I currently have an all digital setup, streaming and stored digital files and ripped CD’s on my Innuos Zen mkIII via Chord Qutest to a PrimaLuna EVO 400i. I have been contemplating adding analog to my system, like a Clearaudio concept table. I am NOT hear to debate which one is better, so please don’t turn it into that, I understand the differences. How many of you are digital only? If you listen to digital as well, please tell me why. Is it because of sonic qualities or just the nostalgic reasons of spinning vinyl. I just don’t know if I want a turntable because it would be new gear to play with or if I think it has sonic qualities that I am missing with digital. I would have to buy new vinyl as I really only have a few of my albums from when I was teenager in the 80’s. Maybe I should just put the money towards upgrading digital components, even though I love my Qutest/Zen combo, I could move up in their line?? Am I missing something truly special in the audio world if I’m all digital? Thanks for your thoughts
I have one friend who only plays CDs for the last 12 years but who owns 10,000 LPs. Another plays only his own 3,000 CDs through an EAC extracted thumb drive. Four other friends are like me with a mix of LPs and CDs. None of us stream. We are all over 55 years old. One
acquaintance is vinyl only with 10,000 LPs. I also have 7,000 78s to go with my 28,500 LPs and 7,000 CDs. Another acquaintance is also LP only and is the owner of Better Records.
I'm also digital only.. I'd suggest adding an Mscaler to your Qutest.. Or go to a Hugo TT2 I have a Qutest and Mscaler.. Big improvement with Mscaler. I'm saving up my pennies for Hugo TT2 in a couple of months. I did Mscaler first because it's a bit less $$ and I'll sell Qutest to help pay for TT2.. I think at that point I'll be good.
I have been all digital for over 20 years. The reason: my laziness > the nice warmth of analog. Since my initial switch to CD's the servers had made this that much more attractive. I currently use a Melco (via ethernet, UPnP) into a dCS Bartok. I'm very happy with it - for now.
Kind of amazed and pleased at the positive response to digital. I‘m now 95% digital, hi-res. (A stroke a couple of years ago made this a
necessity.) having many of my albums also in high res I
really don't hear a difference in a/b testing, possibly in higher end systems may not be true. But thought this group would more analog and digital, though maybe is.
Innous Zen Mk3 (Roon core), Schiit Yggdrasil, Pass Labs
INT-25, Klipsch Forte III,
Schiit Mani, Rega P3, also Schiit Vali2+, Grado Gs3000s
My turntable is in the basement with a few hundred albums. Same thing with my cassette deck and cassettes. Though I love the sound of analog playback, I don’t have physical space for redundant playback systems. the back of my mind, I intend to transfer the analog music to a hard drive. But as digital quality and convenience improve, I have less need to do so.
I'm still playing CDs and SACD discs because I have a couple thousand and my Ayre does a great job with them.
I supplement that with a Lumin streamer and Quboz.
Went all digital in 1988 started with Sony CDP707esd player, Perreaux 2150 amplifier, Infinity KS9 Speakers, and Audio Alchemy DTi Pro DAC. Now I still use Sony CDP707esd, Aragon 8008BB amp, Martin Logan Theos Speakers, Schiit Bifrost 2 DAC, and Mac Book Pro,
i remember i listened to a podcast recently where the guys (professional gear reviewers) were talking about how entry level turntables used to be better quality sound than entry level dacs and how that's no longer the case. their view was that in order to get top performance, clearly better than digital out of a turntable setup you need to spend $5k or something. perfectly valid opinion - these guys have probably forgotten about more equipment than i'll ever see - but i personally don't think that's true. there are a lot of younger people who've invested in a turntable setup to complement their spotify etc and clearly enjoy it - that's why there's so many new records now! whether it sounds "better" or "worse" is the listener's business, but i am personally an advocate for trying it out for oneself and then deciding.
and a lot of people on this thread have already done exactly this, and decided to go digital. does a vinyl lover know more than them? are they more "connected" to the music? i doubt it. in my opinion the delivery system will never be more important than the music itself. people figure out what works best for them. it's all good. all i'm saying is it's not a big deal to give records a shot - you may love it. and if you don't, you'll know for sure.
@stuartk, You wrote {You hear noise. Others of us don’t. Perhaps it has something to do with differences in individual physiological structures and/or auditory processing capacities?}
All sensory data is filtered through the brain. In sound, the filtering process is
known as “psychoacoustics”. This process allows a participant in a conversation taking place in a noisy environment—ie: a busy restaurant—to filter everything but their own conversation out of their perceptions. The same is true of our perceptions of the audible clicks and pops that SOMETIMES plague vinyl recordings.
