WHY IS THERE SO MUCH HATE FOR THE HIGH END GEAR ON AUDIO GEAR?
It seems like when I see comments on high end gear there is a lot of negativity. I have been an audiophile for the last 20 years. Honestly, if you know how to choose gear and match gear a lot of the high end gear is just better. When it comes to price people can charge what they want for what they create. If you don’t want it. Don’t pay for it. Look if you are blessed to afford the best bear and you can get it. It can be very sonically pleasing. Then do it. Now if you are also smart and knowledgeable you can get high end sound at mid-fi prices then do it. It’s the beauty of our our hobby. To build a system that competes with the better more expensive sounding systems out there. THOUGHTS?
I've learned a lot from this forum and have received some helpful advice, and for that I am grateful. I've also noticed that there are those who post here that seem to have a lot of misplaced emotion and are self appointed authorities on everything. It takes a rare talent to have a firm opinion on almost any component that is mentioned on this forum. Some folks can offer very confident reviews of components which they've clearly never had a chance to experience
Everyone has a certain budget for an audio system either because of financial limitations or priorities. I think it's all about trying to maximize the quality within a particular budget. Finding equipment that offers a good value for the price. I'm reasonably happy with my system. I understand however, that if someone has the ability to spend twice what my system cost in all likelihood, they are going to get a better result. That doesn't make me resentful or require me to engage in the fiction that it's easy to buy components that will outperform gear that cost three times as much. I think this forum would be a better place if everyone actually answered, the question posed based on real experience and without personal invective
that said, some of the overheated arguments are pretty amusing
Those who have the money are not waiting for anyone’s approval or validation. The only one’s you are hearing complain are those that can’t afford it. They don’t understand or relate to the luxury market. And so, who cares? You hear about it only if you pay attention to it. I don’t give them any attention and wondering why anyone else does. Life is full of choices…
A very commonly held fallacy that something more expensive is better and it's not always the case. In the stereo world, it's riddled with expectation bias and having something more expensive is expected to sound better but products from places like Schiit prove that's not always the case.
Would a pair of $60,000 Magicos sound the same as if they sold direct and were only $35,000? Of course they would but lots of people would say they didn't.
Yes I do go to what’s best forum sometimes. They are less judgmental on the higher end equipment. I own a 35k Infigo DAC that is state of the art. Hans Looman actually worked with the inventor of the Ess Sabre Dac chip itself. So he knows how to get the best out of it. There is a lot of engineering that goes into the higher end gear that people dismiss. However the important part is how it’s sounds. Most people don’t have equipment that is even resolving enough to even hear the differences in sound. Like have extremely low noise floors, greater soundstage width and depth. Extreme detail retrieval and increased dynamic range. There are levels to this and when you get to hear them you see why some people are willing to pay a premium for that you are their experience. It’s kind of funny on Audiogon you get them calling you crazy for spending. Then on what’s best there can be a sense of uppityness at times where they think they can say whatever they want without push back. Sometimes their systems are their identity.
@calvinj I have to agree at least on Audiogon. I attended the launch of the Lampi Horizon DAC in Feb 2022. After the launch, I posted my review of what I heard. The hate and negative comments caused me to ask Audiogon to take down the thread which they did. It boiled down to people criticizing why anyone would want a $50k DAC....you have to be an idiot to spend that kind of money. The funny thing is all I was trying to do was post my comments on what I heard. It just wasn't worth it for me to read the vitriol. I have seen other comments from many people on higher-end equipment.
Everyone has a budget for audio. Whether it is a $10k system or a $300k system to each their own. I am sure the $10k system sounds great in their listening room. I just don't get why people negatively comment on higher-end audio on this site. In most cases, those people have never heard it in person a particular high-end amp, speaker or DAC. That is probably why I spend more time studying audio on What's Best Forum. Enjoy what you have but there is no need to trash others who can afford whatever they desire.
If you think that’s bad, you should peruse the "Audiophile" sub on Reddit. I recently came across a member who commented that all digital source equipment sounds identical, and that streamers are therefore audiorack jewelry for the rich. You wouldn’t believe the amount of support that comment garnered among the Reddit audiophile community.
@hilde45and a good many of them seem he$$bent on wrecking the planet and finding another….. Perhaps like a pareto optimal utility function, there is a Lagrange point for ego…..
When I was a young lad, I saved up money from my part-time job and put my hifi equipment on layaway (from a high end store) and paid for everything in cash. Sometimes, it took the full 90-days to pay it off, but I did it. I don't think stores do layaways now, The equipment was a little above my league, but I made it work. I never went into credit card debt---I was so proud of my system (still am).
