competing for their limited funds to pursue expensive audio equipment. They watch a lot of movies and play video games, and a sound bar with perhaps a linked subwoofer does them fine, Those that seek more often go the route of AV receivers instead of separates or integrates amps. They like the convenience of Bluetooth linking to their phone. If they want to hear loud music, they see if someone will watch their kids and they go to a club.
«40% Of Audiophiles Are Dying And No One Is Doing Anything About It!»
Interesting video of Jay's audio lab reflections about the audiophile world:
84 responses Add your response
I have two houses full of audio gear. What happens to it, I don't care. I've been giving some to my nephew as his Dad exposed him to audio. He has a pretty high end system so he's not interested in my Mid-Fi stuff. If it ends up going to the thrift store, that's OK with me, I've had a lifetime of enjoying what I have. |
@bolong - I've read them all, and 'Rant' is one of my very favorite books from Chuck. It was actually the first one I read... |
This seems quite similar subject matter to another post. I’ve copied this from there: Well, since most of this community stays in its silo, it is no wonder that you A) think highly of yourself and that therefore B) fret about your replacement value. I have listening sessions once a week, and more than half of my guests are in their late 20s to early 30s. The experience is a revelation for them, and many come back, some regularly. yes, one wants me to will my system and collection to him but I think that my niece is anxiously waiting for me to keel over. She is at the head of the line. She’s early 20s. theaudioatticvinylsundays.com |
A lot of what the artist is trying to convey comes through in his/her music video. Most of it is on youtube. Watching music videos on youtube with a big rig is quite rewarding, one of my rigs has a htpc and a screen in the room for the same purpose. The audio is compressed or what not on youtube, but, worthwhile anyways. My processor salvages it to some extent.
|
@mahgister ’my system cost peanuts’ My system cost almonds and cashews. l believe in your philosophy and it’s the way to go…… l have in my 50 years with this hobby mainly bought second hand gear. In the early years I was lucky to have been right behind other older Hi-Fi addicts who were constantly upgrading. Shure V15 mk3, SME 3009 improved arm, Garrard 401 record deck, Tandberg TCD330 cassette deck, Revox series 7 reel to reel, Cambridge Audio (Oppo) 752BD Universal Blu-ray/SACD player, Cambridge Audio P100 (1970s era) integrated amp, Rola Celestion Ditton 25 speakers, and these are just one example from each major component. l have only drawn the line at cartridges and have nearly always bought new except for the Goldring G900IGC MM. Goldring ceased production of this cart in the 80s and l have yet to appreciate a better sounding MM cart. I managed to buy 2 original IGC Van Den Hul Gyger 1 profile styli to keep the cartridge going on my second deck. So l totally believe in your logic of buying for ‘peanuts’……second hand can be the new ‘Go West young man’…..it’s the new affordable frontier. |
Time, technology and trend has undoubtedly played it's part, but to a large extent, we audiophiles and the outrageously expensive audiophile market place has played a big part in the demise of audiophilia, I have an adult son and grandson and a teenage granddaughter, who will have 0 interest in, nor see the sense in, my thousands of $$ worth of, wall too wall, audio gear when I am gone. Jim
|
Of all the people I know, work family and friends I'm the only one into hifi and collecting physical media. I have a few theories why more youths haven't taken on this Hobbie. 1) it's wildly overpriced 2) whenever people talk about quality recordings its always some out dated music pre 80s (which I find many modern albums today have excellent pressing/recordings) 3) the majority of people actively partaking in hifi are older men 4) understanding a main point of hifi is to get as close to real music as possible yet most youth of today do not play and instrument so they can't appreciate the chase of accurately reproducing music 5) streamers are not engaging, only interests I see from younger generations is in turntables so as the market pushes more streamers and even solid state equipment we risk losing them to their phones and a single Bluetooth speaker. Anyways that's what I see happening. Unless the hobby turns its attention to invite the youth this will remain a very niche group and many companies will go under from lack of sales in tbe near future. |
(...pardon, spouse is blasting KCRW.....asked to drill for this...) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQG5zN8QOAs If we must go...which is pretty much the name of the game.... Go Out Loud or don't go at all. Good luck with the latter... ;)
|
@smodking1 - My thoughts are that manufacturers of products that appeal to a tiny niche, which is what audiophile gear is in the grand scheme of things, would be wasting incredible amounts of money advertising in high-profile, general purpose magazines like People or Sports Illustrated, and ads in those publications dwarf the price of ads in niche high-fi publications. |
My theory is that guys like gear. Period. Maybe in this country “Audiophiles” are shrinking but not in Japan, Europe and other spots on mother earth. I got the bug early on. My Dad had (fifty plus years back) big Tanny's, Mac 275/Mac Pre, a tuner and a nice TT. When he moved out my Mom gave it away but not to me. I have been trying to get "back there" ever since. Point is besides limited TV most in this age band had music/hifi so naturally many here are aging out audiophiles. Who would have dreamed of an iPhone? I plan to go out with the last notes of "Blue Rondo à la Turk" by Dave Brubeck Quartet At Carnegie Hall. |
Here is my comment to Jay...
