for the short time I have been on here, I see that members will start a thread asking about a certain piece of equipment or speakers.. they will then buy that piece of equipment / speakers, start a thread about it saying how good it is and then next thing you know, they are starting another thread asking about another piece of gear as they are looking for something different. what happened to that piece of gear that was so great ? i get the whole buying thing....but where are members getting the money to do all of this stuff ? do they not have other bills such as rent / mortgage payment, car payment, other bills to pay for also ?
Net Worth USA Percentiles – Top 1%, 5%, 10%, and 50% in Net Worth
The top 1% of net worth in USA in 2021 = $10,500,000.
The top 2% of net worth in USA in 2021 = $2,400,000.
The top 5% of net worth in USA in 2021 = $1,000,000.
The top 10% of net worth in USA in 2021 = $830,000.
I was too lazy to look up current levels but I would even venture that in order to be considered in these brackets this should be “income producing assets”. Otherwise, net worth would likely be declining which the cost of living rises. An after tax risk free rate of 3% would net the individual in the top bracket a little over $300k per year into perpetuity.
I would like to be the first to congratulate a certain someone who announced they are a one percenter on being in on the ground floor of every decent IPO for the last 40 years! Going all in and getting it right every time takes mad skills.
You could be surprised how some people get in to the hobby and bring their money to it. I have dentist friend who lives in NYC, and his interests was extremely fair from music and good sound. He was a lot about a cars, travel etc. It was about 10 years ago. We was drinking whiskey at his place and he started crying that his new BMW was vandalized and his luxury car before was vandalized too. I asked him why you keep buying expensive cars if you live in big busiest city it’s just matter of time when it’s will be vandalized again.... he said yah... I earn good money and I want to spend for some good staff and be satisfied... that evening was beginning of his audiophile journey cause I suggested him to invest in good audio gear... he took the advice very seriously.... now he has three top of the notch systems (home, office, summer house) worth a couple hundred of thousands... and he is guru now gives equipment advices to me. :)
Also, don’t let some of the snarky posters get you down. They are the exception to this community rather than the rule. They spew BS at every opportunity, insult at will and stare at their screen non stop waiting for their next victim. In addition, when viewing their system pictures on some occasion I wonder why they they fret over their carbon fiber cable elevators rather than replace their bordello red carpeting but hey, everyone allocates their own resources to their own satisfaction.
I'm crying. LOL
This paragraph should be made into a framed poster and be hanging in the Audiogon offices. Thanks, @ghasley -- you made my week!
I am somewhat in your corner. I have what I consider to be a very good system and very content with. To a lot of posters here I would be labeled as a low end entry systems. I could afford to spend five or 10 times more than the 10k I have but tell me will it sound 10 times better? I don’t think so. I have heard 100 k systems and they do sound better but not 90k better! Will I never buy another or replace a current piece no I am sure something will come along that I will want, but it will have to be a good return on investment. To me this return is about the enjoyment of the music not the status or a bragging right. I would rather have someone think I paid way more for the performance than someone not recognize the performance because they can’t get over that my system cost more than their house! Enjoy the music that is why we are here!!
I have wondered about this as well. There must be some extremely rich people in this group and some extremely understanding wives. I still have to answer to the gate keeper and I don’t want to take her on.
@glupson. Thank you I teach high school English and collegiate education.
Also, several people have really identified how many of us do manage to afford it. Well, those of us who don't have as much income as arrest. When I was first starting out in this hobby some 10 or 15 years ago, I could never have afforded what I have now. But the whole idea of trade up really works out over time.
For example, a component I buy for $1,000 I might sell for close to that and then buy another component for maybe $1,500. I might sell that for as close to that as I can, then buy another component worth $2,000, and so on. Overtime you start getting components built on the financial fossilized remains of your previous ones
@birdscantrow Please don't judge this site by the obnoxious behavior of certain people. Don't worry, all you need to do is extoll the virtues of springs, Schumann generators or Tekton Moabs and he will be your friend, at least until you ask your next question.
