What happens when the stylus tip wears out on a $12,000 cartridge?


There is no shortage of stereo phono cartridges with 5-figure price tags. What do you do when the stylus tip wears out? Do any/some/all manufacturers of these cartridges provide or offer a re-tipping service? Or do you just lay out another 12 or 15 grand for a new cartridge? Sorry for my ignorance - the Denon DL-103R/Lithium Audio Musikraft shell I currently use is the most expensive cartridge set-up I’ve ever owned. I’ve had a couple re-tipped by Soundsmith in the past for $200 - 300. What do you guys at the other end of the price spectrum do?

128x128jmarini2

Harold Weiler wrote about the wear and care of records and styli back in the mid-’50s. The book is long out of print and can be found, among other places, on the Shure site (though as far as I know, Shure had nothing to do with the original publication). I got onto this from Mike Bodell, who was studying more modern cartridges that track at far lower weights and use more advanced stylus shapes than the conicals of the day.

One of the fascinating things about Weiler’s study is that he worked with QC personnel at a record company, who could discern when a stylus was worn. Weiler was initially unconvinced, but spent enough time with them to hear what they were encountering.

Fast forward to 2019 or so. Mike Bodell wrote a more modern study (which I published) called The Finish Line for Your Phonograph Stylus. In doing so, he tried to bring some of Weiler’s work up to date. It is a worthwhile read. In essence, Mike (who was a geologist, so knows a little about "rocks" and a seasoned audio guy as well) concluded that the life spans cited for a lot of modern cartridges are extremely optimistic and represent a sort of outer limit.

Mike has some pretty good suggestions, apart from keeping your records and stylus clean-- using a simple tally counter (a clicker) to keep track of the number of sides played- you can do the math in your head.

I do have one of those fairly hard to find Shure stylus microscopes here, but in truth, have no training to evaluate the condition of the stylus. One of his associates, Ray Parkhurst, who did the macrophotography for Mike’s piece, separately conducted an informal experiment using a very light tracking cartridge, with little visual evidence of wear after quite a number of hours. However, the market today doesn’t really support those types of cartridges- I remember them but don’t use any.

I have a number of good cartridges. Peter L. retipped my Airtight Supreme by preserving the cantilever and motor assembly and inserting a new diamond stylus. When it comes time to retip the Koetsus I have here, I’ll have to cross that same bridge- I want to retain the character of the original cartridge, now that the company appears to be moribund.

Anyway, a good read, both Weiler and Bodell’s updated approach to the topic.

What goes into producing a $15K Cart' from one Brand, that separates it as a construction from another Brands Cart' $3K, $6K or $10K.

It is already known that certain Cart's in the US are offered at $10K and can be imported to the door from Country of Manufacture for close to 50% less as a purchase, Shipping and Import Levy will need to be added.

So a $10K Cart' through certain suppliers has been a $5K cart' plus shipping + Import Levy + Importers Mark Up.

What has also been learned the Hard Way, is that the Importers Mark Up was very well protected through their offering a 90 Day Warranty limitation.  

Greetings 

The only thing one can do is trade it in for a new one or up your game and go for a $15k cartridge.

Once you get to the high end in cartridges it’s hard to go backwards.

Joe Nies

 

@mulveling 

Sounds like I have to stretch out my use of my Koetsu Stone cartridge. Also not sure if they can retip my diamond cantilever in my Corralstone D. 

As stated " I am Mr Average Thinker ' on such a Subject. 

I have 'thought' about the Cantilever to Armature Interface being a mechanical coupling being one that is not dependent on adhesive and be a coupling that is more in relation as a coupling, that is similar to the micro mechanics found in certain watch designs.

I don't see any further need to flog to death, this very basic idea. 

@pindac I think you are suggesting MC cartridges might be made with interchangeable stylus/cantilever assemblies? And you would make it simple and perhaps not require a technician? How would you suggest getting around the stumbling block of the connections between the coils on the proximal end of the cantilever and the output pins?

Not one idea that will be proposed by the average thinker for a MC Cart' to have a simplistic exchangeable Cantilever/Styli assembly will be one would be Cart' owner friendly as is the MM methodology for C'lever/Styli exchanges.

The designs I see that can be put on the table by 'Mr Average Thinker', are ones   that would have the need of a professional technician to carry the procedure, as being invasive of the very very fragile assembly is unavoidable in a typical MC design needing a new part?

