Network optimization for serious streamers

@tonywinga have you tried the LHY switch earlier in the chain ahead of your first FMC? Kind of like a pre filter? I have 2 Ethernet switches ahead of my FMC, one at the router, one in my listening room leading into my fiber. Then copper with a isolator into my server,streamer. Only clocking is on the USB side going into my LessLoss Echos End. 
 

Clean, detailed, black background, all the Audiophile cliches…..

I have thought about trying the SW-8 before the optical link. The LHY website shows the SW-8/SW-10 after the optical link. I’m thinking they may have determined that is the best way to go. They also show using two SW-10 network bridges linked by an optical cable. I think two SW-10’s would be overkill- but then that is not a word we use in hifi.

I might try removing the optical link to see how the SW-8 sounds alone. But in my mind I remember the not so subtle change that the optical link made to the sound. Additionally, I am thinking of running an Ethernet cable from this new network bridge to my Apple TV box. It will be a hassle and a lot of work but may well be worth it.

The HT system is at the opposite end of the house.

Btw- after 24 hours the top of the box of the SW-8 is at 84F. It has been on 24 hours now.  Ambient is still 72F.  Yesterday after a few hours the box temp was 88F.  Seems to be settling in. 

@singingg Nice, very thorough explanation with many iterations you've tried.

Optical vs ethernet seems a tossup, optical inherently filters, various ethernet filters also do fine job with lessening noise.

@tonywinga Your impressions mirror mine in terms of noise floor, slight improvement in detail, and bass (notably improved texture and definition). Was able to confirm by A/B testing last night which made the changes more noticeable.

Based on my understanding of how these work, I'd imagine the most effective placement is where the manufacturers all suggest: being the last step in the chain pre-transport/streamer.

The entry from me that follows is mostly a repeat of yesterdays post with one spelling correction, some clearer grammar, and slight content changes, in the attempt to be maximally clear and useful. This is my present understanding of the subject.

Has anyone taken the initiative to have someone who is competent test the effects of extreme WIFI RFI in routers? I think would be an easy test and that we all would benefit from the findings!! 

Wow. After a quick review of this thread, I’d like to make something clear to folks not familiar with streaming:

This thread is a DYI… techno-nerd thread. For folks fascinated with playing with technology. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. This is a “hobby”.

I have been in information technology for forty years. I implemented some of the first connected PCs in the 1980’s… then connected them globally. I implemented systems that run some of the largest companies on earth. I have implemented networking between enterprise mainframes and globally. I have been in charge of data centers running multi billion $ global corporations… with auxiliary generators the size of train locomotives.

For normal folks that want streaming to sound good… just buy a better streamer. No changes in networking equipment is required. The better quality streamer the better the sound. I have a $150K audiophile system running on a Netgear Modem / Router, with a wall wart wifi extender… I have heard a number of world class systems running this way. No more is required. 

If you want to fiddle with technology… go for it. But if you just want high end audiophile sound get a high end audiophile streamer.. I prefer Aurender. But there are other good ones… Aurlic, LUMIX.. This thread is about folks that love to play with technology.

@ghdprentice 

I have a $150K audiophile system running on a Netgear Modem / Router, with a wall wart wifi extender… I have heard a number of world class systems running this way. No more is required

Of course this represents heresy to the D.I.Y. streaming inclined. Another example of many roads leading to Rome.

Charles

My heart sunk as I read this, knowing I will want to get around to these details at some point and it seems like a lot of work… And here I thought I was done with major tweaks!  First thought I had reading through this was ok I need to quit streaming, that will be a much easier solution…

I believe that as with many audio related endeavors it boils down to choice and choosing among numerous alternatives. Audio streaming can be as complex/involved or straightforward/simpler as one desires. Successful end results are obtainable with either pathway.

