It's a fantastic preamp, but not dual mono (from what I've read).
Need a big favor picking a preamp
I recently tried out an Esoteric E-02 phonostage and have decided to buy one. (It was a big step up from a Parasound JC3+, which surprised me.) I'm working on my preamp stage now, and tried out a Dan D'Angostino Momentum HD preamp and the Exoteric Grandioso C1X
Dan's preamp was fantasic, but I makes me feel like I need to be wearing several gold chains when using it. Perhaps also a toupee and some gold nugget rings. "Gaudy" is the word when I look at it.
I also tried out a Esoteric Grandioso C1X, which was fantastic, but a bit cold, and much of my system is already Esoteric Grandioso, and it's getting a bit fanboyish. Unfortunately I did not have it when I tried out the E-02, but I assume the two would be excellent together.
I would say the D'Angostino preamp is "more musical", while the Esoteric more "more precise".
There's a third contender I have never heard on my system, but loved when I heard elsewhere on a similar system -- Nagra HD preamp -- it had the precision of the Esoteric and had just a tad bit of tube sound. It's also startlingly expensive.
I tried out several others that just didn't fit my system: Pass Labs being one, which surprised me.
So, please advise:
D'Angostino Momentum?
Esoteric C1X
Nagra HD
The downstream are two Classe Delta Monoblocks, Bowers 800s, SVS PB16 ultras. Upstream Digital: Esoteric K-03XD and Lumin U1 Upstream Analog: Esoteric E-02 and alternating between a VPI Titan and Esoteric Grandioso turntable.
Current preamp is a Prima Luna Evo 400, which I love the looks of, and punches WAY above its weight for the price, but it's time to go.
Showing 16 responses by davetheoilguy
@thecarpathian @maxwave @bpoletti @yogiboy @woots @sameyers1 @mwood @kennyc @bluethinker @soix @fastfreight @renatocomes @rayproctor9975 @vinylshadow @elliottbnewcombjr @markmuse @bgross @dayglow @tmortsd @rbstehno @sewolla @grislybutter @yogiboy @drbond @x5owner1 @tablejockey @ditusa @nightfall @jperry @kirk9 @garynospamm @philgo01 @bernardwilliams @gkr7007 @rspyder @rbyington711 @ghdprentice @coppy777 @robshaw Well, I've made a decision and pulled the tigger. Two triggers, in fact. I want to thank everyone for their input and advice. I learned about several brands and products I'd never heard of -- or had forgotten about. I seriously looked at every single one of each of your recommendations, and tried out a few, either in a show room or in my system. Even stole my daughter's LTA Microzotl (which, for whatever reason, thought of as a headphone amp) for an evening. The Vinnie Rossi Brama Meiter is stunning-looking and well-reviewed and the one that I could not audition because I couldn't find one located where I could reasonably justify to the IRS (and my board) firing up the company plane and checking out. It will forever be the pretty girl with whom I didn't get to dance. The runner-up was the Audio Research Reference 10, a late entry here, of which there are numerous used examples for very reasonable prices. I borrowed a buddies, and it is extremely good. Very crisp. He also brought in a Van den Hul The Grail SE (the one with the two power supplies). I fell in love with this Phono Preamp. Fourth place was the Dan D'Agastino's RELENTLESS (not Momentum). I could only find it new and the dealer wanted more than MSRP. I also couldn't try it out on my system and had to rely on a studio audition. It has a distinct "house" sound, which, if you like it, that's great. B The Esoteric Grandioso (C01X?) fell to third. It has all the right bits, but something wasn't right, and we did blind A-B testing. The winner was the Nagra HD preamp. It had my objective list of requirements: true dual mono, fully balanced inputs and outputs, and just outstanding sound. Even used (at $36K) it was ~2X more than the Audio Research (used) it was superior. But when I paired it with the Vdh The Grail SE, it was pure magic. The two work exceptionally well together.
So anyway, I ended up buying the Nagra HD today (sending check Monday) -- and ended up buying a VdH Grail SE phono stage unexpectedly.
