You might like some of the Firstwatt amps. I think of them as Nelson Pass's solid state SET amps. Most produce 25 wpc however. https://www.firstwatt.com/

If you are at all disposed to kit building they can be done that way too, https://diyaudiostore.com/

@bruce19 thanks for the suggestion, but FirstWatt doesn't have an integrated and the reason why I got the INT-25 was to simplify the system.

I really want to stay with an integrated...

I usually drive mine direct from whatever Dac I am using so it is not an issue. Perhaps you have vinyl or cds as part of your sources. I pretty much have left those sources behind. So your thinking of integrated tube amps then? It might help if you spell out what connectivity you need since the rest of your system is not listed with your profile.

The Unison Unico hybrid integrateds are worth looking into given what you’re looking for, and this seller offers a 30-day return policy, which is really nice.  Of course there’s always the used market. 
https://soundapproach.com/search/?q=unison%20unico

There’s also Pathos that has similar products and several with gorgeous looks if that matters. 
https://upscaleaudio.com/search?q=pathos

Hope this helps, and best of luck. 

Here ya go!

https://audioresearch.com/new_website/audio-research-i-50-integrated-amplifier/

Or this!

https://caryaudio.com/products/sli-80hs/

I would always flip flop yearly or so between tubes and solid state. I finally came to the realization that I just listen more with tubes. Might not get some of the characteristics of SS that I enjoy but I don't think that perfect middle ground exist for me (yet). 

Just be careful not to under power your speakers with tubes and nowadays you have to be careful not to buy a tube amp that sound like SS. 

Good luck, maybe give it some time or borrow some cables or new source?

@bjesien I don't think the source or cables are limiting anything,.. the source is PS Audio AirLens (via i2s) into a DirectStream Sr (modified). All analog cables are SilverSmith Fidelium and so are the speaker cables. I've been using this setup for years and extremely happy with it.

If I use my little backup amp, Luxman SQ-N150, the sound is very sweet and you can listen for hours, but it's definitely a bit underpowered (you can hear compression at louder passages even if you keep the volume control moderate).

In the perfect world, I would find something like the SQ-N150 but with the power and (most of the) details of the Pass (and the bass of the Pass).

Listen to Luxman and Ayre

The sources are PS Audio AirLens into DirectStream Sr (modified) via i2S, PerfectWave CD transport into the same DAC via i2S. Vinyl is a Denon DP-59L with a Shelter 50- cartridge into a Andover Audio SpinStage.

basically I need two inputs

Accuphase Class A integrated

Prima Luna Evo 400 tube integrated or Evo 300 hybrid integrated.  

+1 Yogiboy

Audio Research I-50.

I've directly compared them. 

While the Pass INT-25 is not a overly detailed amp... and has a very good midrange... it can’t compete with the ARC I-50 on warm, natural sounding music with the details in proper proportion.

NYAL 150. This is a 75wpc Mosfet amp with a tube front end. I have one. The best of both tubes  and transistors -  New York Audio Labs. 

@ghdprentice @yogiboy doesn’t the I-50 require a technician to bias the unit when tubes are replaced?  I was seriously interested in this integrated as a first foray into tubes but this was the main reason I shelved the idea.  Maybe it’s not a big deal or doesn’t matter to the OP but it sounded like a pita to me.  I was really disappointed to learn this about it.

Have you seen Steve Guttenberg's reviews on his Audiophiliac youtube channel?  Steve has PAP Duos as his reference speaker and has compared several Pass amps, Linear Tube Audio amps and other amps.   The LTA ZOTL Ultralinear+ Integrated might be worth a try. 

I’d just go for the VSI 75.  Straight forward easy to bias. Love mine.

I read about the Modwright Analog Bridge. Tubes and you just put in your system before the Pass and its supposed to add the tube warmth. No amplification. Granted I've never tried it but I'm curious so maybe someone here has heard it. I also have Pass amps btw.

@audiojan are you open to "tube" integrated options?

