Klipsch Cornwall IV

audioman58 is right. Loose the Oppo! I owned a 105. It's good bang for the buck but high end it ain't. It surprises me constantly to see and hear systems with multi thousand dollar turntables and a sub $1000.00 CD player. No wonder people claim to not like digital. Fix the most broken part of your system first. Joe 

This might be of interest
https://youtu.be/EIHTMGIxLxc

I'm also not worried about their physical presence. I mean, if you're going to have speakers, then have speakers. As long as they are aesthetically pleasing, that I can make them work aesthetically in a room

Over here, in my digs, my Cornwall IV's are driven by a First Watt Sit-3 (18 wtc), with music streamed (Qobuz) through an Auralic Altair G1. 
I have not enjoyed the privilege of auditioning many components and/or systems, so I cannot know if my Cornwalls would sound better with a different amp or if my amp/dac would sound better with different speakers. I _do_ know that this combo sounds great to me!
The ability to project intimacy, nuance, depth and texture while also being capable of producing ear-to-ear grins from the power and dynamics satisfies my two most important criteria! 
  

@jayrossi13 Nice success story. You’re not the first CW owner I've read about who nearly gave up but ultimately found bliss. My CWs arrive on Monday, if YRC Freight comes through; I better brace myself for some serious travails. Good to hear the effort is likely to pay off.

My Cornwall experience:

I went from Harbeth SHL5+ to Klipsch Forte III and ultimately to Cornwall IV.

Going from the Harbeth to the Forte III, I immediately appreciated the increase in dynamics and having way more amplifier choices (in my experience, matching an amp to Harbeth is critically important--and not only from the perspective of power).

I drove the Forte with solid state and tubes, liked both. I enjoyed the Forte so much that I wondered what the Cornwall could add so when a pair popped up for sale locally I jumped on them.

Unlike the Forte, I wasn’t enamored right away. First, they are physically enormous--which I did not fully appreciate until they were in my room. They also required significantly more time and attention to properly set up.

I almost gave up after the second day, however, after a few hours of tweaking, and lots of blue painters tape, I got them dialed in. Finally, I was rewarded with the sound that owners rave about. The soundstage is absolutely massive, they are dynamic and I can listen for hours.

While not ruthlessly revealing, they are not as kind to poor recordings as the Forte are.

I’ve powered them with a Naim Uniti Nova and an Audio Note Cobra. Each have their respective strengths but I prefer the Cobra.

At the end of the day, the CW IV sound fantastic and I’m glad I stuck it out through the set up period.

I was actually considering changing from my Tyler acoustics highland h2 to the Cornwall iv. I have heard the Cornwall iv but not in my own home and thought they sounded nothing like the ones i heard in the 80's and 90's.  The iv's were way more open and better sounding and a very fun speaker to listen to. 

@ozzy62 no worries. I’ve been around this forum long enough to separate the wheat from the chaff. And to make myself seem older than I am by using phrases like " separate the wheat from the chaff." And I appreciate all the advice I get on here. I’m actually kind of worried that Miller carbon hasn’t chimed in. Is he okay?


If I ever do get rid of my spatial m3s, it won’t be until this summer at the very least. An update however I find myself being drawn back to Triangles. Specifically the Delta’s or the cellos. I know, I know; a completely different sound than the cornwalls.


One more update: in my listening room/ 1/2 of the finished basement, I can put the speakers wherever I want in terms of spacing. What I can’t move is my listening position: My listening loveseat backs up against one of the support pillars for the basement, you know, those pillars at extend between the floor and the I-beam. I mean, I could go behind that, but then I have this unavoidable, albeit pleasantly camouflaged, pillar right in front of me. All this means that my speaker to listening position distance is pretty rigid

You weren’t the jack leg I was referring to. A handful of members come in this thread and spout off about a speaker they have never heard. And if I didn’t call them out on it, the OP might just assume they are commenting on the one he was asking about.

