un-becoming an audiophile

@emrofsemanon that's pretty funny. I would say they also use their audio equipment to get rid of their money

Sounds to me like you have lost your passion for listening to great music.

Most of the artists who made the music were in every sense of the term "audiophiles."

@bigtwin 

I built the rack myself. It is butcher block shelving and black iron pipe. The pipe goes through the butcher block with a 1.5 inch piece of pipe that threads into each of the connectors. Most everything was sourced from Home Depot or through Amazon. I can give detailed info if desired through email perhaps. 

Whoever thinks this is a "hobby" has just been brainwashed by the industry.

@fbgbill  Nice rig.  I'm interested in your audio rack.  Something you built?  How are the pipe end connected to the wood?  I don't see any brackets.  I'm in need of some new shelving and that system looks very adaptable.  

I like erik’s suggestion of studying music history.  Focusing on the music and not the system seems like a sane approach to the problem.

i remember reading The History and Culturre of Drag Racing.  Aftewards when doing a smoky burnout I was able to enjoy the smoke and had less attention on the tires.

Do both.

Enjoy the music for what it is.  I still enjoy FM rock on a car radio.

It's also enjoyable to hear and feel the wood of a cello vibrating.

@bigtwin 

I totally agree with your perspective. An Audiophile does not need to have a lot of technical knowledge and I do not. Like you I read some threads and have no clue what is being discussed. I have a great system and get lost in the music every afternoon. I was really into the hobby in the 80's and sort of drifted away but got serious again about 4 years ago and could afford to buy within reason what I wanted with the "boss" approval. 

Makes sense. I find there’s a point where the focus stops being about fun and enjoyment and more of an itch to scratch. One thing to humble you is to explore the world of record producing and mastering. They control everything, it’s quite funny how we try to reinterpret their efforts. Still, they are fascinating and to see how this stuff is recorded is a good way to keep perspective. Secondly, there’s every recording ever made available to listen to! At little or no cost! Having spent thousands of hours looking for obscure music, now I can spend time doing what I could only dream of. I got the fancy system because my music purchasing budget dropped to nothing. If anything I’d focus on how to manage your journey through sound. We all seem to start with ‘good recordings’ but that’s not my preference. All recordings are good, it’s how we perceive the art of how the sausage is made. Every recording is a collage of sounds, manipulated and processed. Like a movie it can be dozens of artists trying to craft a meaningful whole. Exploring those choices and personalities gets me away from too much focus on the final mile. 

You might want to go down the path of legal weed while listening. The strength of the weed you can get today will remove all ability to be critical and just enjoy the beat. Just be careful as orange Cheeto dust is hard to get off the volume knob!

Forget it! It's impossible so get it out of your mind.

Gear matters... but the music is the reason it matters.

That’s like saying,

Food matters...but health is the reason it matters.

Of course health matters, but the means to the end — food, cuisine, the tastes, textures, how-to's, ingenuities, etc. — are all, also, ends.

Likewise, the means to music, gear, is also an end. That’s why we’re audiophiles.

Calling music "the" reason is a way of saying "gear doesn’t really matter." But it does matter, it is interesting and fun and engaging in an of itself.

Where does the impulse come from to insist that "the music is why everything else matters"? There's some really crappy, stupid music out there, and some really ingenious, effective, creative gear. Why one is the reason for the other eludes me.

Two thoughts.

Concentrate on becoming a musicphile.

Resolve you will NEVER change or upgrade any system component.  The emphasis on looking for faults in the system will fade.

At least on this particular evening, I truly believe that it was my love of hi-fi that prompted me to dive into music-making myself. When I was a kid I loved my records and hated my piano lessons in equal measure. In keeping with this, the moment my piano teacher quit on me in frustration, I stopped playing the instrument and went to the stereo, full-time.

I only got back into playing music when I got a guitar-playing girlfriend in high school. Suddenly, I was doing both with equal intensity. That’s yet to stop, this despite the fact I’m now, so to speak, a trifle elderly.

