Klipsch Cornwall IV

Any speaker brand made, relative of selling price, can be modified and improved ( in most cases ) with better parts, specifically in the cross over. 

They would be kick ass for LRC HT

Anyone using the Cornwall IV's as true LCR home theater speakers? Behind screen or in front. Interested in determining if these would be a good alternative to some other floor standing loudspeakers for home theater. 

PS @larbredor , I didn't swap out that massive 60uF poly cap linked to the woofer.  That would be (a) insanely pricey; and (b) very tricky to enigineer for me. I would have to fasten it off the PCB as it would be too big. 

Don Sachs was of the opinion that this cap would make less difference. I'd agree but qualified on the fact that I'm not an engineer.  I was also more after cleaning up the mids and highs on this loudspeaker.

I have been tempted to figure out the values of the inductors and swap those out for better quality too. However, I keep thinking that the speakers were voiced with those inductors and I don't have the know how or patience to learn how to measure and deal with what inductors do in crossover networks.  I understand it theoretically and that's all. 

Best of luck. I've never questioned my modification to this loudspeaker. I would do it again in a heartbeat. 

@larbredor , 

Sorry for the slow response.  I don't get updates properly on forum threads anymore.  

If you want to upgrade the crossovers on the Cornwall IV, here's your parts list: 

All of the below *2 (2 speakers): 

 

2.7uF

2.2uF

6.8uF

1.5uF

4uF

8ohm/8R resistor (to replace that sand cast guy)

I used VCap ODAM caps and Path Audio resistors. Don Sachs and I both used the same parts I think and we both landed on 10w Path Audio resistors. 

I also changed the binding posts on the rear as I found the previous ones fickle. 

Let me know if you have questions, etc. 

I wanted Cornwalls for my living/HT room, but I had to settle for Heresy IV's.  First world problems.  Alas, the Revel F35s sounded better for HT, so the Heresy IV's went to my office and I'm really liking them in that small (12x10) space.  I looked for used Fortes or Cornwalls for a few months before pulling the trigger on the IVs. I've also got a Mac MA5200 driving older Totem Rainmakers in my office, so something's got to go.

$6K is enough money to that I would be suddenly single if I actually spent it. And yes, @chuke076 , if I did ever drop this much on speakers, I would expect to fart around with toe-in and sucb but not actually modify any hardware. Then again, for some that's part of the fun. I get it. I'm slowly rebuilding an ancient set of Coral speakers just for fun. But those are free.

If I dropped over $6k on speakers, they had better sound pretty damn good stock.  Why anyone would spend all that money and then plan all those mods? Seems like you might be happier with a different speaker to begin with...maybe $6,000 isn't a lot of money to some people.  :-)

Hello,

I just bought a pair of Cornwall IVs. I read the previous posts and discovered the possible optimizations for these speakers. I'm going to start installing dynamax on the tweeter and midrange as well as on the structural steel sheets of the woofers. I will also put dy dynamax on the lower walls of the speakers (on the floor). Regarding the crossover could you give me the list of components to buy cgez Hificollective aix UK? Can you also specify the components to be changed on the crossover (on the image of the crossover) (I am not an electronics engineer but I know how to solder). Some have also changed the speaker terminals? thank you for your help (I live in France)

Let's all enjoy the holidays and try to be kind to each other.

big_greg,

I was referring to what chorus said, not you. I addressed my response to you because you referred to keyboard warriors which I thought was referencing me. Sorry for the misunderstanding. 

 

@roxy54 Your inability to comprehend the written word speaks volumes. 

Nobody asked for an apology and I didn't say what you said I said. It's hard to escape the irony that ignorance is your go to word.

No apologies big_greg. To say that you can't understand why people would like the sound of everything by Klipsch is, to me, ignorant.

  @signalwaves,

Can anyone verify what the crossover frequency is for the mid range driver for the Cornwall IV.

    MF 700Hz HF 5000Hz

Big greg, would you like a glass of the proprietary Cool Aid?

Not to put words in someone's mouth, but I'm guessing that @chorus was saying that he had owned all of those brands, not all of the Klipsch speakers ever made. 

Some of you keyboard warriors need to stop and think before you type.

Agreed smatsui. Pretty ignorant post from chorus.

@djspinner, I love your response.  That made my day! 😂

Is the Harley and brick wall condo included?

would rather listen to about any vintage Altec speaker or a newer

JBL than any Klipsch I have heard. Have owned them all.

