Klipsch Cornwall IV

@dbarger , thanks for the details.

Encouraging report. What are your room dimensions? Are you using a subwoofer?

I bet the Triangles are terrific. But at 92 db dropping to 3 ohms, they are a very different speaker. It depends on what you're after.

That's encouraging, Ozzy. My space has no real corners behind the speakers, with hallways dropping back, so it tends to eat bass waves. And I can't get them closer than 3 feet to the front wall.  And I don't want to add subwoofers. So we'll see. How long did it take for your CW woofers to start delivering all they have?

Timely discussion. A pair of Cornwall IV will arrive this week. I bought them looking for an alternative sound (low watt tubes, high-eff horn-like speakers) to my standard high watt, medium-eff cones and domes system. I’ll be trying them with my stable of 3 watt 2A3 SET, 18 watt EL34 PP, and 36 watt EL 84 PP amps. All vinyl. Should be an adventure! Bought from MD, and I’ve already lined up return shipping by freight, so this is truly an experiment.

FWIW, I brought in Spatial X5 last month and returned them. Not enough flesh on the sound for me, and they needed more power than I expected to energize my largish room. I'm not sure the CW will provide adequate bottom, hence the exit strategy.

@wrm57 assume I’m ignorant of what you’re saying, even when 20 years experience in this hobby. My line magnetic 518 has taps for four, eight, and 16 ohms. Would that make a difference with those triangles?

I mean simply that a 102 db horn-loaded speaker with a relatively flat load of 8 ohms is going to sound different than a less-efficient speaker that has a deep impedance dip and is made with cones and domes, especially on a lowish-powered tube amp. Not necessarily worse but different, especially in dynamics, which are a primary horn strength. These are different categories of speaker, each with its own virtues to offer. The various taps on your LM will certainly help to match it to the Triangles. They might well sound fantastic together, better than the CWs in some regards. I am by no means suggesting they won’t. But I’d wager the listening experience would be quite a bit different. I, myself, will be experimenting with the Klipsch specifically because I’m looking for a different sound than mid-efficiency cones and domes, which is what I already have in my main system, not as a replacement but another flavor. So it all depends on what you’re after.

@jayrossi13 Nice success story. You’re not the first CW owner I've read about who nearly gave up but ultimately found bliss. My CWs arrive on Monday, if YRC Freight comes through; I better brace myself for some serious travails. Good to hear the effort is likely to pay off.

@jayrossi13 Are you on a suspended floor with joists, etc? The reason I ask is, I've had my new CW for a few days, situated on a concrete slab (covered by wood flooring glued down), and I have not been experiencing the bass boom and distortion you've mentioned. Perhaps the woofers' cajones haven't dropped yet, though. lol.

I have new CW4 and my experience is much like dbarger’s. Mine have around 75 hours of playing time on them and they have changed dramatically from day one. The bass, which was initially anemic, has filled in; the highs, strident at first, have smoothed out. Despite these initial sonic issues they were always expressive and dynamic; now they are becoming remarkably coherent and musically satisfying.

I’ve run the CW4 with a range of high-quality amps: 3.5w 2A3 SET, 18w PP 6l6GC, 36w PP EL84; 120w class A solid state. They sound very good--and very different--with all of them. They image and soundstage and do the audiophile stuff surprisingly well. But their quality of dynamic presence and musicality, like a live performance, is what really hooks me. My wife, too, despite their girth.

I bought them fully expecting to return them--even got a freight shipping quote in advance. My main system is mature and finely tuned--a hard lineup to break into. One week in, I do not think they’ll go back. I even cleared out my stereo closet so I can tuck them away when I want to listen to my other speakers, which might never happen. Little pads for furniture make it easy to slide them on hardwood flooring.

As for a comparison with Spatials, I can add that I bought X5 last month and returned them after 2 weeks. To me there’s no comparison in coherence and lifelike musicality. Clayton’s speakers are intelligently thought-out and well-designed, likely an endgame choice for many. But the CW4 make me want to keep listening whereas the X5, not so much.

@jjss49, well said.

On the low-watt topic, I’ve been running my new CW intermittently with an old Moth S2a3 (modded with an external PS). Its 3.5w with Electra-Print iron sound quite good on these speakers, way better than on the Galante Silverdales (99 db) I’d been using in my office system. The Luxman LX-380 snagged for the occasion (18w PP 6L6GC) has more drive and dynamic capability, especially at higher SPLs, but the 2A3 is a special tube and sounds very engaging with the CW4.

