Please read up on this thread for great insight on how you can improve your streaming experience.
How many of you are digital only systems?
+1, @tomcy6 Chord Qutest is the weakest link. When digital done properly, it can be just as enjoyable as vinyl. For now enjoy your vinyl system :-) |
Digital, now mostly streaming, with an Ayre DX-5 DSD for Blue-rays. My Thorens TD 124 and Technics SL 1200 II are displayed as icons but rarely used. I also display a Gerrard RC 80 as a reminder of my introduction to HiFi in the 1950s. I still have all my vinyl, including boxed Capital FDS and Westminster Labs. |
Congratulations @jmphotography . I have a high end digital end which I listen to most of the time. But if I really feel like reaching for the very best sound I use my analog end. My Linn LP12 / Koetsu Rosewood Signature + SRA isolation platform + Audio Research Reference 3 phono stage is quite inspiring. It is still fun to crawl through the record store to find great gems. |
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Well since this thread was resurrected after a few months I thought I better provide an update. I did end up getting back into vinyl after 30 years. I bought a VPI Prime Scout/Ortofon Quintet Blue going into a Sutherland Insight LPS phono pre and I am SO GLAD I did. I find myself favoring vinyl so much more. Vinyl just has much more presence in the room to me, where digital sounds flatter. Vinyl in my system sounds fuller bodied where digital sounds thinner. For reference I am running an Innuos Zenith mkIII feeding a Chord Qutest. Most of my digital is FLAC and DSD files saved on the internal SSD. I also stream Qobuz. But right now, its all vinyl for me. |
I gots both. Fairly new P6, good phono stage and ~100 albums. Fairly mature Digital setup as well that I been working on for years. I rarely use the TT anymore. If I were in your shoes I would put my money in improved amplification,speakers or DAC and stay with the digital path. CDs are a bargain and vinyl has become a bad value. |
Its digital only for me. I grew up with vinyl but fully embraced CDs when I purchased my first player in 1987. The quality of vinyl records got so bad in the early 80’s that I was returning 50% of my purchases due to defects. Warpage, pops, clicks, scratches etc. I sold my remaining LPs decades ago and have never looked back. I understand the appeal of vinyl and am very glad it’s made a comeback. Vinyl was on the brink of extinction 20 plus years ago where CDs appear to be now. Like vinyl, I wouldn’t count CDs out just yet. DAC technology has taken huge leaps in the last few years and will continue to do so in the future. This is a boon for all digital formats including CDs. The SQ of my cd transport / standalone DAC would be unimaginable a few years ago for the price I paid. I also love streaming and the opportunity it gives me to explore new music along with its convenience. I still prefer CDs because it offers a physical medium in which I own the music. Streaming is like borrowing from a library and I have seen titles disappear without notice. The cost of vinyl, its high maintenance, and storage issues are what prohibits me from every wanting to return to it. CDs current fall from grace provides a huge buying opportunity and I love being able to scoop up used CD titles at bargain basement prices. Alas, this may not continue forever. |
I'm currently digital only. Tube DAC, and tube intigrated but when I finish the move and can properly set up the stereo rack with my 40 year old preamp. I just recently purchased a turntable and probably will occasionally spin some of the couple of hundred albums I've aquired over the last 50 years and some new ones but digital is so more convienent. My biggest issue now is the cats. The albums either have to be stored behind glass or some other scratch proof enclosure which I don't currently own.. |
I have 1000+ albums from my college days in the '70's in great condition. I had a good TT back then, and always cleaned each record with a Discwasher before playing it. But for me, digital is the way to go. I keep my albums for nostalgia and as wall decorations, but everything is digitized on a dedicated Roon server, and I stream with Qobuz. I just can't see going back to the old days of getting up every 20 minutes, picking an album, cleaning it, carefully putting the needle down, etc. My current TT is decidedly low end (Music Hall MM5), but I just can't see dropping the kind of $$ to get a really proper TT and cartridge, along with the inconvenience. Plus, with some of the albums that I have digitized, you hear the little pops and imperfections from the vinyl that are there no matter how good your TT rig is. So for me, digital is perfect every time and I don't miss playing albums, although I still hold them sometimes when listening to the album on Roon, LOL! |
