Seeking Advice to Improve My Audio System ($1000 Budget)
Hello everyone. I have started collecting physical media (mainly Classical Music, but also some Metal, and older singer/songwriter material) for a few years now, and have built up a collection that is mainly vinyl, but also some CDs. I have slowly built up a stereo system to support it. I am not very knowledgeable with audio equipment and feel like I am drowning in information, and so I have pieced together what there seems to be a consensus around with my budget. So far I have:
Audio Engine A5+ 150 W Speakers
REGA Planar Plus 1 Turntable with built in stage
SMSL PL200 CD Player
I use the RCA port for my turntable, and the aux port for my CD player.
Now I am wondering where I should go with my setup. I want my next investment to be around the $1000 range, but am not sure where to go with it. Should I get a woofer for the speakers and an external preamp for my turntable? Or at this price, am I better off looking for better speakers...or is there another weak point in my system? My main concerns are that the midrange and upper frequencies do sound muddy compared to other systems I have heard (but they aren't terrible) and while the bass isn't bad, it certainly could be enhanced.
As a final question, I am confused when it comes to the pre-amp. I don't quite understand how they work, and I am a bit confused and worried that I would run into an issue with my existing built-in preamp overriding an external one? Any advice?
The weak link is your powered speakers. I heard these at a show and found them somewhat lacking in sparkle—pleasant but lacking detail as you’ve noted. You will need a separate integrated (preamp and power amp in one unit) amplifier (with or without a phono amp built in) and new speakers. What cartridge are you using? |
Just the Rega Carbon MM that came with the table. It's the best sound I've heard produced by vinyl (but I have limited experience with it, I grew up with CDs and my last turntable was a cheap Audio Technica) I have heard it's difficult to swap cartridges on these things. You mentioned a separate integrated amp, would this automatically override the stage in my turntable? What is an example of one of these integrated amps? |
Long ago I owned Audioengine A2+ speakers as my main setup for almost 5 years. The top end is muddy and not clean as you describe. If you want to stay with a powered speaker the KEF LS50 Wireless II (active model) will be much better. Maybe you can get one used for $1000 - $1500. LS50 Wireless II | Best Wireless HiFi Speakers | KEF USA The LS50 Meta passive is also great and can be found for $1000 and under. However, you will need a good amp for it. PeachTree audio has some decent low-cost amps. Both combined would be under $2k and definitely sound better than the 5+ you have. For a really great BUDGET system I would get a $700 Schitt Kara F preamp | Schitt $2k Wotan amp | $1k Magnepan LRS+ speaker. My office system is similar except I have Magnepan Mini in a small space. The LRS+ plays in a bigger room and is a bit less clean on top as the Mini. The LS50 Meta would be amazing on this amp and preamp. The LS50 is going to have a slightly cleaner sound over the LRS+ and Mini but the Magnepan has the terrific WALL OF SOUND effect that is addictive. BTW - I repurchased the Audioengine A2+ recently, but it is only used on a desktop for computer audio.