Glad I could shed a little light for you @afisher even though I fully recognize you were being snarky...I can read minds right?
Jokes aside, there is no real secret why some people can afford certain things while others can’t, I’ve been on both sides of that equation. I just hate to see people chase lixury items with rent money. If you know anyone with a “boat payment” its playing out before your very eyes.
Does anyone remember the 80’s when great equipment was at a price anyone could afford.
Does anyone remember the 60's, before the rampant inflation of the 70's that led to the high prices of the 80's? lol! My first stereo was bought with newspaper route and lawn mowing money. Delivered the papers on my Schwinn, same bike I rode to Radio Shack to shop for my stereo on. My first acoustic treatments were egg cartons. My second stereo, Kenwood, Pioneer, Technics and JBL was bought with real money, McDonald's money, $1.85/hr.
Sorry, correction. This was 1973. We stopped using silver in 1965. The last vestiges of real money. By real money I meant big money. Back then, if you had a $20 bill you were loaded. Rich. You would carry that thing around, feel like a million bucks, do anything to not have to break that twenty.
This is all nuts and nobody's business, but not just because it is impolite to ask. Politeness varies widely across cultures. It is nuts and nobody's business because it is just plain chaotic disorganized thinking. If you want to talk about money, finance, investing, and how to get ahead in life fine, bring it on. I will dish it out and those who are smart will listen and learn how a totally normal guy who started out with a newspaper route and never made more than an overtime graveyard working x-ray tech winds up in the top 1% able to retire comfortably at 64.
What this shows is just how nuts the OP's question is. It's not where do we get the money. We don't "get" money, we earn it. One way or another. And once we do earn it, then the question is not so much what do we do with the money, as what do we NOT DO with it. I never had a car when all my friends did. I still do not have a cell phone! Process that one.
Granted this is a completely different perspective than most are familiar with. Pro Tip for the OP: if you want to be able to afford great gear some day, read and learn, to see things from a completely different point of view.
You should have stopped typing after the first question mark. Some reasonable answers may have followed. In fact, I'm surprised you received as many pleasant replies as you did.
In polite society it is taboo to ask how much a person earns, what they spend their money on etc etc.
High end audio can certainly be a "cubic dollars" game just like airplanes, boats, cars, watches, you name it and someone can spend more on it than you can imagine is possible.
You ask where I get the money. This was it for me. Told my self nothing is too expensive. You just don't earn enough. The problem is always the dummy in the mirror. Get as much education as possible. Apply your self. Listen do not talk too much. Show up for work. Don't work for someone very long. Start a business. If it fails try again. Put your self in the way of money. Money is flowing all the time everywhere. Make a mistake once. Twice your a dummy. If all else fails, marry up financially, win it, or inherit it. If these sugestions don't work sing the song " just a giglio everywhere I go."
Just a side comment about this forum. I read the funniest whittiest stuff every day. A lot of smart people here. This forum is just as much audio as it is life. It doesn't bother me people can rude and mean here. That's life. The world can be a cruel place. Get over it.
Does anyone remember the 80’s when great equipment was at a price anyone could afford. Adcom, Carver, Hafler could all be had at a reasonable price. I had a preamp from Spectro Acoustic with two Adcom amps running mono a Michell Focus One turntable with a Dynovector cartridge with a ruby stylus and JSE model 1’s. Wish I still had that system.
@glupson "I bought all of my audio equipment myself. It was not that expensive, unless you ask my friends" I love it.
How many times has this happened to you: A friend comes over, you turn on the system to play beautiful sounds for them, and the first thing they ask, before even hearing the music - "Wow, how much did that cost?"
I'm a retired widower and I love my passions. Quality live and recorded music and a great audio system to play the mountains of music I collated since high school is a pleasure that is worth it to me.
I'm not rich. I'm not poor. I AM one darn happy listener.
