Mac amps holding their value??? so bought a multichannel mc amp a couple yrs ago. And now upgrading to large monos, maybe from mac.
i can get abit below 50% of what i paid.
Clearly, newer mac amps do not retain value and they are fricken heavy beasts. I see so many other credible amps, that are substantially lighter - why is this ???
I want to find a 452 or 462 for a deal! Not likely to find a deal on a Mac but I am keeping an eye out. Heard Big Mac Monoblocks on some Big Focal Utopias years ago. It was awesome! I believe those Monos were very pricey however.
Like everything else in this world, there's no accounting for taste and, for some folks, it appears there are no bounds to ignorance, as well. If you always or nearly always prefer the sound signature of something other than a MAC amp... good for you! If you like or love MAC amps... good for you, too! This is about as productive a discussion as asking why so many people hate broccoli or asparagus. Does that make people who prefer peas over broccoli or string beans over asparagus any more or less intelligent than those who don't? Does it make them any better or worse judges of culinary gastronomy? Is it productive to debate which flavor ice cream is best and connotes who has better taste? Of course not! If everyone or nearly everyone liked the same things, all the time, it would be a pretty dull world... wouldn't it? There's good reason why so many famous professional musicians prefer MAC amps over anything else and I don't think that has anything to do with those beautiful blue VU meters. There's also good reason why so many people who can afford MAC amps choose them after hearing the competition. To argue that there is always something else that's "better" or sounds "better" than a MAC amp in fair A/B shoot-outs sounds a lot like that little kid in the neighborhood we all grew up with who always had something "better", bigger, newer, shinier or whatever, than anything you did. You know... that little kid who always had to be smarter? Threads like this expose those little kids! Chances are good that MAC amp owners have heard some of the competition heralded here by those kids with their snarky comments and obviously thought the competition didn't quite measure up.
McIntosh and Rolex are an interesting analogy. They both are major brands that enable other companies to exist - are they the best? No - but when did they claim they were the best and others were inferior?
Saying a Mc is warm, syrupy and bloated is a lazy statement:
Next to my previous NAD integrated amp my McIntosh amp/preamp with Sonus Faber is clear, defined and fast.
Certainly, my system sounds different than a Wilsons driven by Naim or Boulder.
In response to : " ghasley " [ @atlanticstereoYour post indicates an innocent but erroneous opinion of the role that VC/PE firms serve to a business. My reply to your post below is intended only to provide perspective, not to throw shade your way. ]
First thank you for your opinion but you are missing my point - My opinion is based on fact and end result - VC/PE is not a benefit to the " End User " You and Me ( me as a hobbyist not a business owner. My opinion is solely to warn the end user ( most who are on Audiogon is a hobbyist not a manufacturer or a AV dealer ) My opinion is simply a warning that VC/PE owned companies are not of the same build quality as they were originally built when the creator created them. As a culture the end user is misled into believing something is better because the new investor ( VC/PE ) is going to pour new funds into an existing product. I have seen first hand how VC/PC have destroyed AV brands - yes they recouped the investment it took to buy the company and in most cases made money for the investors or stock holders. Who lost ? You the end user because when you purchased the product during those VC/PE owned years either the product broke prematurely or it ends up on Audiogon for what ever reason. My mission statement is " Bringing the Passion back to Audio Video " I have been asked by many to write a review on how VC/PE has stolen that passion. Judging from the responses perhaps I should do that ? if you would like to actually see me interviewed check out https://onefirefly.com/learn/automation-unplugged/item/home-automation-podcast-episode-181-an-industry-q-a-with-tom-farinola and provide me your opinion ...Thanks Tom
LOVE the ROLEX analogies, though it falls slightly short in that different watches dont tell the time differently, as opposed to audio components which sound different....both Rolex and Mac have had and continue to have HUGE fan base and continue to sell well to a certain subset of consumers....."different strokes for different folks"....
Like Mark Levinson, Mc stuff is very well made with some of the best parts available. Mc was started a lot like Audio Research, with someone asking a friend to come up with a component for their personal system.
We found that Mc was nice looking, made very well, broke about the same as other "high-end" electronics, and had its fans.
Sound-wise, it was not in the same league as some of the later brands, but the again, speakers improved dramatically when Jim Winey and Magnepan came out.
We had some old Mc stuff--275 tube amps, etc., and some old Marantz stuff--7, 8, 9, etc. It was OK, but compared to the newer tube designs and more revealing (non-box) speakers, these products were simply not as accurate as the newer designs.
SO, a lot of our Dr. and Attorney clients liked Mc, and Jimmy Ryder in his Miami stores (Hi Fi Associates) sold tons of it. We could not get the line--back then things were very tight in awarding lines to dealers "close" to each other. That's OK. We understood that people liked the brand and the various box speakers that they drove with it. We just did not think it was equal to the newer products back then (1970's-1990's).
These days, I have no idea what they do or how well they do it, but I assume there are still many Mc fans out there. Enjoy!
