In my ongoing experiments, now going on seven years, with network optimization for streaming I've discovered a number of optimizations that should work with any ethernet ISP.
I've tried a variety of ethernet cables, modems, routers, switches, FMC, ethernet filters, the following is what I've found to be most effective optimizations.
I'll start with ISP quality and speed. Recently I discovered 500mbps to be preferable to 300mbps. Along with upgrade in speed, modem capable of 1gb service replaced 600mbps, both have Broadcom chips and powered by same lps. Can't say which more responsible for improvement, speed or modem, presume speed has at least some role in ping time. As for ISP, there is importance in ISP server geographic location to you, shorter distances means lower ping time. For information as to how ping time affects jitter-https://www.fusionconnect.com/speed-test-plus/ping-jitter-test
Now for modems, modem close to audio system is most favorable, extending coax cable preferable to long ethernet cable. Coax more resistant to rfi and closer positioning to system means one can more easily afford top quality ethernet cable for modem to router connection. The modem should use Broadcom chipset vs. inferior Intel Puma, Broadcom chipset has lower jitter vs the Intel. Modem should be powered via external lps using quality DC and AC cables, lps to power conditioner for ultimate performance.
Following close positioning of modem to audio system, router should also be placed near modem in service of same advantage of making highest quality ethernet cable more affordable, in this case, modem to router and router to switches, streamers and NAS. Router should be powered with lps, this lps should be able to provide more amps than router requires in service of providing greater reliability, having lps with reserves of amperage means lps runs cooler, heat is enemy of reliability, longevity. As with modem, quality dc, ac cables and connection to power conditioner.
The next finding is new to me, provides very meaningful upgrade to streaming sound quality. Noise from wifi, injected both internally to router and externally with routers sitting close to audio systems has long been a concern to me. I have quality Trifield meter which measures rfi, router with operational wifi manufacture obscenely high levels of rfi, rfi is noise, noise is enemy of streaming at level we're talking about here. And its very likely the more wifi devices one has in home the higher the levels of rfi produced. This noise is then injected into following cables and streaming equipment. One may convince themselves FMC totally isolates this noise, and while correct, it doesn't mitigate the noise and masking going on within router. The only way to eliminate this noise is turning off wifi. And then, how to provide wifi for the many wifi devices we have at home? The answer is to connect a second router to the primary router. The primary router will only provide ethernet for streamers, switches and/or NAS in audio system, also for the second router. Second router provides wifi for the home, this scheme keeps vast majority of rfi out of audio system streaming chain. My own measurements find rfi significantly diminished in primary router, more than mulitiples of ten times lower vs wifi enabled. This was seamless install with the Netgear routers I'm using. There may also be value in provisioning higher quality routers. My new primary router, Netgear XR1000 is marketed as a gamer router, claims of lower ping time, latency, jitter vs other routers. Since my old router, Netgear RS7000 didn't have means to monitor ping time I can't provide evidence of this claim. Whatever the case, my XR1000 ping time test measurements are as follows, 25.35ms highest, 16.50ms lowest, this is A+ measurements against objective criteria. Ping time under load is download 25.93ms, upload 37.34ms, idle 17.31ms, this rates as A. My speed of 565gbps rates B grade, likely need 1gb service to get A here. At to how this all pertains to sound quality, adding up the upgrade in ISP speed and the off loading of wifi is without a doubt one of the most substantial, if not most substantial network upgrades I've experienced. While I long considered my setup as having a vanishing low noise floor, with this setup I heard a new level of vanishing if such a thing is possible. Even more astounding was a more analog like presentation, while I wasn't aware of even the slightest digital presentation prior, this upgrade certainly exposed it was indeed there. It seems logical to conclude there has been some lowering of jitter here.
And then we come to the ethernet filter. I suppose audiophile switches can be considered as one, then we have actual filters such as Network Acoustics Muon, my JCAT Net XE and others. I continue to believe these necessary even with the all measures above.
Optical conversion is also valid approach post router. While I found generic FMC somewhat effective, at this point I prefer ethernet. On the other hand I've not yet tried optimizing a fiber solution, for example two Sonore OpticalModules, both powered by lps, further upgraded with Finisar optical transceivers.
Assuming one has high resolving audio and streaming systems the above network optimizations should provide for substantial sound quality improvements. In my system, perception of performers in room has been taken to a new level of intimacy, meaning a more emotional connection to the performers and performance.
At this point, I consider network has been fully optimized, the only upgrade I'm aware of would be ISP upgrade to 1gb.
