Looking for an integrated amp around 4000 to 5000.


I am currently looking to upgrade from a Rogue Pharaoh integrated. I have Ascendo C8 Rennasance speakers 88  DB. 6 ohm. PC to Wyred4sound DAC 2. Looking for some input on others experience. Considering Levinson 585 or Primaluna EVO 400. I need a line out for a sub. Prefer a balanced in but that is not a deal breaker. I welcome all recommendations.
Ag insider logo xs@2xpal
Hello - wow you got some kind and sincere responses and some odd recommendations but that’s to be expected. Folks on this site for the most part are kind and want to help you. 
Ok let me try to help. 
First things first. Over the years I’ve owned many different speakers and many different kinds. Bookshelf’s, panels. Single driver, Electrostatics, full size the works. I owned these Ascendo C8’s for years and loved them. I bought them right after owning a pair of Wilson Sofia 2 and they are much better IMO. That rear firing ribbon tweeter is odd and I never used it but some people like it I guess. 

So the challenge with these is similar to the pair of Martin Logan Summits I owned. To get the bass driver to match the panels speed and blend properly. 
Your speakers have an internal base driver that honestly I worked hard to find a good match. I first tried tubes CJ, ARC, PL, etc.

Then SS. Pass, Krell, Mac, Ayre. 
Here is the thing. They need / demand driver control / high damping factor. Give them the best driver control and juice you can afford. 
I now use Magico S5 MKII and these respond best with Soulution and Vitus IMO. Both grab and hold the drivers so we’ll. Of course there are other great matches. 
Your speakers have some warmth to them so I recommend SS for sure. 

The 88db / 6ohm is not what to look at really. The better driver grip the more your internal driver will march that nice mid and tweeter set up. Focus on the amps grip. Trust me. Get the highest damping factor you can afford. Watts help but damping factor will lead you to the promise land. 

Forget about brands or recommendations. Get a high quality SS amp with the best driver control / damping factor and you will thank me. I tried a dozen amps to get these right and difference was night and day. 
What is your budget. 
For example for my Magico S5 MKII I was using Pass Labs XA160.8 with damping factor of 200. Pure class a, warm great amps and I was happy. My Magico’s are no where close to relying on damping factor specs compared to the C8 but as a rule Magico’s really want their drivers held petty tight. My Soulution 530 has a damping factor of 10,000 vs the Pass Labs 200. Nelson keeps them sort of loose and that helps give them that warm, round and inviting sound.

With my Soulution I unplugged my pass amps and plugged in my 530 and let it warm up for a couple hours playing Roon radio and did some yard work and came Back in and had a listen and was blown away. The Pass Labs class a monobocks were gone in less then a week. 
The 530 is a very expansive amp but still for Ascendo C8 you need to get the highest damping factor you can afford. 
Now I’m not saying this is the only spec that matters. Get the best quality SS amp with the highest damping factor you can afford. Watts mean nothing really but can help. My Soulution is 130 watts and blew away a 450 watt amp so please do your home work. 
Maybe some folks on here know of a good high damping factor amp that sounds great in your price range. 
What is your budget? 
Will you consider a used amp? 
@pal   

I am looking for a greater sense of presence in the music. More body in the vocals and space between instruments.

This part is very helpful - now we understand what you're looking for.  I actually think your speakers are holding you back from achieving this much more than your amp.  Those Ascendo C8's are not necessarily the fastest nor the most dynamic (particularly at lower volumes).  I would opt for a speaker change before considering an amp switch.
Audio Research made some--50 and 75, I believe.  You might want to check them out while seeking one for your system.

Cheers!
I recently purchased a new Hegel H390 for $4800.00. It is a very good product. Compares very well to the $11k H590, in fact, a lot of the electronics are shared.
While Parasound does have a warm cuddly sound, they are class A/B, and do run warm. W4S is class D , has a cooler sound but very efficient. So if, electricity is a concern...
Underwood had a couple W4S integrated on sale at a deep discount. You would need to check with them
Like someone earlier stated. The Manley Laboratories, "Stingray Integrated", sounds comparable to many Hi-End, "separates". 
It is basically their "Mahi", mono-block design. Just two of them built on the same chassis with a preamp section as well. .It also comes with a nice remote. Also a In/Out loop which I used for pre-out to my subs and crossovers. So you can have subwoofers in stereo also.. But you could "Sum" for just one if needed.
I just happen to have one too.. In case you would like to try it. "I now have several sets of the, "Snapper" and also, "Mahi", mono-block amps for use with my mains". The tubes have low hours also. That, since it wasn't long, "About a week" after purchasing it that I went for all the mono-blocks!~
and the Neo Classic 300B preamp.....
If you liked the ARC sound, I think you'd be happy with their Vsi75. I've seen them used in the $6500 range.
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After years of wondering I finally satisfied my curiosity and picked up a preowned Devialet. Strictly digital playback for me utilizing the ethernet connection on my home LAN. Source is a remote located headless Mac Mini running Audivana playback software - remote control from laptop via screen sharing. Only external connections are ethernet, power and speaker cables. Verdict... ? Awesome - I’m selling my other stuff - Pass, Vinnie Rossi, etc.

