Wifi vs ethernet revisited

I think most of this depends on the quality of your streamer.

I know you said to ignore Wifi issues, which is fine, but for critical path things like my work PC and streaming I stick to hard wired. That way when things don’t work I know it’s NOT the Wifi. Now, as for the rest of it, your stream comes down via a series of switches, possibly dozens, and shares the Internet freeqay with news, video, games, porn and billions of Internet of Things (IoT) devices before it gets to you. The music parceled out and put on the freway to be reconstructed at your streamer. Sometimes packets even arrive out of order, and often several packets don’t even take the same path to get to you but your streamer has to put it all together again in the right sequence. No regenerator or galvanic isolator is going to change that.

At best, at the very best we might be able to reduce the noise, and the risk of a cable based surge. The streamers (video and audio) all work by buffering. They hold several seconds of data in memory and dole it out as the TV or DAC needs it. In live video conferencing the buffers are shorter but still there.

Now, are all Wifi appliances equivalent? I don’t know. It’s quite possible some Mesh devices have a lot lower Internet jitter than others, and therefore are better at feeding your streamer, but again, the streamer should hold several seconds of data, and 100 to 200 milliseconds of jitter shouldn’t have anything t o do with it.

So, I only see two real differences in your options. 1 - Ethernet, 2, Mesh.

The other thing to consider is I really like to keep cheap wall warts outside of my power conditioned audio AC, so I also prefer to minimize devices that could potentially pollute that.  That includes PC's, mesh routers, etc. , so IMHO if you can remove all that  and stick to 1 Ethernet cable that's pretty good, though I admit to using fiber to air gap my incoming Internet from my Wifi router, but that's for surge paranoia.

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on #4 if you get around to it as it would be a more apples-to-apples comparison with #1.  Or I suppose taking fiber out of #1 and comparing to #3 could also be interesting.  In any event it’s interesting stuff, and thanks for sharing. 

Great post Eric

erik_squires

... for critical path things like my work PC and streaming I stick to hard wired. That way when things don’t work I know it’s NOT the Wifi ...

Exactly! A wired network removes a whole layer of complexity.

@erik_squires thank you for your advice. I have a very long run of Ethernet cable to the switch followed by fiber etc as described earlier. I’m going to try option 4 as per @soix’s suggestion as well. Will leave it on for a few days — assuming the immediate sq is equivalent as I suspect it will be — and then take a call. (Though maybe it’s best to leave well enough alone as you suggest.)

I do have a couple of tips. If using Ethernet over long runs (20’ or more) use an IEC 60601 certified isolator at the end of the run. It adds 4kV of surge protection. Don’t use shorting Ethernet surge protectors. EverStar is cheapest, TrippLite, and Eaton have some at 2-3x the price. Nothing worse than losing a stack of equipment over blown network plugs. Audiophile versions are typically not tested to this standard so no idea how they’ll perform.

The other is if you have network devices near your audio/video gear consider upgrading the wall warts with iFi versions. They inject less noise back into your AC, but are typically 2x the cost of your Ethernet switch to begin with. 

FWIW, kinda on the same line on this topic. I have an LHY EFI fiber optic isolator being delivered today. I will not be able to try it for a few weeks until I return home. It internally isolates wired ethernet to optical and back. I am going to place in front of my audiophile switch that feeds my Streamer and a DAC to start.

https://www.beatechnik.com/product-page/lhy-audio-efi

Don't understand why others don't try this. Run your ethernet provider output next to your audio system (modem next to your stack). Short run of high quality ethernet cable to gaming router, disable wifi in this router (for audio system only), run long ethernet cable to second router, this now serves as wifi router for rest of house. From router ethernet to network optimizer (in my case JCAT NetCard XE, and then fiber conversion via your choice of converters (I use Sonore). Every single piece on audio system LPS and power conditioner.

Running wifi on audio system network adds noise, switching power supplies same, I've found cheaper ethernet cable inferior to higher quality, ie higher resolution/transparency with better cable ( short length of high quality ethernet out of modem much preferable to the long length cheaper cable most running from remote modem). Keep all cabling short as possible, all quality cabling, no switching power supply, optimizing every single component in streaming setup has to be considered. In my case no switch, I've tried audiophile switch, vs optimized audio system only router, adding switch inferior, adds needless complexity.

@sns yes, obviously, and I agree. I do have that setup. The problem is that I have a second audio system at the other end of the apartment.