I wouldn’t go into Mustang forum thread asking about a current Mustang and say they suck because I owned a Mustang II back in 1979. Two different cars from different eras.

Same thing.

Where is there a high end audio dealer in Huntsville?

This jack leg (me} has never heard cornwall 3's or 4's. That said, I was a Klipsch dealer from 1989-1993 and was open from 1885-1993. Also sold B&W, Vandersteen, Eminent Technology, Mordaunt Short, Spendor, and other speakers. I recall taking a pair of Cornwall 1's in on trade, dont recall on what, but DO recall being astonished on just how good the CW'S sounded, especially with low wattage tube gear. The cornwalls were a discontinued item at that time, and I seriously wondered why. They certainly didnt have the highest quality drivers, crossover networks, etc but they did make you wake up and go WTF? when you threw on some audiophile material. At the time we had Khorns, chorus's, forte's, quartets, kg4s, kg2s, and I dont know what else, and I was impressed morseso by these 70's cornwall trade ins. I would have kept them for myself at the time if I could have afforded to. Circa 1990. Other trade ins I took home and later sincerely regret parting with were Apogee Duetta Signatures, Acoustat 6's, Marantz model 2's. McIntosh MI-75's.... ugh, Im gonna get sick if I keep thinking about it.

Oh bottom line, I imagine the Cornwall iii's and iv's are worth giving a listen to, but I would NOT commit to buy either until I had spent at least some time with them, especially at the 2021 price points.

I traded in my Cornwalls for stacked Wharfedale Linton Heritages and feel it was a significant improvement.

Cornwall IV?

I traded in my Cornwalls for stacked Wharfedale Linton Heritages and feel it was a significant improvement. 

The are useless on string bass, especially when it is an electric stand up. Way too loose! I don’t like anything about them, but, I can certainly see why a person who has a lot of pre=fi LP’s might think they reproduce old albums (Pre-1960) well.

Dollars to donuts this jack leg has never heard a Cornwall IV, which is the subject of the thread.

Not much to add except if you love horns and want a big sound under $10k, these speakers are it. Yes, I own them. :-)

If they are too big, the Heresy IV  with sub or two are amazing.

The are useless on string bass, especially when it is an electric stand up.  Way too loose!  I don't like anything about them, but, I can certainly see why a person who has a lot of pre=fi LP's might think they reproduce old albums (Pre-1960) well.

I had a pair of them around 1980. They are super efficient needing only 1 watt to drive them. They will rock really loud with prodigious bass. But they will also settle down and play nice. Given their size, I would try and get some listening in before taking them home. I enjoyed them at the time. 

Listening to any speakers in a showroom sharing the space with other speakers, you will always hear bass problems ( all the woofers are playing, via spl ). It is basic acoustics. I know there are a lot of Klipschers out there, besides myself, but imo, if you listen loud ( I do, and with Heritage, you can and it is easy ), further damping on the horns, woofer frames, cabinets, crossovers ( and yes, the new model IVs as well ), will significantly improve what you are hearing. Not a single client of mine has ever said to me " I do not hear a difference of improvement ". Tubes vs SS. Whatever you like, as I prefer ss, through horns. MOSFET Class A, for me, anytime. Just what I like. Enjoy !

I have been listening to the CW IV since December in my room.  They are staying put. 

To me, they sound like a live production.  The create a large, seamless soundstage--once I dialed in the positioning, which was surprisingly harder to do than I thought. 

One caveat--  they are super revealing of source and amplification.  Amplification, in particular, has been a fun journey for me.  

Personally, as someone who plays music, they sound like real music.  There are wide dynamic peaks and troughs.  Classical--one of my least favorite genres (only because I get lost in it so quickly) is so much more dynamic and thrilling.  

I'm now that guy pushing 50, using all tubes (pre amp, amp, sources (phono and DAC) and running horn speakers.  I couldn't be happier.  

I have a large-to-me room.  It's about 22' long, 15.5' wide, with 10 foot ceilings.  I do run a REL T9i sub, BUT it's set so low on the crossover and volume setting so as to just fill in that extra octave.  

