Help! Spakers damaged during shipping?Paid insurance (with proof)being told not Insured?

Contact audiogon 

This is the current insurance page.  I suggest Wayback machine or similar to see what it said at the time of your shipping:

https://support.audiogon.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052139112-Shipping-Insurance

Original shipping containers designed for shipping, packaging obtained from the original manufacturer, is the required minimum - for insurance on packages to be in effect.

Otherwise... fraud would be the norm. Where people ship broken old unwanted gear, at low prices and low values and try to make a high value insurance claim. This would be a daily occurrence and some would even venture as far as trying to make a career out of it.

Thus, original shipping containers only. Otherwise, no insurance claim is valid. It is in the fine print for all insurance or claims disputes regarding all major shipping companies or organizations. Unless otherwise stated directly in the insurance and shipping agreements.

This is why the pros, the big and constant long term shippers with large amount of items to be shipped, make the buyer pay the shipping. Where the items are collected on the makers dock, by the buyer’s shipping company. And,a s soon as the product is touched by the shipper, on the makers dock, any damage or issues are the fault and the concern of the buyer, and has nothing to do with the maker.

I’ve seen it happen, right in front of me. Where a full skid of product was destroyed by the shipping company, right on the docks. This is called ’FOB’ Shipping (from our base), a type of ’buyer collects item’ shipping. Where the buyer sends their shipper to our organization and ’takes it from there’.

IF the shipper is the seller, then it is the responsibility of the seller, until it is dropped off and signed for, by the buyer or final destination point. Until then, all claims, negotiations and the like - sit solely on the seller’s shoulders.

IF the buyer signed for it and accepted the package, even the financial party can do nothing about it, and a small claims court can back that up. Meaning, if an item is shipped, and the buyer accepts the package and then opens it up to find a can of smashed orifices, it is their problem. They’ll have a hard time, though, as the claim control lies solely with the seller.

What has to happen, is that one has to slow down the delivery driver and open the package in front of them and then reject it if it is broken or smashed. So, it is best to do this at the shipping depot by having the parcel held for pick up. and then open it up in front of the staff there. and, with such witnesses, either take or reject the parcel based on that. but there is risk involved. As well, the driver never wants to stick around for being the witness to the small domestic disaster that is a badly packaged audio item.

Many times we can have the financial middle group take the money back if the shipping goes wrong and leave the seller with the whole mess. But this does not work legally, even if the financial concern (PayPal)(and CC companies) take the money back. And they do so, all the time. Break the law, that is..and the contract, which involves the shipping and arrival, and acceptance of the item --is part of that equation.

The reality is that this is not the contract (taking money back on accepted parcels), and it can be proven in small claims court. look into it. What I mean is that if the buyer accepts the unopened parcel, then it is all on the buyer and this can be clarified in small claims court as the true reality. the small claims court just has to be made aware of this legal aspect of the dispute. As it is word against word.. and the reality, the base points of factual contracts ...at that point... will ’rule the situation’ ... and that --is the contract and the delivery methods.

So, in effect, PayPal and taking money back on a buyer’s word...is in fact illegal and against the given contract. Where it does not matter if the packaging was not adequate, as that is not part of the legal aspects of the money and who controls the money in the fulfillment of the contract.

but wait!! There’s more....

Original shipping containers designed for shipping, packaging obtained from the original manufacturer, is the required minimum - for insurance on packages to be in effect.

Probably made 7 or 8 claims on insurance when shipping in the last 20+ years and never once was the claim rejected because it was not the original manufacturer packaging. I did have to show proof of adequate packaging an in no case was there internal damage but no external damage. 

This is called ’FOB’ Shipping (from our base), 

FOB = Free on Board.  It must also include technically FOB origin or destination to indicate where the transfer point is in responsibility. Also technically, FOB Origin (or shipping point) responsibility does not transfer till it leaves the seller dock, but there can be confusion and it comes down to contractual terms.

