Stereophile review of the new Wilson Watt/Puppy

I best get a coat on and check my mailbox...

I haven't read the review, nor have I heard the latest Watt/Puppy's but in true Audiogon fashion, it won't stop me from responding!  :)

Maybe he's really trying to say is to stick to the high quality recordings, which are typically Jazz and Orchestral, and not rock/pop so much.  

Ultra revealing speakers like Wilson can be a bit over the top with "hot" recordings.  

Maybe I'm completely full of it too - the choice is yours to decide!! Ha

I look forward to hearing these speakers however!

I heard these speakers about a month ago with angostino integrated and dcs streamer along with upper end audio quest cables, told it was about $150k set up, did nothing for me, system sounded nice but the speakers where OK, did vocals/jazz ok but it was just lacking realism

@ckr1969  Just curious how you know it was the speakers you didn't like vs the amp, room, source, etc.? 

@skinzy ive heard the dcs and agostino many times

When I get my Stereophile issue in the mail, I look at the conclusion of each piece reviewed and 99.999% of the time the piece they are reviewing is the best they have ever heard. Sometimes, in parts of the review they will have a few negatives but in the end, it’s worth every single $ that it cost and is highly recommended. Surprise, the reviewer claims it’s a major contender. For what, not sure, speaker of the year, best speaker for the money, your guess is as good as mine
 

@ckr1969 That's an amazing skill to be able to know how a component sounds and separate it from the others based on past experiences with components in different systems.  You must have incredible hearing and Echoic memory.

@ckr1969 Well, it’s consistent with the review being discussed, so not a bridge too far….even considering your snarky response. 

I stopped reading Stereophile several years ago for no particular reason, so haven’t seen the review, but I just ordered a pair of WWP after auditioning several other of the usual suspects (Focal, B&W, Sonus Faber etc.).

I listen to a wide variety of music (most everything but Country and Rap) so chose a few familiar musical pieces including Kraftwerk’s Tour de France. That sealed the deal. Holographic sound with tight, articulate bass.

I believe that these speakers will faithfully reproduce any genre of music put to them (even Country and Rap!). I wouldn’t have bought them otherwise.

Just stick with the Sabrina X , for 1/2 that cost has many trickle down technologies !!

@skinzy thanks, its a gift and a curse

I haven’t read the review yet.  But I can do one better as I own the new WP speaker and I’ve had them about 4 months.  Now I’m clearly biased but I can say that they play rock exceedingly well.  I play guitar and have a keen ear for guitar and guitar amps and how they sound live. The WP reproduce this very very well.  Bass is deep and very textured.  I love them for jazz and classical too but I mostly listen to rock of some sort.  They are highly revealing and will show poor recordings but I love listening to all genres and qualities of reproductions on them.  The one challenge with them is they are a bit tricky to get placed correctly.  That could just be my room but I’m still tweaking placement.  All in all I absolutely love them and they are a dream come true for me. 

@ritter06 Congrats on the WWP.  It's a great speaker and entry point in their line.

The Sabrina X is so incredibly good, IMO not worth it for the Watt Puppy. If I had the money, and wanted to punch higher I would go with the Sasha V or Alexia. 

I was blown away by the WP8.  I also auditioned a pair of Alexx V and XVS that day.  Using the same music but increasingly expensive Burmester pre and amps I found the WP8 sweeter sounding while still surprisingly resolving- as much so as the Alexx Vs. To me the bass was excellent and realistic. And there was a LOT of it as well. I didn't feel like a sub was necessary.

As always "Your results may vary". 

@yesiam_a_pirate I’ll have to give them a listen then. I still just cannot believe how good Wilson’s sound. To me it was a religious experience compared to what I went in set to buy (BandW 803 d4). 

Did the reviewer use the word "reticent"?  Because it means the speaker is restrained or holding back when it comes to pop and rock, as compared to jazz and orchestral. 

Doesn't make sense to me either as orchestral has a much wider dynamic range than pop or rock.

I listened to the V’s and WWP back to back- both sounded great. I would be happy with either but on that day the WWP’s sounded “better” (different rooms- but both nothing special btw- glass, open sided with no treatment ). 