@erik_squires (and @fthompson251) please correct me if I misunderstood, but after each ethernet run to each of my two audio systems (one of them is over 40'), I have a short fiber-optic "moat" which gets reconverted to ethernet via etherregens before they enter the audio system; already noted in my original post. Would that not suffice against surges? (And point taken on the iFi.)

OP: I can’t seem to read a good forum thread where the usual stuttering’/buffering problems (that we all know about)

Apparently, I don’t know about it. My WiFi has been rock-solid with an 8 year old Auralic Aries streamer. No hiccups at all. Perhaps, it's because both TX/RX are extremely tricked-out. I’m very pleased with my Fidelizer Audio Airstream.

@sns let me take that back. In theory I could isolate both audio systems (plus Roon server) on one LAN port and run an Eero mesh in bridge mode on the other port, and keep them all on the same subnet. It does not solve the problem of a long ethernet run for one of the audio systems, but it separates the wifi completely, which is also worth trying. Thanks.

@sns would a Ubiquiti Dream Router be a good recommendation for a main router in your setup, or would you suggest something else. I guess there must be something simpler as I don't need the main router to have wifi. Thanks so much.

please correct me if I misunderstood, but after each ethernet run to each of my two audio systems (one of them is over 40'), I have a short fiber-optic "moat" which gets reconverted to ethernet via etherregens before they enter the audio system; already noted in my original post. Would that not suffice against surges? (And point taken on the iFi.)

Sorry, yes it would! :)  Though worth noting that once a surge is in a wire (coax or Ethernet) it can go through connected devices to the AC.  That is, your fiber adapter itself can be a surge path via the AC.  So if you use this, make sure the power supply for the Ethernet --> Fiber converter is outside your surge protector, and your Fiber --> Ethernet (if any) is on the INSIDE of your surge protector.   Still, this is the approach I use to air gap between my incoming cable modem and Wifi router.  A 1m air gap with a good surge protector for the AC wall warts.    I also use a gas discharge coaxial surge protector OUTSIDE my home. 

I use Netgear XR1000, I went with this for speed, 1GB cable service, provider servers very close to me so very fast ping times. I'm familiar with Netgear software reason I went with them, just look for speed, you want low latency with entire network, optimize speed and isolation and you're gold.

Thanks @sns   not to be nit picky but why the wireless? I (and probably you) would disable that anyway because of a separate mesh system. What about the MikroTik hES X instead? Ignore if this is getting too detailed. 

You need IP address for the daisy chained router being used for whole house wifi, switch doesn't provide this. Only managed switch can assign IP addresses.

@sns Yes yes I understand. But I don’t need a router with WiFi for this. I need a router without WiFi not a switch.

I misunderstood, thought the Mikrotik was a switch. I presume you meant HexS model, this has SFP cage for optical. The issue with optical is not all transceivers may work with your streamer, if the SFP in that removable no problem. Best transceiver I've experienced is Finisar 1475. Back to router, I haven't done in depth comparisons on sound quality, I just look for lowest latency and always use LPS to power.

@sns yes, I did mean the hEX S, but only as an example. It's a good example though: no WiFi, and an SFP cage that will definitely take the Finisar transceivers I already have. I would use a separate LAN port to run to the Wifi mesh in bridge mode.

I run an Ethernet cable from an eero mesh satellite directly to my streamer. Never had problems, great SQ on high resolution and very simple.  I was planning to get a hardwired Ethernet connection installed near my system, but have put that on hold for now. 

@debrajray Like the idea of router with no wifi/SFP cage. My only issue is not all fiber conversion created equal, I've tried generic products, my Sonore OpticalModule and OpticalRendu superior transparency/resolution. The Sonore has optimized isolation/noise/internal power supplies vs generic, transcieivers only part of the equation.

@troutstreamnm Can't tell you the number of times thought I had maximized sq from digital sources only to find incremental changes brought about increased level. Situating modems close to audio systems virtually a freebee, increasing coax cable length, may need amplifier for super long runs. If not the diy type, service call from cable company may be required. Also, modems should run BroadCom chips, better than the Intel chips. And to get full potential from hard wire setups use high quality ethernet cable, I've been through the gamut here. Generally, I've found silver is superior for all digital cables.

@troutstreamnm SQ is very good in all these setups (including yours), see my original post. We’re just trying to figure out what’s better, which is possibly a crazy exercise, but it’s fun.