A design that has low man hour needs to complete the exchange and the notion that fragile parts are much more protected from associated risks for being damaged, might? make the idea of having a Cart' with easier to exchange C'lever / Styli as an attractive option for learning and assessment about materials effects on changes to produced sound produced with differing materials used for the assembly at this interface.

Being myself an 'Mr Average Thinker', I can't see much more value to attempting to carry out such a design. 

In the hey day of MM, it was not uncommon and at the present still here but less common, to see off the shelf parts as a C'lever / Styli assembly, that is using different materials from those selected by the OEM for certain MM Cart's. 

@mulveling 

The cantilever can be removed from ferrule. The ferrule and armature are held in place by the tension wire. You can also replace the entire assembly by loosening the screw holding the tension wire and pulling the whole thing out after removing the front pole piece. I think this is what the manufacturers do. I am not sure what adhesive is used on the proximal end of the cantilever but it does not have to be near as strong as the one that holds the stylus on. I do know what happens when they forget to apply the adhesive. I had a cartridge the stylus wound up pointing at 8 o'clock instead of 6 o'clock. The stress of tripping the end of record lift was enough to turn the cantilever in the ferrule. It was covered quickly under warranty. 

Use Stylast on every play and the issue will never come up. My dealer looked at my 5 year old Benz under the microscope and said it looked brand new. This thing got daily use.

* Also sounds better.

This won't help with enthusiastic kids or cleaning ladies in which case Benz will rebuild your cartridge.

 

No Way - You’ll have to Live With It.

Go to the Orthography Forums out there and do the lurking , it will be much better suited to some of the Whingers who lurk on the Gon.

DT Quoted

" I love the poorly educated."

DT Loves me 😍, hopefully in a similar manner all the Performers of music over the years have Loved 😍🤩me as a fan. 

Guys any chance we could knock the Random Capitalisation on the head?

It's like reading a trump tweet

What could be offered as a simplistic method ??, as a means to experience different Cantilever Styli assemblies would be on where the Joint Pipe projecting from the Armature, was a Threaded Stub.

A Cantilever that is commonly seen inserted into the Joint Pipe, can have an assembly where the Joint Pipe is internally threaded and pre-bonded into the Cantilever.

This would leave the connection of the Cantilever to the Armature as a method not needing adhesives, which should then have a set up where Cantilevers are at much less risk of being damaged when exchanging.

The idea of not using adhesives, will make a Cantilever exchange much more predictable and possibly more affordable, hence making the idea of experiencing differing C'lever>Styli forms a easier one to ponder.

A Third Party Service could quite easily produce a Cart' that enables for this to be part of the design, and could have a sales model in place that prior to purchase enables the buyer to have a option to experience different configurations, such as Styli Type, Cantilever Material, Connector Sleeve Material.

Everything I have learned about Cart's especially MC's, leaves me of the view the Styli form has the least overall impact on the sound being produced. 

The most that influences the sound being produced in order, is the Magnetic System chosen, the Coil Wire Type, Damper Material Type and the overall structures function, as a result of materials chosen for the Cart's assembly.

All that I have experiences of, leaves me of the view, that if there was a Cart' with  Cantilever Part, that had a bonded threaded sleeve as the coupling to Armature method. If this was able to be supplied in a variety of materials, there will be materials used that will show a noticeable difference to a sound being produced.  

Or forget such ideas, maybe sticking with with what is a time served proven method, ' if it isn't broke why attempt to fix it . '

Post removed 

mulveling, Re your comment on why one cannot rebuild an MC, wouldn't there have to be an air gap between the moving coil and the magnet structures?  Can't be hard wired from stylus to output, I don't think.

@lewm sure the magnet & pole pieces of an MC generally sit outside of things, but the rest of it is hard connected: stylus > cantilever > joint pipe > armature / coils > lead outs.

Where does one choose to create the "break", and how does that affect moving mass, tolerances, field-replacement difficulty, and replacement costs?

Had my Soundsmith Carmen rebuilt for $200. Somebody else may be able to tell the difference, but I can't. Great service from Sound-Smith

mulveling, Re your comment on why one cannot rebuild an MC, wouldn't there have to be an air gap between the moving coil and the magnet structures?  Can't be hard wired from stylus to output, I don't think.