I still own a turntable, phono preamp and 3,000 vinyl LP's. However, I only play digital. At this time in my life, I can't be bothered with the phono & LP ritual of finding the album cleaning it and re-filing it. Digital is too good and too convenient to be bothered with the antiquated process of playing a record. I find I listen to a lot more music because of digital....instant accessibility with outstanding sound is where it's at. ...and no, I'll never sell my records or the analog portion of my rig. |
1shultzee3 posts07-11-2021 3:16pmAll digital here. Using a Lumin U1 Mini into a Prima Luna Evo 400 pre and Evo 400 amp. Very pleased with the sound my system reproduces. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You need the PL tube DAC or PL tube player complete the system |
All digital for me too. I don’t want pops/clicks, adjustments, cleaning, and the other hassles that come with LPs. I lived with that for years and will never go back. Tidal Masters streaming and thousands of CDs ripped to a NAS all tied together with Roon is a much better experience for me than the hassles of analog. |
I’ve primarily been an analogue guy, but I recently got a Denefrips Ares 2 so I can bypass the DAC on my Bluesound Node 2. I think I’ve listened to maybe two records in the two months I’ve had my Denefrips. It sounds amazing streaming Hi Res or MQA. Vinyl is major time and money suck- researching and finding the precisely right pressings in VG+ condition or better, high prices for audiophile pressings, cleaning each record (think I hate that the most), worrying about my turntable’s VTA/cartridge life/etc. I’m a busy dad and don’t have much time to listen these days. I want to spend my free time listening to music, not preparing to listen to music. I think for a while at least, I’m a mostly digital listener. |
Thank you everyone for the detailed responses and discussions. For now I am staying with digital. In fact I just got a deal on a demo Innuos Zenith mkIII so I sold my Zen mkIII and moved up a notch and it was a nice jump which I am happy about. I am planning later this summer or fall to get together with a couple old friends who have TT and go and do some listening and refresh my memory with what is all involved. If its for me then maybe I will get an entry level table for a while and see if I stay with it, but now I am very happy with my all digital system. |
In the late 80's, early 90's I had a pretty high-end analog rig with a Goldmund Studio turntable with Goldmund T3F arm, Koetsu cartridge, AR SP10 preamp. In 92, I made a move across the country and had little kids, so decided to simplify my system. I hung on to my 2000 records for three house moves, but didn't have the storage space on the fourth move and my wife was getting tired of all the boxes. I ended up selling them for a small fraction of what they would get now (many MFSL and Sheffield discs, oh well). I missed the sound of the records, but even then I had a reasonable sounding digital rig (Spectral SDR-1000). These days, I'm absolutely loving the availability of an unlimited selection of music on Qobuz and Tidal, and do not miss the ritual of cleaning my records every time before playing them. And I'm thrilled with the sound quality I'm getting from my system. |
Since May 2021 I have reverted back to an all digital system. I ran analog gear as a teen back in the 1980's, sold it off by 1987 as I got into CD audio pretty early on (June 1984). Slowly built up my CD collection and often using Columbia House through the 1990's. I fell back DEEP into vinyl by 2003 and spent crazy money buying and selling and trying all sorts of vinyl gear from numerous turntables to phono cartridges, to phono preamps, to vinyl cleaning including vacuum machines etc. Of course I took advantage of thrift store shopping for used vinyl from about 2003 till 2016. I lost interest in adding to my vinyl collection when I reached close to 1000 LP's. I did start buying new LP's around 2011 till 2019. But the costs were just getting too high for my budget. I also around 2008 got back silly big time in buying cassette decks and even reel to reel tape decks, along with huge amounts of tapes, over 600 blank audio cassettes and a few dozen blank reel to reels. I was buying most deck on impulse off Ebay or at thrift stores and fiddled around with each for most till the novelty wore off and resold each deck. I had a couple of keepers but most