This was with entry level Devialet D120 - quickly upgraded to Expert 220 Pro (also purchased preowned). Love the minimalist setup and form factor (who doesn’t have room for a chrome-plated pizza box that can be mounted vertically on the wall). Terrific phono (if analogue is your bag), 220 has configurable pre outs for subwoofer connections. If you speakers have a SAM profile listed on the Devialet site you can take advantage for even better electro-mechanical interface.

If you want to forego all of the peripheral madness (ended years of expensive, needless and endless quest for the "latest and greatest" for me) check out Devialet as an all-in-one. Won’t appeal to the "more boxes the better" crowd and those that enjoy obsessive tweeking (not that there’s anything wrong with that). Also, not everyone will submit to the Devialet ecosystem. For those that do, prices on the preowned market offer ridiculous value at a fraction of the original MSRP.

Disclaimer: This suggestion comes from an individual in the twilight (heh - 64 years of age is not old) of his audiophile journey looking for simplicity and ease of use without sacrificing performance.

Best of luck on your search.




Thanks again for all the great suggestions. It gives me a lot to research. I am looking for a greater sense of presence in the music. More body in the vocals and space between instruments. I loved my system when I had an audio research ref3 pre and pass 250.5 but personal circumstances forced the sale of them. I am now in my sixties and want to keep it simple with an integrated. I do like the rogue for the price but want to move up a bit.
If there is anyway you can hear a Lyngdorf TDIA 2170 or 3400 you might like those. Love mine. Their room correction is the real deal. 
Very Happy with Krell Vanguard Digital. You can pick it up at a good price
The New Krell K-300i sounds great it comes in between $7000 $ 8000.
Little over budget. I have several sets of speakers ELAC Uni-fi Ubi .
Dynaudio Contour 20, B&W 805 Nautilus. Focal 100BE, And Audio Engine  HDP-6. Wilson Watt Puppy series 7. One Balance in on the Krell. So I use a XLR switch box. The DAC is OK however I like using my Ps audio Direct stream JR.
Good luck                
I think you might be surprised by the sound the Parasound Halo integrated amp delivers for the money.  Bet if you did a blind test, you might take the Parasound.  Great frequency response curve.  
You might want to look at the Ayre EX-8 which should meet your criteria, It's a great sounding amp and has the option for a built in DAC and streaming capabilities. Good Luck!

https://www.ayre.com/products/amplification/ex-8/
The Ayre AX5-Twenty was the most amazing integrated I’ve heard. I got a VX5-Twenty amp and pair it with my BAT preamp but the integrated sounds better at least in my system and with my musical tastes
BAT makes great gear but this suggests you'd be happier with a KX-5.
@tweak1 :  The really good news is EP is blowing out their remaining inventory as they are moving assembly from Texas to CA, I think.

ARE THEY CRAZY, my prediction is that if they go into CA, they will be out of business in a year.  You can't smoke enough POT to make the crazy rules/regs and cost of living and working in CA justified.

Try a 2020 stereophile class A rated integrated the Anthem STR it has an excellent dac plenty of inputs, sub out and ARC to help integrate the subs. It has very neutral sound if your source is lousy it's not going to color it for you unless you want to use some of eq it provides. Crutchfield has a 60 day return policy. 
My personal experience with attempting to add subs goes way back: Sunfire 10s then 12s, much later and still unplugged SVS Ultra and Plus (the ones that look like tall barrels). These I tried when I had Magnepan 3.5Rs (hope those 3.7s mentioned earlier are significantly better, but I have my doubts). I tried using an active XO but the cheap ones kept blowing up. Looks like OCD Hifi Guy is having Marchand make a new version which would be worth checking out.


I replaced the 3.5Rs with a pair of Emerald Physics KCIIs with 2 significant factory upgrades: they came with a BOM which essentially blends subs into the main speakers. Again no bueno (not good). The KCIIs blew away all my attempts to marry 3.5Rs and subs. They are capable of really good bass on their own, with an incredible 3D soundstage AND are super efficient, BUT, my room is 19 x 35 x 12 with lots of glass on front and back walls, plus open up/down stairwells. My point is: why not let the speakers make the bass instead of the extra cost of a sub, interconnect, power cord, and struggling to find the best placement in your room. Most likely, that requires 2 subs

The really good news is EP is blowing out their remaining inventory as they are moving assembly from Texas to CA, I think. The 4.4s (I think) with 15" driver (I saw an adv on Agon) would bring you a lot more quality bass MSRP $6000, BUT, you can own them for $1600.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649617064-emerald-physics-44-moving-sale-brand-new/

OR

3.4s $5K/$995!K,

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649616505-brand-new-emerald-physics-34-direct-from-the-factory-m...


hth





Klh007 just ready for a change. Part of the audiophile phobia.
If you can’t elaborate any more than that about what improvements you’re looking for or what you value most in sound reproduction, this will just be a random crapshoot.  If that’s all your after, enjoy. 