YMMV

Too refined for rock music.

I can't afford them but remember what a stir they made when they came out, and maybe $10,000.  I thought Sasha Daw was the replacement for WP. Out of the loop.

I understand what he's getting at and see where he's coming from.

If you look at the FR you see that they have fairly smooth extension into the bass frequencies with the peak ~70Hz declining below that and from there up to ~500 Hz.  The extension works well with the suggested genre of music.  But nowhere do the bass frequencies exceed/meet the rest of the response.

For rock you want a solid bass between ~70-300Hz and omitting floor bounce, this portion of the band is going to be louder, typically by several dB, than the remainder of the response.

I listen to primarily rock and Wilsons never impressed me. No, I do not crank to 11 some JBL and rock is actually challenging for many speakers. Much easier to voice for high quality vocal with couple of instruments than to less than stellar recording of Zeppelin.

And they don’t seem to measure particularly well either. No matter what but $40K speaker MUST measure well.

@OP. Mr Colloms has long been a fan of Naim equipment. As you can see in the review, he started listening to the W/P with his Naim 250 but couldn't drive them with it. If you are familiar with Naim type sound it will explain why Mr Collom's was slightly critical of the W/P on rock music. Aewarren above has summed up why.

@aewarren 

Too refined for rock music? What does that actually mean? To me "too refined" means dynamically limited, amd Martin says that's not the case, hence the contradiction.

“Too refined for rock music” lol!!!!!

$40k loudspeaker should be able to play all music well, maybe some types better than other but should still be enjoyable with anything played on them

OP…. If you are confused by a hifi review maybe hifi is not a good use of your time and $

@chrisoshea 

I never said I was confused. I said that the reviewer contradicted himself. Maybe you're confused.

I've said it before; most of us buy with our eyes and not with our hearts. You would think we were Hollywood celebs at the Academy Awards complete with tuxes/gowns and repeat plastic surgery. The Jamie Curtises of the world are few and far between. This is particularly true of loudspeakers. We are all guilty of it, myself included. Who wants to live with something-within our control- that is esthetically unpleasing? The Wilsons look like ugly refrigerators to some, but to many they appear to be technical marvels. This has been the calling card for the most prominent speaker brands since the 70's when Playboy's adoption of high-end audio as a worldly man's pursuit emerged. 

These days it's the likes of Magico, Estelon, YG, and Acora. Not so long ago it was B&W, Avalon, Sonus Faber, and Wilson. The false premise is that technology is the critical factor when it comes to transducers-that cutting edge drivers, crossovers, and enclosures are the answer to all we are presently missing and searching for.

After 45 years in this hobby I have grown increasingly disgusted with Stereophile and its "house favorite brands". There was a time when if Krell came out with a new product it had to be reviewed, same with Atkinson's dear buddy Anthony Michaelson's Musical Fidelity products and.....anything Wilson. To my knowledge Wilson has graced the cover of Stereophile no less than ten times. And as someone else remarked already, 98% of Stereophile's reviews proclaim the product to be the best thing ever, much like their rival publications. 

Atkinson is a broken record when it comes to any tube amp and his proclamations that "it remains unknown if the reviewer loved this amp despite it's high distortion or because of it" and his sycophantic predisposition in favor of accelerometer-approved inert cabinets. He is at once an incredibly intelligent engineer and a dumbass as to the aspects of sound that can not be measured. Is there a point here? Probably not, other than "same old song and dance". 

You are so right about that @fsonicsmith , and I have been guilty of it as well. I clearly recall buying a mint set of JBL Array 1400 speakers that I thought I would like sonically (I couldn't hear them before buying) They had been well reviewed by Larry Greenhill and measured well, and I liked horns too, so it seemed like a good fit. On top of that, I loved the looks. When I received them, they were good, but to my ears not as good as my Klipsch Epic CF4's. I did sell them, but I kept them for a couple of months longer because of the way they looked.

@chrisoshea 

There is no contradiction.  I told you why he feels that way.  Whether you choose to accept it is another thing.