The hobby is an interesting balance of priorities. On the financial allocation side of things, each of us make what we make, some obviously more than others. There is a great deal of wealth out there. There is also a great deal of strife out there, always has been and unfortunately it always will be. You get to thinking you are doing pretty well until you take a step back and look around you. Also, watch out for those giving advice, including me. Many on this site are a touch older than average and they developed certain parameters that defined their success: living frugally, getting their house paid for, etc, etc. Thats the model thats worked in the US for a very long time. Digging a little deeper, having sufficient cash for the inevitable emergency or economic setback (personal or the economy as a whole) has always been a good idea. That got turned on its ear in 2008 and many who worked hard and played by the rules and bought all the house they could leverage into lost a decade of fiscal opportunity because they were married to their mortgage. If your home is your largest asset then its very likely that your asset allocation strategy could use a review. Im not casting any stones here, just pointing out that moments in time change things forever. Has covid rendered commercial property valuing models moot? Housing prices are unsustainable in many areas and many people have seen their values rise to the point that their belief in their own strategy and the self righteousness that comes with it have also risen. Same goes for the stock market. The oldest lesson in finance is the only cure for high prices are high prices.
Housing and real estate ownership: if the average individual isnt in the game though then they will never accumulate wealth. Period. So, if someone is renting they should calculate what it would cost to own something like they are renting and ensure that they not only cover rent but also put away enough to facilitate owning in a reasonable amount of time. If they cant visualize that plan they are either renting beyond their means or sticking their head in the sand. That doesnt mean they should buy the second they can, only that they should be able and prepared to when the landscape is right. Bad financial decisions are most typically made during good times. Betting on tomorrow to pay for today. Dont do that.
You see all kinds of behavior all over our economy. Dont get too wrapped up in what others do or dont do, have or spend. Personal responsibility is different for everyone but it is also something we are each pretty clear about even if we dont always act responsibly.
So, for those of us warped enough to be afflicted with the audio hobby, many have accumulated gear over the years and traded up and continued to allocate funds to the hobby. It adds up over time. Sure, some people overspend and do so irresponsibly. The economy is overcooked right now if you look at housing, used car prices, online spending and it trickles into audio.
Used prices of gear these days is very high and when something decent gets listed for sale, it gets snapped up. I buy and sell alot of gear and never make money LOL. I do it because the shopping landscape has forever changed. When I was a young man pining for a piece of gear, I would go often to the dealer, waste his time, listen forever, offer to sweep his shop until the point where either I had enough money saved or he would wear down. Today, if you want an extended demo, you either buy new from a vendor with a liberal return policy (I hate that) or buy used at a value where you can move it on without much financial leakage. I think thats alot of what you see when you posed your original question.
Also, don’t let some of the snarky posters get you down. They are the exception to this community rather than the rule. They spew BS at every opportunity, insult at will and stare at their screen non stop waiting for their next victim. In addition, when viewing their system pictures on some occasion I wonder why they they fret over their carbon fiber cable elevators rather than replace their bordello red carpeting but hey, everyone allocates their own resources to their own satisfaction.
Most of the nicer audio nuts here lead a balanced life and have better things to do than sit around and defend their speaker brand as if they had been knighted by a self annointed speaker shaman. Have fun, buy what you can comfortably afford and never look at it as a storage of wealth...that would be a mistake seen often and not worth emulating. Welcome to the hobby, to Audiogon and enjoy your music!
Birdscantrow, that's a good question about where some site members get the money to be purchasing this high end "stuff" when it takes most of us all we have to deal with normal living expenses and bills. Like you, I wished for ages when younger to be able to afford high end equipment.
Now there are obviously rich guys or gals around for whom this presents no problem. For many of the rest of us we've had to manage our finances over many years in such a way that we finally can buy some high end equipment in our dotage. You can, if you work at it, pay off your mortgage before you retire. Medicare takes care of most medical type bills then. Likewise you can pay off your car. If you're fortunate enough to have picked a profession that pays a pension that helps enormously also.