just came and went with me just throwing more money away. It was like an addiction until between all the vinyl stuff and the tape stuff I realized I was crazy and kissing good money good bye. By 2019 I sold off all my remaining cassette decks and all the hundreds of tapes, all at a financial loss but good bye and good riddance. The 11 years of such with tapes was fun at times but depressing as well, too much for me and my absolute disregard for money being wasted on it all. By 2019 I after keeping my CD's in large CD binders for years and as such out of sight out of mind, this was one of the reasons why I got bigly into LP's as they were on shelves easy to pick out and use, the CD's never got played much except for in my car. I put my CD's back in jewel cases and on display. From such I began to actually play through my CD library and really began to enjoy the sound on my current A/V system. It became fun again and yes so easy to live with CD's as you just plop them in a CD player and hit play to listen without having to get up and flip sides over and to screw around with cleaning them. I began to notice that when playing a CD I was just listening to music, clean, powerful and no background noise. I would then put on LP's and no matter how good they sounded or clean they were I always knew I was listening to a vinyl record. It got annoying to me. I also began running A/B comparisons between my CD's an their LP twins in real time and EVERY time the CD outperformed the LP, especially the inner grooves. It was close at times and others it was NO CONTEST the CD sounded more lifelike. I also began a serious purge of my near 1000 LP's. Noting that I had hundreds bought for years that I had yet to listen too. I surmised that I listened to to maybe 40-50-60 LP's on a regular basis and a few dozen more only periodically. It was all just collecting albums and wasting shelf space. I quickly purged and or sold off near 800 LP's thinking I would live with about 200 that I really liked. But with all that has been going on globally with the never ending covid stuff and in my life along with realizing how much money I essentially threw away on analog gear, tape decks, tapes and LP's etc. The sight of my turntable setup began to really depress me. I had to rid myself of it all and that is what I did by May 2021. I recorded about 120-130 LP's onto CDR's for posterity, though I find it hard to listen to these as the recorded along clicks, pops, groove noise and inner groove distortion bothers me much now as I am so use to my commercially bought CD's again. But once done all my analog stuff was gone and this page in my life was turned. I'm not saying analog is bad or wrong or not to be enjoyed by others, but for me from 2003 until 2021 it was enough, enough money spent, time wasted on cleaning and shopping around on buying hundreds of LP's I never even played. I have about 300 CD's. I enjoy physical media and do not run streamers at home but listen to streaming music on my phone for personal use only. I'm a product of life of owning physical media (CD's, BluRays, DVD's and Video games for the Playstation) and I enjoy owning CD's and buying new CD's which are even when brand new a fraction of the cost of their vinyl LP counterparts. My A/V rig includes for CD and other disc playback my Oppo BDP 83 which sounds great to my ears, a Philips CD-101 which I bought new in 1984 and have found out over the years a family member had it in storage and gave it back to me and a Panasonic DVD Recorder I keep to once in a while off load programs on my PVR to DVD discs. I'm pleased with my set up now and I am now having some peace of mind after getting more or less over the money spent on my analog side for 18 years. That is my analog to digital story. :-) |
I am new to Digital as well. Have a PrimaLuna EVO-100 integrated, Bluesound Node 2i running through a Shiit Bifrost DAC using AudioQuest Cables. Burn CD’s to a Innuos Mini MK III and could not be happier with the sound. I live in a small town home so vinyl would be a space and storage pain. Because of bandwidth even with HD, the Innuos sounds better on good same recordings. Being able to select any of 60 million songs and play them anywhere with a phone signal or Wi Fi is wonderful. Streaming is really good, and not making me change a thing. I will never go back to vinyl again. With the same quality recording you would probably hear a difference but splitting hairs. My biggest issue is not what plays it but the quality, EQ of the original recordings to either format. I have heard terrible on both, outstanding on both. |