Just wanted to add that I followed sns's recommendations pretty closely and found it greatly improved streaming. (I was naively using wifi.) Not too much money as I bought the Ethernet cables, a SW6 switch, and a LPS from Aliexpress.
My final step is to get a power conditioner. Not sure how many plugs I need on the conditioner. I've got Triton One.Rs. I'm leaning towards a PSM156, but I'm not sure it's good for my amp and the Triton subwoofers. Shunyata Research conditioners claim to be OK with power amps, but I'm not sure about Puratin. I have a dedicated 20 amp line and Audience outlets, so maybe I just plug the amps into the wall and the rest into a PSM156?
@tonywingaI also found that while the fiber optic sound was ever so clean using an Audio Sensibility Signature I2S Ethernet Cable sounded less sterile. If you will, less digital and more analog sounding. Is there such a thing as too clean sounding? For me yes. YMMV.
My B system has silver plated speaker wire and that’s copacetic too. Naturally silver plated isn’t a panacea for all systems or certain parts of the chain.
One simple but highly effective tweak: I use a PinkFaun Isolator directly into my InnuOS streamer and a second EMO Isolator ahead of the switch. While ai agree that avoiding EMI/RMI ingress is crucial, it is very hard to avoid, hence the double Isolators.
The ones I used are the Pangea SE and the AQ Cinnamon. Both have silver plated wire. I didn’t hear a difference between these two brands. But both are a nice step up in sound from basic Ethernet cables. These are little more budget friendly than the DH Labs ethernet cable. The DH Labs have a much thicker silver plating. Makes me wonder if I could hear a difference.
I understand you spoke about the 'silver plated wire' in anonymity, but I'm not sure who sells Network cables that have this topology, except I am assuming Nordost does. Do you mind sharing what others you found? And I'm also curious how you determined that silver plated wire was better or different than say copper wire or solid silver wire. I believe the different Network cables I've used are copper.
My latest experience with streaming: First, I found adding fiber optic between the router and music server was a big improvement in the sound of streaming. Added 5VDC LPS's and Finisar SFPs to the FMCs for additional improvement. Then last Spring I added the LHY-8 network switch between the fiber optic and the music server. The addition of some short, silver plated wire ethernet cables between router and FMC/FMC and network switch made for some of the best streaming to date.
A couple of weeks ago I decided to experiment and removed the fiber optic link between my router and LHY-8 network switch. I was surprised to find the sound was slightly more dynamic. I needed a 5 meter long ethernet cable to replace the fiber optic cable but the only thing I had was a basic $10 cable. The imaging lost some focus, I noticed. But overall, the sound was better w/o using both the fiber and the network switch together. So I purposefully left the basic ethernet cable in the chain for two weeks to get to know the system as is. Finally, I replaced the $10, 5 meter long ethernet cable with a silver plated wire version. I let it run in for a day and gave the system a listen. Bam! Sharp focused imaging is back. Highs are a bit smoother and the mid bass a bit richer.
Conclusions: 1) Fiber optic in the chain from router to network player improves the sound of streaming. Big bang for the buck improvement. 2) High quality network switch can do the same job as fiber optic with even better performance although not quite the sound per dollar performance gain as just adding fiber. 3) Silver plated wire ethernet cables are a must for the best streaming performance. (I also have a short silver plated wire ethernet cable from modem to router.)
For our applications we are 100% fiber (our entire city is FO), inside and out. No messing around with Wi-Fi on our audio front end, business laptops only and the routers are located away from our listening spaces.
Also here is a list of modems to avoid due to chipset implementation.
@fastfreight: Technically the CR1000 is much superior. It has Wi-Fi 6E support which opens up the 6Ghz band which could be a game changer but very few devices support 6Ghz right now. More devices will surely join and provide connectivity down the road. Also it has multi gig capacity with WAN port capability of 10 gigabit, and one of the LAN ports also 10 gig. And if you are using MoCA, which I do, the coax LAN is MoCA 2.5 spec
I just chatted with Verizon tech. Explained I had some drop outs and wondered if the CR1000 was better. He said no. He gave me my option of a new G3100 or a new CR1000A. So I have a new G3100 coming. I hope I remember to also return the old [power supply :).
@fastfreight: I still have the G3100. Unfortunately the G3100 and CR1000a have completely different SMPSs bricks, and different barrel connectors. They don’t work with each other. I just checked. The power requirements are also different, both 12v, but the CR1000a needs 5A (vs. 3.5A for G3100).