An audiophile buddy is coming over this morning for the first time since Covid to listen to all my pandemic impulse buys (long list). We’ll sort through the various amps and topologies in the house to see what works best with the CW4. They’re finally broken in and dialed in and sounding really pretty amazing.

@dbarger, I’ve been itching to try a 300B on these, myself. Do let us know how the LM sounds.

@ozzy62 I've been looking at that amp recently online. Looks very promising! Great to know it works well. Please keep us updated as you get to know it better.

So, for those interested, here are the results in brief. Of course, this is all my room, which is 600+ sq/feet with hallways that fall back from the front wall corners, which means little bass reinforcement. Sources were all vinyl though tube phono stages.

The 2a3 amp simply does not have enough juice to energize the room properly without straining. Would that it were otherwise because I am fond of it and have a wide collections of tubes for it. This amp is an integrated with stepped attenuation, no preamp. At low volume, though, it does all the SET magic, with palpable images and lovely tone. The LX-380 integrated handles the speakers much better, its 18w plenty for unconstrained dynamics. Tonal colors were not a match for the 2A3, with some comparative homogenization of horn voices on octet jazz and classical. Bass was just OK. As a caveat, this amp is new--maybe 100 hours on it; sometimes output transformers can take a while really to come into their own, in my experience. Definitely a good overall sound, though, whether using its internal preamp or a separate (VAC Phi Beta). The best of this session, my friend and I agreed, was unexpected: my highly modified Plinius SA-103 (125 Class A solid state) coupled with the VAC preamp. It controlled the woofers and organized the soundstage in ways that the tube amps could not and delivered a measure of SET-like tonality and richness, likely from the preamp. Dang.

I’m rethinking my approach the CW4. For me a 300B probably would not suffice, as much as I’d like to keep the SET sound. Maybe an 211, 805, or 845 SET. Or I might just surrender to transistors. Naturally, YMMV.

Revisiting some of my amps with the CW4, after further tweaking speaker positioning and placing them on some Herbie’s gliders, I have to agree with @ozzy62 : high-quality lower wattage can drive them beautifully. The 18w Luxman integrated is sounding pretty fantastic and generating excellent bass, well-controlled and accurate, with no strain. I still don’t think a 2A3 SET is right for this speaker in my room, but I question the need for more than 15-20 quality watts, and even fewer in a smaller room.

SET can use about 20-25% before distortion is a problem

Yes, the 2A3 amp was straining audibly by halfway on the volume control. Pity.

Thanks, dbarger. Very interesting.You have some nice amps! How would you compare those big Luxman separates to the LM-845 Premium? The latter has been on my radar for a while, though my reduction in racks from 4 to 3 to accommodate the girth of the CWs would make it difficult to find room for two large chassis.

Slightly off topic, do you ever run the LM-845P with an external preamp? If so, what are your thoughts? I've read the preamp circuitry remains involved even when supposedly by-passed, which is off-putting to me, perhaps for no good reason. I'd likely want to run it with my VAC pre, mainly because it has a sweet phono stage.

Uh, I do get it. This volume control was an AVC passive. My comment about position on the volume control was figurative, intending simply to illustrate distortion well before max wattage. Apologies for the unclear communication.

Oh, it's always in use in one of my other systems, continually since 1999! :) Like yours, it is absolute dead quiet, too, even with headphones. Great little amp.

Thanks. That's a pretty big space, roughly similar to mine. I found my Moth S2A3 to sound wonderful at low volume--the best of any of my amps--but it started to soften on the bottom and strain on top before I felt the room pressurize. Didn't clip, exactly, just lost a little composure and suppleness.

Is your Triode Labs the 2A3 EVO integrated? If so, perhaps the Hashimoto trannies make the difference. Looks top shelf throughout.

I must say, your report is pushing me to put my 2A3 back in for another session!

@simao , yes, as jayrossi said, Moth Audio has been closed for many years. It was a quixotic partnership (literally, out of Hollywood), ultimately unsustainable, that produced great sounding amp-art that looked retro-futuristic and fantastic, like something out of Flash Gordon. Craig has stayed available to service my amp from time to time, and modded it with an outboard power supply that really took it to another level a few years ago.

@dbarger Look at the variety of amps people are using on these!

I just ordered a Kingko KA101Pro, 12 bargain watts of EL84 push-pull goodness out of Hong Kong. Should be fun! I guess this means the Cornwalls are staying :).