@tom2015…”but skipping from song to song” Funny you should say that, because the exact same thing happened to me. Streaming caused me to “channel surf” so to speak. So I took apart my streaming end about five or six years ago (Apple notebook). I was happier because I would listen to a whole CD. A couple years later I bought a streamer (Auralic Aries G2). The improvement in sound was profound. The improvement also slowed my desire to channel surf. The SQ was good enough to highlight some more subtle problems… which caused me to upgrade my streamer and then my desire to “channel surf” completely disappeared! The music became engaging… I no longer wanted to switch. I realize in retrospect that the desire to change from cut to cut is the desire to find something that is musically satisfying, just like if you do it on TV. You do it until you find something engaging. Now, my streaming is so engaging I frequently get caught up in music I normally not like because it sounds so good and musical. |
I can’t help it, but streaming always felt like fast food to me. Easy access and convenience are nice, but skipping from song to song, playing something half with already the next song in mind takes something away from the experience. I do enjoy it for background music or to search new albums, but there is, for me, some tranquility in choosing a record or a CD and listening to that album only without the constant temptation to push next. Sound quality is a different story. Depending on the equipment all mediums can sound very good. |
I went all digital eight years ago for one reason and one reason only...sound quality. My love of all music has made me a gear hobbyist with the goal of getting to the best quality sound reproduction, and experience (I listen to a lot of live recordings), that my wallet, research and (hopefully) intelligent decisions can get me to. My last move was three years ago, to a house because of my audio addiction, and I am quite positive I would not be enjoying the stellar sound quality level I am at without being fully digital. |
@yermajesty: I'm sorry-- I'm afraid I'm no help in that regard as I'm firmly wedded to the physical medium of CDs. Having to interact with yet another electronic screen holds little appeal for me. Plus, I'm old-fashioned (and old) -- I like being able to hold a CD case, read liner notes, etc. Sounds like you have a local dealer whom you trust and who knows your system. -- if he'll allow you to bring gear home to try out, I'd certainly start there. |
decided to move from a CDP to a separate DAC and transport and began demo'ing DACs, I was astonished by the differences.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I found out my cayin CD17 6922 tube player , very close to my Shanling 3000 6922 tube player and the Jadis DAC Entry model(Shanling as Transport) just a tad superior to the Shanling DAC . All 3 are well crafted and all 3 sound excellent. What did make a gain in the Jadis DAC are 4 new high teck JFET opamps, 4 duals. My Philips phono sounds only a miniscule superior to a tube DAC which has these JFET's in the opamp slots. IOW these new opamps have really made nice gains in tube DAC's/players. |
@yermajesty: "In my experience, digital did sound harsh . . . in the early days of CDs." Yeah; my first Sony CDP in the early 90's sounded terribly metallic and shrill. I switched to a Denon, which was definitely better but nothing like my current Moon transport + Aqua DAC combo. "And to me, vinyl has always sounded more natural than digital does." Well, OK. Each to his/her own. You're certainly not alone in this regard. Vinyl does indeed sound different to me than CD but on good systems, I have no preference. I hear nothing that impels me to seize upon vinyl as a "benchmark". Perhaps I simply haven'y yet heard a sufficiently costly vinyl system but I have friends with systems costing at least 50K and to my ears their vinyl systems are not superior to my 25K digital system. Others would no doubt reach a different conclusion. I'd agree that it's far easier to assemble a fatiguing-sounding digital system. When I decided to move from a CDP to a separate DAC and transport and began demo'ing DACs, I was astonished by the differences. Some were so resolving that to me, all sense of the "forest" was lost, due to the severe overaccentuation of focus upon the "trees". I could not imagine how anyone could possibly enjoy such an "unnatural" presentation. Nevertheless, I found it helpful in my selection process to hear DACs on both ends of the spectrum. This process led me to conclude that it's more important to know what one's preferences are as a listener, when going digital, as opposed to vinyl. And such knowledge can only come from experience, so perhaps it makes sense for beginners ought to start out with vinyl. |