@ghdprentice is not alone with his approach focused toward fewer network chain components and cabling and achieving excellent audio streaming sound quality. There are others who’ve done it this way and are thoroughly pleased. Those who’ve opted for the more multiple steps/components/cable D.I.Y. method are happy as well. High quality simplicity/minimalism is an attractive option for many.

Charles

@nyev

You’re no stranger to streaming / ethernet optimization. I subscribe to less is more thus using one device which operates as a bridge between my streamer and modem. When it comes to streaming, one needs to keep in mind a simple yet important concept of quality over quantity :-)

I found the hi end network streaming journey to be more complex than either CD or analog.  Streaming is becoming more plug and play than it was a few years ago when I started researching and planning for a streaming source.  I spent several months studying hi end streaming and visiting a hifi shop to hear DACs and network players.  The choices of configurations, capabilities and brands is bewildering.  I was like a novice all over again stepping into the world of hifi.  I had been using a hi end CD player for the last 15 years.  

I made a plan.  After some starts and redo's I decided that I first wanted to be able to play my CD collection so I wanted a DAC that had expandability, ie. it had to have multiple digital inputs.  I knew then that I wouldn't get a network player because I didn't want redundant DACs.  If I knew then what I know now, I would have bought a network player and skipped the CD transport.  The reason is that after I got my music server and ripped my CD collection to FLAC files.  I find the FLAC file sounds just as good as the CD- with my current USB cable.  And that is compared to my hi end CD Transport into my hi end DAC.  I say that but I also find letting go of my CD player is just as hard as letting go of my land line telephone.  Change is hard.  Plus I would have never known if the FLAC files matched my CD playback without trying it for myself.

Once I got my music server I began studying how best to bring in the ethernet signal.  In the end I found the most effective upgrade was simply putting an optical link between my router and my server.  It was a step change in the sound.  I also played around with different FMC's and found the kind with separate SFP's sound better.  That's it.  (Added LPS's to the FMC's of course).  Then just last week I added a very expensive network bridge.  Compared to the cost of my system it is not much of an add.  After listening for a few days I find this network bridge makes an incremental change for the better.  The bass sounds a bit better and the background in the music is quieter when streaming Qobuz.  How or why, don't know, don't care.  I'm enjoying it.  The optical link is one of the biggest bangs for the buck I have found in streaming.  A couple of hundred dollars in FMC's and Linear Power Supplies goes a long way.

Ok, I throw in one last thought.  Many on these forums demand to understand how cables can sound different, why or how digital data can sound different and so on.  Most of the time discoveries happen by trial and error and then people analyze and research to understand the mechanisms behind the discovery.  The audio industry grew out of these types of pioneers who with almost child like curiosity experimented with their ideas.  Many things we accept today as good audiophile practice were hotly debated topics decades ago.  You won't see gold plated connectors on hi end stereo gear until the late 1980's but by the late 1990's mid fi gear had gold plated connectors too.  Technology advances through innovations and evolution but it has a cost.  The top tier usually leads the way and then the technology trickles down to the lower cost gear.  The first CD players were expensive.  None of us would want to listen to them today.

As Charles mentioned one can make this as complex or simple as one likes. I happen to enjoy complexity and experimentation,this isn't a burden for me, and based on many posts in this thread, not a burden for those folks. Experiential learning  happens to be a favored method for gaining knowledge for many. I don't understand the criticism of us who choose this path, its not like we're proposing objective truths, merely our experiences with a variety of network devices and configurations. In essence we are gathering a sample size in order to determine whether various network devices or configurations are effective or not.

I understand some believe networks make little or no difference for streaming sound quality. Others maintain only simple or the least complex setups effective, and others only certain brand or model devices effective. I'm rather agnostic when it comes to other's specific network configurations or devices used. I also hold this view in regard to entire audio systems, I accept that people assemble audio systems for their own pleasure and tastes.

I may not agree with other's choices but I'm not going to deride those choices. ASR is a forum for the objectivist, I generally find this forum to be tolerant towards other's choices, observing streaming becoming more contentious over time.