IF the shipper is the seller, then it is the responsibility of the seller, until it is dropped off and signed for, by the buyer or final destination point. Until then, all claims, negotiations and the like - sit solely on the seller’s shoulders.

This is where shipping insurance contracts get you on the weasel word. If the receiver signs for it, that is taken as acceptance.  They must, at the time of arrival, indicate the damage.  I have written into our sales contract, and bolded it, that if the customer signs for a product and does not indicate exterior damage at the time of arrival, they are obsolving us of responsibility.  AS A SELLER YOU MUST COMMUNICATE THIS TO YOUR END CUSTOMER!

So, in effect, PayPal and taking money back on a buyer’s word...is in fact illegal and against the given contract. Where it does not matter if the packaging was not adequate, as that is not part of the legal aspects of the money and who controls the money in the fulfillment of the contract. 

If you are not a lawyer, then it is best NOT to provide this level of what is essentially legal advice and claim it as absolute fact.  IF you use Paypal, and this must be agreed by both parties, you are often engaging in a separate and what is potentially superseding contract.  I have not reviewed all the Paypal details of late, but some of them used to initiate what is in effect an escrow and would make Paypal the arbitrator.  Please don't take my (or Teo's) word for it. Do you own research.

Man, Teo makes me never want to ship an item again, lol.   Best to sell locally and in person if possible (in the police station parking lot?  And don’t give the buyer any personal info i.e. phone number?).  
I learned a lot about shipping from experiences I had last summer.  Im actually surprised that most of my transactions have gone smoothly.

+1. audio2design
Is there more?
Not waiting

I learned the hard way that Fed Ex doesn’t honor insurance claims for audio gear. It doesn’t matter how much proof you furnish or how many of their hoops you jump through. I would be surprised if UPS is not the same. 

Insurance companies due one thing well,deny damage claims. Thats what they do, deny deny hoping you go away.I actually had a keyboard lost in shipment and UPS denied the insurance claim ...the only way I've found to get anywhere is to get the states attorney general involved, typically when they hear mention of them things start moving in the right direction. 

I've never had a shipping problem other than, the time it took to get somewhere, or it was delivered to the wrong location.

I have never had any equipment hurt by shipping provided they were packed, labeled, and handled correctly. For 25 years I shipped regularly to and from the EU. EXPENSIVE electrical equipment. Usually something to do with remote control, with or without cables.  Sometimes computer software/hardware, for structural sub surface underpinning or foundational support. Expensive and very sensitive.  Normally it's one of the issues I outlined. Packaging being number one..

If the product moves inside its container, and the any portion of the product TOUCHES the "inside" of the outside (second) box, it was packed WRONG, or dropped from a greater height than approved for that shipping container. ALL of the remotes had location and upright tracking.. No lying allowed. You toss that box it will show when where and WHO, did it...

That goes BOTH ways. the OUTSIDE cannot touch the outside of the inner box, anywhere in the packing.. audio2design position I think.. outside visual damage is a NO NO... "We are gonna look further", and possible rejection. JUST WAIT. Delivery person. That's me.. PEANUTS are rejected at the door... NO EXCEPTIONS...

If any where along the way that happens the PACKING will show the failure, and that handling was an issue.. I've never had an unresolved issue,  with shipping.. I pack as if it is coming BACK to me...Not going to you..:-)

OP your problem is TIME.. it's not on your side MONTHS later, wow that is a long time. I wish you well..

The legal mumbo jumbo isn't worth a hoot is someone isn't gonna argue it for you in front of a JUDGE. OR YOU.. then you still get to collect...WHOLE different story...

Pack it right, prove it was packed right, and get your money.. Pic go a LONG ways, too.. Lots of pre, and during packing...PICTIRES...

Regards

Insurance companies do one other thing , invest in politicians to leave them alone.  I've only had one claim,, for non delivery in the 90's long before porch pirates.  It seemed to take forever for UPS to come around. Looking back I lucked out, they actually paid.