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I recommend to get Wavetouch audio WT-95 which is the world’s best sound SACD, CD, FLAC, media player + streamer. Compare sounds: Original music vs. WT-95 vs. dCS Varese DAC (million $ system) Original music vs. WT-95 vs. dCS Varese DAC (million $ system) My 2 cents. I wish I knew below info at beginning of my audio journey 40 years ago. Then I didn’t have to waste my effort, money, and time so much. All audio systems in the world are severely veiled, noisy, and distorted. There is no audio system sounds close to the original sound and WT-95 is the closest (the most accurate) to the original sound. All audio systems (incl. million $ systems) sound/behave like the left speaker in below. Your audio system sounds like the left speaker Many people merry-go-round upgrade audio gears forever hoping their audio will sound satisfactory with next purchase but no one has done it. So, upgrade wisely. Alex / Wavetouch audio |
I think that you will get the biggest bang for the buck by putting the $1K into speakers. There are many other things to upgrade in your setup as well, but given the budgetary constraints here I would try to add the best set of floor standing full range speakers that $1K will get. Otherwise other improvements in your system will be hard to evaluate. |
I agree on the idea of better speakers. Even inexpensive integrated amps can, these days, do a great job powering speakers until you can upgrade them. Consider buying used and maybe local if you can. Saves on shipping cost and damage. One way to do that is to go here and add in your zip code plus a distance radius. Try sorting by price to find what works for you. Then look up the seller and see their rating. Correspond with them, and maybe have a phone call. Another way forward is to see if there is an audio club in your area. Make contact with members and see if they have a way that members buy and sell from one another. Friendly, local people are great ways to find your next speaker. |
It is tough to break away from active speakers on a budget, as the whole chain has to be replaced. Staying within your budget, here is a system that will be a big upgrade over your current setup. I have only heard ELAC speakers at an audio show, but I was always impressed with the sound, a great value. There are several models that will work for you, these have a front port which gives you some placement options. https://www.crutchfield.com/p_970DB62/ELAC-Debut-2-0-B6-2.html?tp=186 An integrated amp will give you the best bang for your buck. I restarted my audio journey with NAD, and it served me well. There are other options, but this is a pretty decent unit. It even has a phono amp built in which may be an improvement. https://www.crutchfield.com/p_745C316V2/NAD-C316BEE-V2.html?cc=07 And you will need some speaker cables, Blue Jeans has a good product: https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm These are all new products, you might be able go up the line with these brands by buying used. Check out hifishark for scouting used gear.
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Okay, I think after some digging and from some recommendations on here (thank you to @yyzsantabarbara for a great place to start, you made things a lot easier.) I think I am settling towards saving a bit more and going for:
A Kef LS50 Meta and a Hegel H95. I see endless debate about this being enough to power it, but from what I have read, it seems it would be. And I can always sell upgrade the Hegel in the future, which would pave the way for an upgrade for the speaker. I like the idea of not putting all of my eggs into one basket with a powered speaker.
I have read some say that the Kef needs a subwoofer to get the full range for classical music, and so I think a KC62 will be the the next upgrade for that, but it sure is expensive. Now I have seen some say that there the Kef LS50 is "basically worthless" for Classical without a subwoofer, but I think this is an exaggeration (and that seems common on these forums!) and I gather that although I might lose a bit of bass from my Audio Engine A5+, the bass will be more distinctive, and I should notice a fairly large difference even without the subwoofer.
What do people think of this solution? Am I missing a piece of the puzzle? The price of the Hegel and the Kef would be around $3000 (I think I can find the Hegel for $500 cheaper), does anyone have a strong opinion on there being a better complete solution for that price? |
At 1,000 bucks it is difficult to buy good system ...But possible... I am happy with powered Edifier speakers but if i had money i will buy better one for sure...( My Sansui alpha can drive anything but for now i dont want to invest 1000 bucks on passive speakers alone i am happy with which i could achieve as secondary system (speakers) versus my main one (K340) ) How much cost a linear power supply ? I own a Chinese one very good at peanut cost... I am happy with it if it goes on for few years as now... (No power button on/off i disconnect it at night but it is a better than a IFI linear supply i paid almost 3 times the price) How much cost a good purifier ? I bought a Chinese one which work better than my Panamax for peanuts... How much cost a pre-amplifier equalizer ? I bought a Douk T8 for peanuts How much cost an acceptable dac ? I bought one from Douk the Q11 ... Peanuts costs... Now , the main important part, any speakers even in nearfield listening need acoustic corner control... ( i use Helmholtz resonators i make with different size tubes and tune, others acoustics controls could be needed relatively to your room parameters) All this will be not satisfying without clean power and a purifier is not enough, i make my own grounding boxes for all pieces of gear even the purifier and the linear power supply...
I hope i suggested to you some research clues... Acoustics controls matter at any speakers price, grounding method matter at all price... Others things matter but i dont want to write a long post...
For the same price i also own my main system which is headphone (AKG K340) Sansui alpha amp and Hidiz pro 80 dac... because i bought all this some years ago the total price of my 2 system do not exceed 1000 bucks by much... If i dont count all the minerals i used in my grounding boxes and my other homemade tweaks... To create a peanuts cost acceptable system ask for much time and experiments...
