12 wire compared to Nordost Blue Heaven Speaker Cable?

It would be important to know your components. What will sound better is partially a dependent on if your system will sound better by hiding or revealing attributes and whether tipping the tonal balance or keeping it neutral sounds better.

But knowing almost nothing about your system or tastes in sonic characteristics, my guess is Nordost.

Tell us what happens after your speakers are fully broken in.

@ghdprentice

+1…but with a big qualifier;

(A) it’s trending IMO as a poor $$ investment proportionally to invest in the NORDOST option cuz it may be a large disproportional excess outlay in this system.“ Price is what you pay, Value is what you get, “ Warren Buffett

(B) Without prejudice to (A) above, the hoped for significant audio performance improvement from upgrading to the NORDOST cables in your system is likely nominal at best .

Bsckground Issues IMO:

- it sounds like the current CU-12 “ heavy gauge” cable is not up to a premium OCC grade cable (Y/N?) But it is budget friendly as its primary choice driver, correct?

-Automatically selecting audio cable “heavy gauge” options in isolation over a thinner gauge is meaningless as a key determinant in audio performance proposed improvements .

- a quick scan on the web kicks out EBay ads for the speakers at $350, and ads for the receiver at under $300. (Y/N?) If so…then the prevailing rule of thumb philosophy of an investment in audio cables of say, 10% ( max 20%) of the system, is proportionally modest too ….. Ergo, this excludes the NORDOST BLUE HEAVAN cables with their pricepoint alone likely exceeding the FMV of the rig combined . If so, then Simply put, IMO it’s overkill to your wallet , and an audio performance uptick likely won’t be there to the degree you hoped for.

MY TAKE: Choose wisely.

An A-B bakeoff to compare and validate required, if you are still committed cheerfully to fork out the not-insignificant added cash for NORDOST. The degree of their audio improvements - if any - in YOUR SYSTEM (a fine but important distinction) - might actually be enough for you.  But only you can weigh and decide ….. Carry on,

Bizarre. Did you actually spend over $1000 on speaker cables with a $60 amp receiver and $350 speakers? @akg_ca gave you the lowdown above.

I was thinking the same thing as you @noromance 

The system is clearly not revealing enough to even consider such an expenditure. Maybe monster cable speaker wire available at Walmart. No joke.

I can't tell if the original post is a well played and thought out trolling adventure...or if @ristrettox6 actually spent $700 on speaker cables for gear that can be found for less than $250.

If a sly rib-tickler about the hilarious prices people spend on cables...Touché!

If absolutely straight-faced serious...I'd suggest making a doctor's appointment.

+1 @allenf1963 

The only way to know will be to invest in better fuses…those are holding you back…

I clicked on his profile. The OP is a brand new AGON member who only joined up nine days ago; and this is his 2nd post.,

Assuming that it was a legit post, then we’ve collectively laid it out for him that his approach is not a happy ending. Maybe, we jurors in the AGON Court of Public Opinion, collectively can cut him a bit of slack for an honest but very poor choice on the newbie learning curve .

..just sayin’,…

TO THE OP:

(a) There is a lot of experience and knowledge chiming in here.

(B) TAKEAWAY:
(1) The $$$$ NORDOST cables are not a silver bullet fix for you in your current system

(2) If you still wanna keep them, then we strongly recommend that you first consider upgrading your system (…electronics AND speakers…) as budgets permit.

(3) So …. Read, Learn and then choose wisely,, sir.

Could be an honest question posted by a new to Audiogon, slightly inexperienced, music lover.

It's just like putting the carriage before the horse, it won't go anywhere.

@ristrettox6 

Welcome to the forum.

After you unpack the Blue Heavens and connect them, I would either a) put on some Depends@, or b) have a change of underwear close by.  You should experience something(s) quite different in your system -- in a good way.

There's quite a bit of "noise" on this forum about whether or not a system has to be of a certain caliber to hear differences in cables (or other upgrades).  Just a point here that a respected cable manufacturer (highly supported by this group) literally used a jam box with detachable speakers to demonstrate premium speaker cables with consistent and compelling results.  So, your "modest" system WILL reveal differences in cable/upgrades.

That being said, it is possible to be a little top heavy (or bottom heavy) when assigning cost to various components and putting too many eggs in a particular basket.  Interconnects, power cords, AC noise/suppression, room acoustics and a LOT of other factors come into play. Trying some, or all, of the above is what makes being an "audiophile" fun.