@curiousjim, I own a mint 2012 Jaguar XK convertible w/ 33k miles on it. It's parked in the garage for the winter (need to put the battery conditioner on it, actually).....
It's as exotic as I need. It's nice, yeah, it's pretty fast, just a very nice, fun car. I'm happy. I don't need anything more exotic. Does what it says on the package.
My point is......it's "good enough", and really, it's only me that needs to pleased with it.
I've never owned, nor driven a Ferrari. Nor a Lambo, McLaren (though there is a guy in town with a baby blue one), etc....I'm sure their specs are better. I'm sure they are more expensive, and heck, they're certainly "better".
I'm happy with what I have. I'm not jealous. I bought a nice piece of equipment, I don't need to justify it, it's exactly what I wanted, kind of a childhood dream that should be the end of it.
I wish more Audio folks would adopt that mindset.
I know this probably didn't make any sense, but hopefully .....
It’s old news.
It has nothing to hifi, it has to do with money.
I drive a VW and you’re crazy for driving a Porsche. I drive a Porsche and think you’re stupid for driving a Lamborghini. I drive a Lambo and can’t understand someone driving a McLaren. He must have a little di k you laugh and say to yourself.
I have a Node and you have a DCS Rossini Apex. You must be stupid for sending that much! No one can hear the difference anyway you say to yourself.
@audioman58definitely understand that part. I got into this by happenstance. You learn a lot through your experiences. We all have different levels of those experiences. I met a guy Dave Baskin some years ago. A dealer in Whithouse, Texas. He had a speaker bucket list and he was a high end dealer. He was dying with ALS and he built him a home listening theater cottage. Behind his main house. Amazing place. Had 600k worth of Audio in there. That’s when I realized long ago. This audio is only to be enjoyed once we die it gets sold and they move on. He passed away 9 years ago but I got to hear the best stuff on some of my long visits. We all have different experiences. I’m going to send mines enjoying this not arguing with people.
I’m out, I wish you all peace. Sometimes I ask God for peace and it occurs to me if I shut up and quit focusing on what I don’t agree with- I find it. An answered prayer.
Myself being an Audiophile for 40+ years ,and owning a Audio store for a decade.
I know build quality. And shortcuts taken in both speakers ,as well as electronics.
many Audiophile ,or most Donot know about say the many shortcuts - being cheap
in the Internal Xover , in electronics many have pretty cases and average at best build quality, and living on its laurels of the past .and trust me there are many ,
and many $$ paid for play reviews . I have been to many audio shows and horror
stories from quality small companies who could not say pay$50k in adverts to get glorious reviews ,sadly many went out of business. The politics has been a open wound for a long time. Markup many times is Waay over in electronics some charging up to 10 x what it cost them in parts , yes R&D counts , cables some 20x markup. This is why many people get pissed off because of a lot of Greed.
20 years ago many companies were owned by True audiophiles , not corporations,
which I won’t mention any names. Sad but true , people do your home work ,ask questions ,and inspect the parts ,brand name do count then say OEM brand which is a cop out for lower quality, This is my sole opinion and viewpoints
be a wise 🦉 owl and seek out Best Buy for your $$ spend, and System synergies
@tony1954people can tell us what to post and then we we so no way they say we are nasty. Look the internet allows us to use our fingers and thumbs with reckless abandon.
Lots of the different views on these threads have always been here, but the rhetoric has certainly gotten much nastier the last few years...and yes, many researchers believe Dunning-Kruger operates in both directions...ultimately, I believe it's just sad ...
@hilde45i agree with you on that I come from very humble beginnings. Built my law firm starting with $1500 I’m in my 21st year of business. I definitely understand. The cost of some items to some people are just not how they see the world and money. I can respect that.
@calvinj Perhaps it's because a lot of people hate the rich. Because once people get that rich, something is out of whack. This happened in the French Revolution.
I'm not saying that's correct the correct attitude to have. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with 81 billionaires having more wealth than 50% of the world combined, or the fact that they are taxed the least (only 4 cents in every dollar of global tax revenue coming from wealth taxes).
No, I'm not saying anything is wrong with this picture at all. But some people are annoyed about this, so when they see examples of "conspicuous consumption," it triggers them.
@cmsgolf look I thought you were a pretty cool guy when we met up briefly. Not gonna get sideways over an Audiogon post. Take care man hope to see you soon again. Will you be attending Axpona next year?
