I’m really happy with my system. However when a technician, who is also a salesman, came to my house for a stereo repair he complimented my set but said it would sound a lot better if I switched out my Benchmark AHB2 amp (which I think is great) for a Pass 30 wpc class AB amp. He offered to let me hear that amp in my system so that I could decide for myself (at a fee of $300.) The only problem is he doesn’t have the 30 watt amp in stock but would have to demo the Pass sound with 60 watt monoblocks. He assured me that with my very efficient GoldenEar Triton 1 speakers the 30 watt amp will almost have the the same quality.
Do you think I can honestly judge how the smaller amp will actually sound? Or should I cancel the demonstration (and save$300?)
If they are that confident that it will sound better, let them get the one they recommend and bring it over. Hearing a different amp is of no value. I assume this is an expensive amp. I had a guy tell me that a tonearm would be a huge improvement for me, installed it on my turntable and said if I wasn't blown away, he'd refund my money (not store credit), He needed business, and I didn't think of the upgrade. I usually do smallish incremental improvements that I can hear.
He was right on the money! I was blown away, and all I risked was my time and aggravation of driving an hour up and back and waiting for him to remount the cartridge and put the arm on. Cartridge took longer than the arm.
Why can't you bring an amp home and install it yourself? It should take a couple minutes to plug in the cables. There are places that will offer a money back refund if you pay shipping back to them. TMR for example....
Watch out for the upsell. Where he gives you the 60 watt mono Blocks and then after you are impressed, admits the 60s do sound a lot better than the 30 watt, and since you already have them at your house and all hooked up….let’s make a deal o the 60s. You’ll be much happier. Right
I certainly wouldn't want free in-home audition or even extensive at-store audition. I believe, dealer's time and effort should be paid for. Question is how much.
This is a response to JFRmusic’s post. Yes, I’ve been able to demo a component in-home “for free” with the set-up you mentioned….and then subjected to incredulous looks by salespeople when returning the item and informing them it didn’t float my boat. This particular incident happened about 40 years ago, but I still remember feeling embarrassed and a little guilty returning the item. From a dealer’s prospective time is money not to mention that the item, with each demo., has some additional wear and tear that it didn’t have before. A nominal charge for demoing seems more than reasonable under the circumstances. This way, everyone is happy (perhaps not whole but at least a little wiser). The customer, while not ecstatic over forfeiting some $ is at least not obligated to spend for a full purchase for a component that didn’t meet his /her expectationsand the dealer, while disappointed about not making a sale at least recuperates some $ for his efforts.
I respect rvpianos opinion to decline the offer (this scenario obviously didn’t work for him) but I really believe this is a viable way of handling one of the more difficult problems with hi-end audio purchases and I wish more dealers would offer this service.
1) Your Benchmark is one of the best amps ever made and has received rave reviews across the board. It's going to be hard to beat.
2) If you have the itch to experiment with amps I would suggest buying a used tube amp so that you have the chance of getting something that sounds more different. Your Golden Ear's are suitable for tubes (they have good sensitivity and a fairly flat impedance curve).
If you buy a used tube amp you can keep it as long as you want and if it's doesn't spew fairy dust out of your speakers you can sell it for about what you paid for it.
Dealers I work with will let me take home equipment for free. I just give them my Credit Card number where they can charge me if I don’t return the item. Never heard of a charge just to demo.
I agree with your thought to shun this deal....but you can still explore Pass....easy to bring your 12.5 pound Benchmark to your Pass dealer...while there is some disagreement here on some issues, there appears to be agreement that Pass and Benchmark sound quite different...without the expensive hard sell from the tech/owner, it just may be fun to explore Pass and other amps, especially with your amp so easy to carry around...shun the deal but give in to your curiosity !!!
You've mentioned you want to hear the Pass sound. Why not just go to a dealer's showroom and hear a Pass amp? Surely, somewhere in NYC there is a Pass dealer with amps in stock. Road trip! BTW, I have an XA30.8 and love it, but moving it around is a pain.
Thank all of you who have taken the time to post and give me doubts about this transaction. Especially to Omegga, who has heard and liked my system. You all may have convinced me to shun the deal.