@thynameet al, Does anyone know if the G3100 and the Cr1000a (or(b) share the same DC plug receptacle? Switching the routers is easier than switching the DC plugs! I was told I was getting the Cr1000a and the G3100 arrived. Both were current models. I use the term modem (perhaps incorrectly) as I disable the wifi. Both are gigabit capable. I never have issues streaming video, but occasionally get drop outs (stopping) of my Roon. I do have fiber and an ONT in my garage. Thanks
@fastfreightthe current Verizon router is the CR1000a. And the CR1000b (basically same hardware and software as the “a”, just different manufacturer). The g3100 is the previous router. There are no modems with Verizon, just ONT (optical network terminal that converts fiber to copper, typically installed outside the house, or in basement) and the router. I am grandfathered to the previous Ultimate tv package (I use TiVo, Edge DVR and four Minis and only pay $5 per month to Verizon for the CableCard). So I don’t want to screw up the deal. It’s $139 a month including Gigabit internet. So I just buy the routers on eBay. I paid about $175 for the CR1000a about a month ago on eBay, brand new sealed. Verizon want $400 for it or $18 a month rent. Ridiculous. I also own two E3200 extenders, connected via MoCA. One upstairs and one for downstairs. Own them outright too
I called to upgrade to 1G with Verizon Fios, and they sent me the G3100 Modem for free and gave me the same channels and it cost the same as my previous service with 100 KB service. I was planning to purchase the Modem from Amazon, and was calling to order the service.
@carlsbad2: Verizon FIOS Gigabit service. Technically 940/880 Mbps (download/ upload). I get a solid 600-700 Mbps download speed on my iPad Pro (on Wi-Fi), and close to 900+ wired laptop to my router
Verizon FIOS isn’t available here. ATT has a fiber option available with a whopping 50Mbs claimed speed.
the wireless (5G) options probably all suck because California is so hard to get permits for installation of equipment. We develop all the technology here but always lag the installation which occurs first in more business firendly states. I still have very poor Verizon cell service at my home is a very fasionalble suburb of San Diego.
@carlsbad2: I am not familiar with Spectrum, as it’s not available in my area. I have Verizon FIOS. My other option for ISP is Cox, which I used to have years ago. Verizon FIOS is hands down better, I think there is also T-Mobile 5G home internet available now (via 5G wireless), but not sure
@thynameI see (not that Jerry) in this thread and I'm not sure what Jerry they are talking about. Glad it isn't me.
My ISP is Spectrum Cable. Obviously if you want cable internet you either take the cable provider in your neighborhood or move. I'm not likely to move (ever).
Other aptions may be fiber eventually but last I checked it wasn't available. The wireless internets touted by various phone companies have been tried by coworkers and neighbors and are very bad at this time.
Speed test gives me consistently around 360 Mbs download and 11 Mbs upload.
I was looking quickly this morning before I left the house for my hike. I'll probably go GHz soon. The cable company says I'll need an upgraded modem. Maybe if I go Ghz and then if I don't see the benefit go back to 300Mhz, I'll get to keep the upgraded modem.
@carlsbad2: Innuos Zennith MK3 is definitely gigabit. A bit lazy now to send you a link, but it’s right there under specs on official Innuos page. How do I know? I have the Innuos and just bought the Muon Pro system about a month ago. I made sure everything in my chain is gigabit before doing so
@lalitkthanks for your reply. I don’t see in the literature any reference to streaming rates. It is an Innuos Zenith MK3, nearly new, so I assume it will support GHz streaming.
I have 300MBS internet. I can upgrade to 500 for $240/yr or 1g for $480/yr.
everything I read says 300 is more than enough. I stream music, an occasional 4k movie, and normal computer use. I use Microsoft teams for meetings and don’t game. My audio is wired to the modem.
In audio, I know that conventiional thinking isn’t always true. For example, power supplies have to be way oversized to deal with dynamics.
Anybody have an argument why I need faster internet?
I vote for 2nd M12 premium…lol! All jokes aside, if you’re using a Muon Pro ahead of MU1, do you think adding a 2nd M12 would further improve performance? I’m also running a 50FT LAN from my Xfinity modem to my M12, then 1.0M JCAT Signature Gold M12 LAN from M12 switch to +player. I’ve been contemplating to add Telegartner OPT BRIDGE 1000M Optical Isolator between my 50FT LAN and M12 Switch and hopefully I’m done with tweaking the Ethernet.
