How cam Morrow Audio keep offering 45%-65% discounts for trade-ups?

They are junk cables.   Common business model. Take a $10 item, price it at $100, mark it down to $50.

 

Mods, feel free to delete this if my opinion violates any rule. 

 

Jerry

You say that you have done several trade-ups. Have you noticed improved performance each time?

@carlsbad2 , So which ones did you try ? 

My friend is happy with his morrow cables.

@buellrider97 I bought an amp that came with one.  I looked on the website and realized it was far from heavy enough.  I think I still have it in my junk drawer.

I'm pretty sure the reason that amp was for sale was the power cord was limiting it's performance.  Put a moderately priced but upgraded power cord on it and amp came to life.

Jerry

Jerry , thanks for the input. I run low power tubes and live in the mid Fi world. I prefer Shunyata power cords. At my price point and in my system I’ve been pleased with Morrow interconnects. To the OP, I think Mikes marketing philosophy is uncommon. I don’t participate in the trade up program, I just buy during 50 percent off sales. Mike has been very kind to me, often comping me for substantial burn in time.  Cheers, Mike B. 

It is only clever marketing...

His basic cables , i own the M3, are very good and distinctly better than my own others basic one i all discarded even if they were at lowest price... I stop there with the M3 interconnect between my dac and amplifier ... I dont know if the money invested in higher cable as the M6 and over is a real valued upgrade compared to more pressing factors as vibrations controls, electrical noise floor and acoustic control...I doubt it... We must choose where to put the money... there is no relation at all between a cable change upgrade and a better acoustic room..

The marketing of Morrow is really clever... It is not difficult to figure out why ?

How do you make your customer satisfied with a basic good cable but after that how do you push him toward a race for the better without making him feel too much the burden of paying all the costs alone ? Simple... Other cables sellers had much to learn from Morrow marketing practice... But his cables are good...

Are they the best one ? Nobody knows save someone foolish enough or rich enough to buy them all and being so able to compare all offerings... And even if he exist, cables are synergetically related for their working and impressions to a specfic system and specfic conditions to this add hearing subjective history of the owner ...

😊

Boutique audio cables are extremely high-profit items. How else could the manufacturers  afford those endless back-cover ads in the glossy magazines?

Cables are like vaccines very profitable business... I will not give my opinion about the scam in all this.. 😊

(My post will self delete in 48 eight hours...)

This reminds me of way back in the early 70's I was a Radio Shack Store Manager. At age 18!

Anyway, we had a popular speaker called the MC-1000. It cost the store $12. We sold alot of them at the price of $50. We would occasionally have a midnight sales event and the speakers then sold for $25, The store still made a 100% profit!

Looks like today the same is still true.

ozzy

 

I just spent 20 minutes creating a post to answer questions @Roxy & Buellrider posed and it was deleted before posting.

 I'll try again when I have more time.

 

@mahgister 

 

"I will not give my opinion about the scam in all this.. 😊"

 

😆

If you insist cables are less damaging scam...😊

(this post if not censored will be deleted in the next 48 hours)

"I will not give my opinion about the scam in all this.. 😊"

 

I own Morrow cables and like them very much.  Buying during their 65% off annual event around Christmas is the only number that means anything to me.  So, is their MA7 Interconnect Pair - 144 SSI, XLR, 2 meter worth $750?  For me the answer is yes.  Are they worth $2098?  It's a moot point as I only have to pay $750.

Now there trade up program is another story.  They are offering 80% of the original purchase price against the full retail price of a new item.  When you do the math, you find it's usually cheaper just to buy the new item at 65% off.  Sell the other cables privately.  Same as buying a new car.  You are always better off selling your current vehicle privately and dealing cash on the new one.  

Finally, calling Morrow Cables "junk", as noted above, is just plain silly.  Don't want to own them yourself, then don't buy them.  No need to disparage all the others out there that have bought them and find them a good product.  

The ICs are a value at the max discount. I've never tried their power chords or speaker cables, they look expensive. The math has never allowed me to do the "upgrade" thing. Used ones sell briskly for me.