I was speaking with Ric Shultz the other day about streaming. He is working on my Peachtree GAN1 amp which only has SPDIF as the input.

He was stating, like many people, that the digital signal must be clean and noise free otherwise, the signal is degraded. My understanding is that these 1’s and 0’s are created from electrical signals and this electricity can have noise. Now my question on this is does that matter for 1’s and 0’s. Would noise on the circuit make a 1 incorrectly into a 0 and or the other way around.

My layman’s understanding is that it does not matter and that by using fibre (and a FMC in front of fibre) will deliver a noise free bit perfect 1 and 0. So no analog noise gets into the DAC. I am not preaching this, I do not know, but this seems like a plausible explanation.

I am not ready to pay big money for an audiophile switch. They seem to just be repurposed consumer switches in a fancy case with a linear power supply and sometimes clock upgrade. You could probably get the same grade of switch and add your own power supply to it.

Speaking of which.... Christiaan Punter from Hi-Fi Advice in the Netherlands is a very careful reviewer I have been following for years. A recent review of the Lejonklou Kalla network player they suggested the best sounding cheap switch is the grey colored Netgear GS108T v2 (now v3 is available).

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/digital-reviews/network-player-reviews/lejonklou-kalla-network-player/2/

Then there is the Eno and Muon ethernet filters. These seem to be getting genuinely rave reviews, even from respected people like Hans Beekhuyzen. Its possible these noise filters are doing the same job as the optical modules, not letting that high frequency noise pass, but without all the hassle.

https://www.networkacoustics.com/

Interestingly Network Acoustics had their own network switch, the Rubicon (now NLA due to supply chain issues). But on its product page they say after an exhaustive evaluation process the iFi Elite 12v was the best power supply for it, not a linear power supply, or battery supply e.t.c

https://www.networkacoustics.com/shop/rubicon-network-switch/

I mention this because I have come to a similar conclusion. I found my best LPS, the Uptone JS-2, while fantastic on streamers and other hardware, did poorly on my routers and switches. Why? Perhaps the high frequency switching chips in network hardware is too fast for an LPS to provide instant power?

Some have positive experience with audiophile switches, likely poorest performing 'upgrade' ever experienced for me. So, was it particular switch chosen, switches in general, switch in my particular network to blame? I could jump to some overarching conclusion, not worth much for others IME. This experience also points to simpler is better, router direct to streamer vs router to switch to streamer. Should I conclude simpler better for everyone?

@charles1dad …”Of course this represents heresy to the D.I.Y. streaming inclined.”

Yes, of course. I am sure it is great fun. For fun, I did a bunch of DIY cables. For me, I quickly realized I had other things of greater priority. 
 

Yes, there are multiple paths.

Hi @ghdprentice 

Is your Wi-Fi extender connected via LAN cable to your Aurender or is it completely wireless?

Charles

General home networking products in the market so far and what most people use at home are 1GB speed rated. This is sufficient for most uses for any home user. 

The technology available when Ethernet standards for 1gb speed were current did not need to (or could not) address noise suppression as it did later on. Fast forward and today 1GB is considered outdated in the networking world but not so much in the consumer side. 

For a truly clean network one needs to use 10gbe or higher as 1000base-x (1gb fiber) is incapable of preventing noise. Using only copper does not eliminate common mode noise. Wifi is good but can add noise on the final leg. This does not mean all of the networking components have to be upgraded to high speed. Depending on the use and function various isolation methods can effectively coexist. Wifi is effective isolation for most devices. 1G Fiber is great for video and overall audio use. For serious audio streamers, one can just add a single 10gbe link in the network chain on the audio signal path to create a network isolation segment. Your favorite clocking device or other devices can remain after this segment and benefit from the change.