I found that putting them on Herbie’s Giant Gliders really evens out the frequency response and cleans up any muddiness in the upper bass and lower mids. Tiny changes in positioning--like a centimeter or less--in any direction also change the sound to a remarkable degree.

@simao , I think the upshot is that you need to audition in your space, with enough leeway to determine whether you can get them where you want them. The CW4 is an extremely resolving and well-balanced speaker that requires painstaking set up to reveal its capabilities. Dealer auditions will never do.

Just order them from a place with a 60-day return, and figure to cost of return freight into your long-term investment in the sound you want. This way you’ll really know. That’s what I did. The trial is up next week but I’ll be keeping them, which I couldn’t say for sure until I spent a lot of time dialing them in. Just one happy CW4 owner’s opinion.

Yes, congrats. Labor well the placement. As with many good speakers, tiny changes make big differences in tonal balance and imaging.

@donsachs , Fascinating report on your crossover upgrades, Don. I’m tempted but don’t really have the skills. You should offer a drop in replacement crossover board! I’d certainly buy it, and I’m sure many others would, too. Just a thought. Well, more of a wish!

Quick update. I’m now some 4 months into my Cornwall IV adventure and they continue to surprise and delight. Amp pairing has been interesting. I’ve used 100w Class A solid state, 36w EL84 push-pull, 18w 6L6GC push-pull, 10w EL84 push-pull, 3.5w 2A3 SET, and now 300B SET. All have been various shades of good to great, but the winner by several lengths... 300B! To my ears, in my room, with my ancillaries, this is the tube. Only 8 watts but it’s more than enough to fully energize my challenging 650+ sq/ft space while giving me everything I want in timbre, tonal richness, layering, and other SET beauties. Dynamics are superb. Bass is visceral. All the technical audiophile stuff there, plus the emotional engagement with the artistry of the musicians that I found lacking just a bit with other tubes and topologies (except the 2A3, but it simply did not have enough power). This is where I’ll stay. It is some of the best sound I’ve had, which I did not expect from a $6K speaker, let alone one made by Klipsch! Live and learn.

Thanks to all, but especially @jayrossi13 and @dbarger , whose posts about their success with 300B amps and these speakers nudged me down this road.

I picked up a used Luxman MQ-300, an unusually good incarnation. But I think most well-designed SETs using this tube would be suited to the Cornwalls. I’d been skeptical that 8 watts would be adequate but it’s just right; and the rich midrange textures of the 300B are ideal for the Cornwall. These speakers can do nuance and delicacy as well as they do dynamics, and that’s a wonderful combo--right up SET ally. One of the things I like most about SET amps is they way they release the music to you rather than push it at you. I think the Cornwalls tend to push a bit, themselves, so amps that mitigate that tendency work best, at least in my survey of various amps. I’ve never tried a single-ended pentode amp but I’d assume it would behave similarly to a SET and sound pretty great on these speakers, too.

I thought about both those amps, read a little about them. Personally, I don't think 2 watts is enough for the CW. I have a good 2A3 amp that puts out 3.5w or so. It sounds great at low volume but can't fill my space. Steve G thinks the CW4/Decware is a great combo, though. You might, too.

Ozzy, that's a single-ended amp?

Yes, thanks Don. I was puzzling over this myself.

As Don had indicated, you need to ensure the VCap ODAM bodies don't touch anything conductive as they are conducive too.  I started by applying high grade silicone tape (electricians use this to cover high amperage lines).  However, I got a bit nervous about anything touching so I tore it off and started over by wrapping each and every capacitor;  peace of mind.

@jbhiller , many thanks for the details on your mods. Between your experiences and Don Sachs's, I'm getting closer to trying them myself.

So what exactly did you end up wrapping the ODAMs with? And how did you glue them down?

Thanks. I appreciate the info.

Are others also swapping in other speakers occasionally?

For sure. My primary speakers for the past decade have been PMC Ib2i on customer Sound Anchors, modded with Furutech binding posts. I drive them with a couple of different high-watt Class A solid state amps, a couple of preamps, a few different phono stages. I bought the CW4 as a low-watt alternative (although they sound pretty good with high-watt Class A, too) so I can use SETs and other little amps.

Both CWs and PMCs are on Herbie’s Giant Gliders so I can easily slide either one into a nearby closet, plop in a different amp, and listen to a vastly different approach to sound with no falloff in enjoyment. Takes all of 5 minutes. I love the flexibility.

Uh, it's all in there. Why not sort through it yourself? You'll learn something.