Open baffle speakers

I have both and enjoy both. That is what makes this hobby fun. Hearing what different speakers bring to the table.

Coke vs. Pepsi.  There is no right or wrong.  Neither type of speaker is unquestionably technically superior.  In my limited experience with a small number or audio enthusiasts, a majority moved to open baffle from box speakers.  All described a more musical presentation closer to live.  All described an evolution away from brand name hype, reviews always positive, focus on specs, and a maturing of  their tastes.  All wished they had discovered open baffle sooner.  I know other enthusiasts that love box speakers.  Listen to what you like.

The OPs "But more listener prefer traditional loudspeaker design" attempt to claim being right and have the last word is meaningless. 

OK , trust you what you hearing , ,Sorry and happy listening OB speakers. But more listener prefer traditional loudspeaker design ,  

Why do I get the feeling that the OP doesn't really want to learn anything, and only wants to argue, or try to prove he's the smartest guy in the room?

"If you dont believe in acoustic silence and only trust what you are hearing , stop reading my post and keep enjoy in bass performance open baffle design . "

Well, of course I only trust what I am hearing. What else would I trust? Some link you posted that I'm not going to read? I'm not even sure what that means. 

So.....you asked a question on why OB speaker designs became popular.

You received well over a dozen replies from real-world listeners, people with real-world experience.

And you want to argue (in broken English, mind you...) that they don't sound good? That they're bass-shy? Why don't you try a pair for yourself and then get back to us.

Thanks, and have a great day.

It seems that @bache has a habit of starting controversial threads about OB speakers. Not a good look for a manufacturer who builds a competitive design.

Bache,

Which commercial OB speaker did you hear that you found wanting in bass response?  What was it like otherwise?  I am surprised by how decent bass can be even with the dipole cancellation and the lack of reinforcement from bass reflex or sealed box loading.  This is not the case with all OB speakers I heard, but the good ones convince me that it is possible.

@ozzy62 I know exactly what you mean concerning the midrange sound of the Spatials.  I’d like to hear the Qualio IQ speakers one day.

Thanks!

@dbt 

The thing I didn’t like about the X3 was Clayton’s decision to use a 12” driver to reproduce the midrange. I never got the feeling that the midrange reproduction seemed “real”. There was no texture to voices and instruments. Dynamics were good and the bass depth and quality was excellent. I kept them about a year and moved them on.

It’s been a while, so hard to compare. The midrange performance of the IQs is definitely top notch. The powered 15” drivers on the X3 might get the nod, but not by much. 

This is information to all OB speakers fans. If you dont believe in acoustic silence and only trust what you are hearing , stop reading my post and keep enjoy in bass performance open baffle design . But if you have open mind -Baffle size must be bigger than length assume low frequency wave , For usually size baffle 20-30 " OB speakers bass performance starting from approx. 100-120 Hz https://www.acousticfields.com/wavelengths-in-our-rooms/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ozzy62 I owned the Spatial Audio X5 speakers a few years ago and loved them, but I didn’t like the built-in active subwoofers and they sounded thin in the midrange and bass.  The X5’s were nice, but they were kind of bright until they made some adjustments and added a resistor to tame the AMT tweeter.  I was going to buy the Spatial Audio X4, but changed my mine and went back to a box speaker. I still love OB speakers.  I think we chatted briefly on AudiogoN or Audio Circle back when you had the X3’s.

How do your Qualio IQ speakers compare to the X3’s you owned?
 

 

I've always thought that open baffle and planar/ribbon speakers have a sound that either attracts you or not. It is an open transparent sound that got me instantly. I am very happy with my Spatial Audio Lab X5s which I consider my endgame speakers.

I heard the Pure Audio Project Duet 15 at an audio show and really, really liked the sound.  Big bass and spacious stage, excellent dynamics.  

My only concern is about what gremlins may show up after more extended listening with more variety of music.....

I can't go back. OB. 