To @audiojan if I may suggest, its the combination of your INT-25, SilverSmith Fidelium cables, paired with your PAP speakers all together, exactly what and why you are hearing what you are enjoying less now if you are more into a system with warmth and body to the sound. If you truly came from a tube system, with your PAP speakers, that prior matching likely worked well together for you in a more engaging way, correct?

We see you don’t believe your new cables have anything to do with it yet I happened to catch your post on the PSAuido forum with the same handle name about how much more airy and open your new cables are compared to Cardas Clear Beyond. I'm a Cardas owner and CBs are pretty open, airy, and detailed too. So, If this is the case, detailed + detailed + revealing = more revealing detail and less of a plush sound imo. Top end is likely much more tipped up now I'd guess.

Sharing fwiw, my main system is all tube. My secondary system is a tube preamp paired with a solid state amp of Pass lineage to help keep it a bit smoother etc.

Matching & Pairing:

If I were in your shoes, I’d be chatting with every owner to be found with your same PAP Trio15 Class speakers, and inquire more about which TYPE of amp and cables they choose to pair up with most and why.

Tube integrated:

Its easy to see why many here are recommending a tube integrated to you instead. Its not that your INT-25 is not a good choice, I just believe you are hearing more of everything now and the lushness of "tube" is not there any more. Note: I sold three pairs of the older Cardas Golden Cross cables to Pass owners with similar comments as yours and what you are experiencing right now - if it helps to know. 

I'd be looking for a tube integrated to demo next and compare, decide from there. 

There have been some great suggestions and the cables are definitely worth looking at.  I was also in a similar situation with my very expensive SS integrated which I really enjoyed but slowly realized I missed the tube sound.  Purchased a nice tube integrated and listening with a smile on my face!

Someone mentioned modwright and they're a brand I would definitely look at. Their KWH225i is a hybrid integrated. I have a pre of theirs and love it. Tthe Music Room is an authorized dealer and they often have an open box for a great deal. Might be a good match

Looks like the consensus is try a tube integrated. :-) I was hoping that the INT-25 would bridge the gap between solid state and tubes, but I think that was hoping for too much.

I'll look for a good tube integrated. I've had Audio Research in the past, so that's definitely an option

I definitely like the options having a Pass Preamp with the Sit-4…maybe it’s me but having separates is really nice…the Sit-4 really sounds nice with my horn speakers. I had a lot of tube gear in the past with lots of problems with the Primaluna gear. I always missed tubes so just yesterday I put in the Modwright Analog Bridge and it definitely changed the tone for the better, I slammed all the most harsh sounding fingers on a chalkboard electronic music through it and wow it took enough of that harshness away so I didn’t leave the room..one song I love is from Duran Duran Ordinary World it took that song and gave it a nice sweet tone..

I also have the XA-25, love the Sit-4 more…if you have to go all tubes play it safe and get the Cary Audio SLP-80…

To @audiojan its not that we believe your INT-25 could not work, but we all have been in a situation where the sound was too much in one way or another and lacking in other areas compared to our "last" system setup, for example. Then we find ourselves fine tuning in other areas upstream, like changing DACs or (sure enough) trying different cables again etc. It’s kind of a balancing act to get there.

I had a pair of these popular [other brand] OCC cables once that were so open, transparent, huge sound stage, and simply were not as engaging, and for my taste they were a bad match for one of my amplifier setups. Went back to simple pure copper ICs and speaker cables I had before. All the sudden things settled down, quite a bit actually. The midrange music was back again. Two other buddies had the same cables, same issue, all of us resold them. It happens some times with different setups. Some cables I've tried can cause situations like this too, fwiw.  

A few last thoughts, free to try fwiw:

• Warmup: As a quick test, can you leave your INT-25 powered on for 48hrs, particularly so if it’s been sitting cold in a box somewhere and before you received it? No joke, I had recently rotated my older Pass/Forte’ amp back in recently and it had been out of rotation for six (6) months. First try was not smooth, grainy, too etched. Left it on for a few days, went back and listed again, and a very nice change on the first startup back into the system. Better every time since. That’s one things to try.
• Toe-in: Are your PAPs toed in quite a bit now? Can you try to toe them back out almost straight forward for a bit, listen for a while, see how it goes, then slightly toe-in again if needed at all, or none.
• Cables: do you have a local shop you can borrow any other less open/airy ICs going between your main device/DAC etc to your INT-25?

