Its like the SH forums. Terrible.
What is wrong here.. on Audiogon?
I don't get it. I ask a legitimate question about help on picking a preamp for my Pass Labs amp. I get maybe 10 responses. Some other guy who apparently is not a Pass Labs fan, has a thread on Amps with lights/meters and which sound better? He gets 50 comments.. Is this an example of reality TV's effect on society? Maybe someone will become a hit on here telling fart jokes.. Just something to think about!
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Ah, you've been inflicted with the "expertise" of the self proclaimed experts. Many of them say they have 30 years experience in audio but it's more like one year of experience thirty times. I have never heard any of Nelson's recent amplifiers; always liked the old Adcom amps he designed, though. In any case, best of luck in your pre amp search. By the way, if you turn that amp with the lights and meters around backward and listen to it, you can no longer see or "hear" the lights and meters. ok |
Your question about specific gear can only really be answered in a meaningful way by those few that are actually familiar with the Pass gear whereas any shmo can offer an opinion about VU meters. You’ll find any topics based purely on conjecture tend to get the most responses. Conjecture is easy. Anyone can do it. |
Personally I wouldn’t characterize a relatively light-hearted thread about a matter that is essentially inconsequential, that involves individual preferences, and that has no right or wrong answer, as "anti-intellectual" and "dumb," or even as being objectionable in any way. And others have provided good explanations above as to why that thread is receiving many more responses than your preamp thread. All of which, IMO, does not amount to anything being "wrong here." To the extent that something is wrong here, IMO, it is mainly how the personalities of some members come to the fore in threads about controversial matters that could well be discussed on an intellectual level, and cause those threads to devolve into unconstructive, unpleasant, and nonsensical exchanges. Such as threads about certain controversial tweaks, for example. BTW, I use a DEQX HDP-5 as my preamp with my XA25, but I haven’t responded in your preamp thread because it’s a whole different thing than a conventional preamp, its use involves a very substantial learning curve, and it wouldn’t meet your stated budget. Regards, -- Al |
coachpoconnorActive preamps are a dying breed, sources these days with multiple inputs high output, and output stages as good if not better now, are taking their place with their own volume control ability. Cheers George |
Maybe something with unity gain. I have a Dodd preamp (no longer made) with unity gain driving a Pass Labs Aleph J and it is much, much better than a Schiit Saga I used to have. There’s a thread on the Hornshoppe Truth preamp here and it has unity gain and can work with any source impedance and pretty much drive anything |
I’d approach pairing a passive preamp or other unity gain preamp with the XA25 with caution, as its gain is somewhat on the low side (spec’d as 20 db; measured by Stereophile as 20.4 db). Stereophile measured the XA25 as being capable of supplying 80 watts into 8 ohms. It can be calculated that for an amp having a gain of 20.4 db to be driven to an output of 80 watts into 8 ohms an input of slightly more than 2.4 volts is necessary. Without a preamp supplying additional gain you won’t get there with the vinyl-based source you mentioned in the other thread, even with the volume control at max. And even with a digital source you would find yourself setting the volume control at or near max to drive the amp close to 80 watts, should that be necessary on the musical peaks of some recordings. That being especially likely to be an issue with recordings having wide dynamic range, such as many classical orchestral recordings. On the other hand, though, with your Zu speakers you may never need the amp to supply anything close to 80 watts. But I would consider this issue carefully before proceeding down that path. Regards, -- Al |
For what it’s worth my Pass Aleph J has the same gain as the XA25 afaik but the Aleph J only puts out 25 watts. For whatever reason when I use a unity gain preamp I can only turn the volume dial to 10 o’clock before it’s too loud but with a pure passive it’s past 1 o’clock. I do have some efficient Klipsch speakers though and my dac puts out 3v. |
bjesien I know.. isn't it great! I've been laughing for the last five minutes and the Lights and Meters are great also. I admit I might have been a little bored this afternoon. There is one thing this proves to me... this forum likes a little controversy. I've never seen a thread of mine get so many hits. I will research all suggestions thanks! |
I’ll start by saying my knowledge on audio equipment is extremely limited, to put it nicely, unless you count "The Record Eater" turntable I owned four decades ago. I am going to agree with millercarbon and glennewdick, it is quality over quantity. I’ve asked a couple of questions, and I’ve been thankful for everybody who took the time to reply. It is interesting, I immediately thought of atmasphere, who is truly an expert IMHO, and the replies he submitted to my questions. I also find it a bit ironic that the OP refers to other thread as "a thread that seemed so dumb." Maybe it is a "dumb" thread to some people, but to others, and especially somebody like me with limited knowledge, it is a chance to learn what might seem the most basic ideas to those who’ve been involved for decades. Maybe the OP of that other thread was just looking to create a controversy, but I’m able to learn from reading both sides when people have different opinions. I’ll finish by saying, IMHO, Audiogon is excellent, appreciated for providing the forum in the first place, and also for those who spend time to helpfully answer questions. |
Not necessarily true about having a device with a volume control (say a dac) a preamp is unnecessary. I’ve had both the ps Audio DS jr and now the DS sr and they both sounded much better going thru a McIntosh C47 preamp compared going directly into my PS Audio BHK 250 amp. Many others on the PS Audio website have stated the same outcome, most prefer using a preamp. I tried to save $4000 on not needing a preamp but no luck. |
