Large speakers plus EQ, what have you done?

Not too long ago in my living room I had a pair of Polk R700's for streaming & stereo TV. I have a decent null at 50hz & a huge boost/peek at 42.

Initially I was using an Arcam SA30 with its Dirac & SVS subs & their PEQ App. The Arcam crapped out on me & then I tried a MiniDsp DDRC-22D. The minidsp is basically a 2 channel dirac box. Multiple digital inputs & digital outputs only..so you can use your favorite dac. I upgraded the power supply & ditched the subs. I had a hard time incorporating the subs & mains with the 2ch dirac minidsp. 

The Minidsp/Dirac worked well for bass. Eventually though I didn't like what it was doing to the mid & high frequency. I wasn't well versed in Dirac & apparently I shouldn't have been trying to correct anything over 2 to 300hz. But I had a peak around 1khz I was trying to tame as well. This was my living room...no acoustic treatment. The DSP device worked well with the bass though. Lots of time measuring & remeasuring. 

After I grew tired with the Minidsp I hooked a RME ADI-2 Dac to the TV/Streamer. I used a Super Farad 3 power supply I had with the dac & hooked the Dac straight to amp (class D Hypex Nilai). I love that little Dac. Great volume control & cool loudness function that adjust with volume. Best thing though is that it has 5 PEQ tabs..and 2 extra but  limited PEQ tabs you can set up for a Bass & Treble tone control. You can also set the PEQ for each channel individually. 

With a Umik & REW software I could measure the room & see my issues. The Dac had just enough PEQ tabs to dial in my bass & any issue in the higher frequency. Plus it sounded more natural than using Dirac to my ears...at least in the upper frequencies. I'm back to bookshelves now in that room but was very happy with how a little PEQ helped my overall bass response. Obvious issues is that it only worked for digital sources. It's also a dac that not everyone will appreciate as much as I did. 

My AR 9 speakers and Technics SH-8020  eq works for me

Have Audio Refinement (YBA) separates and speakers:

• AR Pre 5 analog preamp running in stereo mode only
• AR Multi 5 amp using front 2 channels only (stereo mode)
• ProAc Studio 148, grills off, on Soundocity SEV9 outriggers

Speakers can get a little bass heavy (they easily go down to 25Hz) plus have an upward treble tilt in my room. Added a Schitt Loki Mini+ 4 band equalizer between the preamp and amp. It had the ranges I desired for modification, is very quiet (and runs a little warm), got it used in excellent condition for a great price and is black like the rest of my system.

Overall, I am very happy with the new addition and results. I would recommend getting one.

My crude method is an API parametric  equalizer.Starting with the Amroc room mode calculator to see where the problem frequencies in the bass are I adjusted the frequencies by ear and left it alone. If I were to someday purchase longer cables I would have it next to me and fiddle with it to fine tune sometimes.But I'm happy enough with the sound now that it's not important.

Does building a custom room or optimizing the room with treatments count as EQ ing ?

@ronboco

Really not for this discussion. Once we go there the whole thread goes to a general discussion about how to get better bass, which is NOT actually what I want to talk about in this particular thread. I’m asking about this particular approach (2 large speakers + active equalizer) and those with direct experience with it.

Of course, if you tried that and then decided it didn’t work as well as another approach, that’s fine to talk about.

Audiogon is absolutely lousy with discussions that have devolved into general bass improvement threads, that and whether Class D is there yet. I would prefer not to do another one here.

Best,

Erik

I have large floorstanders with usable response down to 25Hz, which fits your criteria. These are positioned in a very large room with good symmetry and minimal surface reflections. The crossovers are well designed and free of glaring flaws, yielding fairly even response at my listening position as measured using REW. What I needed was a bump in bass to suit my tastes and minor adjustments along the frequency response curve to smooth and taper.

I originally used DSP but eventually abandoned this in favor of a dbx 2231 dual 31-band graphic EQ, using REW measurements to assess the results. This EQ delivered solid measurements in ASR’s testing, but I was nevertheless concerned that it would increase the noise floor, diminish resolution, or compromise the expansive soundstage I enjoy in a perceptible way. My own testing has demonstrated this not to be the case. I have been completely satisfied with the results.

While this route cannot resolve glaring room issues or flawed speaker/crossover design, it is a demonstrably viable option for those wanting to contour the bass or entire frequency spectrum to suit their preferences. It is most applicable to those using only balanced XLR interconnects (RCA not supported), who require minimal adjustments, and who use REW to verify the results.

I don’t know of this qualifies as to your question or if I am off base here, but...I have the Legacy Focus XD’s which produce (to my ears) the best bass I have ever heard. To control it I purchased the Matching Wavelet II outboard crossover/DSP/Preamp and it made a massive improvement in the bass performance. The bass is not boomy, it is deep, defined and well textured-it gives me goosebumps. As I have made improvements to electronics and cabling it just keeps getting better in the bass. The Wavelet can be purchased and programed to mate to non Legacy speakers too. It works!

I use the Emerald Audio BOM (Bass Optimization Module) with my KEF 107 speakers and it works well. 

I had some large Usher speakers for my large audio rooms then I moved to a new house with a 16’ audio rooms. I tried using dsp to tame the bass for 3 years. I got it where it was ok sounding but something was missing. I also had the super bass traps, asc corner tube traps, etc..

