Which has a greater influence on sound quality, the amp or the preamp?

I am pretty sure this identical question has been asked in the past, and every time I have read it, the answers are (like almost all audio topics here) split with no clear consensus, and a lot of "both" answers.

I am going with "both," but the importance of each manifests itself in different ways. I’ve played around with a few different tube amps, and each amp change did something. I didn’t start to feel like my system was sounding truly "musical" until I upgraded from a digital HT preamp to my first tubed preamp. I upgraded that to a better tubed preamp and lost some warmth but gained air and detail (which to me means a better imaging and a better defined sound stage).

The answer is always the same, it depends. That said it's hard to beat a great tubed preamp.

Whichever, in the current setup, is less good.

It is probably impossible to beat a great tube preamp.

I’m not an engineer, but my uneducated guess is that the harder the speaker is to drive the more the amp matters in terms of sound quality.  My speakers are a relatively easy load and I hear bigger differences between preamps than amps, which would echo what others have said that “it depends.”  In the end, and no matter which one makes a bigger difference in a given system, balance is the key and that the amp and pre compliment each other in ultimately achieving the desired sonic characteristics.  That’s my take/experience anyway.

Both!!!

Yeah, balance is the key. And speaking of tube equipment - tubes matter, a lot.

@inna +10!

It really depends on how neutral and transparent each piece in question is. In a top notch system, the weakest link will stick out like a sore thumb...not so much on a system with multiple veiling and smearing issues. Plus, as mentioned, the amp/speaker interface matters.

At some level everything matters.

Each are important but a high quality, low noise high gain preamp can bring your system to a higher level of excitement and dynamics than a basic preamp connected to a powerhouse amp.  

I have been pondering this for a while but don’t have a succinct answer yet.. but what I have goes like this.

Yes, both are important but the preamp is the heart of the system and as such is more important. However, I always remember the huge effects on bass presentation and gross change in the rest of the frequencies given by the amp.

I think it is that the preamp sets all the nuances across the spectrum… it affects much of the personality. Then the amp makes big accentuations and attenuations on top of that. While the amp makes a few big changes the preamp makes more nuanced changes across the board which add up to being more important. When you are talking similar quality. I tend to error in spending more on a preamp than amp. 

Or maybe this, if you don’t get the preamp right then the amp can’t get it right.

Both can, and do affect sound quality. Every component and interconnection in the chain affects the quality. Depending on your source you don't always need a preamp in the system. 

You may not need active preamp in the system but you will always want it, whether you know it or not.

@inna Not me, I'm very happy with my Tortuga Audio LDR Passive Preamp.

It lets me hear what`s in the recording without adding any unneeded flavoring.

Crystal clear sounding, never needs warming up either. Very easy to hear changes like rolling tubes or cables etc etc.

Also, with the numeric volume display showing 40 ( it goes up to 70), my system is playing about 85 db (too loud imo)

More people should try one and see for themselves 👍

@scm 

I’m with you. I’ve had preamps from Pass and Herron. Very good stuff.

But, I’ll stick with my EM/IA Remote Autoformer (pure silver) all day, every day. When I put that sucker in my system it was one of those glorious audiophile days. In the year or two since, I have not thought about wanting/needing anything else.

Though I’ve been told I may not know it 😆

Well, sound preferences differ, so do preamps. As far as I know, most audiophiles do have active preamp in their systems. Going direct can give more pure but less refined presentation.

@inna Yes, I agree most do, but that doesn`t mean much really.

Can you explain the "less refined presentation" part ?

I’m of the camp of “the entire audio chain matters”.  It’s not pre vs amp, but rather work on the weak links in one’s audio chain 

Signal source. Garbage In, Garbage Out.

Would have to agree with signal source being the most palpable. An upgrade of streamer with a good power supply (and better power cable on it) pretty well transformed my system. 

Both of course, but to answer the question I agree with ghdprentice.

Either preamplifier or amplifier can dramatically improve or worsen the sound of your system.  However, since there are plenty of good amplifiers in comparison to not so many good preamplifiers, my vote goes to - Preamplifier. 

Through the Sixties through the two thousands, I had. separates ( with one exception). Everything I changed, changed the sound. I bought a Hegel integrated a couple of years ago and it’s great, but early this year, I went back to separates and I’ve been having a blast rolling tubes again.  And yes, tubes make a difference as well.

When I added the PassLabs XA25 to my system many years ago now, it made the single biggest impact because it took over from an average AV pre/pro combo. It took control in a good way of the speakers I had at the time, PMC Twenty26's. They really shined in full bass to great mids, and highs where ample decay prevailed. Later on, adding the XP20 did not make as much difference at all, and I looked to sell it. There are obviously a number of dimensions involved: power and control versus tonality and timbre, and many more, Each component impacts these more or less. Generalisations are nearly impossible in this domain. That's why trying and listening for synergy are the most helpful pathway-makers.

....and all 'n all, it's just synergy, y'all.....

That, and your preferred POV.... ;)

They both offer different sound quality and sound characteristics.  

