Power Amplifier - Maximum Resolution & Detail!

@jkhjr

Excellent comments!

Pointing out the essence of the differences between some high end brands and of course Magico are the ultimate microscope through which to hear differences. Also, showing how matching is critical. 

So many great electronics in this post! I think I counted over a dozen brands.  I probably heard half of them.

i did an in home test with accuphase v boulder v ch precision.  Magico speakers.  I used to have Sonus Faber.

The night and day difference between Accuphase and Boulder was astonishing.  It’s like I changed out every part of my system.  Accuphase was UBER warm and Boulder was UBER open and detailed.  It really is a personal preference as to what you want music to sound like….and your musical tastes, room, etc.  for me Accuphase didn’t show the Magicos transparency and openness and the Boulders were fatiguing and a bit bright….though with my Sonus Faber Boulder was perfect!

For my Magicos (M6 + SSubs) CH Precision was easy choice of the 3 as it was somewhere in the middle of the accuphase and Boulder…musical, detailed, a little warmth,

if you want uber detail, punch, power, dynamics, Boulder really is a remarkable brand.  CHP is more laid back then Boulder, doesn’t have the limitless power but is can be a bit more musical depending on your other components, etc.

drbay,

I just purchased the SIM audio 861 amplifier all I could say is wow I listened to the Burmeister 216 and 218 which are 50 and $70,000 Canadian and the same audio 861 sounds better the background details those little fine details you can hear a lot clearer with the sim audio 861 and it's only 22,000 US or 29,000 Canadian, the MDCA circuitry that Sim has developed is a real game changer it's going to piss off a lot of companies that make real expensive amplifiers.

@mapman 

Because GANFETs have no leads on them and are quite small, they allow for reduced noise from the amplifier module. This is really important; its not good enough IME/IMO to just be able to meet European Union radiation directives (required for the CE mark) or similar; the amp really should be quite a bit quieter than that so switching noise doesn't mess with other equipment in any way. If the GANFET amp is done properly it can be so quiet that class A or AB amps actually radiate more noise.

I am on the same page as @atmasphere regarding Class D amps opening up new possibilities. I have had a Hypex ncore based amp for a few years that cost-effectively broke new ground in regards to detail as well as other aspects of good sound compared to my prior recent amps.

Currently I am in early process of trying a newly available Class D amp that uses GaN transistors. GaN has physical properties that open up new possibilities in regards to Class D performance overall. Early results with this amp have been very positive. Most detailed, dynamic and musical with no fatigue. The sound seems to literally light up the room! I’ve never used that analogy before. Stay tuned!

@erik_squires 

+1

I was thinking about this today. Emphasis on the details indicates you are building a microscope as opposed to a music delivery system. They tend to be very different things. 

Oh, almost forgot.  Ayre.  Very different sounding, I like them a great deal.  If you want an amp that sounds different, almost like it sucks noise out of the room, try one.

I don’t think all amps sound the same, but usually when I hear about reviewers hearing "things I never heard before" it speaks to the device exaggerating one tonal range over another. Especially true with speaker reviews. This is a never ending cycle, of chasing more details and more things you never heard before, sometimes leading to a particular sound that is so far from neutral it’s hard to hear. Sometimes that is good for listeners who prefer lower volumes.

My point is, be careful chasing details. In terms of speakers that sound remarkably better, D’Agostino, Vandersteen (yes, they make amps) and Luxman are among my favorites. All have glass smooth mid to treble, liquid like midranges and great bass.

From my very poor and now dusty memory, Coda had extension but never had that relaxed feeling of the others or a great tube amp. My memory now is hazy and I encourage listening.

Coda CSiB (the amp part is essentially Coda no.8) has tremendous clarity, speed and musicality. One of the best values in high end audio and one of the best amps I ever owned. 
 

SimAudio Moon amps are excellent as well. And so are the Boulder amps. All in their own price and performance categories and of course matching is critical. 
 

@thieliste

+1 not my cup of tea either. But good choices if it is.

Boulder, Soulution and CH Precision come to mind in this category.

Not my cup of the tea but if you want resolution and detail doesn’t get any better than this.

You should definitely listen to the new SIM audio 861 amplifier it beats amplifiers costing two to three times the price, the new MDCA circuitry that they have developed is a game changer, It's the first a/ab amplifier that I know of that uses no local or global feedback most other amplifiers still use local feedback which affects the sound, I have no doubt that this amplifier will beat other amplifiers in the 40 to $70,000 Canadian range.