On that note, @sns I’ve also tried different alternatives with fiber, including the Optical Module and Optical Rendu combo you mention. For me, a Netgear unmanaged switch with SFP worked just as well as the OM at the start of the fiber. No difference. At the other end, there was a significant positive difference (relative to the OM) when I used an Etherregen with fiber coming into the A-side and a very short ethernet cable to my streamer on the B-side. My transceivers are Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL. If I follow your advice on isolating the Eero mesh, I would like to get a router with SFP out and remove the existing Netgear switch so as to streamline the topology.

Here is the crazy thing though. I cannot find a router which (a) has no wifi, (b) has SFP, (c) has a 2.5gb port which I can use for the mesh and (d) can be run cool with a 12-15V DC power supply. The closest I can get is the MikroTik hEX S, but alas it doesn’t have a 2.5 gb LAN port.

@debrajray My thought along same line in a router, simplify the setup. Why do you need 2.5gb lan, you have super high speed internet provider? While I haven't checked lately, always on lookout for audiophile router.

My issue with SFP in router is I'm not aware of any audiophile SFP card for my custom server. Using JCAT Netcard XE in server so this mean fiber conversion post server which feeds the OpticalRendu streamer.

I've always considered adding a switch to be redundant/needless complexity for audio streaming, the audiophile switch I tried resulted in much poorer sound quality.

@sns  Agreed, each additional switch adds an unneeded layer; so the router with SFP seemed like a good call. It is unclear to me what "audiophile SFP" would mean TBH, though I do agree that I liked some transceivers more than others.

I need the 2.5 because I have a 2gb symmetric internet connection that I actually use for moving large files (not audio). Or at least I would prefer to have this; "need" may be too strong a word.

I’ve tried the same and find that a good Ethernet cable (I use a 6A from Blue Jeans cable made to length) from the router or from an Eero pod works better than Wi-Fi.  The streamer is important too.  My Innuos Zen MK3 improved the sound when I upgraded from my Bluesound Node N130 as a streamer.  

@sns This is the one I am going to try: ASUS RT-AX86U Pro (AX5700). It has wifi alas which I will disable. 

@debrajray Looks very nice, presume you'll be using LPS with this. Let us know your results.

One thing is your router-modem combo shoud be shut down unplugged 1 x a weak l for the cache gets built up,, turn off unplug for one minute ,then turn back on a tech told me this it refreshes and empties the buffer giving it faster load times 

I highly recommend buying a much higher grade router setup 

I bought  a Motorola 8702 combo router- modem on Amazon it has wifi 5 but has  docsis 3.1 , most are older3.0, much bigger processor much faster and much larger buffer easy to setup this works the majority of companies , around $270.just call tech support they ask for a Mac #  within 10  minutes up and running ,for a clear wifi or streaming upgrade the rougher is 4 amp  buy a LPS  power supply Digital is not grounded small green computer  has a decent one $299 and a decent power cords nice upgrade ,the stock $5 wall wart just add more noise .

@sns will report back, yes will get an LPS.

Thanks @audioman58 but if you read the last few posts carefully you will see why the 8702 does not work for me. I need 2.5 gb ports and I have zero use for the wifi.

Somewhat surprised someone hasn't entered discussion claiming all this nonsense. So for any novice or disbeliever, streaming chain tweaks and the ability to discern them first requires a highly resolving audio system. Second prerequisite is both streamer and dac need be highly resolving, only then will one benefit from these sorts of tweaks, these are simply icing on the cake if you will. Proof of concept, streamed music files sound quality needn't be inferior to high quality vinyl or cd setups.

And so back to the subject at hand. @audioman58 I have no doubt my router will change over time, still waiting on audiophile router.

Another tweak I've found to be worthwhile is DC cable for the LPS. I was extremely skeptical in regards to this until reading  Uptone white paper and user experience with this. So having used pretty generic DC cables for years finally took the plunge and made diy cables for my JCAT NetCardXE and OpticalRendu, these using Mundorf Silver/Gold wire with Oyaide connectors. I was quite taken aback, impact on sq similar to what I hear with AC cables! Quality of LPS also important, use the best for most important components, haven't experimented with different lps on router, Uptone JS-2 for JCAT card and OR, this choke based rather than cap/resistor based power supply.

Not sure why everyone hates WiFi, when done properly, it works great, nothing isolates like not being physically connected. However for best speed, and uptime nothing beats a direct connection.

