Need a big favor picking a preamp


I recently tried out an Esoteric E-02 phonostage and have decided to buy one.  (It was a big step up from a Parasound JC3+, which surprised me.)  I'm working on my preamp stage now, and tried out a Dan D'Angostino Momentum HD preamp and the Exoteric Grandioso C1X

 

Dan's preamp was fantasic, but I makes me feel like I need to be wearing several gold chains when using it.  Perhaps also a toupee and some gold nugget rings.  "Gaudy" is the word when I look at it. 

 

I also tried out a Esoteric Grandioso C1X, which was fantastic, but a bit cold, and much of my system is already Esoteric Grandioso, and it's getting a bit fanboyish.   Unfortunately I did not have it when I tried out the E-02, but I assume the two would be excellent together.

I would say the D'Angostino preamp is "more musical", while the Esoteric more "more precise".

There's a third contender I have never heard on my system, but loved when I heard elsewhere on a similar system -- Nagra HD preamp -- it had the precision of the Esoteric and had just a tad bit of tube sound.  It's also startlingly expensive.

I tried out several others that just didn't fit my system: Pass Labs being one, which surprised me.

So, please advise:

D'Angostino Momentum?

Esoteric C1X

Nagra HD

 

The downstream are two Classe Delta Monoblocks, Bowers 800s, SVS PB16 ultras.  Upstream Digital: Esoteric K-03XD and Lumin U1  Upstream Analog: Esoteric E-02 and alternating between a VPI Titan and Esoteric Grandioso turntable.

Current preamp is a Prima Luna Evo 400, which I love the looks of, and punches WAY above its weight for the price, but it's time to go.

 

 

davetheoilguy

"The Evo 400 is akin to a Porsche.  It's a reliable sports car, not particularly troublesome, and can easily serve as a daily driver, albeit one that bounces you around on your commute.  I'm looking for a preamp that is akin to Range Rover with 580 HP and even more torque.."

That's an interesting analogy.

What even compares feature/build? Plenty of great top notch choices, but not comparable apples to apples.

PL user myself, but lower on the food chain. Hp integ/new Evo 100 phonoamp

 

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Have you considered the Ayre KX-R Twenty?  Dual mono. Fully balanced. Should be a good match for Classe amps. 

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Sounds to me like you should audition the Ypsilon PST100 Mk2 pre amplifier.  I am very impressed with its balance, detail, and musicality.

I know, right?

The sun shone extra bright that day he joined.

Then rejoined, then rejoined, then rejoined....

@thecarpathian re jacobdad -  it sounds like: I am hanging out with you but I have much cooler friends than you. What an honor!

Just for fun look at an Audio Research Ref 6.
Heard it a couple times at a local dealer and

it sounded just great. Was a bit above my budget, 

so I’m saving up to get one. 

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I had the top of the line Classe mono-block amps a few years back. I used to own all Classe gear 20 years ago too. Give the new Classe preamp an audition. Another very good preamp is the PS Audio BHK signature preamp. I sold my Classe gear and went with PS Audio BHK gear. I like the sound quality of the D'Agostino equipment.

@tmortsd 

"Curious as to why you’re moving on from the prima Luna evo 400, that’s on my radar as a preamp upgrade…"

That's a fair question.  I think it's mainly because I'm an incessant tinker with all things electronic.  The Prima Luna Evo 400 is a very nice preamp, and certainly one of the best tube pieces for a person who doesn't want to mess with tubes. 

Since we went with a watch analogy above, I'll switch to cars.   If you think of a typical high-end tube pre-amp as a Ferrari, it's amazing, but a lot of trouble for a daily driver car. The Evo 400 is akin to a Porsche.  It's a reliable sports car, not particularly troublesome, and can easily serve as a daily driver, albeit one that bounces you around on your commute.  I'm looking for a preamp that is akin to Range Rover with 580 HP and even more torque where I can not worry about being crushed by an oilfield truck, but can still smoke the wheels at 80mph when I punch the gas.

Long way of saying, the Evo 400 is a really good choice.  It's got balanced input/output, true dual mono.  I've been happy with it, but looking for a bit more, which unfortunately means a huge move up in price, probably $70K or maybe $150K if I go with Captain Nemo (lol)'s Relentless.

Depending on where this goes, I may be a source for a used Evo, although I may keep it and move it to my ski house.  Still have the boxes! 

@woots 

" Nagra is, after all, made up of musicians."

Funny, I was an electronic countermeasures officer in the Army.  When I think of Nagra, I think of equipment we used to figure out what bad guys were up to in Iraq and other unsundry places.  I was surprised to find out they made anything for the public market.

Top notch kit, in that arena.

Curious as to why you’re moving on from the prima Luna evo 400, that’s on my radar as a preamp upgrade….

FWIW synergy and enhancing the strengths should be the goal with such a highly resolving system. Since I own an Esoteric C-03/ A-03 I know the house sound, when adding a different brand extreme caution is needed. Logic would be try the Classe preamp first then Esoteric.

@davetheoilguy Head on over to WBF. Much more diverse group over there both from an economic and intellectual level. You are going to find members with more actual experiences to share on this subject than here.

 

davetheoilguy OP

62 posts

 

@jacobsdad2000 @thecarpathian 

LOL.  It was constructive.  I was thinking "steampunk" for the D'Agostino, but it's very Royal Oak Offshore in its looks to put it into watch terms.  Doesn't make it not a fantastic amp (which it is), but I'm having trouble with its looks.  I'm more of a Rolex Daytona guy.  To keep rolling with the watch analogy, the Esoteric is a bit like the highest end Apple Watch, technically fantastic kit.  But something is missing.

