Suggestions for a holographic preamp?

Your choices are within the realm of middle of the road sounding preamps. You want to look at the categories that define what you are looking for:

#1 Burmester. Also dCs and Roland with the right speakers. 

Holographic... immense sound field not bounded by walls or the room. These brands are in a completely different category. 

The new PS Audio PMG Signature preamp is excellent at $9k.  I spent a lot of time listening to one and was very impressed. 

I’d look at the Spatial Audio Raven, Aric Audio Motherload, Backert Rhumba Extreme, and Atmasphere MP-3.  I know Spatial and Backert offer a trial period, which is nice.  Best of luck. 

Thanks for the responses, and thanks in advance to anybody who wants to chip in. 

@ghdprentice - to me, 'holographic' just means a 3D soundstage where there is perceivable depth to the sound as well as width and height. My current Herron preamp does a great job with that. 

I would think one of the VAC Renaissance preamps might just do the trick. Get one with an onboard phono stage and you just might prefer it to your Herron.

@kofibaffour  It’s not that a good preamp is adding a 3D, holographic soundstage, ideally it just allows it to come through better if it’s on the recording.  Some preamps just do this better than others, and it’s the same with amps, speakers, etc.  For example, cheap solid state preamps don’t tend to be able to communicate a holographic soundstage as more accomplished preamps can  And yes, a good preamp will sound less holographic with a flat recording if that’s how it was recorded and if it’s truly transparent.  But I agree if a pre is artificially boosting this somehow it’s not a good thing, at least for me.  I just want to hear what’s really on the recording for better or worse although I know there are those who want a system that makes everything sound good.  To each their own. 

@kofibaffour with another “removed post”. I sense a recurring theme here…..

Audionet is often praised for it's holographic sound.  No tubes or tricks.  I have owned the BHK pre and would not recommend it. Others' experience will certainly vary.

The benchmark LA4 is totally transparent, if the depth is on the recording it is in the LA4's output.

This component is relatively inexpensive, about $3k, and can be auditioned at home for 30 days.

https://benchmarkmedia.com/collections/a-stock/products/benchmark-la4-line-amplifier

https://benchmarkmedia.com/pages/30-day-risk-free-trial

No harm in trying.

I have really enjoyed my Linear Tube Audio Microzotl preamp.  They just came out with the level 3 version.  I have a level 2 and have loved the resolution versus previous preamps.  I switched from 12SN7 to NOS 6SN7 and I thought the sound improved to another level.  

Seems “holographic” preamp means Sonics goosed up by tube midrange.  Maybe a CJ preamp?

I have had a very holographic experience with my Backert Rhythm. Well worth looking into!

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Seems “holographic” preamp means Sonics goosed up by tube midrange.  Maybe a CJ preamp?

@kennyc  No, that’s not it at all.  Midrange is tonality and holographic is soundstage width, depth, height, and image placement within and throughout that space.  Two totally different things. 

OP, 
 

Sounds like you may simply want a system that images well... not necessarily holographic. Holographic has such depth of soundstage and pinpoint imaging that instruments are suspended in three dimensions. So for instance an instrument can be suspended in space that takes up a two foot sphere located five feet off the ground half way back in the sound stage, the kick drums a dozen feet behind. Anyway, I have heard a number of these. I’d recommend hearing one, just to see if that is something you want. Maybe you do. The big Wilson speakers with high end solid state are good at this as are Burmeister.

My system has excellent imaging and natural / musical sound. Folks that have heard my system have commented that it has outstanding imaging. It is an Audio Research system. I highly recommend Audio Research preamps. Very natural, musical and great as imaging (speaker dependent). You can go used if you want to reduce cost. 

I don't understand.  Your current system provides a deep holographic soundscape so your preamp is fully capable in this respect.  You say you want to replace it, but not for sound reason and then you don't say what those reasons are.  So why do you want to replace your current preamp?

BTW, most rock and reggae are multitrack  recordings with synthetic soundscapes.  That can be pleasant and exciting, but really not holographic.  I think you want a vast and deep soundstage with good imaging.

Classe preamps I have heard do it well.  Schitt Freya is no slouch and Audio Research  very good also. Shout out as well for LTA.  VAC in your price range and always a contender. 

@onhwy61 - good question, and I've got a very strange answer. It's the remote; this ain't just any remote, this is a cheap piece of plastic that's 3 1/2 inches long and 2 inches wide. It weighs about as much as a cheap piece of plastic that size. It falls between cushions a lot.

I've never seen anything like it; I think I read on a forum that originally his gear didn't have remote, but his customers kept requesting one, so this is it; he's showing he was putting his effort into designing and building gear, not remotes for 'em.