I bought my first new amp in decades just before the pandemic started. I was considering a SS integrated Mac but in the end it came down to looks after considering everything else. I'm not a fan of their blue lights. I went with a Yamaha A-S3000 instead. However since hearing tube gear I sold the Yamaha and now have a PrimaLuna EVO 400 power amp.
What can I say, I love my McIntosh system. But I rarely say that I am on this forum because there are so many folks that will flame you. Go ahead I do not care...!
@atlanticstereoYour post indicates an innocent but erroneous opinion of the role that VC/PE firms serve to a business. My reply to your post below is intended only to provide perspective, not to throw shade your way.
Don't shoot the Messanger just stating facts - in my experience over the last 25 years in being in the AV industry every time a Private Equity company purchases a product that has been manufactured with Soul and Passion it ceases to have the build quality. If you know how a PE makes money, it's plan is to recoup its investment in 3 to 5 years from the purchase date. Think....How can they do that ? Find a way to make it cheaper and open up distribution... Shocking ? Who sells your beloved Mac now ? BB ? You can find it all over the net ... Go back in time and research how many great companies ( Fosgate, Levinson, Boston Accoustics, Infinity, Warfdale, Denon, Marantz, Pioneer Elite, Sunfire I can go on and on) that were purchased by PE and where are they now ? Mac has weathered the test of time because it still looks great and it has a loyal following in the Asian market. I'm not saying its a bad product just not the same product that got its reputation when Frank McIntosh started the company in 1948.
PE firms aggregate cash and invest it to make a return on their investment. They don’t make charitable grants. Many of the firms you mention above as having been ruined by PE were actually rescued (or not) from an inevitable extinction by the infusion of cash or more accurately in some cases they were sold a bill of goods by a founder(s) who were looking for an exit strategy to monetize their life’s work. The high end audio industry is a tough slog from a business standpoint to make a market or better rate of return on their imvestments. So many in our hobby view those engaged in the hifi business, be it in retail or manufacturing, as being in the business to serve the hobby in some monastic and altruistically pure manner. Thats unfair and an unreasonable position to take. Like McIntosh or don’t. Appreciate the role VC/PE plays or don’t but please at least make a cursory attempt to understand what you are talking about before commenting.
Full disclosure: I am not engaged in VC/PE or high end audio although I have investments in VC/PE firms.
There continues to be many McIntosh fans as reflected by the company’s longevity and sales. But there are also a very large number other amplifier manufacturers at all price points with technological advances of their own to choose from. I suspect the OP is a fan of McIntosh but erroneously assumes if you’re not a lover you’re a hater when it’s all just a matter of preference…and pocketbook…
so what are the alternatives??
really? There are tons of other amps - seems like trolling
The only time I see posts of people stating negative comments about McIntosh equipment is when someone asks why others always post negative comments about McIntosh equipment. Who cares if there are people that don't like McIntosh equipment? Buy what works for your ears and stop trying to get the on-line hive mind to agree with your choices. Some people just like to post negative comments to get others riled up.
Like Rolex -They are high profile & hold their value only because they are overpriced to begin with & certainly not in the top 5 or 10 of audio or watchmaking. I do not hate McIntosh - But never cared for their looks or sound so I never owned any of their gear - I do think their speakers are a very bad joke! Now Rolex on the other hand is a brand I really love to bash!!!
Don't shoot the Messanger just stating facts - in my experience over the last 25 years in being in the AV industry every time a Private Equity company purchases a product that has been manufactured with Soul and Passion it ceases to have the build quality. If you know how a PE makes money, it's plan is to recoup its investment in 3 to 5 years from the purchase date. Think....How can they do that ? Find a way to make it cheaper and open up distribution... Shocking ? Who sells your beloved Mac now ? BB ? You can find it all over the net ... Go back in time and research how many great companies ( Fosgate, Levinson, Boston Accoustics, Infinity, Warfdale, Denon, Marantz, Pioneer Elite, Sunfire I can go on and on) that were purchased by PE and where are they now ? Mac has weathered the test of time because it still looks great and it has a loyal following in the Asian market. I'm not saying its a bad product just not the same product that got its reputation when Frank McIntosh started the company in 1948.
There is a high-fi dealer that has been trying to sell a new McIntosh C-53 pre-amp for months on Audiogon . When I asked him why his customer traded in this new model so quickly, he replied that people buy Masc for the blue meters but performance in not always that great. I duuno. My firtst "audio level" Mac product was the very versatile MAS-6200 integrated amp. To my ears, it sounded fine, very fine. I now have a MA-6900 integrated and have been pleased with that also. The only difference in SQ is when i moved several times and my room acoustics changed. Now on the advice of an Absolute Sound reviewer, I'm look at the Benchmark amp and intend to use only the pre-amp side of the Mac.
Wow! Too many strange options. Never knew so many hate McIntosh? I think most think Mac owners are a bunch of snobbish pricks. Some probably are but most are just fans like myself. Not for all but for this older audiophile, they are still the pinnacle of sound to me.