Honestly, I wish more dealers would offer this kind of service. I would gladly pay the $300 to hear a new component in my home (with the understanding that the fee would represent the extent of my obligation should I not decide against future purchase). How many of us have bought a component and then determined it’s not what we heard at the dealer? Seems like a small price to pay.[
@rvpianonot talking you into this deal. But the XA30.8 is a great amp and with your tube preamp you will have fatigue free listening. If you can get a hand setting it up, buy used. The XA25 should be great as well. I respect benchmark but am not a fan of their house sound. It’s a personal choice.
The XA30.8 operating temperature is about 104-107 degrees Fahrenheit. If heat is a consideration. Other than that I can’t think of any other drawbacks. Don’t worry about power cords. Whatever you’re using on benchmark should port over just fine. If not then the stock cable will hold you over as well.
Most shops that do offer home demonstration will do so only with customers they are familiar and can trust. They will help you load it in your car, but beyond that, it would be a big imposition to expect them to set up in your home on the hope of a sale. The crediting to your purchase price the fee for the demonstration is what I expected. The question is whether $300 is reasonable. If they give you enough time to seriously audition the amp, I think it is reasonable. Ideally, they would leave it for a few days and return to pick it up.
Pass makes some very nice sounding amps, and the smaller amp you are considering will probably sound very similar to the higher powered amp if your speakers are efficient and the two amps have similar topology and are comparable in quality level. I’ve even heard comparisons where the lower-powered amp by a particular manufacturer sounded better than its more powerful sibling.
Jetter is correct. This is strictly a class A pass amp. It will sound very different from your benchmark. For better or worse will be subjective. Good luck.
Wait until they or someone else can offer you the exact amp he’s recommended. It will sound different than the one’s he’s actually recommended. Find other opportunities to listen to the amp he’s suggested in home or in store or at another customer location.
In any case, don't forget that the amp should be fully burnt-in before any serious audition. I don't know about Pass amps but probably hundreds of hours. And power cords matter too, along with all the cables. This would be quite a purchase, so everything must be as it should.
The fee to bring the amplifiers over to audition might be worth it if you can leave them in your system for a few days to get a sense of how they will sound in your system. The fact they will deduct it if you buy is fair in my opinion but I am a Pass owner, an Aleph 5, 60 watt per channel class A that sings devine with my Watt/Puppies.
Personally I would give it a shot, the only downside is you might want them and it is a big purchase but I have a feeling you will enjoy them quite a bit.
If you’re happy with your system, then your reply should have been no thank you, I’m happy with my system. And unless the $300 would go towards a purchase, that is an obscene amount of money. Either way, the guy was way to pushy for my tastes.
@rvpiano , I can only speak for myself, but I would not pay $300 to audition the monoblocks that were not the ones that I was going to buy. Honestly, I think I would have a hard time seeing my way clear to paying $300 to audition the equipment that I was thinking of buying. However, I assume that in the event you did buy the equipment that you were auditioning the $300 audition feen would come off the price?
I think I got the impression from one or some of your posts that you live in NYC? And with no sarcasm intended, I suspect things like dealers bring equipment over to a clients home for audition is probably different there then in other places?
It's one thing if you were actively looking at that amp to purchase - even paying $300 for an audition could well be worth it to you compared to buying, not liking it, then having to resell.
But then you weren't actively looking. There could well be other amps out there for you to audition that won't cost $300 to listen to, and that you may like equally well.
As long as your willing to lose the $300, go for it. That could well be a bargain compared to not listening to it and having the "what ifs" keeping you awake at night.
But you could also check around for other shops that may have a loaner program
To those who say (some in a snarky manner) that I am being tricked into this purchase by a diabolical predator, let me say I am aware of the seduction. Nobody is more gullible to suggestion and at risk for deception than an audiophile. That’s why I created this post, to see what others had to say. And I must say there are a myriad of opinions.
What is driving my interest in now trying out the amp is the posts of those who believe it will make a big difference in my system. It’s enough of a percentage to convince me to at least see what it’s like.
All the Pass XA amps are rated at what their Class A power is, but all put out much more when when they shift to Class AB ...the meter actually only tells when the amp switches from Class A to AB. The X series amps are rated as Class AB, but the first typically 10-25 watts are Class A...
