@thyname et al, Does anyone know if the G3100 and the Cr1000a (or(b) share the same DC plug receptacle? Switching the routers is easier than switching the DC plugs! I was told I was getting the Cr1000a and the G3100 arrived. Both were current models. I use the term modem (perhaps incorrectly) as I disable the wifi. Both are gigabit capable. I never have issues streaming video, but occasionally get drop outs (stopping) of my Roon. I do have fiber and an ONT in my garage. Thanks
Network optimization for serious streamers
In my ongoing experiments, now going on seven years, with network optimization for streaming I've discovered a number of optimizations that should work with any ethernet ISP.
I've tried a variety of ethernet cables, modems, routers, switches, FMC, ethernet filters, the following is what I've found to be most effective optimizations.
I'll start with ISP quality and speed. Recently I discovered 500mbps to be preferable to 300mbps. Along with upgrade in speed, modem capable of 1gb service replaced 600mbps, both have Broadcom chips and powered by same lps. Can't say which more responsible for improvement, speed or modem, presume speed has at least some role in ping time. As for ISP, there is importance in ISP server geographic location to you, shorter distances means lower ping time. For information as to how ping time affects jitter-https://www.fusionconnect.com/speed-test-plus/ping-jitter-test
Now for modems, modem close to audio system is most favorable, extending coax cable preferable to long ethernet cable. Coax more resistant to rfi and closer positioning to system means one can more easily afford top quality ethernet cable for modem to router connection. The modem should use Broadcom chipset vs. inferior Intel Puma, Broadcom chipset has lower jitter vs the Intel. Modem should be powered via external lps using quality DC and AC cables, lps to power conditioner for ultimate performance.
Following close positioning of modem to audio system, router should also be placed near modem in service of same advantage of making highest quality ethernet cable more affordable, in this case, modem to router and router to switches, streamers and NAS. Router should be powered with lps, this lps should be able to provide more amps than router requires in service of providing greater reliability, having lps with reserves of amperage means lps runs cooler, heat is enemy of reliability, longevity. As with modem, quality dc, ac cables and connection to power conditioner.
The next finding is new to me, provides very meaningful upgrade to streaming sound quality. Noise from wifi, injected both internally to router and externally with routers sitting close to audio systems has long been a concern to me. I have quality Trifield meter which measures rfi, router with operational wifi manufacture obscenely high levels of rfi, rfi is noise, noise is enemy of streaming at level we're talking about here. And its very likely the more wifi devices one has in home the higher the levels of rfi produced. This noise is then injected into following cables and streaming equipment. One may convince themselves FMC totally isolates this noise, and while correct, it doesn't mitigate the noise and masking going on within router. The only way to eliminate this noise is turning off wifi. And then, how to provide wifi for the many wifi devices we have at home? The answer is to connect a second router to the primary router. The primary router will only provide ethernet for streamers, switches and/or NAS in audio system, also for the second router. Second router provides wifi for the home, this scheme keeps vast majority of rfi out of audio system streaming chain. My own measurements find rfi significantly diminished in primary router, more than mulitiples of ten times lower vs wifi enabled. This was seamless install with the Netgear routers I'm using. There may also be value in provisioning higher quality routers. My new primary router, Netgear XR1000 is marketed as a gamer router, claims of lower ping time, latency, jitter vs other routers. Since my old router, Netgear RS7000 didn't have means to monitor ping time I can't provide evidence of this claim. Whatever the case, my XR1000 ping time test measurements are as follows, 25.35ms highest, 16.50ms lowest, this is A+ measurements against objective criteria. Ping time under load is download 25.93ms, upload 37.34ms, idle 17.31ms, this rates as A. My speed of 565gbps rates B grade, likely need 1gb service to get A here. At to how this all pertains to sound quality, adding up the upgrade in ISP speed and the off loading of wifi is without a doubt one of the most substantial, if not most substantial network upgrades I've experienced. While I long considered my setup as having a vanishing low noise floor, with this setup I heard a new level of vanishing if such a thing is possible. Even more astounding was a more analog like presentation, while I wasn't aware of even the slightest digital presentation prior, this upgrade certainly exposed it was indeed there. It seems logical to conclude there has been some lowering of jitter here.
And then we come to the ethernet filter. I suppose audiophile switches can be considered as one, then we have actual filters such as Network Acoustics Muon, my JCAT Net XE and others. I continue to believe these necessary even with the all measures above.
