I recently tried out an Esoteric E-02 phonostage and have decided to buy one. (It was a big step up from a Parasound JC3+, which surprised me.) I'm working on my preamp stage now, and tried out a Dan D'Angostino Momentum HD preamp and the Exoteric Grandioso C1X
Dan's preamp was fantasic, but I makes me feel like I need to be wearing several gold chains when using it. Perhaps also a toupee and some gold nugget rings. "Gaudy" is the word when I look at it.
I also tried out a Esoteric Grandioso C1X, which was fantastic, but a bit cold, and much of my system is already Esoteric Grandioso, and it's getting a bit fanboyish. Unfortunately I did not have it when I tried out the E-02, but I assume the two would be excellent together.
I would say the D'Angostino preamp is "more musical", while the Esoteric more "more precise".
There's a third contender I have never heard on my system, but loved when I heard elsewhere on a similar system -- Nagra HD preamp -- it had the precision of the Esoteric and had just a tad bit of tube sound. It's also startlingly expensive.
I tried out several others that just didn't fit my system: Pass Labs being one, which surprised me.
So, please advise:
D'Angostino Momentum?
Esoteric C1X
Nagra HD
The downstream are two Classe Delta Monoblocks, Bowers 800s, SVS PB16 ultras. Upstream Digital: Esoteric K-03XD and Lumin U1 Upstream Analog: Esoteric E-02 and alternating between a VPI Titan and Esoteric Grandioso turntable.
Current preamp is a Prima Luna Evo 400, which I love the looks of, and punches WAY above its weight for the price, but it's time to go.
I really like the LTA microZOTL preamp as it is very smooth and quiet. It is working well with my R11’s and currently with my Vincent hybrid amp. LTA is really focused on two channel components so the preamp is not loaded with tons of bell and whistles such as DAC’s, subwoofer circuitry, XLR outputs,multi-speaker outputs, etc. Probably not well suited for home entertainment systems IMHO. For two channel systems it is excellent. So much so, I have just put in an order for the Reference+ amp to match the preamp circuitry. Hope the synergy with the matching amp/preamp will be an improvement. Also, the LTA equipment is beautifully built and stylish. Love the control buttons also. LTA is also big on headphone circuitry if you want/need that. Good luck on your decision!
I’ve been researching a new preamp in the $5K-$6K range and was also having a hard time making a decision. Solid state, tube or hybrid and a lot of choices in this price range. Narrowed it down to a Pass Lab solid state for $6K and a Linear Tube Audio (LTA) microZOTL with Level 2 upgrade and balanced input ($5750). After talking with LTA I decided to go with the small business with the interesting ZOTL technology and strong reviews. It will take about 4;weeks for them to build and test before shipping it out. It will be a long month.
Aric Audio Motherlode preamp is superb. Best preamp I have ever owned including my Supratek. It won’t break the bank like some other Audio eye candy will...
Can you remind us , what brand and model , are your speakers ?
I have also read that Nagra was a bit analytical. But it was a couple of years ago.
I don’t know about their new models’
I've got to throw another preamp in the ring - the Audionet Stern. As I've experienced it with a number of different amplifiers it always sounds, to my ears, more transparent, with more body at the same time, and dynamics galore! It's my pick for sure.
Sell your DAC get a Lampizator Poseidon it has a lower impedance than previous Lampi products and has a full preamp built in with XLR and RCA inputs with a buffer.
An excellent choice! You will not be disappointed. In my experience, the Nagra HD was a bit thin in the mids in my system relative to the Jubilee. But it is fast and precise on the front edge of transients.
Well, I've made a decision and pulled the tigger. Two triggers, in fact.
I want to thank everyone for their input and advice. I learned about several brands and products I'd never heard of -- or had forgotten about. I seriously looked at every single one of each of your recommendations, and tried out a few, either in a show room or in my system. Even stole my daughter's LTA Microzotl (which, for whatever reason, thought of as a headphone amp) for an evening.
The Vinnie Rossi Brama Meiter is stunning-looking and well-reviewed and the one that I could not audition because I couldn't find one located where I could reasonably justify to the IRS (and my board) firing up the company plane and checking out. It will forever be the pretty girl with whom I didn't get to dance.
The runner-up was the Audio Research Reference 10, a late entry here, of which there are numerous used examples for very reasonable prices. I borrowed a buddies, and it is extremely good. Very crisp. He also brought in a Van den Hul The Grail SE (the one with the two power supplies). I fell in love with this Phono Preamp.
Fourth place was the Dan D'Agastino's RELENTLESS (not Momentum). I could only find it new and the dealer wanted more than MSRP. I also couldn't try it out on my system and had to rely on a studio audition. It has a distinct "house" sound, which, if you like it, that's great. B
The Esoteric Grandioso (C01X?) fell to third. It has all the right bits, but something wasn't right, and we did blind A-B testing.
The winner was the Nagra HD preamp. It had my objective list of requirements: true dual mono, fully balanced inputs and outputs, and just outstanding sound. Even used (at $36K) it was ~2X more than the Audio Research (used) it was superior. But when I paired it with the Vdh The Grail SE, it was pure magic. The two work exceptionally well together.