Now unless you hit the Lotto, you're not going to get to this point in your life any time soon. So the answer to your question about how a regular person with bills affords this kind of high end equipment is, they don't. Not until later in life only, with planning, maybe investment, retirement IRA's you pay into while you're working, or other strategies.
It can be done by regular working folk, but not easily, or without a great deal of patience while you take care of your regular bills and expenses. Finally that day may arrive when your planning and perseverance pays off and you can dip your toes into the high end market. I'm only speaking for myself here, others surely get their money for high end equipment by other means, nefarious like oregonpapa and jjss, or otherwise.
Priorities.... I live in a tent on the streets of LA, but you should see my system. I walk around Beverly Hills on garbage day hoping to find GIF panels that have been thrown away. The vinyl tarp has poor acoustic qualities.
I bought and sold some audio gear between 1983 and 85 in the process of putting together a system I lived with for 26 years. During that time I continued my education, worked full time, raised 3 kids and put them through college. Over the last 10 years of retirement I have been buying and selling many components in the process of gaining a personal education towards a hobby I enjoy and a system to enjoy it through.
I thank many on this forum for their help in this endeavor. Truly miss AL.
Started working at 16. We had no kids. Wife made me us save a lot each year. Let it just ride and now retired with no debt high net worth so I tell her what did we save for all those years if we cannot enjoy it now...! So I got back into high end stereo a couple of years ago....!
OPM is fine for a house. Cash is king for everything else. Started working at 13. I didn't stop until my body was broke and my account was flush. :-)
I took 3 vacations in that time.. I made sure my family was well taken care of. Every year they went and enjoyed what they deserved. I was proud to do it to. Still am.. I got a great family. God, Family, Country. What else is there?
Still collection on the broken body part, ba$tards. Bone fragment in my neck.. Yup broken neck.. BUT the ears work just fine..
Hands not so much.. we're workin' on it.. oldhvymec 1, them ZERO. I won.. MY MARBLES, NOW... Just no heavy bag work anymore, so what, I wasn't lookin' for a Title shot anyways.. I'll leave that to Rocky 13 or 14, where ever that's at now..
There is absolutely nothing wrong with borrowing money for toys, otherwise known as a credit card, as long as you have the ability to pay it back. It is also important that you buy something that you know you will keep for years to come. There is "No" damage done by using a credit card with "zero" percent say for 18 months....the bank makes "zero" additional money. You pay back exactly what you spent, no more no less! Keep it all within reason without going nuts and it is easily manageable and you have your stuff before your dead and buried.
Its called debt! However, it is smart managed debt. Meaning that the remaining debt i do have, used to establish my system of today, is financed at "zero" percent. It is gradually paid off, usually no more than 24-36 months. Also, some things are sold either on here or on ebay to finance a new purchase, if say that something just was not doing it for me. The only thing left to pay off is my latest turntable acquisition ....I’ll most likely use part of the stimulus check to wipe that out. In the end I’m left with Tannoy legacy eatons $5500 (not counting stands or material to fill them), sugden a21 se $3250, a Marantz pm14s1, six turntables, four tuners, three cd players and a transport, two dacs, two extra pairs of speakers (wharefdales), three cassettes decks, two headphone amps, ten pairs of headphones, countless interconnects and power chords, ten cartridges...on and on and on...and all mine, all paid for!!...except the aforementioned turntable. You ask how is most of this debt paid off? Through lots and lots of hard work and OT. Was it all worth it? Hell yeah! I do not regret anything. Yes, got a mortgage, car payment, kids, utilities, CC debt, etc etc....however, its all getting paid and I still save money in bank. I will tell you that we as a family do not spend a fortune on trips or eat in the fanciest restaurants.
Of course you didn't. Instead, he told you a lot of stuff about his personal economic situation (which may or may not be true, and which neither you nor I nor anyone else cares about), then blamed you for asking.