Still, it's got 10 buttons plus volume up and down. But these are custom programmed and a universal remote will not work with the preamp. As of now, he says he can be contacted if one needs to buy a replacement remote, but when it's down to one guy and probably a limited supply of remotes.... 

So I don't need a preamp to better the performance of my Herron, just to at least equal it, but without me having to worry about going remoteless, and as often as I use the mute and volume controls, that would not do. 

@larsman 

I've owned both of the preamps your colleague recommended and I doubt either one would be the equal of your current preamp.  If you're interested at all in the Modwright units then look higher up the line.  The BHK is not only discontinued but noisy and finnicky about tubes. As the reseller of most PS Audio trade-in gear I'm sure they have a warehouse full at this point.  I would look at Backert and Linear Tube Audio.

Wyred4Sound STP SE would be my reccomendation.

@soix Thanks for the clarification, picked it up when Lampi was described as “holographic” so I associated with their tubes creating warmth. 

@jackd - Ah, I stated that confusingly, sorry - he's not a co-worker of mine - I don't work anywhere! - he's the rep at the Music Room who I deal with as a customer. 

@larsman 

No problem but my assessment of the two preamps having owned both for multiple years is the same.  If I had to chose between the two it would be the LS-100 but think there are a lot better options.  

I have gotten excellent three-dimensional reproduction of sound from my system, which includes a Rogue Audio RP-7 tube preamp.  I have read a couple of reviews of the RP-9 that say it is an improvement over what the reviews thought was the excellent RP-7.  The RP-7 is half your stated budget, and thr RP-9 is $7,500.  It would be worth an audition.

Why not just try a programmable learning remote?  I’d think it could learn your remote’s codes and you’d be all good.  Buy one from Amazon and if it doesn’t work just return it.  I’ve had good luck with Universal brand remotes in the past.

Room acoustics have more influence on stereo reproduction than equipment. But answering the question asked, the Jadis JP80MC is pretty good at reproducing spatial aspects of recordings.

The Sofabaton X1S is a great learning remote.  Once programmed your phone or tablet can also emulate the commands.   

At the Monies being asked for the EARS 868 in the Link, this model is more that worthwhile being investigated.

There is not too many that are going to be capable to compete with this Model, if the Synergy is on par with how I know it can produce an End Sound in a System it was demo'd on.

The Class of the MSB S200 needs something quite special as the deliverer of the Signal to be processed.  

I have the ModWright LS100 and it does the things you're looking for. It's probably pretty equivalent to the Herron you're using. It suffers from the same issue though. The remote is a plastic piece of crap. It works but I'd you're looking. For something more substantial with regard to remote you'll have to look elsewhere. 

Have a go for the ATC SC-2. Great bandwidth, no colourations, very lifelike, direct and 3D when in recording. Low output impedance so drives everything! Undervalued but really top of market. 

Aesthetix Calypso Signature $7K - reload with sexy exotic small signal tubes, end search & enjoy over many endless listening sessions with multiple Negronis.
Just my opinion... 

My Cary SLP05 with ultimate upgrade provides a very natural 3-D image in my system, right up there with any system I have yet heard. It helps to have excellent NOS 6SN7 tubes (in my case VT-231’s from Raytheon and black glass Ken-Rads as well as CBS-Hytron 5692’s). If you like listening to well-done live recordings of bands like Phish, Goose, etc. then I urge you to explore this preamp. 

@soix and @oddiofyl - That would be ideal, but as I mentioned above: 

these are custom programmed and a universal remote will not work with the preamp. As of now, he says he can be contacted if one needs to buy a replacement remote, but when it's down to one guy and probably a limited supply of remotes.... 

@rmdmoore - thank you for that - I'd like to hear more about that LS-100. I've gone on YouTube and Dan Wright has videos talking about the LS-99 and the LS-300, but there is nothing I could find on the 100.  I guarantee any remote it has is more substantial than this - I wish I could post a picture of it, you'd laugh - and it would probably be able to be programmed with a universal remote. 

Again, thanks to everybody contributing suggestions; I have a few thousand dollars at the Music Room from another unit I'm returning (not a preamp) and I'd like to get something new or used (whether in stock now or likely to be in stock soon) from them to apply it to. They do have a number of those suggested. 

Any thoughts on McIntosh tube preamps in that general price range? I've never owned any McIntosh gear but the descriptions of some of them on forums and reviews sound like what I'm after too, and some even have a DAC and phono preamp, which may or may not be up to how I hear what I currently have. 

Buying multiple backup remotes from Herron would be a solid option.

Another recommendation for the Spatial Audio Raven (yes I have one). Think there's (ask 'em) 30/60 trial period. Raven is a special Pre.

Also, can anybody tell me anything about impedance matching between pre- and power amps? 