Sorry to say: but I don’t like McIntosh : I mis the “feelings” of natural sound. 25 y.ago I did like it: what they changed in that decennia, I don’t know:maybe , it isn’t completely handmade anymore , other engineers … a lot of people using the same kind of speakers: B&W , Wilson, S.Faber……no, not my stuff. I prefer VAC, Ear, Wavac…
Somebody still loves McIntosh because pretty much every unit is at least an 8-week wait or more for delivery. Seems they can't make enough fast enough right now.
" Easy answer - Macintosh today is owned Lock Stock and Barrel by Private Equity money - if you know anything about companies purchased by PE the end user is buying 100 % Marketing !!!!"
- I thought Macintosh once made computers and McIntosh made audio gear. We are well aware of who owns McIntosh, however the build quality and service remains high and still made in Binghamton, NY. They enjoy a large customer base, based on performance and what I described above.
For a company that has been around since 1949 (that’s nearly 3 quarters of a century). To say that they are hated is pure uneducated drivel. What facts do have to support this thesis??? An audio chat room read by tens of people🤥😱🤡.
They sell millions of dollars of equipment every year, audio amp, pre amps, turntables, speakers, CD, Dac, streamer, video, home theater, car audio.
What a waste of time I contributed to. Slow Friday I guess 😴
Would you enlighten us as to why all private equity is bad? By definition, private equity is one or more entities investing in a business whose ownership interests are traded between private hands, rather than interests whose shares are publicly traded. McIntosh is owned to a substantial degree by its key personnel.
I’m neither friend nor foe of McIntosh, I just happen to have mild contempt toward those whose first post carries a negative tone.
Easy answer - Macintosh today is owned Lock Stock and Barrel by Private Equity money - if you know anything about companies purchased by PE the end user is buying 100 % Marketing !!!!
McIntosh is like Buick…its a fine vehicle, offends no one unless they are easily offended and the Asian market loves them disproportionately.
In addition, people to whom a Buick is a high priced luxury vehicle, it is. I seem to recall that the nuns were adamant that it was a sin to disturb the faith of others.
I have auditioned and listened to McIntosh amps through the years and have come to the conclusion that their tube amps sound very different from their solid state amps. You can probably guess which one sounded better than the other.
I love the appearance of them and appreciate their holding value. I wanted to love them on my first system and found them lacking compared to modern amplifiers in the late 90’s. I recently came back to 2 channel and had the money for them and wanted to live them again. Both amps on the stand and covered. A 999 dollar ss class d were clearly better. Analogy would be jeep, and Harley Davidson, and Rolex. They have outdated technology or performance thwt commands high prices.
I love the appearance of them and appreciate their holding value. I wanted to love them on my first system and found them lacking compared to modern amplifiers in the late 90’s. I recently came back to 2 channel and had the money for them and wanted to live them again. Both amps on the stand and covered. A 999 dollar ss class d were clearly better. Analogy would be jeep, and Harley Davidson, and Rolex. They have outdated technology or performance thwt commands high prices.
So explain to me why there are amps they sold in the 1980s for $500 new and are selling today on eBay for $4000. I’ve been buying and selling their stuff now for two years and I’ve never lost money I’ve only made money on it. I’ve been buying my stuff for over two years now I turn it on and never turn it off. In my opinion it sounds great and it’s a safe place to put your money if you’re going to spend tens of thousands on equipment.
I have McIntosh gear - sounds wonderful. That doesn’t imply other manufacturers don’t make awesome sounding equipment. Additionally, my statement doesn’t suggest there’s a value per dollar associated with McIntosh that’s better or worse than other manufacturers. Enjoy the music. And the system you’re listening to in the moment because life changes:)
who REALLY needs 200 pure true bonifide 200 watts per cahnnel?? My WBers really work best with 1 watters. Defy @ saolid 100 watts, using linestange at say 9 oclock = 85 watts NOT needed. My friends 6 watt 250 tube, at 10 oclock its 85SPL = 4 watts NOT needed. 200??? For what? magneplanar 3 pannel speakers?? Guess so.
Why dont people,like mcintosh? Who motivates this?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Same deal with Jadis around here, Don’t feel Mac is the only lab gets bad rap. Seriously I heard Dyano ST70 modded Allen Oran KT120 amps EL34 designed by a loacal master 250 tube designed by same master(pure Colbalt out trans @ 1 G each!!), Honestly, seriously straing shooting, they all sound prerrty close to the Defy KT88 Thats 5 amsp, ina blaind shootout you’d be lucky to guess which is on the speakers. Throw in the Mac, again, lucky guess.
The only thing that really matters is how’s the quality build, meaning repair factor. Jadis built to last forever with no repairs. Thats why i like Jadis, All tube amps sound pretty much same.
I wouldn’t go Mac as they are over priced and too heavy.
Based on what i know about these amps today,,I would not have bought the Defy @ $4K nor modded at $2k
I'd buya Cayin EL34 , or my friends EL34, or a Allen Organ mono blocks. Of the budget chinese 845 I will purcahse in December. can't wait.... .= will sound very close to the Defy,,, just buying to watch the 845 light up at night in a dark room,, sooo, cool of course while on the speakers...
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