I concur. I have been in this Hobby since 1985. Most of us have had the (very) good fortune in working up to a Reference system. Tip: buy demo/used as much as possible.
@birdscantrow: I get your question and I think it is a common one. When I came to this forum a year ago, I was totally unfamiliar with the audiophile-level equipment and brands, and I too thought, “Who can spend $100,000 on stereo equipment?” I certainly couldn’t. But you learn that a number of the members on sites like this one are/were professional people with high incomes, and some can and do build or tweak their own equipment, thus getting better equipment and sound at lower cost, which was mentioned above.
Also, some of these folks have been at this hobby for 20, 30 or more years, so they have had a lot of time to sample equipment and trade up to what they have now. They didn’t start out with the Ferrari system; they worked up to it.
I also have seen that some members appear sensitive to questions like, “Why did you even want to put so much money into something like stereo equipment?” I figured it’s probably a judgment that they heard expressed by family or friends, or acquaintances, over years and it irked them then as it irks them now. It would be like someone here saying to me, “If you are going to settle for mediocre equipment, why bother?” We each have our own priorities and our own spending limits. I still enjoy hearing how other members are sampling new equipment that I will probably never hear. Some things are still to be enjoyed vicariously. 😁
Birdsdontrow- Don’t think Einstein is right in the head. He’s in the Doghouse a lot!
I have a Credit Union credit card that has a great rate; my only debt. I know I won’t spend money out of my savings so I put it on the card and pay it off by selling Tools and older Audio Equipment. I Try buying used when I can. I’m feeling a new set of Speaker in a month or two. I know it might be a little silly, but it’s the only way I’ll buy a 5-7k piece of equipment. Divorced, son lives by the Gulf, partially retired. With COVID, what the hell else are we going to do?
what happened to that piece of gear that was so great ? —- i still have it, maybe i moved it to a second system, perhaps i sold it.
i get the whole buying thing....but where are members getting the money to do all of this stuff ? — i own NewYorkSubHP.com a sandwich shop in dallas Texas. We are a New York style deli that uses all local texas meats that are cured/smoked/roasted in house. Its a true mom and pop and we work our butts off every day. do they not have other bills such as rent / mortgage payment, car payment, other bills to pay for also ?
Two thoughts here. A system that is plain enjoyable to listen to and an all out assault on an audio system. My friend goes to estate sales and picks up great older gear for very cheap. For example, Harmon Kardon XX series preamp and matching power amp with original boxes, etc. $200. That amp is one of the best SS amps I have ever heard. Plenty of speakers also - B&Ws, Kef, Infinite Slope, IMF the big suckers. He also build a system around an old tube integrated amp that was so beautiful sounding. Audiophile - no but so enjoyable well YES.
My way was to learn how to improve the sound of any component with better parts. Capacitors, resistors, AC filter chokes, etc. You can purchase older components that were at one time considered state of the art and upgrade them if you want to learn how to do that. Then you need to learn how to build your own components. You cannot buy the sound from a component that you can learn to build on your own.
Even though I have the money to purchase anything I want, I cannot buy what I can build. You can also learn to build your own net worth through various investment strategies and become financially independent. It can be done!
Buy used. People will think you’re rich. I wouldn’t even tell my friends how much my used gear is. They would think I’m nuts. My family and I don’t eat out. I quit golf. Have a house below my means and I quit yayo when I was 21. Now, I’ve got my youngest who plays hockey( money suck) and oldest in college. I might sell it all and I won’t care. I’ll still love music and will always appreciate great systems.
The problem is that the gear you have is only as good as the next piece you hear that outperforms it and when you hear that next level in your system that old piece goes by the wayside but you do not want to get rid of a really good piece because it will work better in some instances than the new(better) one in some circumstances it is all so system dependent.
I'm so rich I fry up Hundred Dollar Bills and eat 'em for breakfast. Sometimes, if I'm feeling thrifty I'll lather maple syrup over them instead of my usual hundred year old cognac.
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