Couldn't agree more! Great guy to deal with!

 

"Before you buy it, check with Steve Leung at VAS, ask him if he can re-tip and/or rebuild suspension/cantilever/tip. Worse than wear would be bending or snapping the cantilever.

I sometimes buy broken cartridges that I know he can rebuild. I ask him first, he tells me which ones are bad choices to work on."

@mulveling Ahhh that makes sense. I did some research the Concorde  200 MC cartridge did have a removable stylus and so did a Sony MC (70's). So I'm guessing from what you said, if it were practical and worry free we would still be seeing them. 

I’m no cartridge expert.... Is it even possible to build a MC cartridge with a removable stylus like MM’s? I’m guessing not or there would be plenty out there. I recentlu learned that early Ortofon Concordes were MC. Who knew

Anything's possible, but practicality is another matter. There's no natural air gap to serve as an easy separation point like with MM or MI. An MC is literally hardwired from stylus tip to lead outs - where every micrometer is incredibly delicate. You could create separation ability with custom contacts, but where? Anywhere before the coil is too delicate and would add too much moving mass, negating the performance of an MC. After the coil, and what's the point? You're replacing the most expensive parts of the cartridge right there, so economically it's not viable, and probably sacrificing some alignment tolerances too. 

I’m no cartridge expert.... Is it even possible to build a MC cartridge with a removable stylus like MM’s? I’m guessing not or there would be plenty out there. I recentlu learned that early Ortofon Concordes were MC. Who knew

SUCCESS is/was achieved for:

that cartridge, that stylus shape, that tracking weight, that proper alignment in all respects, those new/properly cleaned LPs ...... EVERYTHING ’right’ makes a huge difference, far above Average.

.........................

I like low tracking weight

1.0g Shure V15vxmr Shure (max 1.25)

1.25 Shure 97xe; AT440ml; AT14SA; AT TR485U

1.5 Grado Mono

1.7g Goldring Eroica

2.0 AT33PTG/II (both Stereo and Mono versions); Sumiko Talisman S

as you can see, I don’t buy expensive cartridges, but I get excellent sound out of my current variety, which I hope NOT to add to.

Wear is also minimized when you use a variety, but alignment skills are important for initial overhang/null points, then VTA/tracking force/anti-skate each time you change the headshell. Easy and precise arm height adjustment is a gift you give yourself, you can change tracking weight/anti-skating very quickly after a while.

Level always on the TT deck, I re-check tracking/anti-skate every few months anyway. Dust in/on the arm/mite pee in the bearings, who knows

It is worth repeating, the alignment of advanced styli is more critical than spherical or elliptical. Not just for best audible results, also to prevent damage the mis-aligned advanced stylus can make.

The tools are inexpensive, the skills are readily acquired after a few tries, someone showing you hands on very helpful. Confidence grows. I have taught several friends, they handle it themselves now. One ’knows’, has all the tools, done it himself while I was watching, but is still waiting for me to finish recovering from recent heart surgery so I can do it for him. I try not to use the word cowardly ....

Seriously, it is liberating to be able to change/align cartridges. Hands on, making a difference yourself is part of the great enjoyment of Vinyl. Hands on, the lack thereof, was a big part of early unhappiness with CD players.

 

In 2023, I visited a friend's to assess a change to the  Signal Path within their Analogue Source, Cart' Tags were now continuous and Phono Cables and Phonostage connectors were low eddy. 

Here is the complexity that was met, by complexity, the element of hard to believe is a good description.

A donor model Cart bought in to be rebuilt was added to the Cart's to be used.

The system owner kept the Cart's condition to himself, but made it known we might be easantly surprised.

The donor Cart' really did impress and was encouraged to run on in ure.

Winding up the session the system owner revealed the Cart had been sold to him as a Cart with well over a 1000hrs of usage. To this day the Cart' has left a indelible impression and made me rethink less harshly about what defines the end of a  Cart's usage life when it is still intact and usable. 

 

I have read several times that it is found that the MAJORITY of wear is on only one side, because the anti-skate has not been properly adjusted.

I should have also mentioned improper azimuth as another cause of wear on one side of a stylus.

once again, tools and skills for alignment are critical to success.

AVERAGE

I’m no expert, I post what I have read by reliable sources.