The vast majority of clicks and pops are caused by tiny airborne foreign particles that can settle into record grooves during their exposure to contaminated air. Part of an effective vinyl playback ritual is compulsive attention to the cleanliness of your record collection. Good record hygiene also extends the service lives of both record collections and phono styli.
I use a $499 Pro-Ject discwashing/wet vacuum system; and my vinyl collection is virtually free of audible clicks and pops during playback.
Some serious audiophiles find this ritual is not worth their time. But for me, the improvement in soundstage imagery and the intensity of my emotional responses to music played back from vinyl is more than worth the temporal and monetary costs of admission to the transcendent world of analogue.
Here’s to great music, regardless of your choice of playback technologies!
So funny anyone who’s been around knows what sounds good. No one technology has the market cornered. But seems everyone has their own personal bias. Why should anyone listen? Audiophiles can’t even agree on what good sound is. It’s all conjecture. Then there is the high end. That’s all over the place too. Oh well we all know good sound when we hear it. It’s just a matter of what we chose and how much to invest to make it happen. However it manages to happen. Good listening all.
digital can sound superb. depending on your music tastes, it may be your only option for some things! and despite what the self appointed vinyl police might say, imho there are also tons of vinyl reissues sourced from digital that sound great. it isn't always such a cut-and-dry thing. i personally would not hang my hat on one type of source being inherently superior to another - just too many exceptions, too many variables.
that said i do love vinyl for a whole bunch of reasons and one is that for me it often sounds more "alive" when compared to a digital file of the exact same material. that is my experience. and if the OP wants to try it out for themselves, it's not as cost-prohibitive to get up and running as some would have you believe - so why not give it a shot? just my .02c. happy listening
"In between all that however is this.... noise. How do you all handle it? Is there a meditation or something? Hypnosis? What is the secret?"
Don't think there's any "secret".
You hear noise. Others of us don't.
Perhaps it has something to do with differences in individual physiological structures and/or auditory processing capacities?
If you don't enjoy digital, don't listen to it!
If you prefer vanilla ice cream to chocolate ice cream, enjoy your preference. Asserting vanilla is inherently superior isn't likely to convert those who prefer chocolate, though.
I don’t think I’ll ever be digital only but I sold my turntable years ago (kept records) and my only current analog source is my MD102 tuner
I was apprehensive about steaming and experimented with FLAC playback and finally bit the bullet and signed up for Tidal first then a few months later I ditched Tidal in favor of Qobuz and I’m glad I did. Been streaming for 2 years and I use it more than any other medium right now ,even after putting my CDs in my Vault I find myself streaming the hi Rez content of disc I own.
It is generally accepted that if sound quality and not convenience is your top priority, a well chosen analog rig will achieve higher sound quality at almost any price. This includes rigs in the $100K+ categories. While both analog and digital are both satisfying on my system: $34K analog vs $45 K digital, my analog rig sounds better.
with caveat that my system is "mid fi" by many audiophile standards, you can put together a very nice sounding analog rig for a couple thousand, and far far less if you buy pre-owned. whether it meets your sound quality standards is something only you can answer, but in terms of "getting your feet wet" with something decent, imho the gear investment is not as crazy as many make it out to be. buying records to play will be the bigger expense. i know people who primarily stream day to day, but still buy their favorites on vinyl - to me this seems like the wise way to do it
Again, somebody doesn't know what they are talking about in regards to RTR. RTR has a 3-3/4 speed not 3.5. BTW: I've owned a few 10" RTR 15ips decks and RTR sounds great at 15ips, ok at 7.5, and terrible at 3-3/4 and 1-7/8. Too hard to get tapes and too expensive to join the tape clubs. Sold my nice TT setup and all vinyl over a year ago and haven't regretted it
All digital here. Got my modded out R2R dac, good streaming rates, and a carefully kitted room. No need to change. And I’ve heard vinyl, grew up on vinyl. Not really worth it for me, and I’m not alone. Those who insist we're deficient because of this prove something else entirely.
+1 here. Streaming only. Spotify via Google Chromecast Audio connect over optical toslink to a motu avb ultralite then onto a integrated tube amp with bookshelves + sub. As modest as these specs are it sounds amazing (to me). Near ~ mid-field listening. Some day I plan to add a turntable but not in a hurry. I occasionally buy LPs for some of my favorite bands and have to go to a friend's house to listen. Always a good time. I enjoy sending tunes from my phone and have no interest in ditching Spotify. Maybe when it goes hires I'll consider a better streamer but it would have to support Spotify Connect.
I was digital only- for the last couple weeks my bearing was being polished. I tried, really tried. But it is just.... digital. Now with the table back, ahhh, once again all is well.