And now for something completely different... Lyngdorf TDAI 3400 does it all, and sounds just ‘right’
In your price range I would recommend EAR Yoshino V12. It's one of the most beautiful int. amplifiers I have ever owned and also very close to my current setup Atma Sphere (which is more expensive but also much better)
Inserisci il tuo testany Accuphase integrated amplifier ... you won't think about anything else! ...

Stanislao
Opinions are like A  _ _  H _ _ _ _ ! Everybody has one. I have no idea what part of the country you reside. If per chance you are reasonably close to a quality audio dealer that carries several brands of integrated amps, in the price range mentioned, I suggest spending a day listening to everything he has with different loudspeakers. You should walk away with a better understanding and audible opinion of what truly sounds best to you.
My personal opinion, (yes I have one too ) would be the the PASS INT-60 paired with MAGNEPAN 3.7i. If that doesn't take you to a completely different world of audio reproduction and appreciation, I don't know what will.. The whole package will be a bit beyond your budget, but the end result will be worth it. It's a system that you could live with for many many years.
For SS:
Hegel 390
Valvet 
Lejonklou

Tube:
Line Mag.
Manley

So, what to do?

Buy a used Pass INT 60.
I recently replaced a Rogue Cronus Magnum II with a Manley Stingray II. The Manley is quite excellent and compares to much more expensive separates in my main system. If your speakers are efficient enough, use the triode mode. 
If you are looking for something different and excellent, you could try a Gato Audio DIA-250S. One of the best integrated you can currently  find, made in Denmark by ex Gamut engineers. I had one paired with my Arts Prestige 8.3, Spendor d7, and Q Acoustics Concept 500. Simply amazing with all of them. 250wpc at 8ohms and 500wpc at 4ohms. It is a class D, but sounds like the best Class A/B I had.
The built in DAC is something special.They are using a direct sales channel, and currently applying 40% off.
You can even add the network module, which is ROON ready. 
Like Millercarbon, I am a big Raven Audio fan.  Please check out their website and then call Dave Thomson.  He is a wealth of audio information and he has some of the best tubes in the world bar none.  There is also an integrated amp in various price ranges.  I personally owned the Raven Reflection MK2.....simply put - outstanding.  
The mfrs that I have in that range are YBA, parasound, Hegel, McIntosh, Moon, Jolida, Plinius and Musical Fidelity. These are all integrated and I will die with them. I know there are lots of other good choices out there but these ones punch above their weight. IMHO. 
The mfrs that I have in that range are YBA, parasound, Hegel, McIntosh, Moon, Jolida, Plinius and Musical Fidelity. These are all integrated and I will die with them. I know there are lots of other good choices out there but these ones punch above their weight. IMHO. 
I've also listened to a Prima Luna EL34 integrated, I dont remember the model, but it costed about 3.5k USD and I wasnt impressed at all. 
+1 to Line Magnetic LM-508IA or LM-805IA.
Its on another league for me too and for a guy I know that have tried many Line Magnetic amps an another brands, those models are the best. 
I've tried my LM-508IA vs a well regarded class D amp that I also own and the LM-508IA is better. You wont regret it. Its a beast. 
If you are going to go tubes, Line Magnetic 805ia over the PL Evo 400 any day. It’s in a different league and within your budget. Every single person who’s actually listened to both will say so. As an example, someone above said that Spendors D7’s with the PL sounded sloppy and boomy, whereas many people pair the LM and Spendors with excellent results. It’s really an amazing amp.
Seconds on Parasound gives you everything that you need and John Curl designed.
@pal As @klh007 asked, what can you tell us about the sonics you’re seeking in an upgrade that you’re not getting from your amp? I can’t believe (well yes I can) people are just recommending gear left and right without even understanding your musical priorities. People will always just recommend their favorite brands or what they use themselves without listening to you or asking probing questions.

Can you describe the "change" you’re looking for? If you are simply looking for a change then that’s easy - just buying something else....anything else.

And why do you need a line out for a sub?  Many people find it sounds best to simply connect to a high level input on a sub.
The Ayre AX5-Twenty was the most amazing integrated I’ve heard. I got a VX5-Twenty amp and pair it with my BAT preamp but the integrated sounds better at least in my system and with my musical tastes. I believe you can find a used AX5-Twenty in your price range. 
Look into Octave. I heard a v110 pushing some dynaudio Contour 60s and it really dominated them. Clean clean sound with a little tubeyness and some balls. 
I own the PrimaLuna Evo 400 and it sounds beautiful with my Salk Sound Song3 speakers. I have heard the Mark Levinson and thought it was a good amp also.
You can pick up a used Naim Supernait 2 for relatively cheap now that the SN3 has just been released, but even a new SN3 would fit in your budget.  Won't have balanced input, but it'll do you right in engaging you with the music, is built like a tank, and drive most speakers you are liable to throw at it (should be fine at 88db sensitivity with yours).
@Pal, what is the Rogue not doing in your system? Have you rolled 12AU7s to better serve your wants?
I think the ML 585 has a DAC. Build quality is great. Luxman 505ux is a good sounding integrated. I used that with Harbeth SHL5s and great synergy. Pass makes some nice integrated sound as well. Always best to audition in your home if possible!