Adding two 10gbe fmc/switches connected by 10gbe sfp+ transceivers right before your audio endpoint you can create a very effective noise barrier. This 10gbe link does not need to perform any additional function (if you don't want it to) other than just to utilize the 10gbe network protocol (10GBase-X, IEEE 802.3ae or later).  Effectively this will block all jitter and network noise coming from upstream devices. The results are surprising. From a cost perspective this currently adds up to roughly 250-350 range. Of course, there are 100gbe components available now which will do all of that using just one unit but they are still very expensive. 

As most folks have encountered, there are many ways to go about getting to where you want to go. Just adding another shortcut in case it helps.

Article discussing 10gbe vs sfp+,https://www.fiberopticshare.com/10gb-ethernet-copper-optical-fiber.html

@charles1dad

My Aurenders are connected to my wifi extenders with an Ethernet cable.

George

@ghdprentice (George)

Thank you.

Charles

Hello @agisthos,

I am not ready to pay big money for an audiophile switch. They seem to just be repurposed consumer switches in a fancy case with a linear power supply and sometimes clock upgrade. You could probably get the same grade of switch and add your own power supply to it.

I had similar feelings of my first 'audiophile switch upgrade'.  but the JCAT M12 Gold is the real deal.  To me it was a great value for what it added. AND, the JCAT Optimo 3 power supply  for the M12 gold was also well worth it, to me.

Then there is the Eno and Muon ethernet filters. These seem to be getting genuinely rave reviews, even from respected people like Hans Beekhuyzen. Its possible these noise filters are doing the same job as the optical modules, not letting that high frequency noise pass, but without all the hassle.

+1 on Network Acoustic Filters.  I now have the Muon Pro Filter System and love it.  It is placed just in front of my streamer.  I also like  its passive nature, so no concerns about power supply.

So far no fiber for me....

@fastfreight hey nice find Fastfreight. I had not been on the JCAT site in a long time. The M12 Gold looks to be a real custom ground up design. This is what we want. The only other company I know who has built custom core switch hardware is Nordost with their just released QNET.

Both products, combined with their respective power supplies, are really getting up there in price though.

About the Muon... did you have the lower end Eno or Muon before, and if so how much better is the Muon Pro model? I too like it because its inline passive, not having to worry about yet another LPS, DC cable and AC power cable, which when done correctly literally triples the cost of any of these tweaks.

Good Morning @agisthos,

First, I believe the JCAT M12  Gold is similar / related to /  modified??? Telegartner Japan switch.  I found out much about it on the What's Best Audio forum.  I even hear there is a newer version of the M12 coming, but I am so good with my present M12 Gold. My M12 is located in my computer office, actually serving as switch between my Modem, Nucleus+, and two lines to my two main systems.  Some suggest better impact if placing the M12 switch right in front of my streamer, but I need a switch so upstream it went.

I have never owned or heard an Eno.  I first got a Muon (system, with the second cable) last year and absolutely loved it.  So much I bought a second, so one for each system.  When I added an Auralic Aries G2.1 with the Muon, I had connection issues.  Now I have the new 1G/s Muon Pro.  It connects perfectly with my 1G needy Auralic streamer.  AND, to us, the Muon Pro System sounds even better than the Muon.  Since we never know what speeds may later prove to be a bottleneck, I would strongly say just get the Pro System.  I also originally started with an EtherRegen, which did help also, but is not needed with the Muon.

Hope that helps!

@fastfreight 

Now I have the new 1G/s Muon Pro.  It connects perfectly with my 1G needy Auralic streamer.  AND, to us, the Muon Pro System sounds even better than the Muon.  Since we never know what speeds may later prove to be a bottleneck, I would strongly say just get the Pro System.  

Thanks for your feedback.Network Acoustics Muon filtering system I’m convinced is the real deal.

Charles 

There is a lot of ethernet filters out there but the Muon seems to have the best listener reports. I was thinking to get one of these to put just before my Lindemann streamer. I want to keep the router, wireless and switch in the other room, powered on a separate line to the main system. 