Optical conversion is also valid approach post router. While I found generic FMC somewhat effective, at this point I prefer ethernet. On the other hand I've not yet tried optimizing a fiber solution, for example two Sonore OpticalModules, both powered by lps, further upgraded with Finisar optical transceivers.
Assuming one has high resolving audio and streaming systems the above network optimizations should provide for substantial sound quality improvements. In my system, perception of performers in room has been taken to a new level of intimacy, meaning a more emotional connection to the performers and performance.
At this point, I consider network has been fully optimized, the only upgrade I'm aware of would be ISP upgrade to 1gb.
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@fastfreight : I still have the G3100. Unfortunately the G3100 and CR1000a have completely different SMPSs bricks, and different barrel connectors. They don’t work with each other. I just checked. The power requirements are also different, both 12v, but the CR1000a needs 5A (vs. 3.5A for G3100).
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@fastfreight : Technically the CR1000 is much superior. It has Wi-Fi 6E support which opens up the 6Ghz band which could be a game changer but very few devices support 6Ghz right now. More devices will surely join and provide connectivity down the road. Also it has multi gig capacity with WAN port capability of 10 gigabit, and one of the LAN ports also 10 gig. And if you are using MoCA, which I do, the coax LAN is MoCA 2.5 spec |
For our applications we are 100% fiber (our entire city is FO), inside and out. No messing around with Wi-Fi on our audio front end, business laptops only and the routers are located away from our listening spaces. Also here is a list of modems to avoid due to chipset implementation. https://approvedmodemlist.com/intel-puma-6-modem-list-chipset-defects/
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My latest experience with streaming: First, I found adding fiber optic between the router and music server was a big improvement in the sound of streaming. Added 5VDC LPS's and Finisar SFPs to the FMCs for additional improvement. Then last Spring I added the LHY-8 network switch between the fiber optic and the music server. The addition of some short, silver plated wire ethernet cables between router and FMC/FMC and network switch made for some of the best streaming to date. A couple of weeks ago I decided to experiment and removed the fiber optic link between my router and LHY-8 network switch. I was surprised to find the sound was slightly more dynamic. I needed a 5 meter long ethernet cable to replace the fiber optic cable but the only thing I had was a basic $10 cable. The imaging lost some focus, I noticed. But overall, the sound was better w/o using both the fiber and the network switch together. So I purposefully left the basic ethernet cable in the chain for two weeks to get to know the system as is. Finally, I replaced the $10, 5 meter long ethernet cable with a silver plated wire version. I let it run in for a day and gave the system a listen. Bam! Sharp focused imaging is back. Highs are a bit smoother and the mid bass a bit richer. Conclusions: 1) Fiber optic in the chain from router to network player improves the sound of streaming. Big bang for the buck improvement. 2) High quality network switch can do the same job as fiber optic with even better performance although not quite the sound per dollar performance gain as just adding fiber. 3) Silver plated wire ethernet cables are a must for the best streaming performance. (I also have a short silver plated wire ethernet cable from modem to router.) |
Thanks for sharing! Very interesting stuff. I understand you spoke about the 'silver plated wire' in anonymity, but I'm not sure who sells Network cables that have this topology, except I am assuming Nordost does. Do you mind sharing what others you found? And I'm also curious how you determined that silver plated wire was better or different than say copper wire or solid silver wire. I believe the different Network cables I've used are copper. Regards |
The ones I used are the Pangea SE and the AQ Cinnamon. Both have silver plated wire. I didn’t hear a difference between these two brands. But both are a nice step up in sound from basic Ethernet cables. These are little more budget friendly than the DH Labs ethernet cable. The DH Labs have a much thicker silver plating. Makes me wonder if I could hear a difference. |
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@tonywinga I also found that while the fiber optic sound was ever so clean using an Audio Sensibility Signature I2S Ethernet Cable sounded less sterile. If you will, less digital and more analog sounding. Is there such a thing as too clean sounding? For me yes. YMMV. |
Just wanted to add that I followed sns's recommendations pretty closely and found it greatly improved streaming. (I was naively using wifi.) Not too much money as I bought the Ethernet cables, a SW6 switch, and a LPS from Aliexpress. My final step is to get a power conditioner. Not sure how many plugs I need on the conditioner. I've got Triton One.Rs. I'm leaning towards a PSM156, but I'm not sure it's good for my amp and the Triton subwoofers. Shunyata Research conditioners claim to be OK with power amps, but I'm not sure about Puratin. I have a dedicated 20 amp line and Audience outlets, so maybe I just plug the amps into the wall and the rest into a PSM156? |