They should have denied shipping it ..or not charge you for the insurance...if they didn't like the packaging.   I'd see a lawyer.

Call your favorite lawyer and have him send a letter to the shipping / insurance company letting them know that they will be responsible for all legal fees, court fees and the actual loss.  Have the layer include an estimate that should be at least 10 times the value of the loss claim.  

Your receipt shows how much insurance was paid for ,
if not on there they messed up . And no way to prove it otherwise 
that’s why you verify before leaving .

Yes if you payed through Audiogon contact Tammy.
ifyoupaid through PayPal , then call to file your claim and then take a picture and show them you paid for insurance . Who did you ship it from ? The seller usually arranges all shipping .I never 
heard of shipping through Audiogon ,their rates are inflated.
for sure if payment went throughAudiogon then  paypal 
forsure contact PayPal via telephone number, claims via email too much lost in translation ,during the week only ,on the weekend
theyhave contacts who are not well versed via off shore assistance. I know through experience.

Insurance is a scam.  Period.

"Insurance is a scam. Period."   

Bingo!

I am not sure but why would you buy insurance twice once from audiogon and pay again for the shippers insurance i would say you have your hands full but i would start with audiogon.

Here is part of what the Audiogon Insurance webpage says:

• Loss, damage, or non-arrival of any package or its contents which (a) is addressed, wrapped, or packed insufficiently, incorrectly, or contrary to carrier's packaging requirements; or (b) bears a descriptive label or packaging which tends to describe nature of contents EXCEPT if shipped via Parcel Post and required by Postal Laws and Regulations.

Do you think (b) is reasonable?  I just bought an NAD M33 from a reputable online store.  Of course I still have all the original packing. But the original outside box packing it came in says NAD M33 plain as day.  So if I were to sell it to another Audiogoner (I don't plan to, but if) then to comply with the rule above I would have to triple box it - and then of course it would not be original packing.  Do you still think (b) is reasonable?

And by the way: good luck getting the delivery person to wait while you open the box.

How could Audiogon deny the claim because it wasn't manufacturer packaging if they didn't see it? Was it the original packaging? I would write to Tammy for an explanation, but I would think that you had already done that after 7 months.

Some here say that if you sign for the package then you are accepting it as-is. But seldom have I had to sign for anything, not even the Martin Logan speakers I bought last year — was told to expect the packages on a date and then when I checked they were sitting in front of my garage.  All other packages were just left by my front door.

Only once was a product delivered damaged.  It was a large flat panel TV.  When I opened the box, the screen was shattered.  I could see a scrap mark across the front of the box where it looked like something had fallen into it.  I tried to call the seller but had difficulty getting through.  Fortunately, I paid through PayPal and when I called them they said they would refund the money to my credit card.  I asked them what I should do with the TV and they said keep it or throw it away.  I called TV repair shops to donate it, but they said they could only use parts they order new and not parts off a damaged, though new, set.  So, out in the trash it went.

P.S. I recently bought a used tuner from a vender in CA (I live in Ohio).  The vender said they didn’t have the original box or packing material but would pack it securely.  The tuner arrived in a shipping box but was not double boxed.  In place of the molded styrofoam, they wrapped the tuner in a few layers of bubble wrap.  Fortunately it arrived safely. 

buyer beware here in the UK!  
 A few months back, I sold a large pair of elecrostatics speakers on ebay for £3,500 UKP
The buyer was in a different part of the UK, so we needed to arrange delivery rather than collection.
I used Hermes which was a very reasonable price until it came to the insurance which was over £200 UKP on top of delivery but the shock to me was this didn't cover damage, only loss!
Hermes won't insure  any electronic items for damage!
They were in the double skinned original packaging and fortunately, all went well and the buyer is a now happy user of my Martin Logans and I am a happy user of new ATC SCM40As ..... (which I collected from the dealer!)