Purchasing any system at any price is not being an audiophile but being a consumer we must study and experiment... Read about acoustics concepts.... And grounding boxes homemade design... Others will advise you to spend more money... It will be an error... Study first and learn how to make the best with a 1000 bucks system... Replace the speakers you own if you are not happy by low cost one but better one... Upgrading without studying and thinking is not good idea...
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I realized that I forgot to mention that you should add the KC62 sub to the mix with either the LS50 Meta or the Maggies I mentioned. The KC62 sounds great and is fast. It is not a must but when added it takes the system to a better full-range sound. I have not looked up the price of the Hegel H95, but I will repeat here that you should seriously consider the Schitt Wotan amp at $2k. It sounds as good as the much more expensive Hegels I have heard (with KEF Blades for example). It has tremendous power, and I strongly believe it is as good as 3 $8k amps I owned (and sold). It just needs about 2 months of heavy play for the top end to settle. Another amp that I loved with the LS50 Meta is the Benchmark AHB2. This amp can be gotten for about $2.5 or less. It is excellent with the LS50. This amp has a top end like no other. It is not warm-ish like the Wotan. Both amps I mentioned have a home demo period if you buy from the manufacturer. The Benchmark LA4 preamp is what I have in my top system. I ended up with this one after going through a lot of preamps (up to $7k). The thing I like about the LA4 (or HPA4) preamps is that you do not hear it adding to the sound. The Kara F preamp I mentioned before is a good budget preamp but it adds a bit of warmth. the $2.5k LA4 preamp is as good as it gets for my tastes. Again, there is a home demo period with this preamp. Here is a link to a post describing the AHB2 (I totally agree).
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Speakers and cart are typically the best places for upgrades. There's been lots of discussion about speakers (and associated amp) so far, but a stylus upgrade is low hanging fruit. The Rega Carbon MM is the same as the AT-3600L, and any stylus upgrade that will fit the 3600L will fit your Rega Carbon. |
A lot of folks here are ignoring your budget. I would suggest a good used integrated like the older PSAudio Spectral or the newer one that has the phono stage. For inexpensive speakers get the earlier used KEF LS50’s (not the Meta, much less & people dumped them to get the newer Meta). And wired, not wireless with good inexpensive cables like from BlueJean. The included DAC in the Spectrals is good. Forget the sub for now…the LS50’s will be fine for what you want. Believe me, I have done this in a moderate size space. A Project Phono Box or phono pre from Schiit is on the menu if you need it. And replacing your cartridge with a good Sumiko will help also. Don’t get too fancy and you can stat close to your price tange. I’d speak with the folks at TMR in Boulder. |
I owned a pair of the KEF LS50’s and they are awesome speakers, however I think that the H95 is a bit underpowered for them. They are a challenging load for an amp and require some current. Hegel is still a good choice, but I would go used and try to go up the chain a bit. A used Musical Fidelity M6si is a decent choice as well. |
@OP Carlyleciv - To answer your question about preamps in simple terms: the preamp is the part of the amplification chain that takes the input signals, allows switching between them and volume control, and passes the signal to the power amp, which is the part of the amp that creates enough power to drive speakers. Those two parts can be separated - pre/power, or integrated. Many integrated amps include a phono stage. This is required for vinyl playback because the output of a cartridge is lowere than that of a CD player and phono also requires specific frequency equalisation because of the way records are cut compared to CD. Your one K budget is tight, but you can get a decent integrated amp like a Rotel A8 for under five hundred dollars. It's a properly engineered amplifier that sounds good. As a few posters have said above, the Kef LS 50 is an outstanding speaker though it really needs a more expensive amp to drive it. But if you could find a used pair they would still be a good buy. Buying new, you can get something like a Wharfdale Diamond, along with the Rotel for within your budget and have money left for some decent speaker cables. If you can sell on your existing speakers, the next priority would be speaker stands, followed by an upgrade for the Rega Carbon cartridge. I used to sell a lot of these type of entry level systems back in the eighties, but the recipe of a Rega with a decent integrated amp and a pair of stand mounted bookshelf speakers still hasn't changed, both to deliver good sound in itself and as the first stepping stone on the path to even better sound. |