It’s very hard to believe a diamond can wear so quickly (on average), however, the forces occurring in the groove are tremendous.

Jico is the source of the AVERAGE life expectancy chart Soundsmith included in their article about stylus shapes, based on Jico’s EXPERT research.

It is qualified, based on technical performance (not based on occurence to damage grooves, I think our biggest concern)

"stage the wear has reached the point where distortion at 15kHz surpasses the level specified by Jico for a new stylus. (Which I believe is 3%)."

Many have said they get 1000, 2000 hours, that is great, saves a LOT of money: but according to Jico they are statistically playing well into the % of distortion, perhaps unable to hear it. After all, by the time we can afford good stuff, we are OLD (on average), ability to hear high frequencies diminished (on average).Groove damage may or may not be occurring after a certain point.

……………………………………………

MAJORITY

I’m not in the majority, are you? Of course we are all part of the majority even if we get superior results than the majority’s lower average.

I have read several times that it is found that the MAJORITY of wear is on only one side, because the anti-skate has not been properly adjusted.

Which means: the MAJORITY of vinyl listeners are not getting balanced performance, (audible and stylus/groove wear) from the 1st hour or beginning at some point since a cartridge was improperly factory/dealer aligned, or subsequently adjusted/replaced.

AND those misaligned stylus wear earlier than properly aligned, contributing to the AVERAGE short life they find.

Alignment tools and skills are of vital importance in Vinyl systems.

…………………………………………………………

A spherical stylus (any stylus) does not know what cantilever/cartridge it is on, or how it is mounted (nude or bonded).

Jico says Spherical wear much more quickly than other stylus shapes, based on their research findings, AND quite logical considering the tremendous groove forces are concentrated on the smallest amount of groove wall contact, spherical the least contact area thus highest wear.

The Shibata was developed just because of the wear observed from elliptical styli when developing CD4, in the years just before 1970. In order for an elliptical to track CD4 45khz, exceedingly high VTF was needed, and wear was too high. Shibata improved that a lot, and today several line contacts have equal or even greater contact patch compared to Shibata.
A MicroLine tracking at 2g, for instance. It’s contact patch is much larger

That’s advanced stylus shapes compared to Elliptical which has far more contact surface than spherical.

…………………………………………..

This is why, On AVERAGE, a more expensive advanced stylus shape does not cost as much over time, their larger contact surface minimizing wear to both itself and your grooves.

IF your stylus lasts 3 times what Jico says, the difference between Spherical and Advanced Stylus Shape is still relative x3, and the cost per hour of an advanced stylus shape is even lower, 3 times lower? At some point the advanced stylus shape is SAVING you money, all the while delivering better performance/less groove wear!!!

No matter what, cartridge alignment is FUNDAMENTALLY CRITICAL.

........................................

Back to $12k cartridge: no way is that going to save you money!!!

 

I'm so grateful to be following a conversation about how to re-tip a $12k phono cartridge.

Sure beats coversations about laser prostrate surgery.

@dwette It is your choice of how to achieve extended usage of a owned Cart'.

When any method is adopted such as Manufacturer or Third Party Service, there are Key Words to be considered. 

Words such as ' Equivalent Part' is commonly seen in a description. 

Equivalent not identical, for many many Cart's returned for refurbishment, they will be returned as a variant of the original one supplied. 

J Carr has on another occasion made it known there is one Cart' in Lyra's range that is rebuilt as like for like. This not typical, as fragile parts deteriorate over time in storage as well as in use as the intended function. 

I have seen dampers looking like a half eaten ring donut, as a result of UV exposure. Which Cart's mounted are totally protected from UV? 

 

@elliottbnewcombjr I highly doubt, lets say, a denon dl 103 with a spherical/conical stylus is going to be considered worn out or near worn out at 150 hours. 
 

The Denon 103 is also a nude conical, which puts it a significant cut above the typical (crappy) bonded conical. 

A potential problem with forgoing an official rebuild from the manufacturer and going with a third party retip service instead is that if/when you really do need a rebuild (for the other internals, etc) the OEM might not want to touch it if a third party worked on it before.

I have two Lyra Atlas Lambda (SL + Mono) and accept that I am on the hook for costly rebuild when the time comes. I might do a 3rd party retip with a $3K cartridge, but not with these.

@elliottbnewcombjr I highly doubt, lets say, a denon dl 103 with a spherical/conical stylus is going to be considered worn out or near worn out at 150 hours. 