My streamer is about 40ft from my basestation 2 rooms away. Have run a cable, and done WiFi test back to back. On my system, there is no difference between them. My setup is using WiFi. I do have a higher end cable modem, that I purchased and setup. Found a spot where it will provide WiFi to my entire house and garage without any extenders or repeaters. 

Fiber is king! Fiber is almost always "best" But real fiber is expensive, like $300 is the start for a good cable without SPIFs. Fiber has 0 noise, 0 electrons, far less jitter (network jitter not timing jitter) and is basically isolation between devices. 

Anytime you add a mesh network, it will have some issues. Especially if 2 base stations are constantly doing a "hand off". Mesh needs to be setup correctly, with some overlap, but not too much where devices are constantly hunting between 2 or more base stations. 

Adding more equipment is always a bad idea! You want as FEW hops as possible between your modem and devices. Cat6 runs under 200ft do not need anything special. Long runs are the norm in any data center. 

The wall outlet plug in extenders are junk, don't use them. 

There is 0 need for LPS on any switch gear, unless the wall wart is plugged into your stereo system power. No data center has upgraded LPS, they all use what comes in the box. 

Coming off a Nighthawk router, to a couple of those cheap boxes to convert the signal from electric to optical and back to electric. To a Netgear Powerline. To the other Powerline in my music room and lastly to the streamer. I started with a 100’ Cat 8 cable and went to the Powerline for the most part I can’t hear a difference.

I think.

Wifi  grossly contaminates your router with RFI, noise is the enemy of maximizing streaming potential. Obviously its isolated, this not the issue. The issue is every link in the streaming chain needs to be optimized. Noise in streaming components obscures the signal to some extent meaning loss of resolution/transparency, you can't get back what you lost in an upstream component. Disabling the wifi on my router was of more benefit than adding the lps. Also, since my router situated very close to  audio system, strong RFI was no doubt contaminating cables and other components.

Also, be mindful that while each individual tweak may not  be that noticeable, the cumulative effect is assuming one's entire system is sufficiently resolving/transparent.

I should also add every single one of my streaming components powered by lps which is in turn plugged into my power conditioner fed by 20 amp 10 guage dedicated circuit. Switching power supplies contaminate your entire household AC, neighbors SMPS also contaminate the power grid. Also possibility of ground loops eliminated by having all equipment on same circuit, and all dedicated lines on same phase.

On the wifi thing, neglected to mention rfi issue on receiving end. You have receiver and antenna creating noise and the wifi converter itself clearly inferior to a quality hard wire receiver/converter such as my JCAT NetCard XE. If streamer is receiving component can't image a worse place for high levels of RFI, and again you have the issue of contaminating other components in close proximity to the receiving component. 

One shouldn't minimize EMI/RFI interference effects on our audio systems. We have amazingly high levels of this riding throughout our environment, this why shielding of components is not taken lightly by many manufacturers. I have a quality tri axis EMF meter, get within a few feet of a wifi hotspot and you'll see massive amounts of RFI, the other area where I see higher levels on audio components is transformers, I see mu metal shielding around transformers in some of my components, they take it seriously. Hard drives in NAS or internal drives in streamers another one.

I'm a Network Architect/Engineer by profession, The only thing I have hooked up to Ethernet in my home are the 2 Mesh routers I use for connecting my Mesh Satilites. There is no sonic difference streaming vs cable.  You could argue there is less noise over WiFi. My Mesh system is WiFi 7. I'm able to stream 8K content to my 8K TV with no buffering,  and if it can do that, the minimum bandwidth to stream Hi-Rez audio is not even a consideration. 

Enjoy the Music

What is Ethernet, and how can I get it? I’ve never had it, and have no idea how to create Ethernet connections in my home. It’s a serious question. Thank you. 

@coltrane1 You must be time traveler, go back to your own time and forget about the whole thing they call digital, analog world much more understandable.

Hello OP and friends,  So interesting all the different ways to improve digital!  Good discussion.  I have gone to much effort to improve my digital front end.  Many have contributed ideas I have used:

Verizon Fios > Verizon Modem (with wifi disabled) Powered by Sean Jacobs LPS.