|
In my younger days I felt the need to have others share in my audiophile enthusiasm and/or share in their enthusiasm, much more social undertaking in those days. Over all those years only a single short lived conversion, and this individual no longer even bothers to have his system setup, all sitting in storage. Generally, the non audiophile comments as to how clear everything sounds, end of story. Sharing with other enthusiasts was mainly for learning experience, I purposely sought out those more knowledgeable and experienced than I.
On to today, I savor my time alone with a system that provides the sound quality I always dreamed of, no need for divided attention or diversion. Illusion of performers in room such that virtually no need to manufacturer the illusion. Having people over or going to concerts has become a detriment in that I get far too easily distracted by their mere presence. Wonderful music performed by talented humans played over a high performance system in one's home is an end game activity, this one of those peak experiences, very unique and irreplaceable for me. Proselytizing to the unwashed is work for the missionaries, heaven not on line for the disbelievers here. |
Lots of valid points, here. I guess it depends which generation you’re assessing. The millenials I know are most definitely not more introverted! Quite the opposite- they prefer to do most things in groups. It’s simplistic to to expect people to "just turn off the distraction" when they are getting a dopamine spike from it. And if you’ve grown up with glowing screens since birth, you don’t know anything else. You’ve been trained to wholly depend upon external stimulation. I grew up with a stay-at-home mom, as did most of the kids I knew. We spent much of our time playing outside. Today, most parents work and neighborhoods are empty because kids are at day care or after school clubs, engaged in organized activities. When do kids just spontaneously play and engage/develop their imaginations? When I was a kid I was very focused on the natural world around me and derived a sense of peace and safety from it. I was repeatefly drawn to focus on its beauty and harmonizing effect. How many kids are given the opportunity to develop a capacity for being still and enjoying it? Instead, it’s constant stimulation-- constantly being directed into structured "doing". Enjoyment of the arts requires a willingness to slow down, step away from the mental whirlwind and allow one’s self to be acted upon by whichever qualities are associated with the art form in question. Of course, if one has parents who value the arts and nurture this this capacity, one is very fortunate. I could’ve simply said it appears that kids today are not developing the capacities necessary for sitting down and focusing for an extended period on any art form. Go back further into our history and you will find that playing music in the home was a prominent form of recreation for families. It's a shame this has been abandoned.