Their understated advantageous quality is their form factor.

So...

@ Roxy and @ buellrider.

 

 I first bought a pair of MA1 IC's a few yrs ago.

I bought another  pr which eventually  used for trade-up to MA2.

These were used with my Nak TA-3 until I decided I missed having tubes.

Then I need another pr so bought another MA2 which I now don't use bc I have MA3 x2 for my Jolida to Sony DVP cx995 and a Cambridge Audio Dac Magic 100 which I switch to Topping E30 on occasion.

My Topping D3 is connected with Neutrik cables to my Yaqin MC 84 and some Amazon cables from the DVP.

 There's not a lot of difference between the quality of sound from either my Vandersteen with Canare spkr bi-wire or B&W spkrs with MA SP4 when I switch back and forth between amps and vise versa.

( I will say the SP4 sound better than the SP3 I traded up.)

They sound best together because what one pr lacks, the other somewhat compensates.

The spkrs are all essentially rubbish anyway. I picked up the B&W DM 630 for $60, and the Vandy's for $300 a few yrs back.

 Not damaged, but not great. 

 As I was typing my reply this AM, the sun shone through the MA3's.

Not that I didn't already know this, but the wiring is about 14 gauge inside a mesh sleeve that's about 1/2" wide and flat.

I've always been curious about the construction

 If anyone is interested in reproduction quality, buy a set and listen. You can always return them.

 The advertising is slick, so once you plug 'em in, you might not be satisfied and opt for a more expensive version.

 I never had them burned in and had them shipped right after they were constructed.

 Maybe if I had, I'd be more impressed. I'm quite sure I don't have enough hrs on them bc I go weeks without listening at times.

 One more thing. I'm deaf in my rt ear and 50% loss in my left with a very limited range of frequency, but I can hear quality. 

 

 

 

 

My experience says @carlsbad2 is spot on! I am not going to start listing the issues with build quality but I will say they induced horrible noise in my system.

I would be happy to give them to anyone willing to cover shipping (that is more than they are worth). I have one digital and I think 3 pair of interconnects. They will arrive just exactly as I received them UGLY!

Uh, the same way PS Audio does it- when you're the manufacturer and you control (and keep) all the margin and you set the "MSRP" at whatever number you can then there's ton's of built in margin to play with on trades/discounts etc. 

I do have a couple of good friends that own audio shops and cable mark ups are just anything else, 30-40 basis points, higher discounts on dealers that can buy larger amounts at ordering time. The reality is they have to keep the doors open to run a business, there are holding cost, marketing, setup, advice(take that with a grain of salt).  I buy both new and preowned as I am a gear guy so the Morrow cable owner does this for income let him do as he wants and buy or don’t buy but forums aren’t the place to knock capitalism as those of us that have jobs work for people that fund our paychecks so rightly deserve to make a profit.

I have Morrow MA4 balanced interconnects and was very happy with the improved sound in my system.  My comparisons are limited so I won't make any claims that they are the best cable ever.  I picked them up the last Black Friday sale which put the level of cable that I was interested in at a price point that I was willing to spend.

I did actually reach out to Mike via email to "challenge" his marketing strategy because I feel like it devalues the product.  The constant sales essentially set the value at the lower price.  Paying anything above 30-50% off is just a lack of patience.  Mike responded that a lot of customers like to buy things on sale so that's the strategy they have chosen to take.

I found it very interesting that my balanced MA4 cables cost exactly the same as the unbalanced, but have double the internal wires so clearly the material cost is insignificant to the price point.  I guess getting balanced cables on Black Friday sales is the best deal!

Because they use a dual overhead cam.

Morrow Audio cables are excellent cables FOR THE PRICE, but remember the MA4 interconnects (Mike Morrow suggests starting with the MA4s) are only $155 a pair with the sale. Will these compete with $500 or $1,000 cables? Most definitely not. But they do compete successfully with comparably priced high quality cables from DHLabs, Zavfino, Lavricables, and Supra......which are all great cables for their reasonable price; which I also own.