If you're unsatisfied with the sound your system is providing, yes speakers would be the most significant upgrade. Do you live in an area with audio dealers or with a solid craigslist / FB marketplace? If you really want to stay under $1000 and get the best possible bang for your buck, I'd highly recommend trying to find some used active speakers that are in your price range. The Focal CMS range are professional monitors but will accept an XLR or RCA input and will blow away your current speakers. I see them going for like $700 a pair for CMS 65s, the larger ones. These things will absolutely crush your current setup and if you boost the bass, they actually hit below 40 hz pretty solidly. Otherwise, some used active KEFs (meta wireless) or other actives could be a straight steal for you. Then buy a wiim ultra for around $300 and you suddenly have come into the 21st century with a solid streamer and super solid speakers. Best of luck OP! Don't think you need to spend insane money to get good sound. You just have to open up your search to used, or find local dealers that can give you solid discounts and trial periods on gear. Don't just buy something off the internet because people say it's good. Test it in your room on your system!!! |
$1000 only these days.....?? Step a) Your current speaker is terrible/terrifying. Move it into the garage or deck for casual listening with bluetooth or something. Step b) Get a pair of these Tekton Lore Ref speakers for $810. It is a 96db sensitive speaker with some good extension, clarity, midrange, etc. You will understand it better when you start listening to it. https://tektondesign.com/product/full-range-speakers/mid-towers/lore-reference/#color Step c) Get this fosi audio za3 amp for $150. Plug your cd player and turntable into it. Sum total = $960,
Step d) When you have a bit more cash later, get this subwoofer from verafi audio, verafi caldera 10 subwoofer for $200. Plug it into the sub-out of the fosi amp...and move it around in the room, till it clicks in place sonically. Sum total = $1160 Above mentioned steps should make your music a lot more enjoyable.
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(Not sure if you can see this if you're not a member of the Audiophile Foundation) We had a recent "$2000 Budget System Design Challenge", and the results may be seen at: https://sfaf.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=5&club_id=794405&item_id=115420& The rules were pretty loose, but they generally all include at least 1 source component, so the amp & speaker combos are at least in the kilobuck neighborhood. You might also consider something like the Parasound NewClassic 200 Integrated Amplifier; they've got a couple used ones at $599 at The Music Room (NOT to be confused with the Parasound NewClassic 200 Preamplifier). They just slid a 110 watt/channel class D amp into the 200 Pre case, so you get a full-featured preamp (MM/MC phono, DAC, subwoofer support, HT bypass, remote control, preamp out) plus power. That gives you plenty of flexibility, and you can bypass any function later with a better external unit if you choose. The current Parasound model is called the NC200INT, new at $899. The company was sold a couple years back, so I think this is mostly just a re-badging. Of course, you'd need to buy a pair of speakers, too! BTW, speakers are the most important issue. While I love the LS50s, I personally would never use them without subwoofing. Since I'm reluctant to get a subwoofer, I've always ended up with floor standers. Are your speakers currently on shelves, desktop, or stands? Are you willing to dedicate some floor space to them (whether towers or smaller speakers on stands)? |
it’s tricky because if you go to passive speakers, you would need an amp. You can get a decent vintage receiver for under a $100, on ebay, craigslist or shopgoodwill. I would go with Denon or Yamaha. You can’t really go wrong with it. But you can add Onkyo, Adcom and NAD to the list too. For speakers, again no need to spend a $1000. There are a lot of vintage speakers that sound great. Cambridge Soundworks, Celestion, Boston Acoustics, Monitor Audio, Paradigm, etc. The key is to find quality and avoid junk. People here spend many 1000s a year on cable upgrade alone. They can’t really make meaningful suggestions for a system that has no quality component (maybe your CD player is OK) especially the Rega 1 is despicable. I am saying this as a Rega fan, that version should not exists. (I am terrified by the Wavetouch Audio WT-95 idea that would "take" your $1000 and would leave with you where you are right now. And coincidentally, the person suggesting it is the person selling it. Ouch. No.) You can get great sound from vintage, quality components. Just do your research or feel free to pick our brains. Knowledge substitutes a lot of $$$ in audio. |
Re KEF and Hegel - no, not a good idea. Unless your goal is to spend many thousands and be done with it. The LS50 has a very unique sound, needs very tricky placement, and on the bright and overly detailed side. Which is exactly what the Hegel does, too much separation, too little warmth and fluidity. Together: bright, fatiguing, in your face notes, that feels like a cat scratching your side burns. Both the Hegel and the KEF are impressive and good value for the money. But you need to find out if your ear likes that type of very revealing, analytical, monitor sound. |
@gano from the additional reading and research I’ve done (and goodness much of this can be a time sink! You can get lost in the reading.) that seems to be the consensus, bright and fatiguing. I have come to love looking at the design of the Hegel amps, but I think I should leave them for a future upgrade.