Someone above thought the bass was lethargic or less than impressive. In my experience, these are not bass heavy speakers yet they do go down into the 30s.  Everything effects the output with these, so just trying a different amp or source or tube or cable can change things more drastically (but not drastically) than I was historically used to.  

If you can spend a touch more, I'd look at Volti's offerings.  I think his stuff gets real pricey when you start looking at nicer finishes.  

I've tried the Cornwall IVs with 4 different amps and my go to right now is a Bob Carver Crimson 275--favored even over my 300B.  The pairing in my room sounds "delicious"--I apologize for using the word but it's the best that I can find to describe it.    While I'd be open to trying any amp with them because it's so captivating to hear the immediate differences, I would think cool and analytical amps would sound a touch thin and boring with them.  Nonetheless, there could be a Class D amp that would work.  My takeaway--I don't think you have to spend a fortune to get them to sing and synergy is important, yet I would be sure to try driving them with wide bandwidth amps, particularly of the vacuum tube variety.  

I think the only downside with trying them out is return shipping.  They have to be shipped by freight given their weight and size. 

I tried listening to the 2nd from the TOTL Tannoy's 30K-ish (GR??) powered by a VERY expensive VIVA 845 Tube Amp.  Put on some Zeppelin and was looking for a pillow to sleep on...as Lame as it gets.  Cornwall's are built for Rock...Tannoy's arent....If your into female vocals, Kenny G and other lightweight fluff the Tannoys are wonderful.

Screw klipsch,  buy some Tannoys.

I have a pair of 1977 decorators that have been modded with the Crites crossover and tweeter. I also put a brace across the motor board, side walls are braced to each other as well as the front/rear baffles and corners. Also added braces between the top/bottom of the port. Mid horn was damped with spray and wrapped with felt - no ringing.

I love them. Capable of such delicate, subtle tone and yet can really get "obnoxious" when cranked. Driving them with a 30watt push pull EL34 amp. 

Room is not large 11X18, and I have them set up as per the Cardas speaker configuration. If the IV's are better than this, I would happily get a pair (however, budget does not allow for that)

The CW's and ESL-57's are my main speakers. Very different, which I like, and both are satisfying in their own way.

They certainly occupy some "real estate" in the room, but well worth it :)

I tried raising the front of my Cornwalls slightly too, but found out I didn’t like the shift in the tonal balance.

@wolf_garcia luckily there’s a triangle dealer right across the river in Collinsville. The nearest Klipsch Heritage dealer, I think is up near Springfield Illinois? That’s not too far for me either, relatively speaking. So I could definitely log the line magnetic to either place to see what the sound would be like.


I know the feeling you mentioned. Because when you hear the new speaker there is an instant visceral reaction to the new sound; like tasting a new flavor. And hopefully you like the taste, but if you don't you know it pretty soon

@wrm57 Thank you for the explanation. That makes sense especially with the vacillating impedance from the triangles. I've had triangles before, but they were powered with much higher powered amplifiers, like an arc vs 110, or rogue m180 monoblocks.

Ozzy62 & Schw06,

I do have my Cornwall IV’s toe’d (towed?) in fairly aggressively.  I’d say their axis cross about a foot in front of me. I also raised the front of the speakers about an inch, the idea being to reduce floor reflections.  Plus, it gives the speakers a more jaunty appearance. I like that. :). But, that could be screwing with frequency response in the crossover regions. I don’t recall my old ‘85 cornwalls being so revealing as the IV’s.  But they sounded good with about everything. 

@wrm57 assume I’m ignorant of what you’re saying, even when 20 years experience in this hobby. My line magnetic 518 has taps for four, eight, and 16 ohms. Would that make a difference with those triangles?