 I probably should give the Classe Preamp a try, but I just don't know anything about it.  I kind of fell into the Classe monoblocks at a lightly-used, 50% off, situation and they are a known great match for the Bowers diamonds, such that Bowers (at the factory) unequivocally recommended them (privately, not as a company).

Can you tell me more about the Nagra HD you saw?  It seems awesome, but $70K is making me puke.

There's a Nagra PL-L on the other site for $6K. Its a piece I'd LOVE to someday own. Was an $11K linestage in 2010. Goals,...

+10 Backert Labs. Look at, listen to the Rhythm. About $10k. Contrary to one comment here it IS balanced with XLR in and out. And if you do buy one consider replacing the tubes (there are only 2) with RCA 12sn7's with adapters. Outstanding.  I've had one for several years now. 

Out of my price league, just one comment

The more revealing your system, excellent imaging capabilities, you realize MANY tracks benefit a lot by a slight balance adjustment,

Thus I always want a remote balance feature.

The Townshend Allegri Reference Passive preamp is better than all those. 

Good luck....

Hi, this is the same dilemma when I decided to improve my Mark Levinson pre. More musical or more precise? Well I prefer the second because I like to "insulate" the single instrument (I listen a lot of jazz music), but in any case you are dealing with high quality products that can play in any situation with the maximum pleasure.

My dilemma was: Robert Koda (more musical) or Soulution (more analytic)? I both the second (725) plus 751 for vinyls. I love Esoteric, it is my CD Player (K01XD).

@fastfreight 

Stern & Heisenberg?  Sounds like a law firm, but I’m uncertain.

I’m not familiar with the Stern preamp, but did a little looking.  audio net makes them.  Facade by the Apple designer, and there is a definite clean Apple Macintosh (the early years) look to the Stern preamp, in particular.  Very crisp

All the specs are there, and I’ll look.  I’ve never even heard of Audionet before but they clearly make cool stuff.

thanks!

@soix 

Hey souix.  No, dual mono and balanced are not the same.

Dual mono is akin to monoblock amps.  You have wholly separate equipment for left and right channels, but often placed in one box.  There are various degrees of dual channel, but the best are separate from power plug forward.

Google Captain Nemo’s own Dan D’Agostino Relentless Preamplifier for an easy-to-see, no compromises, version of this.

@davetheoilguy hello, you have amazing stuff! I would just be the Esoteric Fanboy!

I have Stern and Heisenbergs...If  I can't hear synergy at least I can see it!  Both easily better than the (old) Classe I have heard to me.  Good Luck!

When you say dual mono do you mean fully balanced?  If so I’d consider giving Atmasphere and ARC a look.  If single ended is ok then I’d echo recommendations for LTA and Backert.  Best of luck.

@bluethinker 

As it turns out, I actually bought the LTA microzotl  this past Hanukkah for my daughter to use as a headphone amp at college to avoid pissing off her roommate.

It’s nice, but I hadn’t considered it in this context.

If you are open to other choices, I strongly recommend the Linear Tube Audio Microzotl preamp. 
 

The Audiophiliac, Steve Guttenberg, just announced it as his new reference preamp. It’s a wonderful component. 

@davetheoilguy 

Congrats on your Esoteric E-02 phonostage purchase. Reviews says it's sonics punches significantly above it's price point.  

+1 Backert Labs

Absolutely check out Backert! It’s perhaps one of the best hidden gems of the high-end audio market. A complete suite of balanced and single ended connectivity and a neutral yet dazzling sound signature. All tube and American made by a great designer and his son. Believe me, it’s well worth looking into!

One more option for you to consider, also dual mono, but a tube preamp, which could be a good match for your amps.

 

Dan Wright, the founders of Modwright is very accessible, will respond to emails, take calls and supports his products based on my experience with one fo them, a phono stage. I have my eye on the preamp for a future upgrade.The Music Room is one of several dealers. The unit is made in the U.S.A., should that be a factor.  

Good luck in your search.

If you want to hear the instruments sound the way they were meant to sound go straight to the Nagra.  Nagra is, after all, made up of musicians. Currently own the Nagra Tube Dac with separate power supply and it is the best piece of equipment I own.  Amazing sound stage and so live sounding. 
 

Good luck and let us know how you make out!

Just tried a sapphire wand for my tonearm - very precise and very addictive - for about 5 hours. I have reverted to a warmer sounding wand, and it looks like the keeper. It's warm and smooth for me, but YMMV.

@maxwave 

 

Wow, that's pretty.  Fully balanced, dual mono input-to-output architecture, too.

My suggestion is to find a used Herron VTSP-3a (r03) or a VTSP-360. IMO, they are still the very best available and nothing remotely close for the $$.  The -360 is incredible.  

@audphile1 

Boulder would be a great choice.  The Classe preamplifier to match the monoblocks seems a lateral move for the Primaluna Evo 400.

I also want to have true dual mono -- which eliminates the D'Agostino Momentum.  I'd have to move up to the Relentless -- which, at $150K makes the Nagra look like a bargain.

I've seen the Nagra (used) here for $36K, which is fine and Esoteric C1X for the same new (from Japan, which requires a transformer, which is fine by me) or the new Esoteric C1X Solo (same as C1X, but in one housing) for $22K new from the USA.

 

Boulder could be right up your alley. But I would go with preamp/amp combination from the same manufacturer at this level