@fastfreight did you end up also using the matching Network Acoustics LAN cable?

“I even hear there is a newer version of the M12 coming”
@fastfreight

The newer version dubbed as PREMIUM is purposely redesigned for a more energetic sound over M12 Gold Switch. And then, their newest Telegartner Opt Bridge 1000M with dual DC power supply. I can’t wait to find out what this Bridge brings to the table before my M12 Gold Switch with JCAT Optimo Duo power supply :-)

Hi @agisthos,

At the switch end I use four JCAT M12 Gold cables (two came with the M12).  These are 2m each. They go to my Modem, the Nucleus and both systems.  To extend the LAN to my music areas, I use the Supra Cat 8.  I connect the M12 Gold cable to the Supra with JCAT Net Isolators, which are the best LAN coupler I see available.

At the streamer end, I connect the Supra Cat 8 directly to the Network Acoustics Muon Pro cable, again using a JCAT Net Isolator.  I avoid any wall plates and run the Supra through the wall.  I could connect the Supra directly into the Muon Pro Filter, but Rich at NA says use their Muon Pro Cable into the filter for best performance.

You guys should try this LAN cable, spectacular!

Quick update. Have had more time with the system with the LHY in the chain and can confirm, it definitely has positively impacted musicality, noise floor, and bass definition. I did more A/B testing including with my fiance (who's my litmus test) and she noted the same improvements. Not night and day improvement on what I consider was already very good, but a few percentage points improvement in the aforementioned areas.

This is one of those things where before I got into this hobby, I never would have realized how so many points of a system matter to the sound quality of it. But it does. I'm a big fan of simplicity so my network side will stay as is with the LHY being the final connection pre-streamer.

Just do what works for you.

My system is perfect for me know and 10G FMC and Transceivers were the ticket. 

I have the same experience as christianb5s4 with my new LHY SW-8 network switch.  Additionally, I spent about 6 hours yesterday running a Cat 7 ethernet cable across the house from the SW-8 to my Apple TV box.  It was a small upgrade to the tv picture but enough to motivate me to drill through walls and crawl under the house to run this ethernet cable.

My next upgrade was switching out the SFP's in my FMC's to Finisar model 1475 SFPs.  (To translate:  The plug in Laser TXRX cartridges in the Fiber Media Converters.)  I came across a post somewhere on these pages recommending these SFP's.  So further down the rabbit hole I go.  I didn't really expect much but I detect a small change- for me at least.  One streaming song I have listened to and am familiar with has a cello that didn't ever sound quite right to me.  Every time I heard it I wanted to fix the sound of that cello.  Well, when I played that song with the Finisar 1475's in place, the cello sounded more natural.  I don't know if it was my mood, the air temperature or really the SFP's but the cello sounded better.  I played the song again a couple of hours later and the cello still sounds more natural to me.  Crazy stuff this digital- and if I am deluding myself, so what?  These SFP's were not cheap but not a whole lot of money overall, if they bring me happiness.  I streamed last night and got lost in the music- no picking apart the sounds or dissecting the sound stage, just listening.  I'm very satisfied now with the sound of streaming.

Regarding "wall wart wifi over power line" devices. Worst idea ever. Folks with turntables know as the resulting audible noise makes listening impossible. One may not hear the audible noise at line levels but it's still degrading the sound quality.

Audiophiles often spend a lot of time and money to improve AC quality to their music systems. Injecting high frequency signals on the power line makes zero sense.

BTW, here's a reasonably priced, non-audiophile approved wired ethernet filter pair. I wonder how this compares to the vastly more expensive audiophile versions.

DX Engineering ISO-PLUS Ethernet RF Filters

Interesting thread. I'm also in the network optimization bandwagon, and there are new things for me to consider here.