Hello OP: I ask a legitimate question about help on picking a preamp for my Pass Labs amp. I get maybe 10 responses. First, I sincerely and genuinely hope you get good advice and end up with a match that you love. I'm sincerely sorry I don't know Pass amps well enough to help you, and honestly I'm surprised since there are a lot of pass fans in these forums. If I had an answer for you I'd share it. Some other guy who apparently is not a Pass Labs fan, Sounds like it may or may not be me.... has a thread on Amps with lights/meters and which sound better? Oops, nope, definitely not me. I never said that amps with meters sounded better. I only said they are better. :-) It was in fact meant as a lighthearted, but honest thread. Honest in that it exposes how very different our desires are, and that we should be able to respect what others like while at the same time able to pick a different path than theirs. I'm also a sucker for nostalgia and reminiscing about gear from the 1980's so I am enjoying it immensely. Unfortunately, at the root, you've stumbled upon the nature of social engagement on the internet. Despite having a VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION you may or may not have any engagement at all, and sometimes trivial issues consume an entire populace's imagination. This bothers me too. I know way too much about the Kardashians and way too little about the fall of the Prussian Empire. |
I agree with
rbstehno1
about liking the sound better with a good preamp between the DAC and the amp. That's based on the same two PS Audio units, but with different brand preamp & amp. |
To try to help the OP feel a little better, I have seen many threads where people ask for recommendations for a particular component and they get 50 replies recommending 45 different brands. That doesn’t help a lot either. You’re probably better off looking into the smaller number of recommendations you received and if none of them work out, try again with a slightly different request or a more specific one based on what you’ve learned from the first set of recommendations. |
I’m not a “jaded vet”, more “noob” than anything. But personally, I’ve come to appreciate the Audiogon forums and I sense a distinct personality or perspective that I’m not getting from other forums I’ve lurked on. That’s just my story. Not my point. But again, as someone who’s come to appreciate the community here and it’s wide range of seriousness, knowledge, intensity and snarky character, my immediate reaction to reading your post here is..I didn’t realize it was a contest. Maybe that’s just me. I’m not a person that compares “likes” or seeks out engagement in bulk. Personally, I value people’s intention, their experiences and more than anything, their time. I’d take ten, sincere, engaged opinions over 100 predictable, repetitive responses all day. Again, just my opinion; my experience. If anything, this just highlights what I’m understanding to be a deeper misunderstanding of “reality” that’s rampant in our lives. Our current cultural fix with these screens and their content has penetrated even the most intelligent of beings, the Audiophile. This is alarming. Up there with Global Warming..at least! |
Asking for advice on Audiogon is no different from panning for gold... some days you just have no luck! I have been fortunate and found informative and thoughtful people on this site who have really helped me with my questions. One of the greatest photographers in the world, Ansel Adams, was often asked for advice from beginners. His response was always helpful and kind. Adams once gave a newbie the exact tripod position, the exact camera setting along with just about every technical set-up particulars one would need to take one of his famous nature pictures. Nothing hidden, no ego...just a knowledgable master offering a nugget to someone asking questions and wanting to learn. |
erik_squires6 It's people like Kardashitrumps that bring about the fall of an empire, so you could call it studying history OP, Think long, think features, think quality. Generally, it's not magic achieved, it's mistakes avoided. a preamp with a strong output signal with remote control, other desired features, will be an asset with any setup, current or future. I would think more about how much it's phono eq is respected. I would also think about tube or SS, unless you have determined that already. Perhaps find a few preamps with the features you want, then start a thread looking for help picking one of that short list. |
Another Noob here. I am picking up on some of the information, style, prose, and "culture". It is obvious that there are "experts" posting here....but the forum is very hit & miss when I compare it to others I frequent. I have taken this as the audiophile forums are... lets say...different. I'll never afford $20,000 speakers or spend $20,000+ on a system. BUT I do appreciate quality and affordability for myself. That being said I'll pick and choose the topics I think are of value to me. Sometimes I'll have a response...most times not. I also do not care for the forum software here. I would rather answer a post directly and have my post answered directly than scroll the entire page to post. Then...you hunt for answers. |
Amps with meters is an Erik S thread he is a Legend(in his own mind)thats why so many people respond. I'm going to go get my health screening, because I have a feeling it is going to be many many years before @ebm wakes up to realize the logical error in that statement. I want to be around for when he does. To speed things along, I add a hint: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oxymoron |
A few comments- I agree- these threads seem to be like dropping a pebble in a puddle- within ten minutes every possible fringe response is posted and the thread is w-a-y off base with comments that are not relevant, often controversial or confrontational. Unfortunately the same thing happens on every social media site it seems- really unsettling to see how people think and feel from behind the anonymity of their keyboards and how much personal info they're happy to share publicly, engage in name calling, politics etc. In regards to a pre-amp- I have a Pass 250.8, Focal Sopra 2, REL s5/SHO and PS Audio DSD Jr. I run a Pass XP10 and it sounds great. Very quiet, neutral and musical. Built like a tank as is the metal remote for it. I bought it used on Audiogon for around $2500 as I recall. I stream Tidal and Quboz via Roon and don't need a phono stage... |
I have found that the experts do not know whether I will like something or not. Now I will ask about FACTUAL information, but as for subjective opinions, not any more. Asking what audio equipment sounds better is a like asking someone which ice-cream brand and flavor am I going to like better. That is something my OWN experience only can answer. |