I now have changed course, and coincidentally have come very close to one of the entries listed by @petaluman, which is to go Wharfedale Lintons+Yamaha A-S801. I have found a really good deal on this locally for under $2500 and with a 30 day trial period to audition them. From what I have *read* and looking at the range, it doesn’t seem like this would necessarily need a subwoofer. I am curious to know what you all think of this, particularly re: the lack of a subwoofer and the amp choice before I pull the trigger Regarding comments from @gano and @yoyoyaya on the Rega 1 cart, that definitely seems to be the next upgrade needed after this purchase. Frankly, I don’t think I want to keep this one and upgrade it, there is an occasional buzz/hum that sometimes bothers me, and I don’t like having an integrated preamp. I’ll be looking for a new turntable and cartridge after this, which I imagine involves being brave and learning about cartridge alignment, replacement, etc. I’ve spent a lot of time listening, reading and speaking with others about this hobby already (and will be putting a good chunk of money into it!), I might as well ’get real’ with it. I like what vinyl gives me too much to have a bad sound. |
re: Wharfedale Lintons+Yamaha A-S801. I have had both, not at the same time though. I did not end up keeping them so they didn't end on the top of my list. The Lintons are very popular and well reviewed. The Yamaha less so. For that price range, I don't think there are better values than Creek, Quad Vena, Mission and Arcam. Musical Fidelity is one price category higher but also terrific value. A 30 day trial is the way to go. Here is a web site for speaker options: https://speakerchoices.com/ I know it may be frustrating for you that you find a combination you like and people tell you to like something else. It's all subjective there are no wrong choices. Your ear is the smartest guy in the room.
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@gano I have come to learn that this is simply a process of acclamation and trial and error. Everyone has an opinion, some are good, some are bad, but the wide range of often contradictory opinions lead me to have a better knowledge of the names, brands to look for in the future along with a greater understanding of the audio equipment world, of which I knew very little about prior to a few days ago and now I know...well, a bit more!