My system is based on Roon Server running on a generic PC and an optimized (no motors, headless, server mobo) Audio PC connected to DAC. I get internet thru coax into a router/modem provided by ISP. I'm in the process of testing an LPS for this. I do have wifi on,  so that's something to try. From that router I have CAT 6 cable to a switch connecting the house included the Roon Server PC. Another ethernet cable from the ISP router goes into an etherRegen with DX ISO-Plus, then out thru Finisair optical modules and fiber onto a second etherRegen with LPS, then onto good ethernet cable and into Audio PC.

I will try disabling wifi, which should reduce noise both for the Audio PC and Roon Server. However I will still have 70 feet of unshielded CAT 6 between router and switch, noisy power for switch, etc. What would be a better configuration if using Roon? I've been thinking what happens on the Roon Server is not as important as what happens before the Audio PC playing just Roon Bridge.

Hey @lewinskih01 - Sounds like we have similar setups. I’ve focused on two areas:

• Noise control
• Surge control

I live in a storm/lightning prone area. Outside the house I use a gas discharge based coax surge suppressor attached to the necessary grounding block. I don’t think this improves my musical experience except in that it limits the voltage that can come in. Given how many items I have using Ethernet here I have more items at risk of surge damage from the cable provider than most people.

I used to use fiber adapters as both surge blockers (can’t surge through fiber!) and noise suppression but have simplified all of that to using 4kV Ethernet isolators. One after the modem (just in case!!) and one before my HT switch. It’s at the end of a 30’ run so risks having an induced surge.

Lastly, I use iFi power supplies on my DAC and streamers.

I feel better having LESS power supplies than more, and every time you add a fiber adapter you end up with more power supplies in your system and additional surge paths, not to mention a little more latency and network jitter.

I also use a shielded power cable to my integrated amplifier, in the hopes of minimizing EMI/RFI from all the other cables (Ethernet, HDMI, power, etc.) running around my system.

The issue with filters and such is you're ONLY CLEANING up corruption/noise further up chain. Point of this entire thread is to try to AVOID the need to CLEAN up that noise, this is only band aid covering up the wound. YOU CAN'T GET BACK WHATS BEEN LOST PRIOR IN CHAIN!

If you are using Ethernet in the home, and you have ANY packet loss or retransmissions you have a serious issue.

@erik_squires

"If you are using Ethernet in the home, and you have ANY packet loss or retransmissions you have a serious issue."

Would you clarify what you mean? Occasionally when listening to Qobuz over my 100% wired ethernet the music will pause. I have come to accept this as packet/packets that have gotten delayed, maybe taking a left turn into Russia encountering the KGB. If I wait patiently, sometimes up to a minute, the packets will appear and the music resumes automatically without further glitches. Thanks.

Would you clarify what you mean? Occasionally when listening to Qobuz over my 100% wired ethernet the music will pause. I have come to accept this as packet/packets that have gotten delayed, maybe taking a left turn into Russia encountering the KGB.

Hey @singingg - I meant that within the boundaries of your home Local Area Network (LAN) there should be zero packet loss, corruption or delay. Well, at least under 1 millisecond ping times from any device to any other device. However, as you are imagining, we have no control over the Wide Area Network (WAN) outside our homes. The quality of service between Qobuz and your home is always a variable condition.

My point was that once a packet is in your home it should be re transmitted nearly instantly and without error to any other point in your home if it’s on Ethernet, and if in an isolated Wifi pretty close to it.

A good streamer will buffer several seconds (30 is not unreasonable) of music from a streaming source to mask most short Internet interruptions. If the Internet goes down for 5 seconds (as an example) the streamer can attempt to reconnect in the background while feeding the DAC from cache so we aren't even aware something happened. If you can adjust the buffer size/length it may be worth doing.

Hello guys. Any gals?