I just hope you're enjoying your hobby, and money spent gives you the sonic improvements (and grin from ear to ear) you are looking for.  

Enjoy.

As a long time slave in the mines of mid-fi, let me help OP with this. The Denon DRA-697CI is a very good mid-fi receiver. When it was current it sold for around $800.00 iirc, so it is not an entry level item, and has a fairly unusual feature set implied by the CI designation. Your Polk RTI-8Ts are solid, well made upper mid-fi speakers, with many owners singing their praises online. 12 gauge tough pitch stranded copper zipcord speaker wire is what you have.  Nordost BH is not the first rung of the ladder up from there. If you have been given it to try, by all means do so, and form your own opinion!  If you have to purchase it at retail, even in Nordost’s line there are more sensible options, like Super Flatline.  But I would suggest getting Mogami or Canare wires from WBC as more suitable to your circumstances. 

I think you would have better off upgrading the power cord to the Nordost Blue Heaven or Red Dawn. I did this in the past and it blew my mind. I would definitely buy used which will be easy because Nordost just upgraded their Leif line. The one cavity to this is the New Nordost blue Heaven power cable is the same guage as the Old Red Dawn power cable. If you can find an old 2 meter Red Dawn power cable at 40% + off retail  you will be set. The power cable made a bigger difference in sound on Home theater than the speaker cable did. Probably because it has so much DSP. You give it a good RFI/ EMI filter power cord like Nordost you won’t believe your ears. I say return the speaker cable. Guage is more important. 

OP my guest is you will get a better sound with Nordost blue heaven, this are amazing cable for the price.Just let the Nordost acclimate for six days, and burn in if its brand new.By experiment you will learn and constant listening.Play your familiar cd or music. Keep us update what you think. Just be patience.

Greetings all! Sounds like I unintentionally stirred up a bee hive! I can feel the seething resentment and condescension from most of you. I have no idea why you are so filled with venom!

So, a statement about this listener:
I began my music path very young trying to build speaker cabinets in grade school. This was fun but produced bad quality. In college, a friend had some impressive audio equipment; I remember a top of the line Nak deck and a Lyn Sondec table. Very impressive! For fun we used to go to Paul Heath Audio in Chicago to bring in imported vinyl which they would play for us when customers left. I think the system was a tube Ampzilla played on a Magnapan variant which looked like room dividers. Hawkwind "hurry on sundown" was dynamic. Cat Stevens vinyl sounded "live." Later I went to a Fulton demonstration and heard what real base from a pipe organ sounded like on 30" drivers with electrostatic tweeters- wow!

So here I am trying to build a dirt cheap system this year. I spent $80 on the 697, $140 on the 8-t's, $50 on my DP-47F w/ Ortofon 10 cartridge. The Blue Heaven cables were $29 here= https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804265444804.html?src=google&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

I also own some gear from my youth - a SA-8500 and a pair of 355 Barons, along with many other speakers. Some of you obviously are proud of your glorious investments; my modest system is being built to meet my budget as this is not my only pursuit. My 8' stainless Espresso counter also requires $$ along with roasting gear.

To those who support my adventure, blessings to you for your kind words!
To those who offered their snarky elitist derision, thanks anyway.

PS: I have attended 100's of live performances which would melt down most of the elitists here. Who? Ive seen John McLaughlin 7 times - both electric and acoustic, Oregon with Ralph Towner at Amazing Grace and the ASU hatbox. How about
Frank Zappa, Weather Report, John Lee Hooker, Muddy Waters, Michael Walden, Billy Cobham, Ron Carter, The Selector, Rory Galagher, Moody Blues, Talking Heads, Ted Nugent, BOC, Jean Luc Ponty (7 times), and so many others!

I am simply here to learn -period. If some of you want to insult me, go ahead and enjoy your pride. Thank you to the rest!

Blessings!

ristrettox6

Sounds like I unintentionally stirred up a bee hive! I can feel the seething resentment and condescension from most of you. I have no idea why you are so filled with venom! ... To those who offered their snarky elitist derision, thanks anyway ... If some of you want to insult me, go ahead and enjoy your pride.

Such drama!

I am simply here to learn -period.

It looks like you're here for the drama.

OP, no shame in asking a question. I've done a lot of work on my system in the past few years, and here's my opinion. You might find it aligns with some of the things said above, but not with all.

My number one takeaway is that the room is by far the largest factor and best place to put money. John Darko does a nice job talking about his early experiences with acoustics and what he learned. Listen here.