You've owned all varieties of Kipsch speaker?  Why would you keep purchasing every variety of a speaker you didn't enjoy?

I can say the same thing about any speaker out there. Some people buy what they think makes them look impressive to others, what makes them look impressive to themselves, or what actually sounds good to themselves. Buy and enjoy what sounds good to you. 

One of the most interesting mysteries in audiophilia is why 

so many people like the Klipsch sound. I like horns in the midrange

but would rather listen to about any vintage Altec speaker or a newer

JBL than any Klipsch I have heard. Have owned them all.

Can anyone verify what the crossover frequency is for the mid range driver for the Cornwall IV.

Thanks

Uh, it's all in there. Why not sort through it yourself? You'll learn something.

Can anyone summarise the thread and pin it... like to get a clear story of what was upgraded and some pics/pricing tips ... good work guys but if I want to do the same kinda upgrade i think more details would be great...

ps I see a guy on eBay selling a CWIV pair ready made with Nedlab capacitors, Erse coils. any thoughts? 

ramble: when I got my CWIVs I tried to tighten the terminals onto my Nordost cables and they snapped used very little force! Luckily the dealer swapped out the speakers... the are very soft metal... which would be ok if the were pure copper... but just cheap I guess ... Graham in UK

I had Manaplanar 2.5 so getting a bit more 3D image from upgrade would be great... Roon with a DSP curve to tame the top and boost the bottom is great... but still a bit edgy for me on some tracks... even tho I am 300b tubes. Great speakers and worry I may become deaf! 

My thoughts exactly schw06.   The speaker is an entirely different animal and I could never bear to hear the stock one again:)

Great report and update schw06. Thanks!

It's been a week since upgrading the crossovers. I wanted everything to settle and get enough run in to put my thoughts in print. Let me get this out of the way first: I'm actually disappointed in Klipsch. If they would offer a Cornwall with Dynamat damped drivers and speaker floor, decent feet,  and a quality crossover people would pay good money for that. I am glad they were easy to modify but it was really time consuming and looking inside the Cornwalls you see they cheaped out every chance they could. The good part is they are truly all easy to fix(relatively).
  A pet peeve of mine is when people use percentages to describe improvement...Saying an upgrade was a 20% improvement is really meaningless to me so I will avoid using that description. What I can say with confidence is that if you are making the Cornwalls your long term reference, it's time to get to work. Leaving them stock really gives you a fun and engaging speaker that has brightness you will always fight to tame, watercolor imaging, and tone/timbre that is decent but not truly convincing. I don't mean to disparage the stock Cornwall as I truly enjoyed it but I found listening fatigue would creep in after about an hour and I would find myself walking away to do other things.
   With the crossover upgrade that nagging background brightness is absolutely gone. The speaker now has a relaxed and muscular confidence that is absolutely enthralling. High efficiency speakers can have a tendency to trade relaxation and tonal saturation for speed/dynamics. Now you get them both which almost seems like an oxymoron. Instrument tone/timbre is so much more convincing it's hard to believe and voices are scary real. The ultimate compliment I can give the Cornwalls is that over the last 20 years I tend to listen with my eyes closed...I think I now know why. For various reasons there were things missing in the music that my mind was unconsciously rectifying to make it sound convincing. Since the upgrade I listen with my eyes open. My mind does not have to "connect the dots" of the sins of omission and commission. It is so much more relaxing and I can just sit back for hours with jaws unclenched and shoulders loose rifling through any and all genres of music.
   I would consider the crossover mod an absolute necessity as an upgraded, burned in Cornwall is night and day different to a stock pair. Do not leave that much improvement untapped. If you don't feel comfortable doing the upgrade, pay someone to do it for you. That is money well spent.
   

or play most any Bill Evans live recording, or Oscar Peterson live, or .... well you get it..... Scale, power, and if you improve the crossover parts, the micro detail is amazing and no trace of brightness

There are a lot of great speakers in the world, and this is certainly one of them.

So for anyone doing a demo on the Cornwall IV vs. Forte IV !   Let me suggest you play the opening of  SRV 's "Crossfire"   on both.  not many speakers can reproduce that like the Cornwall or K Horn.   The Forte does a pretty good job, but that track clearly demonstrates the Cornwall's sense of scale.   Play it on both , if your room and wallet allow you will be sold on the Cornwall

Way to go @schw06 !  Give us your thoughts when you can.  