I now have a kick-ass stereo and a zillion records & CDs. I stream to break the band. I’ve got several excellent guitars, a very good piano, and a pretty good banjo. I sit at the piano and diligently work on my Beethoven and Chopin...along with jazz & blues. On the guitar I’m an unrepentant John Fahey/Paul Simon style finger-picker. It all, though, ultimately stems from the love for music that my audio equipment is ultimately, truly responsible for.

And oh yeah, I'm totally dedicated to my fiddle.

What I enjoy the most from my system is the push it gave me to explore music I might not have focused on. Gear matters... but the music is the reason it matters.

@petaluman yeah... good point.  Live music can also help one appreciate what one has at home... like when I was at a symphony and suddenly realized: Hey, this sounds just like my Heresy IV ...!  Gave me even more respect for the Heresy experience.

Also, I was watching I think it might have been a Audiophiliac video where he visited a gathering of "audiophiles" in some NYC apartment and asked the question "What is snake oil?" and one of the most telling responses was "It's all snake oil.  I don't spend money on gear any more.  None of it is real.  What's real is hearing live music, so that's what I spend my money on." 

i'm reminded of alan parsons' definition of an audiophile as somebody who uses your music to listen to their audio equipment. 

@all ....*S* We all seem to love music, regardless of what form(s) we consider that to be. Not so uncommon ground.

How and what we choose to enjoy it Best?
Whatever works to do so, iyho. *G* Or not so humble, but it’s understood. ;)

That’s the part that gets classified ’hobby’.

We just put the word in all CAPS, and have at it. ;))

Have fun out there...

This is a really good discussion. Very interesting takes from many folks. Especially like the thought of the system as room art @bigtwin.

However, based on the two posts by the OP, and putting them together it seems like their primary intention was to insult Amir as in Amir’s behavior is unbecoming an audiophile.   Anyone else see this or am I totally off base?  FYI - I’m not an ASR fan or follower. 

Isn’t it Audiophile in this site is define , someone who really spend good amount of money on their system? But barely have time to enjoy music but enjoy analyzing the system instead? I agree if you can’t afford it , you can still put up a good system  to enjoy music. My ELac B6 pair with my Norh leamp mono they sound good and musical.But those who have money likes to have the best, so they spend a lot on audio.

For me, I would have absolutely no problem walking away from this hobby. I can sell everything off and not blink.  However, I'm forever an audiophile. If I sit in front of tunes, I am keenly aware of soundstage, Imaging, tonal balance etc. 

I believe the best way to listen to music is with no stereo at all.  Go out and listen to live music.  You lose all ability to change or "upgrade" the SQ; you gain the immediacy of having the musicians right in front of you, and the community of sharing the experience with the rest of the audience.You'll find it easy to appreciate fine performances, whether through an overtaxed PA system or the most perfect system - just air and unamplified acoustic instruments.

It will also improve your experience at home.  You may often find yourself immersed in memories far stronger than anything any sound system can inspire in you.  You'll have a much better feel for the range of ways that music can sound, be heard & be appreciated.

Been listening to music for almost 60 years and the wide eyed boy in me has always loved new toys, I’ve been a fan of just about every new amp, new speaker, turn table or tweek that’s come along. So yeah, for me it’s a fun pastime.

I’m certainly drawn into the audiophile word more from the equipment side than the music side. I’m not particularly musical which may be why my repertoire of music is relatively small and I don’t actively seek out new music very often. I tend to stumble across it. 
 

Having said this, I can get lost in some music in a way that it’s almost as if I’ve stopped lost all together. The music stops and I realize that it’s now quiet. 
 

For the OP, do you have some music that sucks you in?  If so, what’s different about it?  Maybe try reading a book or playing games on your phone while listening to distract from being hyper-focused on the SQ.  

Look at it this way. Our systems sound so good that we’re inclined to listen to music we may not even like that much, provided that it’s well-recorded and has interesting sound effects. We would never listen to this same music in the car. The tradeoff is that some of our favorite music is not enhanced by a great sound system.

@jackhifiguy 

Or just put it away. If it doesn’t bring you peace, walk away. This may be you realizing you’re pursuing something that doesn’t fulfill you. 

Best wishes sorting it out- I’ve been there myself. Sometimes these periods cause us to reevaluate and refocus. It may very well be a blessing instead of a curse.