Next, the key to improving sound is to seek out the bottlenecks first. Including the room. Only after those are all taken care of should things like expensive cables, and tweaks come into play. Those are garnishes -- they make a difference, but if the meat (room, speakers, amps, room, DAC, etc.) is mediocre, they cannot help anything.

As for those who say that your new expensive cables will make your (relatively) lower-end system sound better? Well, maybe. But what will be invisible will be the opportunity cost of spending on cables rather than on other bottlenecks. 

If I was in your situation, I'd take a breath, send the cables back, get the refund, and research a better way to spend the money. I'm not trying to be unfriendly or snarky or mean. I'm telling you the truth out of respect for the hobby you're undertaking, ostensibly in earnest.

@ristrettox6

The Blue Heaven cables were $29 here= https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804265444804.html?src=google&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

Yeah, those are not Nordost Blue Heaven cables. But hey, let us know if they sound better than your "12 gauge" cables.

knockoff thread

The cables were only $30. May I please keep them?

I looked up that model. They’re $1100, or thereabouts. See this.

OP, is this some kind of runaround or did you get a counterfeit item?

I've already mentioned the potential bottlenecks, so reread my reply. Over and out.

>I have attended 100’s of live performances which would melt down most of the elitists here. Who? Ive seen John McLaughlin 7 times - both electric and acoustic, Oregon with Ralph Towner at Amazing Grace and the ASU hatbox. How about
Frank Zappa, Weather Report, John Lee Hooker, Muddy Waters, Michael Walden, Billy Cobham, Ron Carter, The Selector, Rory Galagher, Moody Blues, Talking Heads, Ted Nugent, BOC, Jean Luc Ponty (7 times), and so many others!

Wow, now I am impressed. Excellent taste in live music. Back in the day, I saw the original Mahavishnu Orchestra (the quintet) over a dozen times and even today, I look back at those shows as some of the high points of my life.

As others have said, ignore the mockers and trollers here -- Audiogon, like most online forums, has its shares of self-important, condescending Wikipedia experts who don't know when to shut up. It’s not a good look, but there’s not much you can do about that. Don't let them make you feel bad.  The rest of us share your pain.

Re: your original question, I think you may have a good sense of where to go by now. It may make more sense to upgrade the rest of your components before spending that type of money on cables. I’ve experienced jaw-dropping sonic improvements from cable upgrades, but other times -- especially before I started getting into five-figure hardware -- little if any effect.

Heh, reminds me of when I was younger and I, entranced by the audiophile lore of the day, connected my hobbyist Quad ESL- 57s to one of those old Quad current-dumpers with 12-gauge cable. This upgrade from Zip cord (this was the early 70s, so don’t shoot me) changed the frequency response of the Quads so dramatically that I had to rig up a low-pass filter to make them listenable. Then, when cables became a thing, I upgraded to the first Monster products -- reputedly one of the best cables on the market at the time. And that changed the sound dramatically again. But I never got rid of that nasty high end -- the better the cable the worse it got -- until I replaced my solid-state Quad amp with rebuilt 1950s Quad Class A monoblocks. Configuring those beautiful speakers the way Peter Walker had intended & pulling out all my well-intentioned modifications revealed the sound that J. Gordon had called "pants-wetting."  My first audiophile schooling!

So the point is, even with "lowly" Polks and Denons (really, not bad choices in their respective price ranges), cables can make a difference. But it’s just a toss of the dice. Maybe look for a dealer with a good return policy (I can recommend my own favorites offline if you want) and try before you buy.

Boy, this conversation reminds me about how much things have changed over the last half-century. My last pair of speaker cables cost $4000 and my phono cables almost as much. But I think I enjoyed my system more, back when my hands were steady enough to hold a soldering iron, when I was rebuilding vintage electrostatics and tube-rolling 1960s gear.

Welcome to Audiogon!

@cundare2 

Re: your original question, I think you may have a good sense of where to go by now. It may make more sense to upgrade the rest of your components before spending that type of money on cables.

Since he actually spent only $30, so I think he's got some $$ to spare for the rest of his components.

@ristrettox6 This makes more sense now that we know you are referring to Chinese knock-offs of the original $1100 Nordost cables. See how that would throw things? Anyhow, compare them and let us know how it all sounds. You had me at Hurry on Sundown!