You can buy 10 or 12 very nice cartridges for the same money that would probably sound 90 to 95 percent as good. That way you have very many spares to last a lifetime. 

@daveyf It is such outlooks and intentions that make us all individuals, and I have no issues with anybody that makes inroads to having recorded source material close to them that is of exceptional quality as a production.

All evaluations of ancillaries for replaying vinyl that I take part in are using Vinyl pressings from the Brands known for making these high quality pressings available, along with what the HiFi Group earmarked as High Quality pressings.

For me I've made Old Bones with a large collection of Vinyl and well will be Wed to it to the end, "For better or Worse" 😎. 

IGNORE COST, when to check/replace/rebuild?

I made a chart, forgot I made it.

I have a general idea of how many hours/week I listen to LPs, use that to guess life, then ship to someone you trust to evaluate it/rebuild it.

Say it's estimated good for another 200 hours, you could try selling it with that established expectation documented, go ahead and buy a new one for yourself.

Audio Technica has a program for their MC cartridges: they check it, if worn they offer to keep it and sell you a new one at substantially reduced price. I bought a new replacement  AT33PTG/II at half price

.........................................

Soundsmith has a chart giving 'average' life expectancy for various stylus shapes.

"Wear, Tear and Life

So we know that the more extreme line contacts reduce wear.... but what is the difference?

Apparently according to Jico (manufacturer of the highly regarded SAS stylus), the amount of playing time where a stylus will maintain its specified level of distortion at 15kHz is as follows:

  • Spherical / Conical     - 150hrs
  • Elliptical                        - 250hrs
  • Shibata/Line contact  - 400hrs
  • SAS/MicroRidge          - 500hrs

This is not to say that at 500 hrs a SAS stylus is "worn out" - but at that stage the wear has reached the point where distortion at 15kHz surpasses the level specified by Jico for a new stylus. (Which I believe is 3%).

Some manufacturers have traditionally defined a stylus as being "worn out" when it starts to damage the record... in these terms the figures provided by Jico can at least be doubled, and in some cases quadrupled."

excerpt from here:

https://www.sound-smith.com/articles/stylus-shape-information

 

 

I always say: advanced stylus does cost more, but figure in the 'average' longer life, they do not cost much more.

12K, noooooo wayyyyyyyyyyyy

@pindac You make an interesting point about old vinyl and the condition that we can maybe expect. However, with the many new releases/reissues that are coming out and have been released, I see little reason these days to accept a noisy pressing of a record that i know has been re-released/reissued and is not only likely to be a quiet pressing, but also probably also at least as good a mastering ( many times better). Sure, if the original is so rare and unusual that it has not be re-released/reissued, then putting up with a noisy pressing is the only option. Luckily today the likes of Acoustic Sounds, Blue Note and Impex and others are releasing re-issues that are generally excellent.

As an aside, I used to collect original BN pressings, some of which I would pay high $$ for, now if there is a reissue, I am all in on that...at a significant saving in cost. ( and almost always at a superior condition).

I like to think my new purchase Vinyl will be quite high in quality as a first replay, but usually it had been found not to be.

Buying from a supplier that makes a return easy is beneficial, and I have returned an Album on one occasion three times, of which I believe the fourth supplied was the better of the batch. This same Double Album was cleaned using the PAVCR Manual Method and was much improved, much of the noise diminished.

When buying Albums under my other guise to help a new to the industry Artist>Band, this can be a increased risk as a Crowd Fund or Merchandise Web Page can be the sales portal, returning an Album can be less straight forward.

I take all new purchase Albums to my HiFi Group to offer new musical encounters, to date the die hard Vinyl Brigade have always been complimentary of the Vinyl's Quality.

When it comes to replaying my long term owned Albums, some as long as 40 years, where many of the performers are now passed, I don't go heavily on the criticism of the Vinyl's condition, I just like it to replay in a way, I feel the Styli is not being exposed to unwanted abuses from the grooves condition, surface noise and a tick/pop, these are merely crows feet wrinkles seen at the sides of a loved ones aging eyes. I would not swap that Vinyl out for any other, a CD will have to do, if a recording it is to be listened to without the aged interference.        