1. As is often the case, a system improvement can create wonderful repercussions throughout a system. I reported removing the optical filter from my network. In doing so I removed two FMCs, a FO cable, LPS and PC. I would like to use that LPS in my system, if I could find a 9v SMPS. After a couple of days I was on my hands and knees peering at the PS for my Origin Live motor controller on my mono TT and discovered a 9v SMPS! Installing the LPS resulted in what I would describe as refined pacing, bringing profound realness/presence to the musicians.

Inspired, I knew that my Project Speed Box S2 motor controller, used on my stereo table, had a SMPS. Last year I had retired an Sbooster LPS when I found one that performed better for a phono preamp. I tried it on that controller and the sonic impact was unbelievable. Now I will have to listen to my 6000 LPs all over again!

I love it when I get lucky!

2. I have been mulling over the phenomenon of ethernet noise. I reported that I am not finding any. Noise is our enemy because it results in deformity, masking of silences, colorations. My streaming sounds identical or better in direct comparison to physical media. When I listen to my network there are no computers or any other tasks in operation other than delivery of music packets, because I have no unruly teenagers or recalcitrant significant others to deal with. Now if I had a bank of computers crunching the stock, bond, commodity markets, and FOREX, with the goal of getting the bucks for a $7-figure system, operating on the same network, then I would expect finding music listening impossible. Isn’t this the same as those who find listening at night an improvement when the electric grid is quieter?

3. Extrapolating on this experience, I now KNOW I have to replace the SMPS with LPS on the ONT and router from my ISP. A jump in performance awaits me. I have picked out the models and I am searching searching for a good price. Patience, patience.

Now if I had a bank of computers crunching the stock, bond, commodity markets, and FOREX, with the goal of getting the bucks for a $7-figure system, operating on the same network, then I would expect finding music listening impossible. Isn’t this the same as those who find listening at night an improvement when the electric grid is quieter?

I don’t think that this has much to do with Ethernet propagated noise as much as AC line noise. I try really hard to keep my computer items outside of my clean, filtered power zone.

I also use Ethernet isolators but mainly for surge, and a little for noise. Cheap peace of mind.

It seems the best solution is to wire your house with Ethernet ports, then turn wireless off permanently in the modem/router no?

Honestly an impossible task for me. If you live near other homes you also have to contend with their Wifi signals. The number of wifi only devices I have in the home has blossomed:

• Fire alarms
• Thermostats
• Lights, etc.

I do however keep my streamer’s Wifi disabled to minmize the RF/EMI right next to the analog gear.

I guess my daughter is right, "Dad you are a music nerd" 

@singingg 

"3. Extrapolating on this experience, I now KNOW I have to replace the SMPS with LPS on the ONT and router from my ISP. A jump in performance awaits me. I have picked out the models and I am searching searching for a good price. Patience, patience." -This is where I am at now too. What LPS are you going to use? Are you going to get a dual rail LPS or two single rail? Of use one single rail with a Yspliter to power both? Thanks for sharing.

Be mindful of the current draw of the devices you will power with the LPS and the current output capability of the LPS you select.

I now KNOW I have to replace the SMPS with LPS on the ONT and router from my ISP.

I tried to do this with my Verizon FIOS G3100 router, and I failed:

Why? Couldn’t find the wiring and dimensions of its DC input connector. None of the standard ones work. And the Verizon folks had no clue. As usual. I tried everything.

I wouldn’t mess with ONT. it’s outside the house, back wall, and I don’t even know how it gets the power

@pokey77

Hey guys,

I use ATT. The router uses 12v 3A so my plan is iFi iPower Elite Power Supply.

The ONT is in the house above the baseboard and the accompanying SMPS is rated 12v .6A so my plan is iFi iPower X Ultra Low Noise AC/DC Power Supply. I already use 3 of these and they are fantastic when paired with the right component.

Now that you mention it the iFi Elite could cover both with the splitter that I already have. I’ll give it some more thought.

The other possibility is a Keces P6 which could cover both.

I would love to entertain other suggestions!