In fairness I must admit, it is real nice being able to just push a button, skip tracks, play with volume, and not have to get up at the end. Those things really are nice. I could In between all that however is this.... noise. How do you all handle it? Is there a meditation or something? Hypnosis? What is the secret?
Absolutely a convenience issue for me in using digital sources. DACs are quite good now, whether they're using NOS tech, SS or tube schemes or more advanced oversampling. With attention to the rest of my system in amplification and speaker choices, I get wonderful, detailed and non fatiguing sound even with my 73 year old ears with less fussing around and nearly unlimited music choices.
It has been interesting to watch how our notion of 2-channel system composition has changed over the last few decades. FM tuners have given way to lossless streamers (eg., for TIDAL and Quboz). The outboard phono stage has, in many systems, been replaced by an external DAC. The analog preamp and poweramp are still relevant in high-performance systems, but it will be interesting to see if active speakers will become more popular among audiophiles over the next decade. They are already widely accepted in recording studios and pro-audio, which tends to lead consumer audio by a decade or two. :)
Don't know, maybe it is just a typo, or something, but vladtheimpala is fricken hilarious. Can't think of another one even nearly as good. Well done, sir!
I converted over to digital beginning in 2016. I still have my +/- 400 meticulously maintained LPs from the 70s and 80s, but I sold my beloved Technics SL1800 MkII turntable several years ago. I don't think I will ever buy another one. My current system is relatively humble and minimalist; everything virtually concealed except for the integrated amp, with the obvious exception of the speakers and subwoofers, the latter which are down-firing and dressed in custom slipcovers because featureless black boxes are boring to look at. Gone are the days of stacks of separates and spinning platters. There are about 5000 tracks on the NAS plus the streaming function of the player, a hell of a lot more music inventory and resources than I ever imagined I might some day have on hand back in the day.
Bluesound Node2 Synology Diskstation NAD C368 DAC amplifier Martin Logan Motion 40i towers on custom plinths Martin Logan Dynamo 1100X self-powered
subwoofers (2) w/ Anthem room correction 246 sq' listening room
I think if you have a vinyl collection in good condition that you enjoy, keep it. If you don't own any vinyl or a turntable, it is probably less expensive to get something very good that can come close to or even meet the vinyl sound, depending on the recording, CD (or preferably SACD) manufactured quality or actual resolution of the streams.
Having been in college during prime collecting and music exploring years before CD players were created, naturally I have vinyl. When they stopped making it in the 90's almost completely, I had to get a CD player (very reluctantly), which was quieter from ticks and pops, but lacked the depth and quality sound of vinyl. Disconnected it about 15 years ago when vinyl production picked up. Now I am getting my favorite CDs on vinyl, so the record companies win again.
I hear with some streaming and SACDs, digital has really improved a lot, but my tastes haven't changed much, and my favorite artists have largely stopped creating anything new I like, or unfortunately kicked the bucket, so it's 100% vinyl (at home) for me. Car is either Sirius or CDs. Changing channels is a pain, so I prefer CDs.
Completely digital on all my systems now, you need excellent (pleasing to you, audio signature) DAC and SACD player, putting tubes strategically into the mix of each system IMHO is the clincher. Let’s not forget the convience and shear volume of source material that digital offers. I was forced into digital with the loss of all my vinyl a couple decades ago and it took a long time to adjust because of early digital issues (we all know what those were), but my current system mix has me never looking back. That is not to say that vinyl doesn’t have it’s allure but then I do the math and a good not excellent TT all in with tone arm and cart is $7k and then add in the cost of all new vinyl. Money better spend elsewhere or on other audio improvements. Although I, perhaps, won’t close the door on reel to reel with master tapes somewhere down the line.
I'm probably 90% digital, streaming dominates, 2500 or so cd rips. I've found optimizing streaming solution to be most complex and interesting undertaking in my audio experience. Since streaming I've been exposed to so much more music, relative cost of music is amazingly low! Listening sessions greatest variation in genre, every session a steam of consciousness experience.
As for digital sound, only early, lets say prior to 2000 digital recording are generally poor. As a/d and d/a converters have progressively improved so has the sense of naturalness from digital recordings. As for inherent advantages of both formats, I find balance in favor of digital.
I do have well over 2500 vinyl so I've progressively improved my analog setup, just not to the extent I've improved digital. Steam of consciousness listening beats all the necessary involvements of proper playing of precious albums. All the up and down, twenty minutes or so max listening time and having to listen to particular lesser quality cuts bothers me. Still, I do occasionally enjoy all the involvement vinyl requires, the physical nature of this involvement is something streaming and cd rips can't replicate.
My front end is digital streaming, with an on board DAC, into an analog integrated. I'm done with records and CD's.