@speedthrills interesting suggestion!  my Heresy do help me quit obsessing because the music presented is just so damned engaging.  It's like a user review of the Forte IV, also, that I read on Crutchfield: "At this stage in my life I wanted "shut up and play your guitar" sound and the Klipsch deliver."

Or something like the Polk R700 also come to mind... a "done" speaker at $2000, easy to place, sounds great with anything, and as Andrew Robinson points out, a speaker that sounds so good that it poses a "philosophical question" (like you, the OP, is asking) about any desire to go any "higher."  Time to just enjoy.. 

And, I'll also plug Andrew Robinson for his thoughtful youtube and print posts about "overcoming the audiophile addiction"... he even bills himself as a "recovering audiophile," and although you can still see his enthusiasm for gear in his reviews, he does actively promote the idea that once you have something good then relax and enjoy the music it delivers rather than obsessing on the neverending and always-diminishing-returns chase for an elusive perfection that doesn't even exist.

Sure it’s our brains. Because once you have heard “it” you want more.

As Nietzsche wrote, "Without music, life would be a mistake."

as @fertguy sez...

Got mt first stereo at age 13. An 8 track player & radio. I hung the speakers on the wall of my bed room. While playing Three Dog Night one evening I found  The sweet spot.  That was it. I was hooked. That was in 1967.  Why ever quit..

buy a pair of klipsch. heresy or cornwall and you'll forget about nitpicking and will enjoy music again!

As I am getting old , there are fewer things that are going positive for me.
At last , I can allow myself to own a very good system. . That’s positive.

And by the way, I enjoyed in my youth, to sleep outside , on the ground , in a sleeping bag.
Not anymore ! A good mattress please…..

Here is a good example as to the kind of "audiophile/music lover" I am. For vinyl, I use two rigs:

1) VPI Classic TT with Lyra Kleos cart and PS Audio stellar phono preamp. This is for listening to about 20% of my over two thousand records which are of well above average to outstanding sound quality.

2) Pioneer PXL 1000 TT with Sumiko Starling cart and Puffin phono preamp. This is for the other 80%, records of average quality sound or worse. The Puffin simply allows me to make all the necessary sound adjustments to render these records into a much more pleasurable listening experience. And I know, for pure audiophiles, using a Puffin with all its digital "equalizing" features is a big no-no. But I could care less.

And that's why I consider myself an audiophile/music lover.

I enjoy music. I enjoy it even more on my audio system.

I watched the movie "The Menu" and thought it could just as easily have been a room full of audiophiles.

Good post. You're right. But it won't stop me!

Thanks.

it bears saying that playing with equipment is also fun

have said it many times here in various threads, there are numerous ways to enjoy any hobby, including this one

key is to be honest with yourself, be self aware, realize whether, how, how much you enjoy doing something (or if it has in fact become unenjoyable and/or a burden), then change course, alter behavior as needed to restore happiness as needed

we are the only stewards of our own happiness

Unfortunately, many in this pursuit tend to fall in love with the equipment, me included. The music tends to take a back seat. I get the post...but to make it stop, refrain from reading here, and also look away from any new reviews. Without discipline, it becomes a runaway train....with a one way ticket to the poor house.

there is a solid list of responders to this thread…that you might, MIGHT pay more attention to…. invite over… share some ancient tempo, capo, cord structure with…. that makes you weep….

It’s an addiction, buying new stereo gear.  Would I have been content with my Focal 1027 Electras, MacIntosh MA6900, Oppo universal disc player and Kimber 8TC speaker cables and Hero interconnects, all purchased in 2007?  They all sounded pretty damn good to me.  I enjoyed the music and didn’t think anymore about the equipment.  But as I kept getting Stereophile and the Absolute Sound, I did get hooked by the pretty pictures and reviews. Could the music sound even better? So, as an addicted consumer, I splurged in 2022 on speakers, cable, interconnects, integrated amps, CD players, DAC,  power conditioners and cords, Furutech outlets connected to dedicated 20 amp circuits – everything - and continuing into 2023 to achieve more “high fidelity” on the theory that I would better enjoy music enriched by this equipment.  Did I notice any improvement – sure. Worth the money? Well, debatable but you only go around once. But it’s about time to stop, be content with the equipment and enjoy the music.   However, if I ever hit the lottery jackpot, I will buy a bigger house in order to fit the Estolon top of the line  speakers in a living room driven by uber expensive gear and Siltech cables (I’m hopless).