I'm not an expert but I have some legal experience. The info you received from previous replies here is valid and correct. Some folks do send broken and misrepresented items. Insurers do need to protect themselves from that. However, in my experience and common sense, if a company charges you for a service, you should have it. If there are issues that could invalidate that agreement the insurer should make that clear. Also, I often receive packages that are left at my door without a chance for me to inspect before I accept. Just be honest and follow up, I hope you get a break. 

Back a year or so ago I had purchased a used pre that was shipped from the mid-country to the east coast insured for the full price(4500). Buyer purchased new double box and packing materials from manufacturer. Package arrived and did not show any immediate signs of being mishandled. Upon unboxing and putting into the system 'something' was amiss, there was a noticeable noise coming from the unit. After a couple of emails back and forth we started a claim and I took the unit into a authorised repair shop. Turned out several of the output capacitors had the leads broken off from a impact, so it was determined that the box had been dropped on its side. FedEx paid the claim which was less than the full estimate, but would have probably covered the repair if I had not elected to replace all four of the output caps with new rather than just replacing the two that were unusable. It ended us costing me a bit, but in my estimation I got a good deal on the unit and it was worth the investment.

All in all I felt it went pretty well with the shipper

I am quickly seeing this thread has no point.  We have been presented with a very thin explanation of what happened. If this is been ongoing for 7-8 months, I feel there would have been more information provided, i.e. like why the insurance claim was rejected.  Through work, life, etc. I have had insurance claims rejected.  In every case, I asked why, and was provided it.  I think once I was not, and I wrote the person and copied their legal counsel and the BBB who they were listed with.

If the op does not provide more detail, i.e. why the insurance was rejected, perhaps some details of communication, etc. then there is no point in having this discussion. It just becomes a whine fest.

I know in my case, the seller was given a claim representative that maintained contact with me and the seller letting me know what they needed as documentation. It was a drawn out procedure, but they maintained contact throughout. All you (I) needed to do was give them what they wanted, ie. picks of all sides of outside box and picks of inside box and packaging. Probably 3-4 months until they paid the claim.

I bought big and heavy floor standings for my daughter from audiolab a couple years ago. They used some small, unknown shipping company. Upon delivery the OEM boxes was so weak and damaged, wholes and ruptures was all over it. When I saw the boxes on my porch for the first time I thought this is total negligence, but when I opened it the speakers inside were crispy clean, untouched and in perfect condition. Huge relive. I think the problem is bigger than we think. It careless unprofessional people performing work at job spots newer should be filled with such people. That is funny at some Starbucks locations those kind of people couldn’t even brew a coffee. 

Wow, well this has been an awful lot of information, thank you all.

I have read many of these responses, Let me give you all of the details like audio2design suggested then perhaps I can use the wealth of knowledge and experience here from you all.

So this was only the 2nd item I have sold online or on audiogon.com
The first one had no problems because it was not damaged.

I took the speakers to a Fedex storefront and had paid them to package them for 2 reasons: 

1.) I had read  people saying that when the self packaged they were not allowed to be insured.

2,)  these people do this professionally every day for living so they must be better at packing than me.

 So I leave the FedEx store after paying them to package the items and go back to my regular life. About five days later I get a message from the buyer saying unfortunately I got some bad news and he sends me a plethora of all these pictures where they were clearly damaged still think they been dropped from about six or 8 feet in the air is and crushed tweeters broken off the tops of both of them,  damage to the cabinets but they had been drug on the ground and more.  So I was not very concerned because  I remember I got an insurance is because of the sheer value of the items and I thought after all that's what insurance is for. (little did I know still be here).  So first I file a claim with FedEx  in its entirety including all pictures documents everything that is asked of me.  When I get a response to the claim they tell me that sorry this package is not insured but I knew that it was, so I go looking through my paperwork to find my proof of insurance.  now starting to wonder how can I have proof that I have the insurance but this company that's for larger more organized than me doesn't have proof of this.  Well turns out it's my mistake,  when I purchased the printing label and insurance on audiogon.com  that insurance is through audiogon and NOT through FedEx. (and though not their responsibility even though they caused the damage, Fedex actually refunded to me the entire shipping cost aprox. $400 as well as offering to ship the speakers back to me for free).