For the $300, he was bringing over a pair of mono amps....2 X 100 lbs. A lot of work, imo. Not fair however, because the mono blocks would have enough characteristics to be different than the single chassis amp. I had an XA 25 here on loan from a friend, and I enjoyed my LSA GAN 350 (which I modified a bit), more. In fact, he sold it and got a pair of Gan Class D mono amps (with the tube looking things, lol), and have not looked back. Meaning, it is up to the individual, and what their tastes and likes are. I happen to have liked the Benchmark pre, but not the amp, in my system. I'm kind of thinking like Ralph of Atma Sphere, that Class A power amps are nearing their time, as well as tube power amps (tubes for me ended many years ago). It is all up to those characteristics in amplification (and any components) that the listener enjoys. My best, MrD.
Only one day in and the "really happy with my system" is now looking to be
"really happy with my system" ?????
The Technician being also what seems to be a well honed Apex Predator new how to cast bait / bait the trap and lure the prey in.
We have choice, and with such, an external influence is a critical part of the controlling factor, resulting in the pain of decision making that follows.
Aristotle Wrote on such a subject
'It is clear that choice is neither simply wish (boulēsis) nor belief (doxa), but belief and desire (orexis) together when as a result of deliberation they are brought to a conclusion.
I would like to add this to my comment...A "Class A" amplifier, compared to Class A/B,even as good as the Pass might be,is a whole different animal..IMO Class A solid state is ABSOLUTELY at the pinnacle of solid state amplifiers..They do indeed offer EVERYTHING you read a good tube amp offers,including increased staging & imaging,the naturalness of tone & the organic fundamentals of notes..
The big mono blocks are probably biased to run Pure Class A up to a certain point,likely the first 20 wpc.or so,meaning it is likely you will hear the pronounced difference Class A makes..If I were you,I would follow the advice to take your amp to them & spend some time comparing it in their shop BEFORE commiting to the $300.00 in home demo..Also note,as already mentioned,you can save a LOT of $ looking at gently used & IF you move towards Pure Class A ,there are options to Pass Labs from Sugden,Musical Fidelity & Luxman that offer superb value for $ you might want to explore before dropping big $ on a new Pass....
maybe for starters bring your easy to carry Benchmark to the dealer and do some free testing...just to get a sense...I much prefer Pass to Benchmark...but wouldn't pay $300 for an audition...there's gotta be a better way...
Right, you must audition the amp they want you to buy. Another option is to buy one used as Pass does very well on the resale market (the Benchmark does too).
I am really conflicted now. Evidently weak-minded. When I read the negative posts I was all set to ditch the audition. Now that I read positive remarks, I’m not so sure.
I guess I’ll never know until I listen to the Pass sound, even if it isn’t the same exact amp. If I decide to buy it the $300 will be deducted from the cost.
If $300 is not an extreme burden for you, I'd give the new amp a try. The fact that you are very happy with the Benchmark doesn't mean you couldn't be "happier".
I'm ecstatic with my B&W 804D3 but would love to hear the new SVS Titans in my system. Just part of my "Explorer" DNA. Also: Pass XA-25, Jadis I50, Wireworld Eclipse 8 speaker cable, Mola-Mola DAC, etc.
Since they came out to provide service for you and apparently were competent, you may need their services again in the future. I wouldn’t burn the bridge but simply kindly decline their offer. Paying to hear an amp(s) that isn’t the one you would be buying seems a total waste.
Now, if in the future they do have the amp you would consider, the $300 question would need to be revisited BUT whatever audition fee you agree on would need to be deducted from the sales price if you buy.
As we age and lose some mobility we are forced to rely on others more. It is reasonable to pay for help provided but this one makes zero sense. Bringing you a 70 inch tv to see if you would like to buy a 55 inch one later benefits them a bit ($300 minus labor for their employee, one trip or two?). I don’t think it does anything for you except prime you to pay more than you want (up selling). The sales manager is probably hoping you would go ahead and buy the monoblocks so you’re doing the right thing in asking for advice. Don’t burn the bridge but don’t trust too much either.
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