I have system in my finished basement that is digital only. It consists of Promitheous TVC pre,April Music stello DA100 signature DAC,a Node 2,a Decware Z stage,a First Watt J2,driving a pair of Nola Boxer 2's. Sounds great to these ears. I can literally listen for hours without so much of a hint of fatigue. |
@stuartk. You wrote: {I wasn't thinking about clicks and pops but of what I often hear vinyl fans say: that vinyl sounds more "organic" and digital sounds "harsh"} In my experience, digital did sound harsh . . . in the early days of CDs. And to me, vinyl has always sounded more natural than digital does. But that has changed dramatically over the past two decades. I owned a REGA Planet 2000 that applied internal oversampling with IIRC Wolfson DACs. And that made a profound difference in my digital listening experience with the equipment I was using at the time--an Anthem tube preamp, an Anthem hybrid power amp, Red Rose bookshelf speakers, and a 15" Paradigm powered subwoofer. I also had a REGA Planer 3 turntable and Dynavector Ruby cartridge that were at the time, twenty years old. I took my vinyl setup to my local high-end dealer, Audio Alternative in Fort Collins, Colorado to have Rick Dupliseo align everything and replace the drive belt. However, I never broke out my modest vinyl collection to play it on that system. It unfortunately ended up staying with my ex; and I spent the years after we parted ways with a Marantz surround sound receiver and thirty-year-old Celestion SL 6 bookshelf speakers, primarily for movie playback. (I sort of lost interest in music after going solo). But last Christmas, I decided to spend some extra scratch that came available to me on a pair of Martin Logan virtual line-source EM-ESLs (ML's smallest electrostats) and an ML 8" Dynamo powered subwoofer--the sort of speaker technology I'd dreamtof owning for forty years. My only music sources were digital--a Sony UBP X1000ES SACD player and an Apple TV. Everything sounded wonderful until early February, when my receiver's power amp section began to fail. So I went back to Rick, looking for a Black Ice tube integrated. It turned out that he had just taken in an F35 on consignment; and I hauled that 60 pound behemoth home. The music sounded even better than before. Plus I had supplemental heating in my cold apartment. Two months later, the preamp section in my receiver crapped out. So I looked for a premium (by my standards) quality two-channel preamp with a comprehensive DAC section. I ended up choosing an Anthem STR pre, in large part because its built-in ARC system was a huge draw for me. Now everything sounded terrific. Plus, I had discovered the great folks at Crutchfield Electronics But at the time I bought my Back Ice, Rick asked me if I'd like to hear a Linn LP12 with an Akito 3B tonearm. He set it up with a Hana Sl MC cartridge that sounded nice. So I took it home. But before I left his shop, he played a severely warped vinyl album on a maxed out LP12, with Lyre's top dog MC cartridge through a $200,000+ system. The soundstage presentation was as close to live as I've ever heard; and the cartridge's extreme frequency response combined the with system's otherworldly imaging evoked long-dormant emotions I'd never fully processed. Perhaps naively, thinking that I could obtain similar results at home, I tinkered a bit with platter mats, VTA and my preamp's ARC utility. But I couldn't get anywhere close to what I'd heard at the store. So I went back to talk cartridges with Rick; and he told me that the Linn Krystal MC would probably generate some of the same excitement I'd experienced listening to his maxed out system. And when he demoed the cartridge, I had to agree. When I got the new setup home, I discovered that my electronics and speakers approximated the sound of his $300,000 system; but without the sheer volume capability his system possessed. And that's fine because I live in a small apartment where high-volume listening could get me quickly evicted. At about the same time, I subscribed to Amazon's curated HD digital music streaming service, and listened to that through my preamp's DAC. And much to my surprise, it didn't miss the SQ of my Linn analogue setup by very much. Nevertheless, the SQ improvement with the Linn is more than worth the cost of admission to me (~$6K). But as I'm sitting at my desk, I'm listening to Max Richter via Amazon HD digital; and enjoying it every bit as much as I would my Linn system at any area of my apartment but my listening