 So  I then contact audiogion and get a response from Tammy.   I consult with her about what I need to do as far as with the buyer and whatnot in October I read on their website that I need to refund the buyer  and then I continued to see the claim through,  she says is correct so I refunded buyer his money. She is very helpful and responsive and a breath of fresh air after all the arguing back and forth I  have been going through with FedEx until ultimately I realized  I was accusing the wrong party smh.  She tells me no problem I'll get this taken care of for you  can you go and see me all the information pictures and everything. At this point had it all combined into one 82 page PDF document so I said that right over to her.  she said these things get resolved pretty quickly and submitted the claim for me and then sent me the claim number told me to check in a few days  if they need anything else  they would ask me. well, I end up checking the claim  to find out it has been denied the reason is: 'This item was not insured'  which by this point absolutely know it was and  that it was them who was insured through.  So I take my audiogram receipt that lists the insurance amount individually as a line item and create a collage sort of thing that also has where that amount was debited from my bank account with some arrows pointing showing
- how much I paid for the insurance
- when and  I paid for the insurance
-the money for the insurance coming out of my bank account

 I send this to Tammy she forwards it to them and they still say no it was not insured.  So Tammy tells me she's going to look into  this and will get it taken care of not to worry.  That was relieving to hear as I still thought  this all will eventually turn out correctly because I know I'm not in the wrong.  I continue to follow up with Tammy for updates on this which she only becomes less responsive,  to the point that after three or four unanswered emails over the period of four or five weeks I get a little upset and asked her more bluntly why are you not responding to emails I feel like something shady is now going on,  but she tells me it's because she doesn't have an update yet.  She then asked to verify my name or address like this is finally going to be finished they're going to approve the claim and send me a check. 




The last I heard form Her was on12/08/2020 when she responded with this:

"The reason I have not responded back to you is I don’t know anything yet.The claim is still pending. I know it is ridiculous. Let me inquire about it again today."

Tammy
Audiogon

**The status of the claim has never changed, nor was it 'pending' at this point.

 I have sent a follow-up email on 12/12/20, 1 another on 2/18/20 and another on 01/06/2021  but have just had radio silence from her.

** I contacted shipengine.com directly and this is what I received from them

"Hey Allen, 

Thanks for this information.

I was able to find this label and the request that created it in our logs. In the request, insurance was not declared or included.

I would recommend reaching back out to Audiogon for further compensation or information for why their system showed the package as insured when it was not.

I've attached the request body that was used for this package that you can supply to Audiogon as proof that they did not include insurance in their request to create this label.

Kind regards,

********** ***********
API Support Specialist

When I received this response from shipengine.com  it made me think back to one of the very first conversations I had with Tammy in which she told me she would be the one to handle the claim process instead of me.  

July 22nd 2020

 "I agree Allen, We just switched to another insurance company so I may not be able to open the claim until tomorrow.
I'll email you once it has been done."

then on August 20th from Tammy

"Allen,,

Appreciate the email. I’m afraid to tell you that things have been delayed. A supplemental claim had to be opened. It may be a few more weeks before this is settled.I hate this for you, but know that you will get your money eventually. i will try to get more details sometime next week."

Fast forward to today and no reimbursement and getting the ghost treatment from audiogon.

So it appears to me the fault lies with audiogon, from what I receiveed from shipengine.com as well as audiogon's 'guilt' which makes sense on why they have stopped responding to me and maybe they have known this the entire time which is why they're just kind of been dragging it out giving me the runaround becoming slower and slower to respond hoping I will just go away.  