Wanted to thank @donsachs and @jbhiller for the guidance and encouragement on the crossover upgrade. While not my first time soldering I would still consider myself a "beginner" with circuit board work. Honestly the project is not difficult and really only requires patience and methodical work. It took me about 4.5 hours to complete. I've been hesitant to do the upgrade but Don Sachs kept nudging me saying I haven't heard what the speaker is capable of. I'm glad he did and he gave me the confidence I would succeed. If you are planning on making the Cornwalls your long term reference, no need to be intimidated by the upgrade. If I can do it, so can you.

I'm in Chicagoland and happy to host anyone that wants to hear them. Mine are, however, sporting upgrading caps and resistors in the crossovers and upgraded binding posts--if that matters. 

I'm near Raleigh, and have been graciously offered the opportunity to hear Ozzy62's CW4's.  I'll be taking him up on it this weekend.  Can't wait!

I'm in Atlanta if you are in southern NC. You're welcome to have a listen
David

What part of NC? I am in southern virginia so I might not be far from you.

Anybody in North Carolina have a pair of CW4's and would allow for a demo.  Vaccinated, and have a mask.  Thanks,

Actually the Klipsch Heritage line 15% price increase starts September 1st not the 15th like I stated above.

@dbarger, regarding swapping speakers with the CW IV.  Absolutely, I bought my CW IV to swap with my Sterling Broadcast LS3/6 BBC monitor with a REL S5 subwoofer.  The LS3/6 is a great speaker that was just awarded (again) the Golden Ear Award by Robert E. Greene in the Sept 2021 TAS.  I also have the Harbeth M40.1 speakers so I have 2 other great speakers.  The CW IV and the LS3/6 are quite different and that's what I wanted was 2 speakers that are complementary.  The Harbeths are in another system so I don't really swap them. 

The LS3/6s are a speaker that images like a laser, and produce a huge 3D soundstage.  They also are transparent and completely disappear as well as any speaker that I've ever heard.  Their midrange is very natural and the BBC engineers voiced them incredibly well.  The REL S5 sub mates seamlessly with the LS3/6 to make a great sounding full range system.

If you're considering a Cornwall IV purchase, I'd recommend doing it soon.  Klipsch is raising prices again on September 15th by 15%.  This is the second time Klipsch has raised the MSRP since I purchased my CW IV in March 2021.  Back about 3 months ago they raised the the price from $6000 to $6598, beginning Sept 15th, the MSRP goes up to $7588.  I'm happy I bought them when I did for 25% off!  I saw the price increase announcement in an email from Upscale Audio.  

I agree that maybe a separate thread is required for some of the sub-subjects discussed here. 

@dbarger, I very much understand where you are coming from. You make good points about resale and the speaker being great as is.  

I would, however, note a few things about my perspective. 

First, having heard Volti loudspeakers I think the Cornwall IVs are not as good stock as some Volti models, yet they can and should be.  But, I didn't want to spend $10k on Volti units.  

Second, it is utterly apparent from opening up the CW IV that some of the build leaves stuff to be desired.   That 2 x 4 used as bracing, the wonky binding posts, the lack of internal damping,  the hanging foam insulation that appears to be kind of intentional and kind of sloppy, and so on.  

Third, I think a lot of folks' views on capacitor upgrades are influenced by the soldering element.  It seems scary to be welding on new audio gear.  It is important, though, to me to remember that such modification doesn't change the circuit in the crossover network at all.  Instead, better capacitors and resistors are allowing better signal to pass.  I, subjectively, find capacitors to have just as much if not more potential to influence sonics than power cords, cables, tube rolling, and so on--at least when we look at the cost of these things.  And, all these mods are reversible--easily.  

I also think it's important to look at the context of all of this.  My impetus for modifying the Klipsch CW IV was not to change it and it wasn't motivated by me wanting a different speaker.  To the contrary--- I had a keen sense that this speaker could be spectacular.  There's no question that Klipsch built these to a price point. Why?  Everything is built to a price point.  It's the nature manufacturing.  

So I look at this speaker as sort of like a car made by an American manufacturer.  Sometimes they build stuff to state of the art but most times they do not.  If we talk to people who run audio manufacturing or custom build businesses many say (e.g. Atmasphere or Don Sachs) that parts like VCap capacitors are truly better and special.  