Like many I feel nostalgic about records and RtoR.
IMO if I added back a TT again the set up would be at least 30K-40K to be on par. To me records need the whole works, starting with a great phono preamp.
Needless to say for well less than 40K one can get everything.
I have heard both great and poor examples of each.
One thing that's a deal maker for me is being able to skip a track rapidly.
I am into both vinyl and digital. From a cost standpoint there is no debate that bang for the buck digital is the only way to go. I think that vinyl has a more natural, organic sound but the cost for the improvement ... not worth it. However many of us are in this hobby, like many hobbies not for the cost but for the sheer enjoyment. Just in my vinyl rig, turntable, cartridge, step-up transformer and phono section, I have over $25k and that is without buying any records.
I'm fully digital, with my sources being Amazon Music HD via Echo, and ripped CDs and Bandcamp FLAC downloads via laptop running MusicBee. I run digital because it's more convenient, it doesn't take up space, it's cheaper, most of the music I listen to isn't released on vinyl anyway and digital is an inherently more accurate medium. I sold all my vinyl and most of my CDs. I see no reason for physical media anymore. And someone starting vinyl now also incurs the additional steep cost of the turntable and cartridge, whereas my laptop was $149 and my Dot was $19.
If I were just starting this hobby I wouldn't invest in any physical media - records or CDs
Hard for me to ignore the benefits of streaming price performance, bang for the buck, convenience, mobility and the vast libraries of available hi-res content including new releases
It helps to have an audiophile grade network as your transport
Almost totally digital...Well my low fi. Ish Phillips 212 turntable died in the late 1990' s....got a minidisc ....that died in 2005.....sold most of my albums in 2015, and just this week got the last 30 of them ready to sell.I guess realizing that I will never have a turntable again, plus the fact that of those 30 impossible to replace records....all but 3 are on Spotify has just freed me of the burden of hanging on to my last albums.Now I have to let go ( or recreate) my 40 years of cassette mix tapes!!!!
OP: "Am I missing something truly special in the audio world if I’m all digital?" Yes.
One reason to have the ability to play the format vinyl is that there is albums that never got released in a digital format. So if you want to hear it you need a TT. So that is a "truly special" reason. But as understandable it is mostly true for "little bit older" releases. 🥳👍
Think of some obscure local bands that gave out albums that was gone later on when digitalization were on it's way. Also recordings of historical events when they were were performed (war, royal weddings, moon, comedy and others).
It is easier to know that version you are listening to and from were it come from. And you have the possibility of compare with an earlier release that is on vinyl.
You truly miss out to nerd 🤓 into and waste a lot of time and money. It is a rabbit hole or a nice hobby depending on how you see it and what you want out of it.
Like others here, I too have gone to an all digital source. Mojo server through which I mostly stream Tidal via Roon, but I also like the ability of having my CDs on a SS hard drive in the server so I can access music that is not included in Tidal's library.
I recently went digital sort of. You see, I only listen to 78s because “if you can’t see the groove the music cannot move.” The modern micro groove LP miniaturized the sound, shrunk it down to a tiny facsimile. Not for me. But now I’m going deaf. So I had to invest $20000 in these amazing digital ear horns from India, the Rama Dama Ding Dong Gupta Ones. They are amazing! Their internal miniaturized DAC uses 24 bit 192 kHz delta sigma gamma omega curry chips made exclusively by Hrundi Bakshi Industries of Calcutta. So though my source is analogue my listening is digital. Rudy Valee never sounded so good.😋
I am 100% streaming (Tidal and Qobuz via Roon). I think digital/streaming is even more complex than analog. Software, hardware, jitter control, Ethernet/WiFi, DACs, power supplies, all these can be optimized for best digital sound. I’m glad I found a server expert, Lucas Audio Labs, who takes care of all the details remotely. If I were putting it all together, I’d be lost.
One of three of my sources is analog (tt), but I enjoy all of them cause all of them have their pluses and minuses and no dogmatic approach to it cause for example some LP albums r sound much better than their digital version and some albums r better on CDs or streaming. So please let it be. All sources r good and we just need to optimise, clarify and detail the tract whatever it digital or analog.
Once all my favorite LPS were available on CD I jumped to that medium. Handed down the LPS to my younger brother.
Nowadays; I rip my CDs to FLAC and stream via Roon, supplemented by Qobuz . I store multiple copies of my digital collection and give away the source CDs.
My move to digital had nothing to do with SQ, I just couldn't take all the faffing around and ritualism that is analog.
Was all vinyl till 1990. Bought a CD player at that time. 2010 went all digital, though still have a TT. Just not using it. Use streaming to identify new music which I purchase on CD. Looking to purchase a streamer for my main system.
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