I own MA-4 interconnects (RCA and XLR), and their SP3 speaker cables, and they perform very well in my "mid fi" system. Calling Morrow cables crap is just plain ridiculous, and have you actually tested them? Eventually I will replace them as I upgrade the rest of my system for sure.

Cfarrow, you completely missed the thrust of my question.

 Are the trade-ins resold to cover the large discounts?

Or maybe you were referring to others who are bagging on Morrow?

I have owned several sets of ma3 and a dig2 and bought them on a BF Sale at 55% off and felt they sounded very good until I purchased the Aliexpress Chinese Nordost cables. Immediately sold the Morrows on ebay as they were nowhere near as revealing. As for the trade up I felt the math made no sense to trade in. Much better to wait and buy at 55-65% off and sell the old ones on your own. Were easy to resell them. Morrow is offering a convenience service and is happy $ when you upgrade. Personally not a fan of their fake sale marketing strategy. They are training us to only buy at 55-65% off and compressing the sales in limited windows which should impact/slow production/delivery times.

Pretty easy ,most of their raw material is from China 10-1 markup in many cables 

that’s how they can do that and stil make money , and their connectors 

inexpensive gold coated brass , unless you want to pay a premium .

@audioman58 

You make a good point. So many of these so-called "premium brands of cables and speakers are using these beautiful jewelry-like RCA's and binding posts which are heavy brass instead of low mass copper. It looks so pretty but it's not built for good sound.

I have never bought from Morrow, but have always wondered about their quality and their sale after sale after sale.

roxy54 good observations , myself having owned a Audio store and 40+ years in Audio I have seen it all . I tell people even regarding fuses 

and especially AC outlets get rid of these Huge bottlenecks resistance= noise Petiod , look up metals conductivity index , Silver, Copper ,Phosphur Bronze , 

67 is the highest , then Brass way down around 22  3 x more resistance, =3x less conductivity easy math , that $2 wall outlet most homes have it 💩 crap , get rid of it , look at the $99 Pangea gold over High purity Copper ,and grips like a vise verywell made give it 75-100 hour breakin  a clear step up in clarity

and these junk brass zinc $2  outlets from home depot corrode inside and rust 

these are less then 15 on the conductivity scale , we have literally tested its conductivity, the best power cords ,and line conditioners mean very little when you have a bottleneck from the start, even in your equipment I don’t get it. Use aFurutech Gold or rhodium over copper IEC , instead these $4 pieces of junk even in  $$ brands I remove what I can , even all my speakers WBT connectors 

and change what’s possible on my equipment , most people don’t even give it a thought ,after my tech friends pointed this out 

I went with awg 10 copper with dedicated20 amp circuits 4 wire ,one common ground the other a insulated Isolated ground with its own buzz bar grounded separately , back grounds now are dead silent.

Cables are a very high profit item. The markup is incredible so any "discount" applied still makes them, and every other manufacturer, a lot of money. 

 

 

Good responses.

So back to my question.

Who thinks Morrow is re-selling the trade-ups as new?

Morrow believe in break-in so much , when i bought one few years ago they asked for a bit more money to break them.. If my memory is correxct on this... That impact me a bit because of all discussion about break in ...

I dont think they sold  then the un- breaked new cable as the old already breaked-in  cable... Anyway i remember feeling the change in the break in process..

And if i remember they gave a life warrenty for their cable ...

As i said the cable are better than the few cheaper one  i tried..

If they are crooks there exist better crook than Morrow.. 😊

 

Who thinks Morrow is re-selling the trade-ups as new?

No one pays "full price" for Morrow.  It's just part of their marketing.  When I had a couple of their interconnects (MA5?) and speaker cables, I never paid more than 50% of full price, and was probably less than that.  They simply inflate the full sale price and offer a discount,  as that is more appealing to the buyer.  It's nothing more than that.  I doubt they are selling trade ups as new though, Morrow doesn't strike me as disingenious.  