@mulveling I have not seen any hard data, however, I have personally witnessed an LP that had been damaged by just one pass of a worn out stylus ( A friend had inadvertently played a new album on his worn out stylus and then I played it back after one play on my system with my new cartridge....). The problem is that the stylus shape  ( being worn) is now essentially damaging the groove as it passes through. This is easy to understand, as the stylus is now cutting into the vinyl. I had a conversation several years back with Harry Pearson about this issue, and he concurred that the problem is that one really cannot hear what is damaged when listening to a cartridge that is worn out. Only upon a replay with a fresh cartridge will the damage become obvious.

As you say, we all own LP’s that have damaged grooves in our collections. The reason many times, besides the usual scratches due to poor handling and storage, is because the groove wall is damaged, and this is NOT something that can be seen under light! The result is a loss of high frequency extension and usually a lot more background hash and noise. The proverbial....noisy pressing.

I definitely should have mentioned Van den Hul and SoundSmith offer excellent rebuild rates on their own cartridges! Much lower than 50%. It’s a huge advantage. I’ve really been enjoying some Van den Huls lately, and want to try SoundSmith too.

One of the problems with a worn stylus is the fact that it is now damaging your records. This can be something that is initially not that noticeable, until such time as you replace the cartridge or stylus and hear the groove damage!

@daveyf Is there any research or hard data around this topic? I find it hard to believe there would be NO audible cues for such a poorly conditioned stylus, especially on inner grooves, and especially if you have a "fresh" cartridge to compare (many of us here have several). I had an ancient Koetsu Onyx that sounded like magic on outer and middle grooves, but a mild overlay of grungy haze always emerged past those middle grooves. It could’ve been stylus wear, or suspension - I suspect the stylus. Anyways, I didn’t play it too much before rebuild, but the records I did play seem fine.

My impression of vinyl is that it’s quite resilient, and I prefer to avoid paranoia rabbit-holes on this issue. Sure, you can damage it - usually manifesting as lots of noise. I have some of those records in my collection, complements of prior owners. Many of these records still sound surprisingly good, other than the noise (loud ones, like Blue Oyster Cult and Metallica).

There’s a video on YouTube by vwestlife where he starts with a clean sounding record and plays the 1st track repeatedly with progressively insane VTF. IIRC he ends up at 30g VTF! (yes the suspension bottomed out so maybe not a full 30g). The record gets noisy, but honestly I was impressed how well vinyl held up to abject abuse. You read some of these forums, and they would make you think the grooves should have been rendered completely smooth past 10g VTF.

Search Audiogon

VAS (Steven Leung) cartridge repair/retipping service?

 

 

 

Reading this reminded me of a wonderful quote by George Gobel when he found himself on Johnny Carson's couch with Bob Hope and Dean Martin. I'm definitely a pair of brown shoes on this couch. 😉

Van den Hul retip/rebuild all their cartridges for very reasonable prices.

The $12,000 cartridge hypothesis distorts the picture because $4-6K is a more representative price range for high end cartridges.

@jsbail Has produced a equation similar to ones I have presented in the past on the subject of cost per replay.

@jsbail stated " If you take care of your cartridge and get 2000 hours out of it, at about 44 minutes per album, it is about 2,727 albums. If you pay $12,000 for the cartridge, it costs about $4.40 to play an album. Only you can decide if it is worth it to you. "

This is also able to be presented in different manner and one that has been supplied recently through a Cart' Sale as an opportunity to be realised.

Obviously an option such as this is not too common and is one that is Cart' Bound, leaving the idea of having Cart' Options as the long haul methodology to make a Purchase.

A $10K Cart' with approx' 100-200 hours of usage life was put up for sale at approx' $6K.

If the 2000 hours usage was realised this would come in at, using above math' $2.20 per replay (1000 hrs @ $4.40).

Using a Third Party Service to overhaul the Cart' @ approx' $500 and the following usage extends to 2000 hours the cost of replay per Album drops to $1.60. (1000 hrs @ $3.20)

The Cart' in use 'will' by design and material selection most likely standout as an attractive performance way beyond a new purchase Cart's that will come in at $1.60 per replay.

As Cart's today are advancing in their designs with minuscule graduation in  improvement, even nanoscopic might be a better description, the TOTR Cart' of a previous generation 'will' not be easily differentiated as a Performer.