|
| Post removed |
@smodking1 - Yesterday, there was a News story that announced " Lou Malnati's will be closing their four locations in Indianapolis.". Lou Malnati's is a famous pizza restaurant that started in Chicago. I've been living in Indy for over eight years and had no idea Lou Malnati's is here. Had I known they were here, would surely have gone. To your point, it pays to advertise. |
Well, I agree that the stereotypical act of sitting still and listening to music while doing nothing else, and not even talking much without being perceived as rude, that can be boring for most folks. It’s not boring for me as long as the music is good or the gear is blowing my mind. But I agree with Jay in the video about the lack of visual stimulation. I have tried to overcome that - many times at my place we watch high quality concert videos on the big screen, DJing through tracks just like an audio session. I run the audio through my Oppo BDP-105 so the sound is quite good. I also mix in a few comedy bits and such. I also have a lot of bouncing meters, audio sensitive lighting, album cover displays, artist photos, etc., being beamed into the listening area. Some find it distracting but it does scratch the visual itch. Also use a bit of projection at times. In addition to videos, I can switch to 5.1 format and I have about 600 multichannel (quad to DTS or DVDA/SACD/BD) music titles and that adds some spice. People dig the Steven Wilson remixes of the prog stuff. I always insist that a guest choose a substantial portion of the music. We always have it now that there are streaming services. Them hearing their music on my system is what really shows them the difference. We also talk about the music a bit while listening. Yeah, I know. But this is more of an experience people can relate to. If you want other people to be interested, you have to prepare something for them, not just expect them to step into your little niche. |
@smodking1 +1 Bose is a marketing firm that makes electronics, and they have done a stellar job of making themselves a household name. They also make a competent, while mid-fi product (I have one of their bluetooth speakers in my golf bag and it has worked flawlessly for over five years, unlike my iron shots). I remember seeing a Sonos superbowl commercial years ago and I turned to my wife and said "these guys are going to be huge". Never saw a commercial for an audio manufacturer before nor since, but Sonos is not only a household name now, it has become genericized, like Kleenex. |
When I say Rolls Royce, Rolex, Jaguar, Bose most if not all people will recognize these brands. If I say Patek Philippe, Cirrus, Spectral not many will know these brands. The point is advertising. Let’s be male centric for a moment. Has anyone ever seen an advertisement for Krell, Bryston, Kef, VPI, Transparent, MBL, Focal, insert your favorite manufacturer in Sports Illustrated, GQ, Esquire, Muscle & Fitness, insert your favorite men’s magazine. Let’s move into generic, away from men’s magazines: has anyone ever seen an advertisement for any high end audio gear in: 1. People: 93.9 million 2. Allrecipes: 62 million 3. AARP The Magazine: 55.4 million 4. Sports Illustrated: 43.4 million 5. Good Housekeeping: 40.4 million These magazines are 5 of the top sellers. The numbers following the magazine are print and digital readerships. Until the general public is made aware of our unique and niche hobby, the chances are we will continue to decline. Bose, a household name advertised in many places. I’ve seen their ads in airline magazines aboard US carriers for Bose, but never for Grado. Nor, never have I seen an advertisement for Magico, Wilson Audio, Air Tight, Weiss, Canton etc. in any magazine other than audio magazines. To raise interest in this or any hobby, the general public needs to be made aware of its existence. When something in my house needs service that I am unable to do, the person that comes over is blown away by my systems. Common comments are “I’ve never heard music so clear” and my favorite, “I didn’t know there was equipment like this”. What are your thoughts? |
My kids (22 and 24) both have systems that I put together for them, and they both use them regularly. My son spins vinyl more often than my daughter, but every time I visit either they have music playing pretty much the whole time. Neither one is into sports (viewing) of any kind. My daughter plays piano and my son plays the guitar and bass. None of their friends have any kind of audio gear to speak of, other than apple earbuds, with one exception. I remember coming home from work about ten years ago and my son was holding court with three of his friends, listening to Death Grips on my system. They were playing at a volume level about 60-65db. I walked over to the preamp and turned it up to room-shaking levels. The grins on their faces made me so happy I still get choked up about it. Two weeks later one of the friends was at the house and let me know he bought a pair of speakers at a garage sale (A pair of big old JBL something or others) and was using his dad's old receiver to power them. He was saving up at the time to get a turntable and we talked for a while about how to acquire records without spending all of his hard earned haying money (we live in farm country). But oy vey the constant D v A argument. I've said it before, black licorice is the best candy, and ketchup on hotdogs is delicious. If you like something, just enjoy it, there's no reason to try to convince someone else that your favorite HAS TO BE their favorite, or even something they like, just as there's no reason to denigrate someone else's preference. |