I'm hoping with the plethora of information and knowledge that was provided from the original responses perhaps you will be able to help point me in the right direction.

Regards,

Allen

Did you ship the speakers in their original boxes?  If not, were they shipped in a double box container with Styrofoam to withstand shipping.  I would certainly start there first.  If they weren't shipped in the proper packaging, I would cover them if I were an insurance company.  If you did all of these things, I would certainly hire a good attorney.  

You have cleared up all of the questions that I have. It seems pretty simple. Audiogon accepted payment for insurance, but did not purchase the insurance from their provider. They will not be able to collect for coverage that they never purchased. Hence, Audiogon needs to accept responsibility for the loss, and cut you a check for the full amount of the loss. 

Thank you a_mulder.  I will take you at your word which at this point seems fair. The problem seems to be as roxy54 described. Sounds like someone screwed up, IT implementation or something, but either way, it is not your fault and your claim should be paid to the limit of the insurance at the time.  You may need to elevate this issue. You can probably find other contacts on LinkedIn. I don't know how much you lost, but there is typically limits on the value of your claim. Their current limit appears to be $5,000, but it could have been different at the time of your shipping. Hopefully that is in your paper work.  Unless serious money, hiring a lawyer is rarely a good ROI. Small claims is more effective but limited based on jurisdiction.

If the corporation that owns and operates Audiogon has ethical standards of business, they will accept responsibility for what appears to be an honest mistake and pay up. I worked for a number of high end jewelry stores for many years, and this kind of unfortunate and unexpected expense, due to accidental or careless liability was part of the cost of doing business honestly and ethically.

Well - this puts me off Audiogon for sure. 

I shipped a pair of B&W 804D2 speakers across the country through UPS Store. I paid them to box the speakers as I no longer had originals. I made them aware of packaging correctly and specifically told them about the diamond tweeter and how easily it is to break. Insured accordingly and when one tweeter did get broken, insurance paid the $1,300 replacement cost.You could try filing a claim in small claims court. Not sure now but at one time you could file at no cost without an attorney and they are obligated to respond to argue your claim.

Shipping speakers is how members get negative feedback, they have to be well packaged, best to have original packing material and prey they arrive in good condition. Best to do a local sale if possible.
I shipped a tube preamp and the packing was bullet proof. This was on a Fedex truck that rolled over in transit, heavy items crushing the box. When it arrived the packing material was expelled from the box and the preamp (still in the box) had a bent frame. The buyer reported it still worked perfectly. I told the buyer to take pictures. In the end I let him keep the preamp and the claim money.

We're the speakers in the original factory boxes with all the original packaging?

"Insurance is a scam. Period."

it is not, you just need to know the rules.

I've had several claims paid by UPS. In each case I did not have the original packaging. However, I took it to a UPS store and paid to have them package it. If they pack it they can't deny your claim for improper packing. If you do not pay for them to pack it, you will probably get denied. 

They also told me to keep the items, which were functioning and just had cosmetic damage. 

FOB means freight on board which means wherever the FOB point is, any freight beyond that is paid by the recipient.  Some shippers prepay freight which means the FOB point is the ultimate material destination.  Some shippers ship only FOB plant (factory) which means freight from the plant to the final destination becomes the buyer’s responsibility.  
FedEx absolutely destroyed a set of boxed speakers we insured for $3000.   Destroyed.  They refused to pay the claim and only after threatening to set up a couple websites:  howfedexscrewedus.com and fedexdoesntpayinsuredclaims.com did they finally pay the claim.  Tried a couple years back to insure some expensive SF speakers and ship with FedEx and they said, in no uncertain terms, they would not pay any more than, I think it was $1000 or some ridiculous amount, no matter how much insurance we paid for.  I asked them then what’s the point of shipping expensive items or insuring them with FedEx - they had no answer.  I delivered the speakers myself on a road trip.  Threats can work otherwise I have no perfect answer.  Never had an issue with the USPS or UPS, so I don’t know how they deal with damage claims.  