I ended up buying some new Revel speakers with multiple smaller woofers. Got rid of dsp, all super bass traps, and the pair of other traps, and I have all the bass that I want, as quiet or as loud as I want. I’m putting up all the speakers/traps up for sale. Size your speaker to the room without al the overhead you need to get something to big to sound good in a smaller room.

Does building a custom room or optimizing the room with treatments count as EQ ing ?

Hi @erik_squires Nice to see you back! Summarizing, I’ve applied various DSP corrections in Roon to all my speakers in various rooms, large and small, in order to tweak the sound to compensate for room acoustics as well as to my personal preferences.

First I apply room correction using convolution filters I created using REW software.

In most cases after that there are still additional filters I apply to the bass like notch filters to specifically address bass nodes further if needed. Also with full range speakers when driven by beefy enough amp I may apply a low shelf filter to boost bass levels somewhat to personal preference.

With less than full range speakers and/or with a more limited amp, I typically will roll the lowest octave or so bass off similarly in order to allow the amp to drive the speakers more cleanly.

To help determine what adjustments for room acoustics may be needed still after applying the convolution filter, I play white noise and measure the response to identify any areas that look clearly out of whack, but my ears are still the final arbitrator based on what I hear playing a variety of tracks.  

That’s it generally. Details will vary case by case.

Current speakers Paradigm 120H. Powered woofers with room correction from 300h down. Without running the room correction still sound good but with it engaged much tighter more articulate bass. Non corrected sounds much more bloated boomy and loose in comparison. 
 

I do use subs, for the reason being that what and how they do it isn't found in integrated form in a pair of floor-standing main speakers (the subs take up 20 cu. ft. per cab, as a FIY). The main speakers are large (6 ft. 2" in height) as well, and in conjunction with each of their corresponding sub is considered and treated like a single speaker system per channel. The system covers down to 20-25Hz at full tilt. 

If that's an acceptable outset for the criteria set by the OP (again, essentially they're large floor standing speakers divided into two cabs per channel, treated and configured as a single entity), here's the deal: they're "EQ'd" actively over the entire frequency range by the same, quality DSP unit, and as such - combined with placement and acoustic measures - gives you an elaborate way to "morph" the performance at the LP in all aspects of filter settings - on the fly. Normally one isn't granted such a plethora of EQ'ing possibilities, and thus the performance of speakers is mostly rooted in their pre-configured passive filters (and room integration) with any EQ'ing done "on top" of this as an extra measure/layer, either via DSP or some form of analogue equalizer device.

I find having the opportunity of described active EQ'ing capabilities to be indispensable. We near-field measured my main speakers for notch placements, and measurements at the LP indicated PEQ areas in the filter settings. Everything from hereon was done by ear; fine tuning Q's, gain structure, delays, crossover points, slopes, overlapping/not overlapping (asymmetrical) XO points, etc.

I've tried DRC FIR-filter in both the time and amplitude domain over my previous, passively configured speakers, but wasn't entirely satisfied with the results as I found there to be a noticeable processing imprinting. As is I prefer the more "manual" by-ear approach aided by measurements, actively - meaning the EQ'ing is applied at the heart of the speaker's intrinsically necessary DSP crossover as the only signal layer.  

I had some Klipsch LaScala's that i tried DSP, mainly for time alignment and better control of the bass cabinet. worked well but in the end, I preferred a newer designed passive crossover, it just sounded more naturel to me. Granted you miss out on some of the DSP functions and lose a bit of bass control and integration.

Note at the time i listened to vinyl primarily so that was a consideration, having to digitize the signal seemed to lose something in the musical side even with the benefits of the better driver integration. Potentially a better DPS then the one i used would help here.

lastely i would not use your ear for adjustment ( other then minor) if your going to digitize it anyway may as well use proper messurments and adjust to the room. Thats the biggest advantage of DSP IMO

You may think this is another method, in any case, it's relative to the bass.

’Good Enough’, don’t try for Perfection, just adjust what you already like.

Document what you have to start, and results of changes. Patience!!!!

Start with test tones from a CD (not LP, something in your alignment could be slightly off)

CD, tracks 9 to 38 are 29 1/3 octave test tones

Measure at listening position, seated ear level

Sound Pressure Meter, need hole for tripod mount

Chart, copies, write things down, use Pencil. I made enlarged copies of the booklet track listing.

Adjust, how?

My speakers, 15" woofers, you do not adjust the bass, you adjust the midrange horns (2) and horn tweeter relative to the bass, with pair of built-in L-Pads, so more or less mids, then adjust the tweeter horn to the mids,

One side, other side, then both, reduce ? back and forth, take a break, until the best you can do, took me 1-1/2 days last time.

then use your ears: old ears like me, typically boost the highs some but not too much.

Use music you are very familiar with for the final by ear adjustments, i.e. Eurythmics ... Cassandra Wilson, War of the Worlds Richard Burton’s voice, Enough is Enough Streisand/Summers Duet .., Friday Night at San Francisco 3 guitarists last 2 tracks

EQUALIZER, no level controls, why not see what one can do?

31 Band, Dual Channel EQ (DBX Clone, identical)

Adjust the Equalizer using the SPL Meter, when done it has Bypass IN/OUT Switch, so you hear any detriment if any, when IN at zero, when OUT, and hear results of any adjustments. Use the meter, use your ears last.

After messing about with it, I disconnected it. Waiting for friends with younger ears to let me know what they hear.

I'd be interested in other's findings as well.

I just remembered that Vandersteen had some models with built in bass amp and EQ, those definitely count!