Finally, you are totally right--folks should not run from CW IVs because a couple of people modified them to subjectively better heights, and talk about it on a forum.  They are wonderful speakers in their own right.  I never modify something that I dislike, just as some wouldn't buy a $1k, $5k cord or cable for a piece of gear they do not like.  I modify something where my sense is it can be made substantially better without jeopardizing the integrity of the piece.  

If someone is out there considering the CW IV, do it.  They are wonderful stock.  They DO NOT NEED to be upgraded, modified, or changed in anyway to experience wonderful sonics. 

Are others also swapping in other speakers occasionally?

For sure. My primary speakers for the past decade have been PMC Ib2i on customer Sound Anchors, modded with Furutech binding posts. I drive them with a couple of different high-watt Class A solid state amps, a couple of preamps, a few different phono stages. I bought the CW4 as a low-watt alternative (although they sound pretty good with high-watt Class A, too) so I can use SETs and other little amps.

Both CWs and PMCs are on Herbie’s Giant Gliders so I can easily slide either one into a nearby closet, plop in a different amp, and listen to a vastly different approach to sound with no falloff in enjoyment. Takes all of 5 minutes. I love the flexibility.

Very true. Getting out to hear the Fynes soon, have an interest in the Tannoy Arden, Coherent, and the new Soul looks fun too. Never a dull moment. Well, hopefully not!

Well bjesien it sounds like you need both!
For me I always need options.  I don’t always want to hear the same speakers, amps, or sources.  My alternates to the Cornwall 4’s are Dynaudio Heritage Specials, which I also appreciate very much!  They do require different amplification.  While any amps that work on the Heritage Special’s work well with the Cornwalls, not all amps that work well with Cornwall’s, work well with Heritage Specials.
That said, the Cornwall’s are my daily drivers.
Are others also swapping in other speakers occasionally?

The Cornwall was a very fun speaker to spend 2 1/2 months with. A great design and will really keep me engaged with horn speakers in the future. At the end of the day I missed the refinement and clarity of my audiophile ways too much. I was hoping to pull away from such shenanigans but I enjoy chase. For what it’s worth I would buy these again before other speakers I’ve owned including the O/93’s. Very fun.
I can’t seem to stray too far from Verity speakers and I’m back again. Thanks to all the members in this thread that shared great stories and advice and passions for these great speakers.

Maybe a separate thread for modifying this already great speaker?

Also, for whoever is planning to undertake these “upgrades” perhaps you can make a high quality recording before and after?  There is always an element of a chef liking his own soup.  It is unavoidable.  Also, sometimes a perceived increase in detail can become fatiguing long term...  Not to mention what it does to the resale price.  For myself, I never buy anything that says it has been “modified” or “upgraded”.  
Please no flames, I just don’t want folks tuning in to this thread to feel they should stay away from these because they don’t want to upgrade it.  I have built many amps and am a V-cap fanboy but I am not considering changing one thing about this speaker.  We all have our idea of a perfect tonal balance in a speaker.  For me, this is it, as is.

jbhiller,
I guess that I missed something. What was the reason for wrapping the ODAM caps?

Thanks. I appreciate the info.

I wrapped the ODAM bodies with black silicone electrical tape.  Something like this:  https://www.amazon.com/Seal-Self-Fusing-Silicone-Tape/dp/B08B3JSJF3/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&key...=

I honestly didn't glue every last piece down.  I realize vibration could play a role here, but my solder welds were very strong and I positioned things so snugly that nothing is going to move. You could easily put some hot glue or clear silicone underneath replacement parts to go the extra mile.  I believe Don did. I think I put some silicone under two of the biggest caps.  Frankly, everything fits so snugly anyhow.  

I took photos and a video of everything before I disassembled it just so I'd have a reference as to what went where. 

As Don had indicated, you need to ensure the VCap ODAM bodies don't touch anything conductive as they are conducive too.  I started by applying high grade silicone tape (electricians use this to cover high amperage lines).  However, I got a bit nervous about anything touching so I tore it off and started over by wrapping each and every capacitor;  peace of mind.

@jbhiller , many thanks for the details on your mods. Between your experiences and Don Sachs's, I'm getting closer to trying them myself.

So what exactly did you end up wrapping the ODAMs with? And how did you glue them down?