FOB = Free On Board


The way to deal with FEDEX or any shipper is to tell them in advance exactly what you plan to ship, and ask specifically if their insurance will cover it for the value you intend to unsure it for.

The time to verify coverage is not after the loss it is before the loss.

If they won't insure it, call an insurance broker or check the net. There are other options.


FEDEX damage rate is much lower than UPS or USPS.

Bump, this needs to be remedied. 

If I read this thread correctly, it looks like Audiogon took an order and accepted payment for the shipping insurance and then failed to actually place coverage with their carrier. 

As a commercial insurance broker for over 40 years (and have actually served as an expert witness in litigation a couple of times), this would be considered an "error or omission" on Audiogon's part -- they accepted money and then failed to provide the provide the product or service.  This assumes all of the facts presented are in line with what actually happened. 

This makes them responsible for the loss whether they carry an E&O policy or not.  The sad reality is that for situations like this, the cost of lawyers would likely dwarf the cost of the damaged product.  It is one of those case where you'd really like to see Audiogon step up and do the right thing, but at this point that doesn't seem very promising.

I would like to take this opportunity to make a plea to speaker owners. PLEASE KEEP THE ORIGINAL SHIPPING CARTONS! Yes, I'm yelling. I have wanted to purchase various speakers over the last couple years only to read in the ad, "Local pick-up only due to not having the original shipping cartons" These are on the East Coast or West Coast or Florida and of course I'm in the upper Midwest! I missed some great deals because of this. I always, always, always keep the original packaging for items I buy. I know they can be a pain to store but it's the best way to insure their safe arrival if you ever have to send them out. I had a guy tell me that it would be up to me to pay for packaging if I wanted them shipped. Well, I didn't throw away the original cartons! I always double box items and take them directly to Fedex. I have never had an issue shipping an item.

While several have pointed out the desirability of keeping the original shipping boxes for the product, that doesn't appear to be the basis of the denied claim in this particular case. It looks like Audiogon accepted responsibility for obtaining cargo insurance and then failed to bind coverage with their insurance carrier.

I will let you all know how this gets handled by higher ups at audjogon. I hope they make this right but don't have much faith at this point. Wish me luck.

I am very sorry you have to go through this.  This is why I will not ship speakers or any heavy items.  Period.  If there is an out-of-town buyer, I will work with them on defraying the travel costs to some extent.  I would rather take less for my item and have finality after it is sold. 

I have had destroyed speakers shipped by UPS. With insurance, and got such a run around I ate the repairs. Fed Ex is better. Just to inform, my last job was at an Amazon warehouse. When we unloaded trailer trucks with what they called liquid cargo it was a trailer that had a conveyor belt wheeled into the trailer and they packed the packages from the back to the front, loose and on top of one another. Also shoved jiffy packs, the little bubble envelopes with soft internal products in amongst the cracks of the different sized boxes.
When we unloaded the cargo, we would do the opposite and fling the boxes onto a conveyor belt as fast as we could. I mean fling. Then we would grab the top cartons and pull, they were very high up, and it would all come crashing to the floor of the trailer, then we would proceed to fling them up on the conveyor. Talk about rough, and damage LOL. There was always liquid leaking out all over the place, and when initially packed, there was no time to put heavy items on the bottom. Stuff just went as fast as it could with 60lb packages on top of almost empty oversized cartons that got crushed. I would never purchase a fragile item through Amazon after seeing what goes on. I imagine that UPS and FedEx also go like a bat out of hell, and unless you pack like it can be dropped from a helicopter at 100s of feet high, then you better get as much insurance as you can afford. Sorry for all the stuff that got damaged by me, but I was working with a gun to my head as far as hurry hurry hurry. It was all about numbers, speed, and careful thoughtful handling came last. But I would not let them get away with not honoring the insurance. Take them to court.