I mean simply that a 102 db horn-loaded speaker with a relatively flat load of 8 ohms is going to sound different than a less-efficient speaker that has a deep impedance dip and is made with cones and domes, especially on a lowish-powered tube amp. Not necessarily worse but different, especially in dynamics, which are a primary horn strength. These are different categories of speaker, each with its own virtues to offer. The various taps on your LM will certainly help to match it to the Triangles. They might well sound fantastic together, better than the CWs in some regards. I am by no means suggesting they won’t. But I’d wager the listening experience would be quite a bit different. I, myself, will be experimenting with the Klipsch specifically because I’m looking for a different sound than mid-efficiency cones and domes, which is what I already have in my main system, not as a replacement but another flavor. So it all depends on what you’re after.

After having rejected a couple of pairs of speakers recently (and another pair of well regarded speakers a couple of years ago) I have to emphasize how utterly important it is (to me anyway) to listen before you buy. The speakers I like (and currently own) do exactly what I seem to need, all the time, and they've earned their home. Curiosity has lead me astray and hey...you sometimes  learn from mistakes, although sometimes not so much. It's weird when I get excited for something new and after break-in compare them to what they are trying to replace and think UH OH...damn.

@ bjesien I cant offer an opinion on the Orangutans based on a few shows Ive heard them at. I try to limit my comments to products I've actually owned or have extensive experience with. good luck.

I have crossed them in front of the listening position with good results too. But it was only when I fired the axis behind me that I got what I would describe as excellent results.

I couldn't agree more with Ozzy62. I had very similar feelings about the Cornwalls. Really honing placement made a significant improvement (Mine cross about 12 inches in front of me) but moving from all solid state  to a great tube amp made an ENORMOUS improvement.  

@jdmccall56 I would suggest two things.

Placement. I'm sure you already know this, but attention to detail here will reap huge benefits. I've found that not listening on axis but having the speakers firing well behind the listening position gives the most natural presentation with a huge soundstage. On axis and bad recordings get even worse.

Tubes. I know a lot of people listen to horns with SS amps, but I am a firm believer in the match of a good tube amp and a good horn speaker. I am able to enjoy 95% of all my music with the CW IV and a lot of these are not what I'd call stellar recordings. Pop music is, how shall I say it? It's Pop music, that's about as generous as I can be.

Oz

I have owned a pair since August of last year. I am alternately thrilled and disappointed. They sound great with great recordings and lame with lame recordings. I guess that’s the sign of a revealing loudspeaker. Whether that is a good thing or not will depend on your recordings and system. My system is all class AB solid-state, fed primarily by CD and streaming. And since a lot of my music is pop, I sometimes hear more than I really need to. Ymmv

last time i got to listen to them [cornwalls] was in 1980, i remember their sound to be bombastic, the bass shook my innards on the bass drums, not so much on the organ pedals. contrasting them was an early large mirage tower [forgot the model] which in comparison was a breath of musical fresh air, they just sounded "right" to me whereas the cornwalls sounded loud and visceral. i really would love to be able to audition a modern pair of IVs. i know the composer wendy carlos liked 'em, used 4 of 'em in her studio. 

" All Klipsch Heritage speakers are designed in the USA  by Roy Delgado and manufactured in Hope AR. "
  Having been in the factory and Roy's sound lab in person a year ago October I can verify your comment.

" If you are looking for the true klipsch sound you have to buy one made prior to 1981 otherwise you are buying an asian drivered klipsch not an american drivered klipsch and there is a major difference. "
  Well well well, an authoritative source for components I see. Last time I checked the Eminence woofers used in the CW4 were made in Kentucky. The Celestion tweets driver in England. Don't know about the mid driver.
  Yes the cheaper lines are Chi-com but not the heritage or pro lines.

" @mahlman who in Huntsville is a dealer and has the CW IV on display? I thought all high end dealers were gone in Alabama. Mid-high end stores in Bham are long gone. I think Best Buy tried to put a Magnolia in their Hoover store and it's closed now I believe. They never had the good stuff anyway.   "
  I will have to call my Huntsville speaker buddy and find out. I have never been there but he and his friend were and both were irritated by their experience.