@larsman 

Remote?  Just buy another one or two from Keith.  I have his ESP360 reference and it does everything you want.  My soundstage width, depth and height are incredible and the dynamics and detail I am getting are off the charts good.  I have owned a lot of the gear mentioned on this thread and no way I would change out my Herron for any of these.  My feed back is pushing 1000 on A-gon, bought and sold a lot over the years. I have Tron 211 and Audiopax Model 88 amplifiers for reference, mHorn Mummy speakers, Wavelenght DAC with Sonore Signture streamer and SonicTransport for server.  I did upgrade the tubes in the Herron to Sieman’s 6dj8 tubes and it definitely was a step up over the stock tubes.

Hey @larsman ,

I agree with @soix on this one.  A learning remote is programmed by the remote you already have.  Put it in learning mode and point your current remote at the spot they designate on the new remote and it learns the code (button by button).

TV remotes have unique codes by manufacturer which makes it simple just put in the code and voilà.  

If you are determined to get a different pre then I believe an ARC REF6 used fits the bill.  Yes, that's what I'm using and it is a wonderful big sound.

Regards,

barts 

these are custom programmed and a universal remote will not work with the preamp.

If it’s a learning universal remote it should be able to learn any code, custom or not.  If you like your pre it’s surely worth a try, and again with Amazon if it doesn’t work you can easily return it.  I’d try this one for 10 bucks and just see — my guess is it will learn the Herron codes…

https://www.amazon.com/Chunghop-Universal-Learning-Function-L336/dp/B07C97YBBC

@barts - thanks, but I specifically asked Keith Herron if a universal remote could be taught on this and he told me no, and I don't think it's because he wants to sell a few cheap remotes.

@cfarrow - yes, that ESP 360 is what I've got as well, and I upgraded the tubes via Brent Jessee. I love its sound, but I really hate that remote! I may try a few of these that have home-audition and see how they compare in my system and my listening environment. I will not be letting go of my Herron Phono VTPH-2, however! 

Also, can anybody tell me anything about impedance matching between pre- and power amps? 

In general you want the input impedance of the amp to be 10x the output impedance of the pre.  BUT, the impedance varies by frequency and may go higher or lower than the stated number, so to be safe I’d look for the input impedance on the amp to be at least 20x the preamps’s output impedance if possible.  In general I think this is more likely to be an issue with tubes than solid state.  Hope this helps. 

Link Attached 

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650228738-ear-yoshino-868-preamp-with-fabulous-phono-stage/

The Spatial Audio Raven is off interest to myself, I would really like to experience it in use, hence, no ears in front of it does not encourage me to strongly suggest it can make a very good impression as has the EAR 868 has in a system belonging to another.

Synergy is what really matters and this is only to be found through trialling different devices in the home system within the dedicated listening space.

Not one recommendation or suggestion of investigation is going to bring the impression Synergy can create for an End Sound produced as a guaranteed outcome.      

OP,

My recommendation is to try out Linear Tube Audio Microzotl. This is my pre-amp and for me, reproduces a holographic image well. As some had posted above, get their level 3 upgrade and it falls within your budget. One thing the Microzotl does that other Tubes amps may not (or may) do, is that it sounds like a cross between a Tube and solid state. I.E. It has details in the music and yet it has body on the instruments and singers. 

If you claim that your existing gear already has the ability to create space and dimensionality, then the Microzotl may be a possible candidate. Check out their website and see if the remote is up to your standards.

hope you get the right one. and please let us know what you get

@pindac - you are absolutely correct, which is why I'm soliciting many opinions as well as checking reviews and forums. 

@joeycastillo - MicroZOTL is one I'll be considering, and I see they have a 30-day home tryout. 

Spacial Audio Raven has a 45-day return policy. 

For new gear, Backert has a 14-day trial on a Rhumba Extreme 1.4, and PS Audio has a 30-day trial for the PMG Signature. 

I know you are looking for something different than this, but I had to throw it out there just because.  I have a 1992 Carver CT-17 preamp tuner with a sonic holography circuit. Bob Carver apparently invented an effect that he thought sounds better. It has an actual front-panel button labelled "Hologram." FWIW.

Thank you, @otimmons - all comments and suggestions are welcome - I always like to learn something new - and that's pretty cool about that Carver holography! 

My PrimaLuna EVO 300 did an excellent job creating a holographic soundstage, unfortunately I had to sell it due to a period of unemployment.

With your budget, i would suggest looking for a used CAT preamp. The newer the better. This preamp will give you the virtues you are looking for.

@daveyf - I've not heard of a CAT preamp - please elaborate? 

If I were the OP I would look for a used preamp.  A BAT VK 90t, Audio Research REF 6SE, or a Conrad Johnson GAT