Best of luck, just a few thoughts before you jump ship to a tube integrated. This whole thread has me thinking too what my next consolidation move might be btw.

To @audiojan did you happen to notice the other cable thread and questions going on right now, one member posted something similar about your same SilverSmith Fidelium cables?

I’d recommend you message this member [@sls883] and ask more and why they changed to something else, our what changed since.  Maybe worth checking into this more potentially, look here:

https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2766914

While I have almost no experience with PrimaLuna, they have at least 4 different, all tube integrated amplifiers you can check out.  With tube rolling, you could customize the sound to one that makes you happy.

All the best.

Have you considered the Sugden A21 SE? Less expensive than the Pass, but some reviewers prefer it to the INT-25; slightly larger soundstage. I think you'll find a slightly warmer sound, as well. Voices are lovely.

I'm pretty set on keeping my Silversmith Fidelium cables. Of all the cables I've tried over the years (and they're quite a few and almost all more expensive than the Silversmith's), these the most neutral, detailed, yet smooth cables I've tried.

Same goes for the digital front end. Replacing the PS Audio DirectStream Sr (with multiple modifications) would cost way more than replacing the amp.

Also, I'm not going back to separates again. I've had some many over the years and the simplicity of an integrated is getting more appealing the older I get.

So I'm either going to stay with the INT-25 (and there's a lot that I love about it!) or I'm going to a tube integrated (and there's a lot I love about tubes).

I do appreciate all the input and options offered up.

Might want to check out the Roger’s High Fidelity 65 V - 2 tube integrated. Superior build quality, lifetime warranty & sounds great if powerful enough for you. 

@audiojan What happened to your Diablo 300 and W/P 8’s?

@audiojan ..." these the most neutral, detailed, yet smooth cables I've tried."

Yep.  Exactly what the INT-25 is showing you more of too. More neutral, more detail, less bloom.  And so it goes.   

@audiojan - Over the last five years I’ve tried to listen to as many amps as possible. One amp that stands out in my mind is the Audio Research I-50. I originally ordered one when we were first coming out of COVID. Unfortunately, supply chains were slowing things down so I cancelled.

And I regret it! 

The I-50 was gorgeous sounding. And it had just that touch of warmth you are seeking. Based on your description, I suspect it’s exactly what you are looking for.

 @bluethinker thanks for posting about the I-50. I owned a VSI-55 about 15 years ago and was wondering about the I-50. Does anyone know what's been done to "upgrade" this amp to the newest addition? 

I found the VSI a little cool, perhaps the Op did too if he's moved on.

I don't see an impedance curve on the Pure Audio site. Anyone that claims high efficiency in my mind should post such information. Instead they say "effortless and dynamic sonic performances with any amplification." That's usually misleading an expensive for people to find, but maybe I missed this information.

Keep us posted good thread.

https://pureaudioproject.com/classic15-open-baffle-speakers-by-pureaudioproject/

Scroll all the way down to the end of the page and you'll find:

MORE TECHNICAL DATA

• True Point Source D’appolito Design
• Sensitivity > 96db (in a typical room).
• Nominal Impedance: 8ohm.
• Frequency Range: 29-32hz to 20Khz (in a typical room).
• Drivers: see above: About Trio15 Components.
• Crossovers: see above: About Trio15 Components.
• Typical distance from rear wall: 2-4′ (60-120cm)
• Distance from side walls: Any
• Size: W:54cm H:125cm D:27cm | W:21.25″ H:49.4″ D:10.63″
•  

• Weight: starts at 55lb/25kg

I am running an http://www.triodelab.com/ 2A3EVO amp and really love it, my speakers are 97db efficient which is equivalent to PAP Trio. The mid range is magical and it has a nice quick/tight bass. I don't listen loud. I have had it for 2 years and it is the first amp I have had where I have no desire to change, yet....