From this I run all ethernet feeds to non audio as well as Eero Pro 6 Mesh wifi (three units wired around house).  I also run short ethernet into JCAT M12 Gold Switch (also powered by Sean Jacobs LPS) this will feed only my two audio systems >

Short run into GTT DeJitterit Switch and Clean Modem.  So I have stacked two nice switches in line and found it further improves sound.  The DeJitterit Switch / Clean Modem creates  a separate 'CLEAN NETWORK' that only serves my audio systems.  From this 'Clean Side' I run a quality ethernet cable feed to each of my 2 streamers. I use no wall plate couplers, instead using JCAT ethernet couplers if needed.  I run my long cables through the wall plate to reduce couplings.

The GTT DeJitterit also comes with a 'Clean Wifi' Router, designed to be quiet and use minimal bandwidth, purely for Remote Roon or Streamer Access.

So I have eliminated all the other internet traffic from entering my clean music side of things. And thee is significant internet traffic on most of our homes!

Each and all of these things have enhanced my digital sound.  I have also demo'd the NA Tempus switch, and that is also nice.  But I owned the JCAT switch, which is very comparable, and then chose the GTT Dejitterit switch / clean modem as the best sound.

Also agree strongly with keeping all computer / wall warts etc away from audio and on different circuits.

Take care! 

Thanks @fastfreight you can see my thoughts above (and those of others) which are generally in line with yours. One thing I did not follow: if your baseline Verizon modem/router is generating two different LANs (for audio and non-audio) on the same subnet, can't you get Roon to discover across LANs and turn off the non-Eero wifi that you've mentioned? Maybe I am misunderstanding something about your topology.

Hi @debrajray ,  

 if your baseline Verizon modem/router is generating two different LANs (for audio and non-audio) on the same subnet, can't you get Roon to discover across LANs and turn off the non-Eero wifi that you've mentioned? 

So it may not have this  all correct but here goes: 

The Verizon Modem is only generating one LAN.  But the audio only feed, exiting the Verizon modem, is cleaned first by the JCAT switch, then it enter the DeJitterit unit.  Here the DeJitterit creates another wired LAN, and outputs to its included wifi router to spin off a separate wifi network so that I have control over my 2 streamers on this clean network.  My Roon core lives on my Grimm MU1, and it can only be seen on the clean network.  If I search for my Roon Core while on my main LAN, it is not seen.

This 'clean network' really improved my sound.  Taiko does something very similar.

@fastfreight yes, the clean network is a great idea but I'm trying to understand if it can be cleaned some more :-) Imagine that you threw out the verizon router and go straight from the ONT to a router that can generate two LANs on the same subnet. One LAN then goes to your switch system -> audio (which we can discuss later) but all wifi is disabled. The other LAN goes to Eero. The idea is to have your remote (say a phone) on the Eero mesh but still to be able to discover your other LAN where Roon lives. Isn't that even cleaner?  

@debrajray I am getting a headache!  I surely don't know.  but it seems to me that ANY additional traffic on the clean side is detrimental. Of course it is easy, say on my phone or laptop, to jump to cleanwifi to control my audio if my ipad is awol.

A Verizon compatible modem that can split out two LANs is interesting, but isn't that essentially what I have done?  Plus I do use wired outputs on the main non audio LAN to feed my TVs as well as the Eero units.

I certainly did not design my front end from the ground up, but implemented many improvements one at a time over years.  I read a good switch makes a big difference, tried it and found it to be true.  No skepticism from that point forward.  But I did find less expensive changes were harder to appreciate, including the Bonn 8 switch and the Ether Regen. Good power supplies for the modem and switches make a huge difference.

@fastfreight to go easy on the headache let’s temporarily forget about the mechanics of the audio path (the extra switches etc). I have some observations on this but forget that for now. The only thing I am saying is to completely separate the audio LAN from any wifi on that LAN, and just use the eero on a separate LAN. If I understand well you still have to switch from eero to the other WiFi when you need to control. Avoiding that would also be a bonus. Plus it’s “cleaner” no?

PS The tv can go with an unmanaged switch on the non-audio LAN or even on a third port from the main router. Anyway you have that already I think. 

Good Morning @debrajray ,   I certainly concur that any wifi on the audio LAN can  create noise.  But the Clean Wifi (wifi on the clean network) is designed to have minimal impact by its designer Chris at DeJitterit.  Also, there are no other appliances on it to chat with except my one ipad, so minimal traffic.  I would refer you to DeJitterit to further cull this thought, Chris is great, brilliant and approachable if you are interested.   He helped me get it all set up.  I keep my ipad on this clean network, so there is not much switching back and forth.  Everything else in my home weather wired or not, is on the main LAN.