Am Good speaker design is a speaker that Sounds good when properly set up. Does it matter if it is made of baling wire and duct tape? Or diamonds and rosewood?

No….

The end result is more important than the means to get there. 

But, give me 3 hours and I'll build you a open baffle speaker in my garage and the sound of it will get you jawdropped. I already know which pro drivers to use and how to build your crossover. I'll charge 20k just for kicks and laugh all the way to China town.

What are you waiting for?  Do it and quit ragging on those that produce a product.  For just an audio enthusiast you imply knowing quite a bit about designing speakers and cables.  Seem like you are sitting on an untapped gold mine of expertise.

Danny Richie of GR Research designs and sells both OB and sealed box loudspeakers and subs (in kit form). He has used the same drivers in both applications, and makes no bones about preferring the sound the drivers make when used open baffle. That preference is not a result of design difficulty, but of achieving maximum transparency, greatest soundstage depth, and lowest coloration.

Danny knows some stuff and is probably capable of designing a box speaker that can blow someone’s socks off too. But, the latter would end up costing more than what his target market would be willing to pay (i.e., diy guys fishing for high value stuff and very modest pricing).

He is a small business/ lacks the resources of the bigger gigs to keep prices down. OB is the easier way out to satisfy his targeted customer base/modest price bracket requirement.

My earlier comment was hinting at some other coaster clowns (not Danny) who know absolutely nothing about speaker design...but seem to be minting with their open baffle overnight speaker "expertise/extravaganza"....Am sure the next venture for these guys would be "high end" cable design...very easy to become a high end cable design expert PhD overnight as well.

 

Open baffle is much easier/cheaper to design/build. Even incompetent dudes with an open baffle offering can claim they are good at designing speakers. On the same note, If someone’s getting greedy/ trying to overcharge you for it (could name a few), have a second thought about it.

 

Tell that to Linkwitz. Just as many, if not more, incompetent dudes design box speakers

I am a business owner, just an audio enthusiast (not in the audio business).

But, give me 3 hours and I'll build you a open baffle speaker in my garage and the sound of it will get you jawdropped. I already know which pro drivers to use and how to build your crossover. I'll charge 20k just for kicks and laugh all the way to China town.

Can I design/build you a ns5000, tad, etc. Absolutely not (do not know the secrets/have anywhere close to the knowledge base of the gifted dudes who design/build such things)

 

Danny Richie of GR Research designs and sells both OB and sealed box loudspeakers and subs (in kit form). He has used the same drivers in both applications, and makes no bones about preferring the sound the drivers make when used open baffle. That preference is not a result of design difficulty, but of achieving maximum transparency, greatest soundstage depth, and lowest coloration.

 

Open baffle sonic benefits do not surpass boxed speaker designs from engineers who know their stuff.

Two different sonic presentation, nothing to do box speaker designers knowing their stuff.

Open baffle is much easier/cheaper to design/build. Even incompetent dudes with an open baffle offering can claim they are good at designing speakers. On the same note, If someone’s getting greedy/ trying to overcharge you for it (could name a few), have a second thought about it.

Tell that to Linkwitz.  Just as many, if not more, incompetent dudes design box speakers.  

They are a bit restrictive on your choice of subwoofer. But, inclusion/correct integration of subs is a necessity for openbaffle.

Correct integration is required for a box speaker as well.

They are much more room/placement sensitive. If you have a bad room or restrictions for optimal placement (atleast 80+% of guys on audio forums), try and stay away from it.

To get the best performance from any speaker room placement is important.  80% of guys on audio forums are not nearly as knowledgeable as they pretend.  Use of that percentage to support "stay away" is meaningless.

A Ripole subwoofer does a remarkable job for its size.  Borrensen, pretty competent dudes, now offer their version of a Ripole.  

Boils down to preference, no right or wrong.  Experiment and you could be pleasantly surprised.