I was trading emails with Ze'ev (PAP owner) and he said he uses a 2A3 Set amp as part of voicing the speaker.

I am considering the same speaker with the horn when finances allow.

Good Luck

The necessity to have a dealer or technician bias tubes in the Audio Research I-50 is a large negative to some of us.

I may have discovered why this INT-25 is not working well... to get to a volume that's about conversational, I need to turn the volume up to 50 (the volume goes to 63). I borrowed a new INT-25 from my local dealer (their tech is out, otherwise he could've looked at it) and on that unit at about 30 it was quite a bit louder than conversational.

Could it be that I simply struggle with the amp because of a gain issue?!

Yes, there must be something wrong with your amp.  The sound should be extremely loud at 50 on the INT-25 with PAP Trio speakers.  I'm curious to hear what the tech says when they look at it.  

Sounds like an amp issue. Did you even control the volume from your dac or via Roon or something is turned way down (DSP)?

The impedance curve is a range, like a set of stairs that the amp had to walk constantly. Nominal doesn’t mean much for a speaker load especially when talking lower powered tube amps.

You are making progress

Volume is set as fixed for the AirLens (and in Roon) and the PS Audio DirectStream is set as fixed, high, 96 (which is max). Everything is at full blast into the amp, yet at almost full output of the INT-25 is barely above conversational level.

1 watt should give you 96db near the speaker so should hardly be conversational at the level you are setting it. Something is off. 

• Typical distance from rear wall: 2-4′ (60-120cm)

Personal rant: The wall behind the speakers is the FRONT WALL. It's the wall in FRONT of the listener but behind the speakers. If this is the back wall then what is the wall behind the listener. the "other" back wall?

Just a personal pet peeve, carry on!

I went to a bar in Colorado and the sign read: liquor in the front poker in the rear. Point is we don't want to mess these things up. Well stated Thompson.

@bjesien 1 watt should give you 96db near the speaker so should hardly be conversational at the level you are setting it. Something is off.

Mute button on somewhere, lol.

Whoa! Just tapping into this thread now and, as a Pass INT-25 owner, I would concur with the others who suggest that there could be a technical issue with your amp. Or an issue with the output of your digital front end. I have Devore O/93 speakers (at 93dB spec, much less sensitive than yours) and it'd be a rare occasion that I would ever get up to or past 50 volume with a feed from my Roon Nucleus -> Ayre QB-9 Twenty -> INT-25 playing any genre of music (and I like things loud for both rock and orchestral). And when I'm spinning vinyl with my Sota Sapphire TT & ModWright PH9.0XT providing the feed, the gain is even more significant into the Pass and 'quite loud' in my medium size room would be 40-45 on the volume setting.

Have that amp checked out. And if no issue with it's output, it's got to be a source feed problem (IMHO)

Although you haven't mentioned the size of your room and distance from speakers to listening spot, unless I missed it (?)

I’m quite sure you have a gain problem with your source.  I had the same problem with an INT-60.  Would have to turn volume knob up to almost 60 to get volume barely past conversational levels.  Once I changed the source to something with more gain, the problem went away.

Try using XLR outs from the DirectStream (with RCA adaptors) to INT-25.  Per PS Audio that will give you 6db more gain.

Try an Ayre.

Ayre sounds nothing like Luxman or Pass Labs, so weird that Luxman was suggested as an alternative in the same post.

My Ayre V-X5E sounds almost identical to the Pass XA25 but just a tad warmer and with greater headroom and bass. 

@marco1 the INT-25 is single ended, so no way to use balanced output from the DAC into the amp. Using RCA adapters negates the additional 6dB output.

@helomech I heard a Ayre AX5 Twenty a few years ago and it was really nice, so that might be an option. Didn’t even thing about that.

I heard a Ayre AX5 Twenty a few years ago and it was really nice, so that might be an option. Didn’t even thing about that.

The AX-5 Twenty is an end-game quality integrated. Lower noise floor than the INT-25 and noise floor matters considerably.