I think this is simpler that trying to get my Eero wifi to jump over to the clean network every time I want to play / search with Roon.

I also have some Sonos gear, bedroom, bathroom and soundbar, again all on the main network.

I think a lot of people forget how much traffic in a typical home is on their Lan, and it grows continuously.  TV's, Wireless speakers, thermostats, cameras, security, PHONES, and now even kitchen appliances, lighting and even more.

@fastfreight I don't get the need to have ipad on clean side of network. I  use Android tablet getting wifi from the dirty or daisy chained whole house router for my Roon remote, has no problem seeing my server/streamer on clean side.

I also find your differing experience in regard to switches to be par for the course, many differing views and experiences with audiophile switches. I can only say my experience with  a Renolabs switch was inferior to no switch, and I kept things on level playing field using same top quality power cord and Audioquest Vodka ethernet cable. With switch in chain excessive focused images, far too precise image outlines, I strive for more live music presentation in which images blend somewhat on a large sound stage. I've found I can manipulate sound staging/imaging quite easily with my streaming chain, this also with I2S or usb setups which are both optimized. I've theorized this mostly due to differences in implementation of clocks in these devices. Harmonizing all the clocks in streaming devices/chain can be a tricky  thing.

Hello @sns,  Always enjoy hearing from you!  Yes clock harmonization and redundancy is an issue.  It could easily be an argument for combined streamer / DAC where it would obviously be optimized.  Instead, great streamers tend to have upgraded clocking, which we then bypass with USB to get to our even better clock on our DAC or outboard clock.  With my Nadac C and D, USB is the way to go to use the MF clock.  With my Grimm MU1 I like AES into my Tambaqui.

With the clean network / wifi discussion, I think maybe it is the way my DeJitterit switch / modem walls off its clean network, but I can not see anything on this side from my main network, either on wifi or connected macbook.  I believe this is the way this is designed.  In your system, how do you create 'clean side'?

@fastfreight On the clean side router which feeds my custom build server (use two computer setup, streamer is OpticalRendu, the custom build can also act as streamer with usb out, running Euphony operating system on custom build which allows bridged or unbridged modes with Roon) wifi is disabled, this router feeds the second whole house router  via ethernet cable in which wifi is enabled. The entire network within my house is seen by the clean side or first in line router, this allows the Roon remote to communicate with streamers.

As for clocking, few months ago purchased Denafrips Gaia as I wanted to investigate I2S implementation vs usb. Gaia uses OXCO clock with quality power supply for the clock, this vs Femto clocks on both my dacs, this on I2S within dacs which is standard pathway prior to analog conversion, usb clocks on usb boards is an entirely different thing. Note usb and i2s implementation can vary greatly between dacs, various quality clocks and the important power supplies for those clocks. My Musetec 006 has an extremely well implemented custom usb board, this superior to the Amamero board used in prior Musetec 005, my Laiv Harmony has a rather ordinary usb implementation. Anyway both dacs benefited greatly from using the Gaia clock vs internal I2S clock (usb board bypassed completely in this configuration). Difference with this is presentation now nearly indistinguishable from my very nice vinyl setup. Any and all semblance of a digital sound presentation was eliminated, music now flows pretty much exactly like my analog setup.

Some hurdles to overcome with streaming, one is extracting max resolution/transparency, this by paying extreme attention to noise on every single link in streaming chain. Good test for this is to have cd rips on either a streamer hard drive or well implemented NAS, compare exact same recordings, streams and rips should be indistinguishable, and streams in general should be fully immersive as rips.  Once you have this, presentation becomes the issue, clocking key to this, no excuse to have to put up with a digital sound signature. If one has vinyl setup easy to compare, otherwise aural memory and/or sense of relaxation or lack thereof will have to suffice. One other parameter of sound quality I've been able to control via streaming is tonal balance, this with usb and I2S cables, generally silver vs copper.

@fastfreight Thought just occurred to me, you should try eliminating both switches and/or just the Dejitterat and simply daisy chain your whole house wifi to your Verizon modem which if I understand you correctly is also a router, wifi remains disabled in Verizon. You still have your clean side, your Roon remote/ipad will see the entire network including streamers, and you can experiment with no switches, one switch or keep the two switch setup.

I have basic wifi and don't stream...but use it for my internet, you tube ,movies and really no problems...I have Optium .