room. Short story; I would be loathe to give up either playback technology in my system. But I do plan to further upgrade my turntable down the road as finances permit, if only for the sheer intensity of my emotional responses to analogue music playback. As I mentioned earlier, I also enjoy all the rituals that go with responsible vinyl playback. �And some of my vinyl collection is irreplaceable in any format. That's my story; and I'm sticking to it . . . that is until the SQ of streaming digital technology transcends what I get from my analogue system. That might happen next year; and it might not happen for another ten. But I have every reason to keep an open mind; and I'll be ready to make the move to nearly all digital when that time comes (if I'm not dead yet). Again. Here's to great music, regardless of which technology is used to play it back! (Yeah. This long post wore me out too:-) ps. Here's a gimme from an older than dirt audiophile: You won't notice the improved SQ of a sound system that's better than you're used to nearly as much as you'll notice the diminished SQ of a system that's worse than what you're used to. I shudder to think of ever having to listen to my first generation Hitachi CD player again. |
@yermajesty: "@stuartk, You wrote {You hear noise. Others of us don’t. All sensory data is filtered through the brain. In sound, the filtering process is known as “psychoacoustics”. This process allows a participant in a conversation taking place in a noisy environment—ie: a busy restaurant—to filter everything but their own conversation out of their perceptions. The same is true of our perceptions of the audible clicks and pops that SOMETIMES plague vinyl recordings". As for your comment: "Here’s to great music, regardless of your choice of playback technologies!" I can't argue with that !!!!!!!!! |
stuartk403 posts06-29-2021 6:10pm... these, in particular:: " i personally would not hang my hat on one type of source being inherently superior to another - just too many exceptions, too many variables" ... especially given that the ears/brains taking in what the source is putting out vary in terms of how they perceive sound and what they judge to be pleasurable/"good"... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes I agree, I have a completed classical cd collection of 300-400 cds, and have no interest in streaming. I am tube cd player for life, Just took advantage of the newest opamps, JFET's , 4 duals for my Jadis DAC, made a very nice sonic gain. Recently I added a Philips 777 phone, bought from my tech geek at a good price, so I added some classiacl LP's of my fav works, Ohh about 50+ LP.s You can find them cheap, = under $20 each, on Ebay and a few off amazon. Some are extremely rare, piad $20++. I prefer cd, as it contains 50-80 minutes of music, with no flipping the cd over. Yeah I'm a bit lazy. Expensive phono's may offer superior sonics vs my DAC/high tech opamps, but at what cost? And nuances, how much greater? I'd rather put my audio budget into new high tech speakers. The new wide band, now my system will be 100% complete. I am trying to sell a tube cd player, my tech geek said it will be a very hard sell at my asking price, He was correct, I am lowering the price now to *rock bottom*. Tube cd players are dinasuars. Everyone is going streaming. Back in the day my Cayin was the bomb. Amazing how The latest thing, shoves the old thing down to the dust, lol I am old school, I needa physical source record in my hand, LP, cd. Streaming is just too impresonal. Besides are there steaming services which have every one of my cds/LP's in their file?? Most likely not. Pettersson sym 9, Kamu/Norropking,/Philips LP. I also have a ripped cd. This recording , among a few others, is not found on any stream service New is not always better. |
... these, in particular:: " i personally would not hang my hat on one type of source being inherently superior to another - just too many exceptions, too many variables" ... especially given that the ears/brains taking in what the source is putting out vary in terms of how they perceive sound and what they judge to be pleasurable/"good"... |
Me too: My system, with all digital sources, has a P15 power regenerator, DirectStream CD/SACD disk transport & DirectStream DAC from PS Audio, a Roon Nucleus Plus streaming server controlled from my iPad & Android smart phone, a Dell Windows10 Pro machine for iTunes, McIntosh C2500 tube pre-amp, McIntosh MC452 solid state power amp, driving a pair of Focal Sopra No2 speakers, and a pair of JL Audio F113V2 sub woofers, Sennheiser HD800 headphones, all connections with Wireworld cabling. |