If you MUST put speakers against the back wall, Larsen is the speaker for you. They are designed for that role and do it very well. If you wish to put your OB speakers (I have maggies and Linkwitz) close to a back wall, just hang a rug, curtain, quilt, or tapestry about 1 inch from the wall (attach the fabric to a 1x1 screwed into the wall) and place the speaker a few inches from the fabric. It can be a "hall runner" or something wider. Thick, fuzzy rugs work best. The speaker's stand projects at least a few inches front and rear, so you can push them up to the wall. If the room is wider than deep, turn the speakers 45 degrees to the wall (aimed at you) so the back wave reflects off the back wall and bounces off the side wall before bouncing back to you. That lengthen the path of the back wave. Floor carpet, rugs, etc will improve juat about any listening space. Popcorn ceilings are your friends. Happy listening!

An open baffle speaker with good field coil drivers sorts out typical issues with low frequency control. In my listening, the only traditionally boxed speakers able to eliminate cabinet colouration have been the massive kharma enigma veyrons and the goebel divin marquis, and even so, never fully - a nuanced degree of cabinet is always heard. Something about greatly increased size, i believe, reduces unwanted sound contributions of the sealed box design. Open baffle, all other things equal, comes without any trace of colouration whatsoever, coupled with all that air which accompanies live music. They’re simply amazing : )

In friendship - kevin 

Dick Olsher's Basszillas worked out very well for me.  The bass reflex cabinet with the 16" woofer and the absorbent disk on the back wall gave smooth, articulate bass but not the submarine-low thunder that I didn't care for anyway, and the DX4's with the ribbon tweeters were magnificent.  Drove the things with a 4 watt 2A3 to as far as you'd wanna go.  That baffle, though, needs to be BIG.  The plans are still out there, I think.  

Never gave open baffle speakers a thought, then I went to an Audio show.  Outside of $40k speakers, the open baffle ones sounded the best, actually had too much bass. These things blew me away, they sounded so good!!

Then found out they are DIY for like $2k, still on the fence about building a pair, but still can't believe how good they sounded. 

speaker video

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when an acoustic band is playing, the "sound" is coming from every direction, and not straight to your ears. So would an open baffle with both forward, and reflective sound be more realistic, and natural? Have a much bigger sweet spot? 

@bache No, I like them fine, just saying that you aren’t paying for that on most OB speakers. Your money should be going to making the other components better on OB designs.

Would someone prefer the OB Caladans at $3500 or say the pretty Ash veneer of Monitor Audio Silver 500 7G speakers at $3400?  Guess it depends on their room and other associated equipment. 

I have about 100 hours on the Caladans. I hear refined  and tight bass pluckings of bass guitars I never heard of (listening to the same song for years).

I have a pair of DIY 8" OB from the Decware site. VERY happy with them. I like them because of their efficiency and no xover - so very simple. The signal goes from my TT to pre-amp to amp to driver. cabinet is MDF and front is 2 x 3/4" maple.

www.claytonshawacousticlab.com

Check out Clayton Shaw's Caladan OB speakers. All the nice things said of a very good speaker. Sorry, I am not good with words but listen to what the buyers said of their Caladans.

 

@moonwatcher   You dont like wood veneered MDF, this is most popular main stream cabinets design. What you like  -pure wood ?

I’ve watched a lot of reviews of various OB speakers, but just like Magnepans (any dipole), they are a "non-starter" for me because my 15’ x 25’ living room simply will not allow me to pull them out away from the rear wall enough (or side walls if I want good imaging). And no, I’m not going to move them back and forth all the time when I want to listen. According to all the reviews, they can be excellent speakers with plenty of bass and great definition without cabinet resonances. If you have a room that can do them justice, you might want to try a pair.

At least you can hope that most of your money is going to good quality drivers, a well designed crossover, and some nice wood work for the frame and baffle, and not going to make a heavy MDF or HDF cabinet with vinyl wrap or wood veneer. 

Open baffle sonic benefits do not surpass boxed speaker designs from engineers who know their stuff.