When stereo was first released, the naysayers claimed people would not spend nearly double what a mono system cost, just for better sound. Now many audiophiles are locked into 2-channel sound when the rest of the affluent world has multi-channel home theatre. Almost all new homes in Australia have at least one home theatre room. It is much more cost effective to merge your high-end audio into a home theatre set-up than to have two systems. The really successful hifi dealers near me make most of their money from selling and installing high-end home theatre systems, mainly to younger folk. I am not suggesting bringing the quality of your 2-channel system down to home theatre 'norms', but getting audiophile quality front left and front right speakers and two channel amplification integrated into home theatre - preferably with no centre channel! Works for me |
@rbstehno With respect, I’ve no interest in digital that my Sony DVD player and ad-blocked YouTube can’t handle. My analog set up is magic. |
NoRomance - I got rid of my analog stuff years ago. I had the hanss t60/vpi 3D arm/soundstring cartridge/mcintosh c49 and the Otari mx5050. When my digital setup sounded better, I sold all of this plus 500 vinyl albums. |
You know, there's a certain truth to the idea that audiophiles are, shall we say, "seasoned." It's not that we're born with a penchant for high-fidelity; it's that we have to survive long enough to afford it! In my 30s, between diapers and college funds, "reference level" meant a decent pair of headphones that maybe wouldn't crackle. Now, with the offspring successfully launched into the world, I can finally indulge in the sweet, sweet sound of financial freedom—and a really, really good stereo. Honestly, the best part of being an empty-nester is being able to crank up the volume without someone yelling, "Turn that racket down!" If, by some delightful twist of fate, I shuffle off this mortal coil while nestled in my favorite chair, bathed in the warm glow of vacuum tubes and the glorious sounds of a perfectly pressed LP, please, just let the music play on. Give me a few extra tracks before you call the paramedics. It'll be a symphonic send-off.
|
@deep_333 I was just kidding. Anyhow, I'm so old, most of my collection is analog. Before it got sampled like a teleporter.
|
I grew up with AM radio listening to pop hits, and jazz. I was never bored. Many in my generation played instruments, studied music in school, marched in parades while playing our instruments. Personally, I played in the school band. Brought my trumpet home each day and practiced it in the garage. I excelled at sports, and played every one of them Growing up there were always baseball games to play in, or we’d go to the school to play on the basketball court. We were physically active, and fit as a result Kids today experience technology overload. They’re not interested in learning to play an instrument. They’d rather play a video game. I think PONG came out in 1972, and you had to visit an arcade simply to drop in a quarter to play it for 5 minutes. Heck, how many before us didn’t even have television?! And they turned out just fine. And they weren’t bored. Easy fix. Turn off the distractions. And discover a whole new world. Take an hour hike. Lift some weights. Ride a bike. There’s so many alternative activities to do it’s ridiculous. Or, remain a slave to your iPhone. It’s all a choice. |
There's simply no point in getting all worked up over this stuff as it relates to others. It's hard to say how things will develop for the younger generations as on the whole they are inundated with the digital onslaught that began with the personal computer. When "we" were that age what did we have to occupy ourselves? That's how we got into music, that's what we had. No video games, no streaming, no widescreen tv....that's a lot of distraction. They are also not really into quality music, as my bass-playing son mentioned to me. He said the interest in playing a real musical instrument is waning fast to be replaced by electronic stuff. It's just easier. Also, note the difference in the music of decades past as compared to now. Not to say there isn't good music out there, but finding it is kind of like finding good audio. The culture and the inventiveness is just so different now. One never knows, though. I bought a grand piano when I was 30 that none of my four sons touched. Suddenly my 45 year old son began teaching himself on a Yamaha keyboard, and is sending back to his mom to get the piano shipped to him on the Big Island. His "stereo", however is still just a wireless speaker that mainly plays classical. For me, I'm just going to enjoy my fancy new system and let the chips fall. |
I have a 29 year old son who is to busy working, gaming or going out with his girlfriend to care about my older Krell Gear so I sold it all off went with the newer Illusion pre and 300xd amp with silver cables This he understands how to use for 2 channel while watching movies on the 80" but has no intrest in gear. This is the younger generation they see no need for hi-end gear. Even though he has peerfect pitch and can play the piano and has worked with me in Chicago doing Pyro for a lot o fhis favorite bands. He just is tobusywith his life to car. |
The simple fact is you can get better sound for your money now than when I bought my first system in 1977. The gap b/t entry level and high end is narrower than ever. Streaming/digital is the difference. Those who would argue that haven't listened to a Qobuz through a $200 WIIM over $300 Elac speakers driven by a $100 Fosi amp. I think younger people would rather travel, hike, fine done etc. It takes money to accumulate all the "look at me living a good life" photos posted on social media.