Despite owning two great sounding tube power amps, I chose my first solid state amps in 50+ years.  The Westminster Labs REI.  Not inexpensive but superb powerful amps at low weight, warm only and no maintenance requirements.  No feedback/impedance problems over the full frequency range with zero global feedback, Class A (or whatever the manufacturer says it is).  

burmester 218 is the best amp i have owned

I will second the Ayre recommendation.  Excellent electronics!

I've had wonderful experience with the Ayre KX-R Twenty preamp paired with the Ayre VX-R Twenty Power amp. Incredible resolution with a rube-like presentation.  I've yet to hear anything since acquiring them 6 years ago to suggest an upgrade.

ModWright KWA 150SE has been the best for detail that I have heard though have changed speakers, moved to lowered power options since owning one, and have not been in search of even better detail.  Definitely no harsh edge to accompany the resolution.  You can get 2 to run as monoblocks and have 550 watts with your 6 ohm speakers. 

Krell fits the bill, a good recommendation! Don't forget about the Marsh amplifiers, definitely known for their high resolution without brightness. No wonder you don't see them for sale anymore.

I have a pair of Krell EV 600's that push my Wilson Maxx II's.  They're class A bias so they get hot, but boy how they make my Wilson's put out!

KRELL  

What kind of speakers do you have?  I would imagine speakers could make a difference.  

Unfortunately all opinions are completely biased, and based on limited exposure. Mine is no exception. Warm means dulled highs, a common preference. I don't go by gear I have not had in my system because only the amps I have had in my system prove themselves. IOW, bright speakers may make a warm amp sound detailed under the right circumstances. That said, limited finances have limited my knowledge. Down to the point, John Curl's amps, Halo amps, are hard to beat and are the JC5 is the best amp I have heard in my system. My system has modified gear, the Lampizator DAC in particular went from impressive to amazing after using an adapter to change the tube to a 6SN7, and bypassing the coupling caps with V-Cap ODAM, AND Teflon CUTF caps in the Amber 3, and in the Don Sachs DS2, I bypassed the ODAM caps with CUTF caps. Source is a computer, and speakers are Caladans. One Caladan owner had previously owned Quad ELS57s, a compromised speaker, but still one of the best sounding speakers in many ways that I have always owned. Bass and volume doomed them in my system, but Caladan addresses that and more.

Simaudio is great, it always impresses me at Axpona. They give incredible detail, tonality, and midrange with Wilson Sasha. I have Sasha DAW and Hegel 590, very detailed high frequency, very tight clear base, but midrange is not matching perfectly. My next upgrade will be Simaudio, there is something special about their products. I prefer to Dan Dagostino. 

Bel Canto Class D range punches way above their price point....a nice used one is a great way to start.

If maximum resolution and the best circuit design is what you are after, perhaps consider a power amplifier from Gilbert Yeung. No one makes a better power supply and every one is hand built to order, so even if you have any special requests, they can be accommodated. A base set of 150w into 8 ohm monoblocs (300 into 4) would be $14k. 

CH Precision M1.1 did exactly this for my system. I was not expecting such a dramatic improvement with just an amplifier change, but it was there.

@deep_333 My #16 is likely a little less detailed than the 150 and 250. Doug said the 150 has some newer electronics that affect the top end. I think similar to the CODA S5.5 amp (mentioned above) in that aspect.

My #16 works great with the NS5000 in almost all respects, except that it is not an uber detailed amp (some people think it is). I think we maybe after the same type of amp for the NS5000. Since the speaker sounds so good (coherent), I want all the details in the recording to come out of the speaker. That is where my interest for the SimAudio North Collection comes from (an uber detailed amp). 

Doug said that the real magic comes from the $8k Voltage amp that is hooked up to the 150/250 amp. That cannot be used for the #16 amp.

Destination HiFi in LA has the 150 for demo. I never made it down for a listen.

@yyzsantabarbara , I'll get a hold of the dealer on the Coda 250...give it a shot.

@mbmi  I heard the AVA NP-1 at AXPONA and the system sounded sensational especially factoring in the cost. I own AVA M225s, have you compared the NP-1 to M225s? Would you disclose (or message me) the other amps in your stable? 