"Is it the inside dirt or the outside dirt that matters most?" assumes a nonexistent hierarchy.  It's the side of the glass with the most dirt tempered by whether fingerprints or water spots bother you more tempered by what floor you are on and how tall is your ladder.

The CLOSEST you get to a LIVE performance with a Wide and Deep soundstage is with a Tube preamp and a Solid State amp. Period.

@mbmi I get all of that using my passive (battery powered for pitch black backgrounds) with a tube phono stage and SS amps. 

If your preamp or source is lacking, it will not matter how good your amps and speakers are- they cannot make up for signal loss or coloration! The preamp has to be right!

Amplifiers tend to have the most distortion of any of the links in the electronics chain (loudspeakers tend to have even more). Because of this its important than the distortion of the amplifier be benign (lower ordered harmonics) since the "sonic signature" of any amplifier is the distortion it makes (IOW you hear distortion as tonality).

I agree with @soix . It largely depends on your speakers. If your speakers have low sensitivity along with a difficult impedance curve the amp will make a huge difference. If your speakers go down to 2 ohms or lower with a punishing phase angle then they need an amp that will double its power with each halving of the impedance. If you run these speakers with a tube amp or light duty SS amp you will get a highly distorted frequency response. Your speakers will sound weak in the frequency areas of low impedance.

I'm running a pair of Thiel CS6 speakers with a Krell KSA 300S that produced 300 watts at 8 ohms and 2400 watts at 1 ohm. My speakers present one of the most difficult amplifier loads of any speaker you can find. Certain Wilson speakers are another example of this. I've read forum comments from audiophiles who have felt that the CS6's have a lower midrange "suckout." Well, they were absolutely right! They were using a tube amplifier to drive their Thiels and that is exactly what you would expect to hear.

IMO, speaker/amplifier matching is one of the most important and most neglected areas of audio. My Krell would be completely inappropriate to drive a pair of 105 dB sensitivity horn speakers. But it is one of the few amplifiers that can achieve a flat frequency response with my Thiels.

@atmasphere wrote "you hear distortion as tonality"

Could you explain? Thanks!

Someone noted above that the efficiency of the speakers makes a major difference. It seems to me that, mathematically, if the speakers are very efficient, then the output is more a function of the preamp, let’s say 70/30 for the preamp, and if they are quite inefficient, then the output is more dependent on the power amp, say 30/70 for the main amp. Also, whichever amp is being driven higher/harder will, especially if it breaks into some mild distortion of even harmonics, will color the sound more, either warming it with richness or detailing it with presence, depending on the tubes in each amp, whether they are complementary or contradictory, and which amps are having the greatest influence. And this same influence may have an effect on SS amps as well, depending especially on the output chips selected vs. the power chips.  

And someone above alluded to garbage in, garbage out when impressing on the importance of the pre-amp. True. And the most we can control if our source is streaming or CD. But, that applies to the earliest point in the system we can control, and we still see a lot of people not paying attention to their cartridge and stylus on their turntable - the ultimate GIGO. (We are hoping the producers of any records-CDs are recording to highest standards and pressing the vinyl right, etc.)  Just sayin. 

I try not to use a component that’s obviously colored ahead of the power amps. Get a good transparent source and a good transparent preamp, then you can indulge yourself and shape the presentation a little with your choice of power amp, knowing that everything upstream is as true to the source as your budget constraints allow.

Probably the phono stage, the preamp, and the power amp; in that order. Best of the are all pure tube. 

Just wanted to totally agree with @tannoy56.

Where it starts. Source. Pre.......power and all interconnections.

Of course each step could be the weak link in a system, but you would never know how good your speakers would/could sound if you don't give it a chance to be supplied with good input.

@willyht what has your experience been?

Since I started upgrading my system from mid-fi to hi-fi 6 years ago it has been 100% Audio Research. I have been through 9 different preamps and 4 different amps. I always saw the biggest impact from amps with the preamps offering more subtle differences.  The majority of these upgrades were with the same speakers.  I tried a few different speakers along the journey but always sold the contender and stuck with the original. 

I may be wrong but I have an impression that quite a number of audiophiles use different brands of preamp and power amp. Many also think that it is in fact more difficult to make a great preamp than power amp. Besides, synergy doesn't mean it must be one brand.

 but you would never know how good your speakers would/could sound if you don't give it a chance to be supplied with good input.

+1

Yes, but there is always a point when it is time to upgrade speakers too.

Yes, but there is always a point when it is time to upgrade speakers too.

Yes, I am sure there is.

Yes

Which is more important to walking? The left or the right leg? 

Now that I've gotten my morning snark out of the way, my answer is that they are both critical but they perform different functions and thus their relative importance is contextually dependent. 

I think it depends on the equipment used so Both.

I've gotten the most noticable differences in system sound based on (descending order of magnitude)

Speakers/Headphones 

Room (for stereo listening)

DAC/Cartridge 

Subwoofer placement/integration 

Phono stage

Amplifier (tube types)

Preamplifier (with/without tube type)

Streamer

I haven't done DSP but do have a DIRAC unit collecting dust and based on what others say it could fall somewhere between subwoofer integration and amplifier.

Yes to both unless have a mid-fi or worse amp that will mask the change a preamp brings.