So anyway, I ended up buying the Nagra HD today (sending check Monday) -- and ended up buying a VdH Grail SE phono stage unexpectedly.
Happy listening, everyone. And thanks for all your help.
Sometimes you don't have to spend a TON of money to get superb results. I have 2, Benchmark LA-4 pre amps in two individual systems. A little over 3K with remote, for each. I believe they also offer an HPA-4 ? which comes with a great Headphone amp, a little bit more money. You will be quite impressed!
30 day trial period, made in the USA (NY) Total money back if not pleased. Rory,a good guy who will answer the phone ( No pushing buttons all day) Kind of a WIN-WIN
"Indeed, while it may come to a surprise for those who use Internet forums to make pithy comments, otherwise be rude to others, and lash out for no good reason (other than to sate whatever demon troubles them — a mistake, for it only grows stronger) the real purpose of forums such as Audiogon is to learn from others and to help others."
”Why are you asking others about what you need to hear when you listen to your own system its like asking which sports car should I drive. You won't know until you drive it yourself”
To figure out what to test drive, of course.
I’ve made a successful career, and indeed life, in part by asking people who have more knowledge and experience — or just different experiences — what they thought about things. I listen and weigh the advice or thoughts. And frequently I learn about new things. It’s the same reason I read what experts, or just those that come before, have done and thought about everything.
We stand on the backs of 10,000 years of human history. It’s a waste not to learn from others’ experiences and ideas.
Indeed, while it may come to a surprise for those whose Internet forums to make pithy comments, otherwise be rude to others, and lash out for no good reason (other than to sate whatever demon troubles them — a mistake, for it only grows stronger) the real purpose of forums such as Audiogon is to learn from others and to help others.
I've learned a lot from this thread and been helped. One day, I’d like the honor and privilege of returning the favor.
I would recommend a Conrad Johnson ART 88 or an Audio Research Reference 10. From your descriptions of the sound qualities you are experiencing and desire these may add the warmth and musicality without discarding the detail.
Why are you asking others about what you need to hear when you listen to your own system its like asking which sports car should I drive. You won't know until you drive it yourself.
Hi Dave. I was in your position a few years back. I'm familiar with the Nagra HD and Momentum, which are top-tier contenders (as you'd expect). My research, comparisons and ear drew me to the Octave Jubilee Preamp. It replaced my ARC Ref.10 and bested it in every possible way.
The Jubilee pre is a hybrid design with a tube linestage and separate SS power supply. It is very neutral with the ability to mine deeply into the both musical and spatial details (e.g. venue effects) with a phenomenal naturalness. But of all its characteristics that really stands out is the Jubilee's holographic atmosphere that only valves can produce. For me, it's a keeper!
I find that the Macintosh C-12000 a great sounding pre-amp with tons of features that compete with with Dan D' Agostino a great phono stage tube or solid state. A great value at $16,000.
I haven't heard the D'Angostino Momentum HD preamp and the Exoteric Grandioso C1X.
I have heard the Nagra HD, which sounds fantastic. In a comparison it was significantly superior to a Nagra Classic preamp and an Audio Research Reference.
Not sure if that is any help, but still a data point.
"He won't be responding as he yet again got banned.
If you want to know about SPL preamps, @jaymarkj has the Elector. I'm sure if you messaged him he would be happy to give you his impressions.
Oops, sorry!
It's not jaymarkj, it's just jaymark."
Thanks for making me aware. I was particularly interested as the banned poster's thoughts on the SPL as he had experience listening to those two high end preamps. I will follow up with your recommended forum member on his thoughts. Thanks again.
"I have had a listen to Nagra HD and the Momentum both in brand matched systems and was very impressed. I am a less is more guy and prefer SPL from Germany. Why are you not auditioning the Classe Preamps?"
Also not trying to derail this thread, but I have an important question. I’ve been hearing that the SPL preamp is a giantkiller. You’ve listened to great preamps like the Momentum and Nagra HD. Obviously, at a tiny fraction of the price of those, the SPL can’t compare, but please tell me your impressions.
The history here is this guy through the last few years has been consistently banned for his juvenile, insulting posts and behavior. He just keeps coming back under a new username. Follows same pattern; civil and informative, then his posts eventually degrade to what you have witnessed here, then much worse.
He's up to at least 8 or 9 iterations. Sorry this bubbled up on your thread.
I have no clue what the history is here, but, as it relates to this topic, the tip to look at a forum where people were actively discussing both preamps (and comparable alternatives) was very helpful.
The slam on Dan D’Angostino amps’ looks is fair. And funny. These are quality amps, but very distinctly inspired by Audimar Piguet Royal Oak Offshore watches (and I own one, but seldom wear because it’s not my style, at all), which is, indeed nautical and in the cheesy Miami Vice side of dress. If I lived in Miami or on a beach somewhere, this may be the amp for me. But I live in Texas.
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