i am retired..it’s ALL spare time……

like many things in life, it is incumbent on us (ourselves, individually) to not ’lose the plot’, ’miss the forest from the trees’ or whatever idiom you care to use

a great hifi is expressly for listening to music, for our enjoying music very much, casually or intensely, when we want, in our respective living spaces - that is why we delve into this hobby to assemble a system that produces recorded music with high fidelity

many good things in life can be misused, or bought for the wrong reason ... hifis and music included

Great post.

Personally, I don't belong in the music lover or audiophile category. I truly feel I enjoy a little bit of both. It's a matter of balance between the two. Pretty much like anything in life, nothing is black or white. However  I can respect the pure music lovers and their free wheeling behavior a lot more than the pure audiophiles obcessed with tunnel vision. But to each his own, whatever floats your boat.

@ghdprentice: Amen, brother!

@bigtwin: "an activity pursued in spare time". Music is to me "prime time", everything else done in the "spare time" that remains available. How anyone else cares to define "hobby" is immaterial to me.

".....for pleasure or relaxation." Music is to me far, far more than that. Of course I can speak only for myself.

Hi-fi a hobby? Sure, okay. Music? Not anymore than is breathing or eating. Does one get paid for doing that? No, but it is what keeps one physically alive. As the sign in the window of Music Millennium (a great record store in Portland Oregon) reads: "No music, no life." ;-)

I am an audiophile.

I have been one for over fifty years. I am attracted and drawn to great sound and music… the combination. I derive great pleasure from this pursuit. Each improvement that allows me to better enjoy music. Everything about this pursuit is positive to me. There are no negatives.

Now retired, I listen to music about three hours a day. I have to drag myself away as I must do something else. Every day, turning my system off and doing something else is disappointing. My system is the culmination of fifty years of effort, learning and the sound perfectly represents what I appreciate in music. I listen to the music… not my system.

@ditusa @yyzsantabarbara @bdp24 

The word Hobby as defined by the English Dictionary 

"an activity pursued in spare time for pleasure or relaxation"

As defined in the American  Dictionary 

"something that one likes to do or study in one's spare time; favorite pastime or avocation"

Unless you're getting paid to listen to music, I think you have a hobby.  Just saying..... 🤣

I have two listening modes. Critical listening and evaluation while working on system synergy. Then I switch that off and go into music listen mode. Practice often and you will be happier. 

Do you like what's coming out of the thing?  Does it make you want to put on another piece of music after you've finished listening to what you've just listened to? Do you feel a stab of pleasure and anticipation when you first switch the thing on? If so, sit back and enjoy yourself. Enjoy reading the audio press and hanging out on Audiogon. No need to suffer neurosis.

By the same token, though, if you're caught up in the hunt to perhaps derive still more pleasure out of the thing, keep your wallet primed and open. Indulge in the neurosis.  Just try not to go broke.

@yyzsantabarbara: "I never considered listening to music a hobby." Hallefreakinlujah! I can understand and don’t object to the audiophile pursuit being considered a hobby, but music? If that’s all music is to a person, well, I don’t know what to say. I’d rather be dead than deaf.

As for me, I feel a little differently. Do recording engineers consider auditioning and evaluating studio monitor loudspeakers a hobby? Of course not, those monitors are a tool required to perform their work. The search for playback equipment (the hi-fi system) that allows one to better appreciate and "become one with the music" is not a hobby in the sense that, say, building model cars was when we were kids (a thing I loved!). Hopefully I can say the following without sounding sacreligious: pursuing the assembly of a hi-fi to reproduce music is no more a hobby than is the study of the Bible (or any other sacred text).

It imo becomes a problem when one puts the hi-fi system above or before the music itself. The hi-fi’s job is merely to serve the music, by reproducing it as well as possible (given practical constraints). But I can still become enthralled when I hear great music coming out of the speakers in a restaurant or bar, or the speaker(s) in a car.

It’s all about the music!