You can still buy Bakoon amplifiers.At least in Japan and Australia.Bakoon is the real thing made by the designers in Japan.Enleum and Bakoon Korea are more just upselling /fancy boxing/alternative marketing enterprises based on the Bakoon Japan designs.I think the Japanese ones are much better value.

You can buy Chinese copies of the FM Acoustic FM 300A amplifiers for about US $450.They are both high resolution and musical.Not quite as high resolution as my Bakoon but pretty close .The real FM 300A costs about $30,000.The copies are claimed to be 99% clones.

The Musical Fidelity A1 is not a high resolution amp.Pleasant but relatively low resolution.I own one.It has the least resolution of all the amps I own.

I own 6 Amps from $700 to 20K and the most detailed AND Musical is the new NP-1 from Frank Van Alstine....It's magic .

Ime, the higher you go up in price doesn't necessarily guarantee that you could experience the above mentioned. It seems to come down to the nitty gritty of the circuits under consideration, i.e., the black art of power delivery and analog circuit design.

@deep_333 High end audio, like many high end products, is driven by intention rather than cost. So you can run into less expensive gear that easily seems to outperform equipment that cost several times more. This can happen because the less expensive gear is built to a price formula rather than what the market will bear.

There are now class D amps  that are exactly that- smooth, detailed and involving- that can easily outperform (and sound better than) amps that cost quite a lot more. Of course, not all class D amps sound the same just as not all class A amps sound the same so you should not be dissuaded if the particular class D amp you encountered didn't seem to bring home the bacon.

you should look into the SIM audio north collection the 761 and the 861 amplifiers I heard the 761 and its phenomenal not cheap but well worth it.

Here is a current review on their entry level stereo amp,GanFet amp my mono blocks are substantially better then that ,I almost overlooked it because I am used to 80 pound monsters ,Maybe times are changing ! 

https://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0724/ClassD_Audio_Mini_GaN3_Amplifier_Review.htm

I bought a pre production pair of GanFet monoblocks and I am very impressed 

I have to send it back for the product power supply is even better ,they don’t use LPS ,or torroid  the designer of the gain Fet - brainiac helped in design 

the owner Tom designs his own modules .IHave owned Coda ,Parasound JC,   Pass labs  and others. Class D Audio   For under $2k to compete with amps many times the cost is a steal and has 4GanFets per mono block  and smaller form factor but stuffer with top quality parts and made in  USA .

I tried a friends orchard audio very detailed and clean but too neutral  for my taste

after I get the for the production version I will. State just how good it is .

I heard the  Simaudio 860 V2 and 761 on the Paradigm Persona 5F and 9H and thought the 761 was easily better. The 761 is also cheaper.

The S5.5 won't work well for the NS5000. I spoke with Doug Dale @ CODA about this amp and the NS5000. In fact, I use a CODA #16 on the NS5000 right now. It is a terrific pairing. The S5.5 will work on the NS5000, just like a stereo AHB2 would work. However, this speaker sounds better to me with more power than the S5.5 can deliver.

I am only looking to add another amp because the amp I use in another system would sound better if it was replaced with one of the following 3 amps, SimAudio North | CODA #16 | Luxman M10X. 

I would rotate 2 amps with 2 systems. Currently, I cannot do this because my current second amp does not sound great on the NS5000.

Doug said that the new (or updated) CODA System S150 + SV would be his top gear.

CODA S150/S250 Amplifier System – Destination HiFi  ($20k)

CODA SV System Voltage Amplifier – Destination HiFi ($8k)

This comes a little under $30k. Since I already have the #16, I decided not to look into the S150.

+1 @yyzsantabarbara for the CODA S5.5 amp

@deep_333 

The S5.5 at $6K new is one of the rarely true hifi bargains, just as good in most ways and better in some than my Gryphon Diablo 300. It is a high current design in Class A but doesn't run particular hot.

There is a LONG thread here on Audiogon about it with rave comments from owners.

Your $30K budget may convince you to look elsewhere but that would be a mistake.

The only amp I have heard in my system as good is the Simaudio 860 V2, BUT at $20K it is not exactly a steal (used would be the way to go but they don'tcome up for sale often). The newest version is even more money but apparently there is a buzz growing about it, haven't heard it myself but likely it would be worth an audition.

Mola Mola’s original engineer was Bruno P. Who is no longer with Mola Mola. He started Purifi a few years ago and they make the amp and speaker parts for others.

Not sure about the new guys designing at Mola Mola.