@ristrettox6 

There's no shame in buying cables from aliexpress, (at least I don't think that there is) but why didn't you admit that from the beginning? Didn't you think that it was pretty important to say that they were fakes?

1. cundare2 - I would love to hear more of this! Your story so compelling and well written! I never was exposed to someone who had this depth of history with my favorite musician, Are you familiar with Shakti and the various incarnations of John's acoustic side?

2. noromance - Such an awesome acoustic progression...

3. roxy54 I came here with no conception of "fake cables!" The "shame" here should be upon those who flared at me for asking a civil question.

@ristrettox6 

I understand that you were badly treated by some here, but my question is didn't you know that genuine Nordost cables were much more expensive?

@roxy54 +1 a simple google search on Nordost is all it would have taken. Some feathers here getting ruffled by exceptionally timid breezes. (Self-concern trolling? Is that a "thing"? ;-) )

With Ali express you can built a $30,000 system for $300. Only think is most of their products are counterfeit. You may or may not be able to tell the difference.

@ristrettox6 As far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter what audio equipment you own or where you purchase it from as long as you are enjoying the music. I try to live by this old saying that my mother told me; If you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all...Bless her soul!

3. roxy54 I came here with no conception of "fake cables!" The "shame" here should be upon those who flared at me for asking a civil question.

I can't believe anyone is this thick. This must be a hoax. 

Welcome to Audiogon, apologies for the condescension. Honestly, I would not expect too much with the new cables. They may change the sound characteristics some, but are unlikely to be a significant upgrade for a couple reasons. The Denon, while nicely featured, may not be resolving enough to reflect the cable change. Secondly, I dallied with the Neardost gear from AliExpress, and other than a decent digital cable, the speaker, interconnect and power cables did not offer much improvement. Just my opinion though, the only way to really find out is try them. 

Nice collection of concert experiences, I have a lot of good stories too.

@hilde45 

+1 Thanks, that was really funny m and true!

Welcome to Audiogon, apologies for the condescension. 

Some of us don't suffer fools so gladly. Not saying this applies to the OP, but really, some of the naivete in posts are clearly worth some criticism.

lak: Beautiful comment. This IS about the music for me also. Blessings to your mother.

zlone: Thank you for answering my question! Some day I'd love to hear about your concert history. I was just recalling the incredible sound system Cat Stevens had at the Auditorium Theater; massive room, pure crisp clean sound.

To those who called me "thick, a fool, troll, naive, posting a runaround and more, I really feel sorry for your displaced anger. Prayer helps!

@ristrettox6 

All very pretty, but you still didn't answer the question. Did you know they were fake, and if so, why didn't you say it from the beginning?

I purchased "Hamburger Helper" from AliExpress and in tiny itty bitty print after the name on the box it read ('s Buddy).

I just have to add hamburger and...

Enriched Pasta (wheat flour, niacin, ferrous sulfate, thiamin mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid), Corn Starch, Wheat Flour. Contains 2% or less of: Modified Whey, Onion Powder, Color (caramel color, annatto extract), Maltodextrin, Potassium Chloride, Hydrolyzed Corn, Soy, and Wheat Protein, Yeast Extract, Natural And Artificial Flavor, Vegetable Oil (canola, soybean, and/or sunflower oil), Spice, Monoglycerides, Sugar, Safflower Oil, Silicon Dioxide (anticaking agent).

DeKay

I guess I'm slow. I didn't get the joke @dekay 

I already answered you above.

"3. roxy54 I came here with no conception of "fake cables!" The "shame" here should be upon those who flared at me for asking a civil question."

Perhaps your response to dekay was accurate?

As others have said, it is very hard to believe that you thought that genuine Nordost cables would be that cheap. If they were, everyone would own a set.

I love it when people come in here to stir stuff up by pretending to play dumb. And then, when they're brought up to to speed by well-intended posters, they just double down and continue to play dumb. This is a worthless thread.

So true @middlemass 

On another topic, I got this great Pass Labz amp for $129 at Best Buy. It's amazing!

middlemass

902 posts

05-30-2024 at 04:58pm 

I love it when people come in here to stir stuff up by pretending to play dumb. And then, when they're brought up to to speed by well-intended posters, they just double down and continue to play dumb. This is a worthless thread.

I think you’re giving the OP too much credit. 

@middlemass

+ 1 maybe,,,.

It is not impossible that this was just a perverted and  lame thread by a tin hat keyboard kommando .

Disappointing…and if so, the OP will be watched for any repeat offence.