@fsonicsmith 

+1

If you pay for a full-page ad monthly, your products instantly get a 'product of the year' recommendation. I recently bought into this hype regarding the stellar review of Wilson's Sabrina X. I had money in hand and did a demo. Possibly one of the most uninvolving speakers I have ever heard. My dealer recommended I compare it to a pair of B&W 803D4s. The B&Ws were substantially better in every aspect. 

I did not have time to audition the Watt/Puppy, but I wish I did. However, a speaker in that price range should have no weaknesses! 

I learned long ago that when a reviewer mentions any aspect of the sound, the reality is much more exaggerated.

"A little warm" = dull

"A little neutral" = sterile

"A little bright" = searing treble

"A little reticent" = dead

We all hear differently and have our own preferences.  As it should be.  Some seem put off by a speaker you have never heard; maybe resenting its unafordability.  There are many successfully speaker brands giving everyone choices.  The magazines may be influenced by their readers who have made Wilson the leader in high end speaker sales.  I'm a Wilson guy having worked my way up through the B&Ws to the 800 Nautilus.  Current B&Ws are now better.  Then the Wilson WP7s charmed me.  Since then, three more pair from Wilson.

That said, my long time and highly successful Wilson dealer has had some custom Sasha Vs on order for some time.  He is a trained expert in speaker setup so great ears. They sell many high end brands, dCS, D'AG, etc. He has just cancelled that Sasha order for himself in favor of a pair of the new Watt/Puppy. Very similar sound for way less money and a smaller footprint as well. 

Your ears, your money comes to mind.

Enjoy the music.

Bob

This was/is pretty much my experience and take on the WWPs vs the other speakers I heard and the Sasha V. The new Puppies may cannibalize the Wilson lineup .

The Sasha's would be better for rock music (more bass where you need/feel it) and the speakers measure about the same otherwise, which one would expect as they use pretty much the same other components.

A WWP with a sub would probably be the best/most economical way to get the best of all worlds.

@ckr1969 

Couldn't one also use the same rationale to say that at over 1.6 million dollars, a Bugatti Veyron should be able to go off-roading? 

@toddalin surely you can do better comparison, Bugatti is a sports car, pretty silly response.

like I said earlier, at $40k they should be able to play all music, some better than others but at the end of the day all speakers should be able to play any music to a point, especially at $40k

According to many, they do play all music well.  You'll never know unless you go listen to them with an open mind mind.

When I heard them they were without a sub and I didn’t feel them “needing” one, as neither do the 801s that they will replace. That said I do use one- a VMPS Larger for very low bass energy that is only there on select tracks - and will do likewise with the WWPs. 
 

But if I didn’t already have a sub I don’t think I’d bother.

@ckr1969

At the end of the day, all cars should be able to get over a regular speed bump or up a gravel driveway, especially at 1.6 million dollars.

No one said anything about off-roading well, just driving along a typical unpaved dirt road with ruts and stuff.

I don’t have a problem with reviewers who gush platitudes, but I do question how discriminating they are when a new product arrives in short order, one that replaces the old model, and they then magically hear the improvements of the new model. What occurs now that made them unable to hear the failings of the previous iterations at the time of their prior review?

Well, that may not be all as sinister as it sounds. What I’ve been told is that the glossies select products after private demos, in-person show evaluations, etc. Editorial chooses products that then seem to have potential to be outstanding offerings of interest to the largest # of readers. So there’s a pre-filtering process going on. TAS & Stereophile can review only a tiny # of products that are released every month, so I understand why they would not want to waste space (or months of review time!) on components that are likely to be crappy. One might argue that it would do a service to readers to "warn" them away from crummy stuff, but it’s not hard to argue instead that the way these pubs select products is just as valid.

This is an explanation, not an endorsement. But I think you’ll appreciate what these pubs do if you approach them from this perspective.

Listened extensively to a pair of Sabrina's with an Aurender A20 at the 2024 Fla. Expo. I really enjoyed how natural and easy this simple set up sounded. The rep there played many requests, classical, Jazz and Rock. I felt that the Sabrina's didn't miss a beat with any genre. Dynamic and alive. 

I too read the article. Really didn't spark any interest in me. If a speaker doesn't excite me from the get go, (like my Volti's do every time), I'm not interested.