Same thing happened with learning about classical performances, everyone has a different opinion about this or that conductor or interpretation. The large amount of different opinions give you things to listen for, and ultimately be the judge of yourself. It’s fun! |
For $1000 and a real step up. NAD 316bEE V2 $500 Schiit Modi DaC $129 if you want a digital source. and a pair of bookshelf or floor-standing speakers from KEF or ELAC. Crutchfield has lots of low price high value speakers in your range. You could easily stay around $1000 or go a little over and get better speakers. The other path is something like KEF LSX wireless. $1500
good luck |
1) Everyone here (and world) are listening noisy, veiled, bright sound audio systems, except me. They've heard these sounds all their lives. Your trial and error learning process will be similar to those people that it will be merry-go-round upgrades which takes much money, effort, and time. It can be fun some times but won't be fun more times when you are disappointed with your upgrades. Remember this. No one succeeded and satisfied and done with audio upgrade. 2) Why almost all women don't like their husbands' audio sounds? It's because non-a'philes (women) don't have the listening technique which converts all-around distortion noise to the all-around the listener sound, so called "immersive sound". Immersive sound is known as the best way to listen hi-end audio. I've always enjoyed imm sound before I have my current natural sound system. 3) There are different ways to achieve the immersive sound hearing mode such as dilating pupils, watching hard (like eyes out) between spkrs to be sucked into noisy sounds, changing to blur eye vision, disconnecting nerve between eras and brain, etc. This is very hard to do and a'philes fall asleep in few minutes in immersive sound. 4) Bad audio sound (immersive sound) is health hazard. I don't like to do IS anymore since I have the natural sound system. But I have to do it to hear audio sounds (in car radio, in church, speakers everywhere). It's bad feeling and it actually hurt my eyes and ears physically. And I believe the bad audio sound is one of reasons for more Tinnitus, watery constant dilated eyes, itch ears, dementia, etc. Natural sound wan't avail before and people had to hear un-natural audio sounds all their lives. Now the natural sound is avail and you OP can choose a different audio journey from others. Alex/Wavetouch audio |
I hope you have an opportunity to go to stores, shows, other homes (is there an audiophile club in your area?) to hear a broad range of speakers. The fact is that not everyone wants the same things from their sound system. When I first started in this hobby/lifestyle, I had a friend that was a drummer. After listening to every speaker he could find in the area, he bought his dream speakers and they are truly legendary - the Rogers LS3/5A. They're still in production ~50 years later. They're also tiny standmounts, use a 4.5" woofer, and feature a well-designed bass "hump" to get semi-decent low frequency extension. However, what he wanted most was speakers that imaged properly and I have yet to hear speakers that I would swear better the LS3/5A in that aspect. Most speaker makers will sell 1 or more standmount and tower type speakers. Many of the larger, more established brands will have more than 1 line - reference and standard, maybe even home theater or wall-mount variations. For example, KEF has Q ("affordable Hi-Fi"), R ("performance redefined"), Reference ("detail remastered") lines, plus more. The LS50 is not part of any line, as it's too refined for Q, and lacks the bass performance required of an R. While you might not end up preferring the KEF sound, hearing comparable speakers from the Q and R ranges (or any other maker with a similar model profile) might help you decide how far up-market you need to go to be satisfied. |
OP, I'm glad you decided to do some trialing instead of just purchasing something based on someone else's experience. I highly recommend you start looking at used components as well though. A new system is going to cost twice as much to get the same value. And actives will keep you from going down the amplifier rabbit hole. Just my two cents. Get something that's within the last 5-10 years old and try it in your system. Best of luck to you! |
If 1k speakers, the Chesky Audio LC1 bookshelf speakers are a sonic bargain. |
Try to find a used pair of Tyler Acoustics or Fritz speakers within your budget. Tylers are often available used for less than $1200 and they will smoke any $1000 speaker from a big name like KEF.
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650165989-tyler-acoustics-u2-coax-monitor-pair/ Other than speakers, the best value upgrade would be to invest in room treatments, if you haven’t already.
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I saw no mention in your post of room treatments and speaker placement. Don't do anything until you've done that properly. If you still don't like the sound after that, then those speakers aren't for you. A great room setup can fix a lot of your issues, but a bad room setup will ruin even the best speakers you can buy. Laugh at the people telling you to buy new amps or cables. Their primed confirmation bias is blinding them to the reality of the science of sound. |
It can always be rewarding to wait and save up more money to get higher end components and speakers in the future but if your current budget is $1000 and you are eager to upgrade now there are some good choices out there for new budget Integrated Amps by NAD, Yamaha, Rotel and others for around $600 that would include a phono stage and possibly a DAC and you can get a nice pair of bookshelf speakers on the second hand market for under $500 like the Monitor Bronze 100's and you have upgraded your game near your current budget with something you will enjoy for the next year or two until you are ready to take the next step. |
Yikes...so many conflicting opinions and some frankly pretty weird posts. OP: I hope the one thing that comes out of this for you is that decent audio is more of a process than it is a stopping point, and that you will need to find gear that is synergistic and compatible and also that suits your preferences. My suggestion would be to look at the used market and be flexible about brands and models. Be opportunistic rather than having a narrow specific objective. Besides, the pieces you target may or may not sound good together. |