@jacobsdad2000i saw that article before and I agree with most of it. When I go to audio shows the prices for gear are all over the place. There is a segment of the population that can afford the gear. There is also less of a middle class now. In addition to that the music sometimes becomes secondary. I listen to a lot of fast quit hitting jazz that I want to sound live. Some people have taste that don’t require that and don’t need gear to the level of what I have. We all have different goals in audio and sometimes just a warm relaxing full sound will do. Some of us have taken it to extremes. But reading the article he makes several great points about affordability, need, accessibility and the actual music. When I demo tracks I know the artists, when it was made and the story behind it. That makes the music more enjoyable to me. Also I can’t stand the same track that we ALWAYS LISTEN AT THESE SHOWS!
@coralkongi guess it is serious business you are 100% right. I’m argumentive. I’m projecting and I’m supposed to get my posts approved by certain folks. Interesting. Anyway it is what it is.
I know that we met a couple of years ago. I am trying to understand why you let what other people think of equipment or how much others spend on it impact you in any way. If you do, that's on you and you need to look within and understand why it bothers you so much. If you take that as me telling you what to do, so be it. It used to bother me, but I let all of that crap go. I am much better off for it. People spend so much energy needing to prove that they are right instead of realizing that they are different and no amount of energy spent is going to change that.
@mitch2maybe Im projecting. That’s possible as well. But look we all have our opinions about what we see and feel and I’m ok with all of it. At the end of the day it’s a forum. People talk and have opinions and I will mostly leave it at that. Not searching for an argument. Also I haven’t complained about the feedback at all. The only thing I complain about ever is anyone telling anyone else what they can post or not post. The rest I’m ok with.
@cmsgolf I met you a few years ago in person . I have actually bought smthg from you. You ought to know I’m not going to tell you what to do or post. You are not going to tell me what to do or post. That’s just how the world works. Not trying to be abrasive or anything. We have our opinions etc. But I’m not going to be mad at you over an Audiogon post. Doesn’t make any sense. Anyway. Take care.
You must have mistaken me for somebody else who actually cares how other people spend their money because I don't, and occasionally say so in my posts. I am possibly guilty of occasional snarky comments (although I mostly aim for sarcasm and innuendo). I don't quite understand the new SKSC sickness you have discovered but suggest is is possible you are projecting.
Interesting concept for contemplation - if you don't want comments or feedback about your posts then quit asking questions on a public forum. Some may think you are simply searching for an argument.
@nonoisegreat take on it all. We all have our opinions about this all. At the end of the day. We all purchase what we want. Have our opinions and express them in any way we feel like. There are those that think it’s ok to,post this. There are those that don’t. The truth of the matter is that most of us will never hear each others systems. Most of us will never do any business together or even talk to each other in person outside of these forums. Most of us are so strong willed about how we feel that we wouldn’t listen to each other anyway. I see posts all the time that I don’t like or agree with and I pass them up. To each his own mind and opinion. This is only audio. A hobby we all should enjoy. But like I said before I would never tell you or anyone what to post or how to post. Not my place.
How many times has this topic come up? I don't know about anyone else but I'm way past that and can give a tinker's fart about it. There's this phenomenon of some deluding themselves into thinking they're "influencers" and love to dominate others online for fame, relevance and money. To hell with them. They pollute all manner of discourse and it's getting worse. Spend more time listening and enjoying what you've got.
@mahler123 I posted this because I was reading some of the comments about the gear. I see the snarky comments that happen I just wonder why. I wanted to know what people think. Look we all can say what we want and post what we want. I might not like something you post or say but I’m not going to tell you what you should or shouldn’t do. I just don’t do that. Period.
@jacobsdad2000not being abrasive at all. Man look. We all get to talk about what we like want or things that we ponder. This particular thing I see come up quite often so I’m just seeing how people feel or what they think about it. Not being abrasive at all. Just saying why do a lot of guys think they have the right to tell me or anyone else what to post or how to post or what subject to post on.
@csmgolfok! There you go! I’m not riled up at all. Pretty much expect it at this point. I’m not the problem or a problem at all. I just wonder how a simple post like this one leads grown men to tell other grown men what to do. What to think and who they are. I posted this because I wonder about it. I’m not triggered at all. I got my system. It’s sounds great and I’m happy. Take care. Sorry about being so defensive. Lol. Anyway. Take care. Anyway. Everyone enjoy your systems and just ignore my posts if you don’t like them.
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