|
I'm 58 and I cannot think of any of my younger friends or acquaintances that have or want anything more than a home theater receiver and a few speakers. Most are buying "bluetooth speakers" and don't even want to know that their audio is crap. None of them sit and listen to music for the sake of sitting and listening and enjoying. Music is a background thing while they are doing whatever the hell they do for fun. It's sure not obsessing over having the big stereo amplifier to the better pre-amp. It's rare that anyone walking past my audio gear even gives it a second look or asks anything other than " I bet that is loud." It's true, the audiophile of the past is dying off. |
I’ve noticed this weird correlation between listening to lps and death. Maybe the covariance between listening to lps and age holds a clue. But seriously, the summer before my sophomore year in college, I used a significant chunk of my summer earnings to purchase new speakers for my system - Polk 10s for $600. Using my handy-dandy cpi calculator, that’s $2600 in today’s dollars, which would purchase some pretty kick-ass speakers for a college student today. So I don’t think it’s about debt levels, cost of systems today, etc. It’s just about what younger people value, and what they don’t. When I was younger, the one thing a freshman in college needed before they went to college was a stereo. For my children - the youngest of whom is now 30(!) - we had to make sure they had a good laptop (cuz they already had their phone). And of course we don’t blink twice about spending $1000 on an iphone and $2000 for a laptop. I use a new phone and computer for anywhere from 3-5 years (or more); my kids? More like 1-3 years. So it’s really just about what technology the younger generation values and want to spend their disposable income on (and of course how they listen to music). So the obvious reason for the shrinking audiophile population is that being an audiophile was a natural progression from the way everyone listened to music 50 years ago. Cheap console systems had built in turntables and, in many cases, cassette decks. If you wanted better sound, the path forward was obvious. For our children, the path forward from how they listen to music is more likely improved earbuds or headphones. It’s just not a straight line. So I guess Ive just convinced myself that the audiophile market is a bubble that is almost guaranteed to bust. I’m shorting Harman shares, lol! |
so, HAD top bring these quotes out: In response to this general discussion " Time is the same in a relative way but you're older, Shorter of breath and one day closer to death" (Pink Floyd) This quote I remember hearing when I was in Jr High (same as middle school for you southerners). This was also the time when I spent my time mixing tapes combining Rush guitar solos into new versions with my JVC tapedeck and my parents Dual (united audio) turntable. I was focused on music and was very hungry for equipment that allowed me to immerse myself in it. Today's generation is more introverted, the play with music, but on different platforms - garage band, other computer programs. They have more options out there than we did and mostly listen to their music on headphones, so the equipment lust is not there. it's up to us, we need to follow the verse: "Teach your children well Hopefully some of these kids will get it and not turn it back on you like the song. I bought my son some B&W headphones, he appreciated it but informed me that I shouldn't waste money because he "can't hear the difference" We're losing... |
The upside to this decline in hi-fi owners (as dark as it sounds) is that there’s opportunity for the 55 and under crowd to pick up some sweet deals from the widows trying to unload all that "unsightly gear my husband left behind and I need to clear it out to remodel the room for my crafting studio. Everything must go!" posts on FB Marketplace. I think about the decline of woodworking as a hobby in the States and how, if you keep an eye out for it, one can pick up some nice, barely-used quality hand planes, chisels, and the occasional vintage Delta cabinet table saws because neither the kids nor the wives of those woodworking hobbyists are remotely interested in keeping all those tools from the woodshop. |