Many experiments from top companies were done 1gig is Waay to noisy for music
look up innuos they built a state ofthe art switch from scratch ,they use 100 megabyte , loook up their ethernetswutcg ,my brother bought it I tried it in my system it made a profound difference . At $3600 retail my brother paid around $3k
I may buy one later in the year ,I would also like to mention buy a decent LPS for your router ,I bought the latest Motorola 8702 modem-router combo .
linear tube audio the best LPS under $1300 for $750 12v- 8 amps on tap with a excellent DC cable most charge over $100 extra ,and put a synergistic purple in it easy to hear improvements after fully 250 hours and a Pangea awg14 sig mk2=
if truly serious about streaming this is the recipe ,being in a sizable audio club we test many items and ,best for money $595 SW8 Ethernet switch
the best built and sounding the innuos Ethernet switch retail $3600 but great sounding ,every item needs a decent power cord ,the Pangea for $200 excellent using Cardas grade1 Copper ,and synergistic purple fuse this adds a min of 10% to the cheaper switch in fidelity ,the innuos also benefits.
One little (probably minor) remark: what if you can get your M12 switch closer to your audio system?
Yes this has been mentioned and considered. When I first got the M12, I tried it right in front of my streamer; it sounded amazing. But, I need a switch where it is now (feeding two wired audio systems), so that is where I thought it should go. It may or may not sound quite as impactful that far upstream. Options would be to put a more 'regular' switch where the M12 is and place the M12 right after (or in front of? ) the Muon Pro. I do not want to go backwards though with an inferior switch.
Or, add a second M12 at the system. This I resisted since the M12 and its wires look a little like an Edward Scissorhands haircut! thoughts??? and of course now there is the M12 PREMIUM!
So I have Verizon G3100 modem (with wifi disabled), (and working on using one of my LPS with it after I conquer the DC barrel end fitting), feeding M12 Gold Switch with matching 1.5m M12 ethernet cables and nice LPS. From the M12 I run 15 and 20 meter Supra Cat 8 to my music rooms. There, I have NA Muon Pro Filter Systems feeding Grimm MU1
I have to say, this is the most elaborate network improvement I have ever encountered. In person or online. Kudos to you!
One little (probably minor) remark: what if you can get your M12 switch closer to your audio system?
What about this Ubiquiti Unifi Security Gateway (USG) directly connected to the modem and then CAT8 from the USG to my system and a second CAT8 from the USG to my mesh system router feeding my house. Wouldn’t that separate the system from the rest of my home’s internet usage?
Hello @Mitch2, I have attempted to get my wifi router out of my audio chain.
So I have Verizon G3100 modem (with wifi disabled), (and working on using one of my LPS with it after I conquer the DC barrel end fitting), feeding M12 Gold Switch with matching 1.5m M12 ethernet cables and nice LPS. From the M12 I run 15 and 20 meter Supra Cat 8 to my music rooms. There, I have NA Muon Pro Filter Systems feeding Grimm MU1, and K-S Elation AES into my Tambaqui. For my wifi, a separate feed from the Verizon Modem connects to my Eero Pro Mesh wifi system. My thinking is this puts the wifi part of everything separate from the M12 switch side, feeding my music.
I have HD Plex LPS on both modem and router, use Bonn N8 switches with LPS, muon system to streamer, JCAT cards in streamer, and I run 45 feet of CAT8 directly from my Orbi mesh router to my system.
Are you suggesting I might hear an sonic improvement by installing another router to take the signal directly from my modem and then directly feeding both the CAT8 to my system and an Ethernet cable to my Orbi mesh router, and then the Orbi system would wirelessly serve the general wi-fi duties for the house? In that case, the first router, feeding my system and also feeding the second (Orbi) router, would not even need to be capable of routing a wireless signal since the only two connections would be hardwired. Is there a certain type of router that is best suited to hard wired connections only that I should look at for that application?
On another note, I have upgraded my Verizon router to the latest & greatest one, the CR1000a. I have had no time to observe the DC barrel plug sizing of the new router, but I plan to do so soon.
@lalitkI've tried so many different DC cables (including KS realization), and they all sound different. Even different xfinity cable modem/router models sound different. The Motorola xfinity docsis 3.1 model is the best sounding unit to me.
@macdude@lalitk, I am working on this. I have obtained a spare Verizon power supply and sent it along with my Realization DC cable to KS for retermination. what is the deal with the barrel connector from Verizon? The outside dimension seems to match an adapter I have, but is it the inside center pin connector? Is this a proprietary design or non standard connector from Verizon? Sucks to be humbled by such a seemingly simple part in a complex chain...
I am sure we would enjoy each other’s systems. Check out the Baltimore orthodontic group in Ellicott city. They have a great receptionist that is efficient with Messages.
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