Open baffle is much easier/cheaper to design/build. Even incompetent dudes with an open baffle offering can claim they are good at designing speakers. On the same note, If someone’s getting greedy/ trying to overcharge you for it (could name a few), have a second thought about it.

They are a bit restrictive on your choice of subwoofer. But, inclusion/correct integration of subs is a necessity for openbaffle.

They are much more room/placement sensitive. If you have a bad room or restrictions for optimal placement (atleast 80+% of guys on audio forums), try and stay away from it.

 

I doubt owner of Wilson and Devore will sell them. I know one sold their Tekton below 3k plus for spatial speakers.

I dont hear traditional close or ported boxes fan,  are they gonna sell Wilson

Tektone , Devore , ets and swich to OB design ?

I ran various model Alon/Nola for years, certainly a different presentation vs box. Open baffle need to come out from front wall and likely need more absorption on that front wall vs. diffusion for box speakers. I actually preferred the way they imaged and did sound stage vs. box, more spaciousness around individual performers. Never could get used to the boxed speakers I used subsequent to the Alon/Nola, always sounded closed in to me. Now use horns which I prefer to the open baffle.

 

Listen to a friend's setup using Spatial's from time to time, still like the unique sound of these open baffles, perceive no great issues with bass.

I have the GR Research NX-Otica open baffles and their 2-driver OB sub.  Most of the people in our audio club rate them as among the best they have ever heard.

There’s certainly excellent bass.  Very tight and textured.

Last year at the Burning Amp Festival I heard a pair of open-baffle speakers that I found very impressive.  They were tall, with 7 drivers in a D'Appolito configuration on beautiful hardwood slabs.  The most natural sounding bass!  A plucked acoustic bass sounded like real strings, not "thuds."  Midrange and highs were lovely too.  Imaging was excellent, IMO.  They were made by a fellow named Greg Prisament and called "Natur".  He has a web site but I don't know if he's taking orders.  Previously I've heard smaller, single-driver OB speakers (some DIY and some commercial) and they were pleasant in many ways but wouldn't do orchestral music to speak of.  These were speakers I could live with.  I'm hoping he'll be there again this year, I'd like to hear them again.

My only experience was owning Alon V MkIIs, which were like the Qualio IQ - sealed box woofer under an open baffle with mid and tweeter. I never got used to the sound and sold them after a couple of years to happily return to box speakers. The open baffle sound was just too diffuse sounding for me.

I never even considered that imaging would be a problem with open baffle speakers.  They do a good job when correctly placed, as do most other types of speakers.  In many respects, they are not much different from panel speakers, like Maggies, which also have a dipole radiation pattern that result in bass cancellation and substantial sound coming from the back.  If the back wave is sufficiently delayed in time reaching the listeners ear vis-a-vis the front wave, the ear/brain hears it as reverberation and not a confusing signal about the location of the original sound source.  Added reverb is generally not a bad thing and some people have spent a lot to generate additional reverb to supplement what is in the recording.

 

My experiences with open baffle speakers started with the Caintuck speaker that I first observed on the Decware site, which I built and bought a pair of the least expensive Lii audio 6 inch speakers for. I wasn’t expecting much and was shocked how appealing they were to me, I later bought a pair of the F15s Which I put in a bit larger baffle and was further pleased. I had read Nelson Pass saying that he was rather enjoying open baffle speakers with no crossovers full range. That is what these were and they are surprisingly enjoyable. Lots of speed and leading edge definition  And much less sensitive to sweet spot problems. They par nicely with subwoofers, but also hold their own without them. I think it is because they deliver such nice cues regarding the attack and transient qualities of the music that your mind fills in some of the missing base performance. I’ve also done a little experimenting digitally, equalizing them but tend to come back to liking their performance unaided, warts and all. Needless to say these are great speakers for small amplifiers both tube and solid-state. They are efficient and present a very easy to drive load. Maybe that is part of what makes them appealing. 