I’m pleased with the product. I got both speaker and some ICs. After I ordered them I realized that the speaker cables were going to be too short. So I gave them a call and they added the extra I needed for free as they hadn’t started my cables yet. It wasn’t that much longer than I’d ordered but still rather kind of them. 

Are they world beaters? Maybe, maybe not. But they are much better than the ancient Monster stuff I had before. More detailed and much better control. 

If how they pitch the product works for them, more power to them IMHO. 

 

Happy listening. 

@mrskeptic +1

Mike

 No way they sell trade ups as new.  They have a used site and seem like an up and up retailer with the inflated MSRP game. Downside selling used as new is too high risk for their business…

Where is that? The page I found said it moved, but no link.

@mpathic8 

Click on products menu then clearance menu .  It doesn’t appear  they get many trade ups with the number of listings they have posted.  Who knows?

https://www.morrowaudio.com/pages/cable-clearance

@ Audioman

 

Wouldn't the wiring coming into the house be a factor? You're stuck with that.

Seems buying a line conditioner would be better and the specialized outlets wouldn't be necessary.

 $99 a pop for an outlet isn't cheap,

 

This is my choice….well made at a reasonable cost if you can get by the knock off brand name use. I wish they wouldn’t use real brand names. We know they aren’t real brands.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805235421157.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.3.623b45d9oEWKrZ&algo_pvid=d4af39e3-f5b3-4c22-a29a-586be04a9f36&algo_exp_id=d4af39e3-f5b3-4c22-a29a-586be04a9f36-1&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21USD%2130.00%2127.0%21%21%2130.00%21%21%40212249cb16904777906887732d076a%2112000032999110772%21sea%21US%213252811505&curPageLogUid=64lR8TfgR9fd

I can’t say for certain or to what degree of improvement because I was making other changes to my system at the same time.  I just wanted  a better quality outlet receptacle vs the cheap flimsy plastic stock 15A outlet receptacle.  More concerned about safety and the stock plug had a loose plug connection that was corrected.  The limited selection sold at home stores were inferior so I ordered these instead.

Thanks very much for the suggestion... I will try it when i could...

 My best to you...

can’t say for certain or to what degree of improvement because I was making other changes to my system at the same time.  I just wanted  a better quality outlet receptacle vs the cheap flimsy plastic stock 15A outlet receptacle.  More concerned about safety and the stock plug had a loose plug connection that was corrected.  The limited selection sold at home stores were inferior so I ordered these instead.

Seems those receptacles are a lot less expensive than your first pricing.

$27 is manageable, but still exorbitant.

I bought a power cord for the Jolida from Amazon a few weeks ago.

The stock one wasn't nearly as robust and this one has a 15A current draw, if necessary.

 I might give the receptacle a try. Couldn't be worse.

I already run a Tripp-Lite Isobar surge suppresser with filter.

 

Regardless, I'll give MA the benefit of the doubt. I just wish I'd spent less, but it's so easy to get caught up in the hype.

Same thing happened to me with car-modding 15 yrs ago.

I have some Morrow cables and they sound fine, but it still mystifies me that they’re described as "solid core" when their cables (using seemingly the same wire for IC and speaker cables) run from 8 to 288 ("SSI" somehow coated with something) tiny wires for ICs, and 64 to 2,304 (!) tiny "solid core" wires for speaker cable. I talked to Mike Morrow on the phone once and he said each tiny wire is coated to keep it from interacting with the other "solid core" wires in the cable. Uh huh. A 2,304 strand "solid core" cable...go figure.

@wolf_garcia 

I’m no kind of expert, but as far as I’m concerned that is stranded wire.

Nothing mysterious going on here...

Morrow could offer the exact "discount" without the taking the trade in and STILL make the same profit.

Purely a marketing thing.

At the retailer end-I've seen a dealer list, cable markup is HUGE.

End of the day, they have bunch of used junk(but still functional) which can then be resold for extra profit.

Win for the manufacturer.