With the above in mind, a Cart' following one overhaul and 4000 hours of usage could undergo another overhaul @ maybe $600 will come in at approx' $1 per replay for the overall 6000 hrs. ( 3000 hrs @ $2ish)

I strongly suggest cleaned Vinyl is used any Cart' that comes with a particular Value, is sent into a Service at least once, to undergo a thorough clean during its period of accumulating its pre-overhaul hours, if this is adopted the cost per replay will creep up.

If a user with a tight budget has the opportunity to use such a methodology for their Cart' needs, and successfully achieve Two 1000-2000 hour usage periods, this is a economic way to attain usage of a item not usually considered.

I myself have Cart's rebuilt and Donor Cart's to be rebuilt.

My rebuilt Cart' in use at present, has been upgraded to be comparative to the Brands TOTR models from a past era. My Cart' has the same Damper assembly as used in the upper range on models.

The Cart' has been side by side compared the the Brands TOTR model from the past era, which today can still be seen offered as a £4K sale item. There is little to be concerned about during the A/B of the Cart's, my Cart' has certainly shown it is not the Poor Cousin.

With cost of Donor and Rebuild, if I get to the 2000 hrs of usage, using the above math, I will be in at £00.30 per replay, but for myself £00.70p vs £4.00 per reply is extremely welcomed as well.

'Oh Happy Days'.  

One of the problems with a worn stylus is the fact that it is now damaging your records. This can be something that is initially not that noticeable, until such time as you replace the cartridge or stylus and hear the groove damage!

Probably a good rule of thumb is to consider replacing the stylus and/or cartridge after a certain amount of time ( depending on the stylus shape) regardless of what condition it might appear to be.

I would think if at all possible, a re-build by the original manufacturer ( if in budget) would be preferable, simply because they have the exact specs and access to the original parts.

As good as Qobuz is, and it is good, it won’t beat a high quality vinyl rig. You are smoking some good s$&t….

Streaming doesn’t wear out, and with Qobuz it’s higher sound quality, too!

If you take care of your cartridge and get 2000 hours out of it, at about 44 minutes per album, it is about 2,727 albums. If you pay $12,000 for the cartridge, it costs about $4.40 to play an album. Only you can decide if it is worth it to you.

Footnote:  

To those who are not familiar with the Denon 103R, it is made with an aluminum cantilever and a conical stylus.

Edit: 

"automation is less important to craftsmanship" should have read "automation is less important than craftsmanship"... I hope this is clearer.

Chayro, I agree with your approach. If you love the cartridge it’s best to stay as close to original as possible when retipping. J Carr of Lyra wrote here that it may not be a good idea to change the cantilever material dramatically from original, since the suspension and other components were selected to work well with the original structure. Apropos of nothing, I followed that philosophy when having my Koetsu Urushi retipped by Expert Stylus; they replaced only the stylus. Surprisingly but only subjectively, the thing sounds better than ever. This probably means it was subpar long before I woke up and sent it off to ES in the UK.

When first returned to viny, my first carts were Denon 103R (purer-copper than the original 103), and I enjoyed their sound. As time went on, the carts wore-out and my aspirations grew.   I now had four of them, so each went in for an upgrade. 

At my request Soundsmith installed a BORON cantilever and ELIPTICAL stylus on each.  The result - unique carts with a decent body, good engine, good cantilever and good stylus. Each upgrade cost about the same as the original 103R.

Sonic improvements were easy to hear: better clarity (resolution), attack, decay and tone.  Yet, there was one issue...

{@chayro "I cannot recall reading one post here in 10 years where someone has had a cartridge worked on by Soundsmith or VAS that they were not delighted with."}

Each of the carts sounded slightly different, with one cart being noticeably better than the others, and one cart rather poor-sounding.  I do have a microscope, and I discovered that the poor-sounding cart had a much larger amount of glue holding the stylus to the cantilever.  I speculate that tracking was this cause of this cart's poorer sound.

For me the take-away lessons were easy:

A.) Carts are made, upgraded and repaired at the bench, where automation is less important to craftsmanship.  Significant variation should be expected, so develop a relationship with your vendor.  

B.) As money and time allow, be willing to experiment.  IMO, these unique boron-eliptical103Rs sounded better than the OEM carts. 

At twice the original cost, I was happy with both the sound and the 2x longevity.

I have moved on from these carts, but I am very glad for the experience.

Regards,