Oh almost forgot. These "Compact Baffles" are the most holographic best imaging speakers I've ever had! 

Hi all!

I've tried many speakers etc including B&W Matrix 3s, Harbeth SLH5 Super 40th anniversary, Quad ESL63's and finally built a pair of "Compact Baffles" designed by Terry from Ladolce Audio and James from ABX Audiophiles and am gobsmacked with the result.

My Audio friends are stunned and confused as they can't understand how they can sound soooo good.

The bass is best I've ever heard in a home situation. It is clean, fast, tight, deep and loud! 

I no longer need my pair of RSL subs. First speakers I've had that don't need SUB support. 

These speakers use slot loading to simplify crossover parts and extend the bass. 

Compression tweeter through 15 inch coaxial and 18 Inch Bass driver. 

Dubious? Just look up ABX Audio or Ladolce Audio on Google for more info or sign up to Discord for all the plans and driver suggestions.

It was my first furniture type woodworking speaker project.

Hope you enjoy the process as much as I did.

Cheers! Tony. 

@toddalin 

I have owned planars, horns and box speakers. The OB speakers that have come through my room are the GR Research Super V, the Spatial Audio X3, and now the Qualio IQ. It is my opinion that the OB speakers image just as good as anything else I've owned and better than some. The key is having a space large enough to get them into the room and away from the wall behind them. 

Wharfedale SFB preceded the DQ10 by 20+ years. 

 

DeKay

The first open baffle speaker was the venerable Dahlquist DQ10. Below 300hz bass was handled by a sealed box woofer. The speaker was notably open and transparent sounding. I have a restored pair.

When Dizzy is blowing his horn, certainly some sound goes to the rear and bounces around.

But with open back, were talking essentially as much sound going "backward" as is going forward, and it’s out of phase. Maybe this is proper for a Leslie, and some percussion (including piano) but little else that primarily goes forward, including guitar amps, PA systems, and such.

It just doesn’t seem like it would present the same pin point imaging as two well placed speakers with no sound emanating to the rear except what is natural to the room they are being played in. But my listening to these OB systems is limited.

If there is anyone in the Orange County, CA area with a nice OB system that they would like to share, I would love to come hear it! Of course you would be welcome to come hear my offerings.

 

Also, I am of the opinion that when sound is coming from the rear and bouncing willy-nilly about the room, it may give a sense of depth to the soundstage but can’t really be good for imaging compared to a nice closed-back point or line source, or even time-aligned speaker.

@toddalin  Well, I’ll take the other side of that.  As a musician it’s obvious that musical instruments project sound in a 360 degree pattern, not just forward.  If the room can’t deal with that info then it’s a problem more with the room than the speakers.  When I’ve heard dipole designs from Spatial, Nola, etc., when they’re properly set up in a room they can be absolutely beguiling in a way traditional box speakers struggle to match.  And I’m a proud and happy owner of box speakers so not like I’m biased one way or the other.  That’s been my experience anyway. 

I have an old set of Emerald Physics CS2.3 open baffles with two Buckeye NCx500 amps, run through a MiniDSP Flex and its amazing sound, great bass too.  There is no lack of bass.  Dirac helps too. No shortage of frequency range or dB. Highly recommended.  Compared to Magnepan 3.7i  it's more "forceful" or physical sound that can be felt, the Magnepan is refined, not as much "feel" to the bass, not to say it's lacking, just different, refined.

I am intrigued by the open baffle speaker, but sadly it seems they must be a ways from a back wall to sound good. At least that's what I heard. In my space, the speakers need to be close to the rear wall so I guess I'll stick with my Harbeths.

I used to know this guy he was from Turkey ,he believed just have a big single speaker a woofer.Well 2 of them .He just hooked up wires from the receiver to the speaker and had them just up against ,his equipment stand ,and just play them.The guy was great at fixing broken audio equipment. He said you don't need a speaker in a cabinet just lay it up....