@deep_333 You should have a listen to the new SimAudio North Collection amps. These amps have a similar level of detail as the AHB2 but does not have any edge to it. I mentioned this before on this thread. I heard the 761 amp, and I agree with what the reviewers have been saying about it. The price range is $100k+ | $24k | $15k. I heard the $USD 15k one and that should be powerful enough for my Yamaha NS5000. A local dealer carries both and I may have a listen this Friday.

The poster doesn't say what his speakers are or the room dimensions.  I have Yamaha NS 5000's in a great room type space with a 13 foot listening distance. Using 500 watt B&O Ice Modules in Red Dragon mono block chassis. Details and cool running power the 600 watt rated Yamahas run very well on.

Engineers measure a device's efficiency in an inverse relationship to heat it produces. The more heat the less efficient. It has new relevance in the age of climate change and HVAC systems failing. Hence I recommend nicer Class D.

I suggest you listen to the Mola Mola Perca.

@laoman  Thanks for the suggestion, I hear some good things about this Mola Mola's main engineer. This might be worth an audit....

I may have to look at more oddball less heard of names, i think....Maybe MSB, "Bakoon", Hegel H30, etc...as well. I've had the more common big names on loan, or atleast a older model at some point... Gryphon, Boulder, AR, etc and they haven't produced that extra detail than my current amps, it's about in the same ballpark.

Worst case...I could wait for some rich guy to sell me a Aavik P-880 for 30k. I could probably talk him into thinking that some other 200k miracle amp is what he needs and the Aavik is beneath him! 

MSB makes some superb power amps as well as their DACs they're most well-known for. I've got an S-200 I bought a demo of about 10 or so years ago; that model is superb in most everything, but is long discontinued, but they've got more current models if you've got the budget.... 

I’m surprised that no one has asked. What are the speakers  the OP is going to use with that $30,000 amp?

@donvito , I have different speakers, but, the one i'm considering this future amp for primarily is a Yamaha NS5000. 

I’m surprised that no one has asked. What are the speakers  the OP is going to use with that $30,000 amp?

@deep_333 

yeah, wet rags.  it worked, but like I said too much hassle and risk.

I do have fans although not as sophisticated as that amp cooler. Anyway I decided that in the summers here I will only run Class D, they have gotten quite good. 

In the winter I dust off my A1 and Transcendent T8-LN OTL and switch back and forth between them.

But  I don't mind experimenting in the summer with the more efficient electronics. It is interesting and it is a good thing for the planet if we can figure it out.

Plus I very likely will be moving to a South Pacific island in the next year or two so I might as well find some hi-fi components that I like that will be practical in such an environment.

Runs too hot for the summers here in Sin City though. I tried placing wet rags on the top of the chassis which is also the heat sink, but it was too much trouble to keep the cloth sufficiently damp without dripping water into the electronics :)

@ltmandella , Wet rags?!?! 

Set this on top of the amp.... This type of cooler has prolonged the lifespan of many an amp IN A SAFE MANNER.

AC Infinity Aircom T10 Amp Cooler

Musical Fidelity A1.  Class A solid state.  35wpc claimed.  I have the 2008 version; it is an integrated but I will often use it in HT mode to bypass as much of the integrated preamp circuitry as possible.

Having said that, I run it with any of 5 different sets of speakers, the best for detail being my Reference3A DeCapo I speakers.

Synergy is an important factor in speaker/amp combinations of course.

Runs too hot for the summers here in Sin City though.  I tried placing wet rags on the top of the chassis which is also the heat sink, but it was too much trouble to keep the cloth sufficiently damp without dripping water into the electronics  :)

Sublime sound though!

I tend to think of detail presentation as being more in the domain of the preamp. But yes I'm sure the amp also has a lot to say about it.

@jji666 

Streamer/software/ddc whatever -'> conducive transport for detail creation

dac ---> detail 'creation'

dac output stage, preamp --'> hopefully, it is preserved

cables --> hopefully, it is preserved

power amp --> higher probability of a possible bottleneck/choke point pethaps for letting it through, imo

i have some ways of dealing with stuff upstream of the poweramp, not that worried about the same.

The use case is not just for hifi listening. There is a 'hifi' speaker I've been recently using as a monitor as well, recording some things, etc...Hence,...a quest to  mitigate any power amp bottleneck, w.r.t the above mentioned (could be in vain...could be not).

But, there have been some interesting suggestions thus far.