Happy listening, everyone. And thanks for all your help. |
”Why are you asking others about what you need to hear when you listen to your own system its like asking which sports car should I drive. You won't know until you drive it yourself” To figure out what to test drive, of course. I’ve made a successful career, and indeed life, in part by asking people who have more knowledge and experience — or just different experiences — what they thought about things. I listen and weigh the advice or thoughts. And frequently I learn about new things. It’s the same reason I read what experts, or just those that come before, have done and thought about everything. We stand on the backs of 10,000 years of human history. It’s a waste not to learn from others’ experiences and ideas. Indeed, while it may come to a surprise for those whose Internet forums to make pithy comments, otherwise be rude to others, and lash out for no good reason (other than to sate whatever demon troubles them — a mistake, for it only grows stronger) the real purpose of forums such as Audiogon is to learn from others and to help others. I've learned a lot from this thread and been helped. One day, I’d like the honor and privilege of returning the favor. |
I have no clue what the history is here, but, as it relates to this topic, the tip to look at a forum where people were actively discussing both preamps (and comparable alternatives) was very helpful. The slam on Dan D’Angostino amps’ looks is fair. And funny. These are quality amps, but very distinctly inspired by Audimar Piguet Royal Oak Offshore watches (and I own one, but seldom wear because it’s not my style, at all), which is, indeed nautical and in the cheesy Miami Vice side of dress. If I lived in Miami or on a beach somewhere, this may be the amp for me. But I live in Texas. |
"Curious as to why you’re moving on from the prima Luna evo 400, that’s on my radar as a preamp upgrade…" That's a fair question. I think it's mainly because I'm an incessant tinker with all things electronic. The Prima Luna Evo 400 is a very nice preamp, and certainly one of the best tube pieces for a person who doesn't want to mess with tubes. Since we went with a watch analogy above, I'll switch to cars. If you think of a typical high-end tube pre-amp as a Ferrari, it's amazing, but a lot of trouble for a daily driver car. The Evo 400 is akin to a Porsche. It's a reliable sports car, not particularly troublesome, and can easily serve as a daily driver, albeit one that bounces you around on your commute. I'm looking for a preamp that is akin to Range Rover with 580 HP and even more torque where I can not worry about being crushed by an oilfield truck, but can still smoke the wheels at 80mph when I punch the gas. Long way of saying, the Evo 400 is a really good choice. It's got balanced input/output, true dual mono. I've been happy with it, but looking for a bit more, which unfortunately means a huge move up in price, probably $70K or maybe $150K if I go with Captain Nemo (lol)'s Relentless. Depending on where this goes, I may be a source for a used Evo, although I may keep it and move it to my ski house. Still have the boxes! |
LOL. It was constructive. I was thinking "steampunk" for the D'Agostino, but it's very Royal Oak Offshore in its looks to put it into watch terms. Doesn't make it not a fantastic amp (which it is), but I'm having trouble with its looks. I'm more of a Rolex Daytona guy. To keep rolling with the watch analogy, the Esoteric is a bit like the highest end Apple Watch, technically fantastic kit. But something is missing. I probably should give the Classe Preamp a try, but I just don't know anything about it. I kind of fell into the Classe monoblocks at a lightly-used, 50% off, situation and they are a known great match for the Bowers diamonds, such that Bowers (at the factory) unequivocally recommended them (privately, not as a company). Can you tell me more about the Nagra HD you saw? It seems awesome, but $70K is making me puke. |
Stern & Heisenberg? Sounds like a law firm, but I’m uncertain. I’m not familiar with the Stern preamp, but did a little looking. audio net makes them. Facade by the Apple designer, and there is a definite clean Apple Macintosh (the early years) look to the Stern preamp, in particular. Very crisp All the specs are there, and I’ll look. I’ve never even heard of Audionet before but they clearly make cool stuff. thanks! |
Boulder would be a great choice. The Classe preamplifier to match the monoblocks seems a lateral move for the Primaluna Evo 400. I also want to have true dual mono -- which eliminates the D'Agostino Momentum. I'd have to move up to the Relentless -- which, at $150K makes the Nagra look like a bargain. I've seen the Nagra (used) here for $36K, which is fine and Esoteric C1X for the same new (from Japan, which requires a transformer, which is fine by me) or the new Esoteric C1X Solo (same as C1X, but in one housing) for $22K new from the USA.
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Hey souix. No, dual mono and balanced are not the same. Dual mono is akin to monoblock amps. You have wholly separate equipment for left and right channels, but often placed in one box. There are various degrees of dual channel, but the best are separate from power plug forward. Google Captain Nemo’s own Dan D’Agostino Relentless Preamplifier for an easy-to-see, no compromises, version of this. |
" Nagra is, after all, made up of musicians." Funny, I was an electronic countermeasures officer in the Army. When I think of Nagra, I think of equipment we used to figure out what bad guys were up to in Iraq and other unsundry places. I was surprised to find out they made anything for the public market. Top notch kit, in that arena. |
Read the existing posts once in a while before you post! iI figured they were trying to give me buyer’s remorse. The Gryphon looks pretty amazing and is one I didn’t try. although, looks wise and on paper thr Nagea HD has it beat, I’ve learned that testing is very imperfect measure at some point. |