 

Saburo that's a great few lines that you wrote there. I'm sure people can argue the finer points of your observation but nicely done. 39 posts and we get more value in what you write than some who post 20,000 completely idiotic pointless statements. Over the years this site has really been dumbed down but there's hope in sensible comments that talk about tradeoffs. Have yo heard the Devore Orangutans by chance? I'm trying to get a read on CWIV by comparing the o series which I know well. 

@wrm57 assume I'm ignorant of what you're saying, even when 20 years experience in this hobby. My line magnetic 518 has taps for four, eight, and 16 ohms. Would that make a difference with those triangles?

@mlg  In comparison to classic series Spendors and the Harbeth world I came from; string and wood instruments are easier to pick out like violin vs a viola or clarinet vs a bassoon. etc. than on a the CWIV. I can't call it a horn coloration per se but rather a deviation somewhere in freq response. Another shortcoming is the tweeter, its extended and doesn't call attention to itself like past Klipsch speakers but the treble isn't detailed and lacks clarity. Like I wrote before, the CWIVs can be very resolving, more so than a speaker with a much lower sensitivity being superior at dynamic contrast that will leave a Harbeth sounding impotent. It comes down to tradeoffs, if you want dynamic expression that will suspend your disbelief that you're at a live show, the CWIV is masterful at this. Choosing CWIVs will ultimately depend on your sonic priorities, the rest of your system and the type of music you enjoy most.

Zzzing!!

If you are looking for the true klipsch sound you have to buy one made prior to 1981 otherwise you are buying an asian drivered klipsch not an american drivered klipsch and there is a major difference.

Seriously? You ever hear the phrase, “if you don’t know what you are talking about, you should probably stop talking”? Yeah, well that applies here.

All Klipsch Heritage speakers are designed in the USA  by Roy Delgado and manufactured in Hope AR.

I guess you aren’t quite the “speaker master” you think you are........

@saburo, you wrote  "My only nit to pick is tonality of some instruments."  Since the CW IV is said to not have horn colorations, would you mind giving more detail on your comment. Thanks.

@chorus.   My turntable is a VPI HW-19 MK4 with a Hana ML running to a Hagerman Trumpet phono pre - which just arrived a few days ago and is breaking in.

And yes, Decware is right up the road from me and is always an option. I've visited Steve's workshop and place a few times along the audition road.


Interesting about the Oppo - some say it is indeed a consummate swiss army knife of a player that sounds terrific on its own, and others deplore its sound. Compared to my analog rig it sounds a bit thin, but I have many times more money and time invested in my analog rig.

This opinion is not about the Cornwalls but more on your source.
Is the 105 your CD/DVD/Streamer? No TT or other I assume.
If so before you buy another pair of speakers buy a separate DAC.
For $750 -Denafrips Ares2-you will improve your sound much more
than the speaker swap. Or about any Dac you buy.
Have you tried Decware Speakers? 

If you are looking for the true klipsch sound you have to buy one made prior to 1981 otherwise you are buying an asian drivered klipsch not an american drivered klipsch and there is a major difference.

@mahlman who in Huntsville is a dealer and has the CW IV on display?  I thought all high end dealers were gone in Alabama.  Mid-high end stores in Bham are long gone.  I think Best Buy tried to put a Magnolia in their Hoover store and it's closed now I believe.  They never had the good stuff anyway.  

I had CWIV for several months last year and already miss them. They are not your grandad’s CWs from years past nor is the more recent CWIII in the same league. I concur with positives other owners have said about the IVs, I’ll also mention resolution and transparency are quite high and distortion low. My only nit to pick is tonality of some instruments. All in all a terrific speaker anywhere near its 6k price, esp if you favor low-powered tube amps.

I bet the Triangles are terrific. But at 92 db dropping to 3 ohms, they are a very different speaker. It depends on what you're after.

Hmm. There's also a pair of Triangle Magellan Cellos for sale here that would be a divorce-inducer if I bough them. But it's tempting.